LIAR GAME

yeah...I am really not liking nao. I also dont like the other group either since you literally got betrayed by Fukunaga so the group decides to trust her once again? so you got someone debt free vs someone who betrayed you before who do you like more? You can literally just get nao in your group and Fukunaga can never win since it would be 1v9 and you got a 3 way triangle for votes. idk I get its a show got to get the drama in, but nao really is what drags the show down for me.

I still dont agree why would you hate someone who won the game vs someone who literally betrayed you/made you lose the game. It would be like a race where you hate the winner of the race over someone who fucked you over/slashed your tires making you lose. even with what you said why would you still pick the same person who betrayed you or didnt want to win over just staying in your groups without those 2. Why even trust the words Fukanaga says? Idk again just a fault of the show imo where they need to make drama so you cant have the easy solution/making people stick to what they literally previously said so Fukunaga needs to be a antagonist again. edit: also that "may have betrayed them" is doing a lot of heavy lifting. Also imagine the group just waits one round to test Fukunaga see if she is telling the truth what happens than? idk just to much imo that weighs in on "characters have to be dumb for the drama to happen."

I still dont agree why would you hate someone who won the game vs someone who literally betrayed you/made you lose the game. Think about it this way. Nao slipped out of the game with an extra 140m in hand (to pay off the 100m debt), and then is freely coming back with the clear incentive to make money off them again. Because why else would someone 40m in the black go back into the Liar Game? Also imagine the group just waits one round to test Fukunaga see if she is telling the truth what happens than? Then the gamestate changes, and the possible exchange wouldn't be valid anymore. Plus, then you have to take into account then the price for betrayal might change.

Think about it this way. Nao slipped out of the game with an extra 140m in hand (to pay off the 100m debt), and then is freely coming back with the clear incentive to make money off them again. Because why else would someone 40m in the black go back into the Liar Game? so you trust the person who betrayed you? who you literally stated you want to get revenge on? The guy who also said he wanted to beat the shit out of her because of it? No. Even with what you said you would just not go with either Nao or Fukunaga. Then the gamestate changes, and the possible exchange wouldn't be valid anymore. Plus, then you have to take into account then the price for betrayal might change. you would also see that once again Fukunaga is lying. Also Fukunaga shouldnt even be in the running to make demands when she is the one everyone besides Nao wants to get revenge on. So you would use this as a base to even go back to trusting her in the first place. look its just the show having to make drama for Nao/akiyama I dont think it makes sense at all.

Even with what you said you would just not go with either Nao or Fukunaga. The problem is that there are no other options. If Nao/Fukunaga are teaming up, in order to cause one of them to lose you have to break that agreement. Under their agreement, they both have 50, which makes it literally impossible for either of them to lose. you would also see that once again Fukunaga is lying. Except she wasn't. They literally had an agreement to vote for each other.

All this still requires the group to trust someone who betrayed them before who they literally want revenge on to be with them. "oh you and Nao are in a agreement how do we know thats not a lie?" It just again goes to who would you hate more? The person who won a previous liars game/wants more money over someone who literally betrayed you/caused the situation you are in in the first place? I think you are still avoiding that part. The show/manga just couldnt do the easy way of "oh just throw Nao in the group its 1v9 no way Fukunaga can win" so they had to set up a situation for drama. edit: The 2nd game was a bit more interesting, but for this game it just seems to much on setting up the situation to overcome.

It just again goes to who would you hate more? The person who won a previous liars game/wants more money over someone who literally betrayed you/caused the situation you are in in the first place? I think you are still avoiding that part. There's a particular reason Fukunaga spun the conversation in that direction. In the first discussion, it was about "who do you not want to go to the 3rd round", which by default included Fukunaga, and then added Nao to the pool. Then when Fukunaga approached them afterwards, she planted the idea of Nao using the 40m to force betrayal. So now, you have to consider that Nao a) made a ton of money off you, and b) now has significantly higher leverage to screw you over both in the current game and in any future games.

so you hate the person who won the game over the one who betrays you got it. You would rather advance with someone who has betrayed you before and you want revenge on over someone who "made a ton of money off you" when you can say that for literally everyone who played. Then when Fukunaga approached them afterwards, she planted the idea of Nao using the 40m to force betrayal. yeah Fukunaga would never do something like betrayal I would trust her words also me wanting revenge on her? That was so like 2 hours ago idc about that now lets get her in the team to supposedly save our own skins. now has significantly higher leverage to screw you over both in the current game and in any future games. yeah over Fukunaga who would betray you/profit off you/use you however she wants I totally get going with her over Nao who...made money because she won the previous round. we going in circles now though you are not convincing me and I am not convincing you. edit: oh and "made a ton of money off you" that would now also be able to be applied to Fukunaga if you let her win. You think people want to get someone knowing that them being betrayed is a profit for Fukunaga . Fukunaga would literally be profiting off all the people she once betrayed that is such a better angle than someone like Nao who just won the previous round I would take that any day what was I thinking.

That isnt even relevant or in the same stratosphere here do not understand the comparison at all. They hate people who do better than them at their own expense (in their mind). People hate billionaires because they don't think billionaires deserve to be billionaires. They feel billionaires stole people's money. Bernie Sanders literally said billionaires shouldn't exist. They feel entitled to billionaire's money. Nao came away winning money, other contestant's money. She is holding their money. At best, they feel no sympathy for her and won't give a shit that she loses. At worst, they hate her just as much as Fukunaga. ah and they all want revenge on Fukanaga so with that logic just pick Nao. Their priority is to win the game and not get further into debt. Revenge on Fukugana is secondary. If they can do both, great. If they have to work with Fukugana to win, then so be it.

They hate people who do better than them at their own expense (in their mind). People hate billionaires because they don't think billionaires deserve to be billionaires. They feel billionaires stole people's money. Bernie Sanders literally said billionaires shouldn't exist. The reason I dont like this analogy is because you can have more ethical reasons to say billionaires shouldnt exist. The monopolies the company would have to create to accumulate that much money or other reasons that again I am not familiar. Also feels completely offtopic this situation doesnt really apply to billionaires. Oh I forgot I guess "hate people who do better at their own expense" how does this not apply to Fukunaga again when that is her betraying all of them last game? "oh but she didnt win" Yeah that matters in betrayal that the betrayal was successful or not. When someone betrays me they better succeed if not its just a slap on the wrist lets work together again. She is holding their money. At best, they feel no sympathy for her and won't give a shit that she loses. At worst, they hate her just as much as Fukunaga. This is fundamentally the same spot I got into with the other guy on where I disagree. I agree with no sympathy for Nao/not giving a shit if she loses, but to hate her as much as Fukunaga who literally betrayed the whole group? No. Same analogy I used for the other guy. You hate the winner of a race more than someone who slashed your tires to make sure you lose. The person who won the race who you literally have zero history with besides being in the same race/being in liars game together you hate just as much as the person who fucked you over. Their priority is to win the game and not get further into debt. Revenge on Fukugana is secondary. If they can do both, great. If they have to work with Fukugana to win, then so be it. I went other this in the other thread with another guy but ill say it here too. "If they can do both, great" so that is literally working with Nao. The group instead chooses the person who got them into the situation they are in in the first place? Cmon. Yeah Fukugana made me go into debt, but ill choose her and not even talk to Nao because I can totally trust Fukugana this time. Yeah I am going to let Fukugana come out winning money, but thats ok since the other person won money last time they can go into debt this time idc about my revenge anymore. The "Nao came out winning money, other contestant's money, their money" logic would just wrap around to Fukunaga now being able to be profiting off her betrayal of you. Idk about other people, but I am not going to just trust/work with someone when they fucked me over literally the last game. The group is literally letting someone who betrayed them last game dictate what they are going to do again this time its just stupid.

The reason I dont like this analogy is because you can have more ethical reasons to say billionaires shouldnt exist. Those reasons are irrational like the feeling towards Nao. You just aren't aware that it's irrational because you're the one feeling it. Just think about it, how is it rational that you put a cap on how much a person is allowed to succeed? "If they can do both, great" so that is literally working with Nao. Fukugana's plan is to make Nao a target equal to himself, which worked. That's why they aren't working with Nao. If you disagree, that just goes back to the argument about their feeling towards Nao. but I am not going to just trust/work with someone when they fucked me over literally the last game. Not everyone thinks like you. And they don't need to trust Fukugana. The votes are secured through M tickets.

Just think about it, how is it rational that you put a cap on how much a person is allowed to succeed? we literally have laws against monopolies? Its also again why I dont like the analogy because I bet there is reasons to literally not have billionaires. I am just not familiar with the reasons to be able to make educated arguments for/against them. Fukugana's plan is to make Nao a target equal to himself, which worked. That's why they aren't working with Nao. If you disagree, that just goes back to the argument about their feeling towards Nao. which again goes to my point of at worst for Nao the group doesnt like her/no amnesty while for Fukugana they hate her/have amnesty. Who do you hate more the person who stabs you in the back in a competition to make you fall or the winner who got gold medal? Not everyone thinks like you. And they don't need to trust Fukugana. The votes are secured through M tickets. While not everyone thinks like you? That goes both ways. so they dont need to trust Nao either they can get their revenge while not trusting Nao with M tickets. look I went through the whole shit with the other guy the arguments just fall flat to me. The reasons to break up a supposed alliance between Fukugana/Nao makes sense. The reasons to not speak to Nao/trust Fukugana again do not. You are making the same arguments the other guy was making while im using the same things to say why I dont believe that.

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Is the racist slur in the room with you right now? You seem genuinely confused, so I'll enlighten you: "Nigerian Prince" is a known scam/thing... I didn't pick a random African country like "Oooh I'm going to say South African Queen or Congolese Baron or something!"... It's literally known as "Nigerian Prince"; [Western TV Show] Better Call Saul used the exact same words in a 'scam' episode (Nigerian Prince), everyone knows of this scam...

It's an expression... You seem to think they picked it because it's an african country or something, but pretty sure half the countries in the world have expressions like that... Do you also have an issue with Spanish Prisoner (another type of scam)? With Mexican Standoff (an impasse situation)? With Russian Roulette (a deadly game)? Should we just call these "Prisoner", "Standoff" and "Roulette" to avoid offending Spaniards, Mexicans and Russians? Instead of "Pardon my French", should we say "Pardon my language"?

You would think in a game like Downsizing, a treacherous little snake like Fukunaga would be absolutely well and truly fucked after what they pulled. And yet, they’re able to seemingly weasel their way out of debt because of our genius protagonist Nao. Not only does Einstein walk right into Fukunaga’s trap and make herself Public Enemy No. 1 in this game by revealing she’s debt free and has 40 mill, she makes the brilliant move to cooperate with that Judas. Again. And when she inevitably got fucked, she’s actually surprised! It’s astonishing. Truly mind boggling. I’m very very curious to see how Nao gets herself out of this because Akiyama can’t save her now.

Curse your sudden yet inevitable betrayal, Fukunaga! Nao really needs to stop falling for the same people pulling the same schemes on her every time. At this point her only hope is that she can somehow manage to convince/scheme people into voting for her enough but with the M-contracts they have no incentive to go against Fukunaga otherwise they'll have to pay the penalty. What can Nao offer/give that Fukunaga or the risk of turning against them can't?

I think it is very clear that this author is very focused on the games itself rather than the characters, at least at this point in the story. From the game design perspective, I think it is clear they put a lot of effort on it. None of the games so far rely just on psychology. Lots of maths are involved, and that is not easy to write. I just wished more people discuss the possible game strategies rather than just Nao, since that is where the fun lies in these types of shows.

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See, but she arguably doesn't even have that. At this point, she has been repeatedly taken advantage of, repeatedly exposed as an impediment to Akiyama (both living his life generally, and in the Liar Game specifically), and repeatedly saved by him anyway. She's spent literal months being embarrassed and scammed over and over. Yet despite all that, and even more importantly, despite the fact that Akiyama DID NOT ASK HER TO HELP HIM , she has utterly refused to recognize her shortcomings, decided unilaterally the he needs her help, and actively tied herself back to the railroad tracks after he gave up his freedom to get her out of this exact situation in the minority rule game. Any good intentions have been fully outweighed by her own delusion and failure to accurately recognize that painfully obvious situation at hand. At this point, Nao has fully crossed the line into arrogance and an unearned savior complex. Nao fucks over people who are trying to help her because of her own delusional worldview that she refuses to amend. Some one who does that, IMO, cannot be a genuinely good person - at a certain point, consequences trump the intent behind the act.

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For once, I don't think Nao was the dumbest one today. If, when Fukunaga suggested to the group that they pay him to betray Nao, someone had explained this offer to Nao and included her in one of the mini-voting groups, Nao wouldn't be losing right now. It’s not very smart to prefer Fukunaga over Nao, knowing that Fukunaga is very treacherous and a bad person. Option 1) Nao loses by teaming up with Fukunaga: it costs them money Option 2) Fukunaga loses by teaming up with Nao: It's free. But they wouldn't even think of it.

Oh wow the Lawyer guy did not lie, her 40m does let her 100% win super easy. 9*5*10=450, that's the max number of votes. 7*5*10=350 is the max number of votes she can get (excluding the last game loser who i doubt would vote for her, and also her own votes) 226 is the number of votes she needs to secure max place That means if she decided to buy other people's votes for 0.1m (Which i don't see why would anyone disagree, it might be 0.1 of their debt, but it does stack), she would basically be able to secure her win by spending 22.6M, wich is just arroun 10m on loses excluding the victory reward. Which, since she doesn't care about the money, there is no reason not to do it. She was, actually, not lied at all by the lawyer. Of course this plan just does not work BECAUSE SHE IS DUMB AS BRICKS.

Nao being stupid isn't a surprise, but the other guys aren't that much better. They clearly all hate Fukunaga and they all decided that he's the one who should be "downsized", and yet they ended up doing what he said. What kind of proof did they even have that he and Nao had an agreement? None! Of course that was true, but they still believed him just like that and also believed that Nao would bribe someone. There was a better way to handle that situation, they all just had to go to Nao tell her what Fukunaga told them and propose to go with his plan except with her in place of Fukunaga. Done, it was that simple. At that point the threat of Nao and her 40 millions wouldn't mean anything since she was set to win. Also if Fukunaga could beat the crap out of a guy without any organizer intervening what stops the guys from ganging up against him to make him pay for what he did the previous game? Miura even mentioned that he wanted to beat him.

"What kind of proof did they even have that he and Nao had an agreement? None! Of course that was true, but they still believed him just like that and also believed that Nao would bribe someone." Indeed, they should have asked for a M check. But honestly, did they even need one ? Either she's saying the truth and her proposal makes sense to save themselves, or she was lying but they're still saving themselves (by fucking over Nao). edit : Wasn't finished to read your comment, and yeah your second part would have been the most morally good choice (but also nice for them to f*ck over the one who double crossed them last round). "Also if Fukunaga could beat the crap out of a guy without any organizer intervening what stops the guys from ganging up against him to make him pay for what he did the previous game? Miura even mentioned that he wanted to beat him." I'm honestly expecting Fukunaga to get disqualified over this, if the game makes any sense. They clearly said that bringing weapons was forbidden, anything illegal to begin with, and someone beating another person/killing another person sounds very illegal aswell.

Except they are losing money by going with Fukunaga. The whole point is that she "sells her plan" for 35 million. After already having told the details. Of course, one could argue that they don't know Nao personally, but either way, from Nao's perspective, she either has no ally or one that betrayed her before. So convincing her to go with the plan because Fukunaga might betray her makes sense. And since they now have the upper hand in the negotiation, they don't need to pay 5 million each for the plan. Heck, they might even be able to get money from Nao for helping her. I have to say the setup is really starting to get annoying, because it isn't just Nao being stupid at this point. There are 7 people and no one gets an idea like this. It's not even like they were in time trouble and had to make a quick decision. Then there would at least be some believability here. But they do the same mistake that made them lose the last time which is no using the full amount of time before making a hasty decision.

Because it isn't true. The guarantee comes from them setting up a contract over 100 million. Both parties pay the other party 100 million with the contract being that party A had to give all their votes to party B and in return gets 100 million. As long as both parties do as told in the contract (i.e. voting for the other person), it's plus minus zero for both of them. However, if someone doesn't give all the votes, they would breach the contract and lose the 100 million they were paid for it. Putting them at a 100 million debt and giving the other person enough money to pay their debt should they lose because of it. The 35 million are completely independent from that.

You need to pay attention Nao can easily counter this arrangement. Before the final round she can ask someone to give one vote for her by signing a deal of 100 mil with the M ticket and an additional 40 mil from her pocket. So when someone breaks the contract he can already pay for it with Naos new contract with an additional 40 mil as profit and will win an additional 12.5 million after someone loses. This is the danger of having extra money and one which Fukunaga pointed out. They paid 5 million as protection and to make Nao lose and they would get a net profit of 7.5 million

You need to pay attention I really wouldn't start my comment like that, when you completely mixed up two scenarios here. Your "loophole" doesn't work because it relates to the "original setup" that is the following: Nao and Fukunaga are working together so they are guaranteed to get 50 votes in that scenario. If the other people don't want to lose they have to distribute their own votes among them, but that also only leads to everyone having 50 votes as well. So a tie. Which could be broken in the final round by Nao. She would pay one person 100 million + x (so 100 million in order to settle the debt they got for breaking the contract and X as an extra bonus to incentivise being a traitor) to give a final vote to her, which would mean one of the original 7 would only have 49 votes and therefore lose. The problem with your argumentation is now the following: Fukunaga is not part of Nao's team anymore. So the distribution of votes changes. Yes, amongst the 8 they have everyone would receive 50 votes, but there is still Nao left. Who can't vote for herself and doesn't have a partner anymore. So randomly, other people will get votes. But it doesn't matter because Nao has 0 throughout the game. She can't topple that by only paying someone in the final round. Now you might say that this is why they have to pay Fukunaga 35 million. It's the guarantee that Fukunaga won't go back to Nao immediately after and break their deal again making the first scenario possible. But how does that make any sense? Fukunaga was already at the bottom of the list for who will lose. Betraying them again when there is more than one game would just be stupid. But the bigger issue is that again, before taking that deal, they can just go to Nao. Nao's goal is also to not lose after all. If they can convince her that Fukunaga is a problem, then it's more likely she is helping them with that exact plan. And since the Fukunaga betrayal is evident, they have the chance of making this contract work by having Nao pay for the "guarantee". Another problem with your argumentation is that Nao can't just pay 100 million in the final round in the first place. The deals are balanced because everyone paid 100 million. But for that one vote in the last round, no one would have to (or even can) pay Nao. Nao wants that extra vote to make sure someone else loses in Fukunaga's scenario. But then, the other person does not need to pay Nao for her vote. Because they already have 50 votes secured through the 100 million deal. This could only be at risk if someone paid your partner 100 million to break the deal. But if Nao already paid you to break the deal, she does not have 100 million left for another one. Furthermore, for that to even make sense you can't even pay Nao 100 million yourself, because you are 100 million in debt for breaking the first deal. What this means is, that even in that hypothetical scenario, you would have to assume that Nao is willing to go 100 million into debt in just the first game if which there are more as Fukunaga pointed out in the beginning of the episode. Which is just ridiculous. Edit: Oh and another issue with scenario proposed by Fukunaga is that even if Nao breaks the tie by paying someone 100 million + X, that is what the contracts are for. Sure, the person being betrayed would be out of the game. But due to the contract, they would earn 100 million which they can use to pay the 100 million debt they have from game 2. Again, that is the whole point of this 100 million guarantee. That if someone screws you over and you lose because of that, you have 100 million you can use to pay your debt. So again, even if they believe that Nao would be willing to pay 100 million + X to make sure someone else loses game round 1, they didn't actually lose anything and are even freed from playing further.

You are not following my argument. Let me elaborate further. The situation which I mentioned is when the other contestants ( apart from Fukunaga and Nao) is transferring votes among themselves to secure their position and get 50 votes using M tickets. Now this is before Fukunaga made a deal with them. Fukunaga reveals to them that she has teamed up with Nao and that Nao can easily break their contract as I mentioned. Now what Fukunaga is offering is that if other contestant pays her 5 million so that she won’t vote Nao. So she gets 0 votes and will clearly lose. She cannot make the same deal after having zero votes because it won’t earn her 50 votes to win. So the 5 mil is the protection from Nao. Your final paragraph is totally wrong. Nao is asking for 1 vote for 140 million. The one giving the vote doesn’t have to pay her. He is selling his vote

What this means is, that even in that hypothetical scenario, you would have to assume that Nao is willing to go 100 million into debt in just the first game of which there are more as Fukunaga pointed out in the beginning of the episode. Which is just ridiculous. You realize that she's the only one who can afford to do so to survive? Everyone else is somewhere between -5m and -95m, so she's +40m on them. For her, that just puts her back into -60m, which is still better than whoever she's proposing the deal to who could be at -95m. And thanks to Fukunaga's meeting earlier, she'd know exactly who's most in need of that money.

Ehm no, this is not what they explained at all. The safety comes from everyone exchanging 100 million with the contract being they have to vote for each other. Therefore, if someone does not vote for them, they would be penalized with 100 million debt. This is actually the guarantee because it means, even if someone is betrayed, they get the full 100 million to pay their debts anyway. The 35 million to Fukunaga for the plan have nothing to do with that and are payed no matter if someone betrays them or not.

No one really lost 100 million. Everyone paid 100 million and received 100 million at the same time. So everyone is still at the same balance as before. They only lose the 100 million they received if they decide to not do what is stated in the contract (so voting for the other person). Furthermore, with how the liar game is set up, I don't think they don't allow you to go into further debt. In fact, it seems like that is the intended goal in the first place.

Again, that is the issue I originally stated. With how the show portrayed the scene, there is no actual reason to "buy" the plan since Fukunaga already laid it out. It would only make sense if the scene was shown in that Fukunaga says they have a plan where everyone except Nao wins, but they have to pay 35 million in total for it. Then they explain the plan. If the plan wouldn't work, everyone gets their 5 million back. As for the other question, M-checks aren't really checks but more like a bank account you can use inside the game. It has originally 100 million in it and you can get something on it and pay with the money in it. This makes sense, because the game isn't just one round but several. They need to use their M-checks for the other rounds as well. If they get paid money (for whatever transaction) this wouldn't go to their own bank account, but their in-game bank account (so the M-check) as that is the only way that the game masters can make sure that contracts are binding. And they also make sure that the money stays inside their own economy until the game ends (otherwise there might be a chance that can be used for people to trick the liar game and just run with the money). So if you get paid 100 million, then yes, you can use those 100 million to pay something else with it.

The 35 million to Fukunaga for the plan have nothing to do with that and are payed no matter if someone betrays them or not. Fukunaga literally states that: "Pay me 5 million each, and I'll save you all." "I'll stab Kanzaki Nao in the back." "I'll give my fifty votes to you." "Meanwhile, your survival is guaranteed." "You can buy my betrayal with these [M Tickets]." It's very clear what's being bought here.

Fukunaga just realized that they could guarantee vote tradings using the M checks, once those are signed people have to vote as established because they are being overseen by the organizer and if they don't honor their trade they'll get a 100 million yen penalty per infraction. But once Fukunaga told them that, they really didn't need him anymore, they could have gone to Nao and propose that system to her.

...no? Fukunaga literally states that: "Pay me 5 million each, and I'll save you all." "I'll stab Kanzaki Nao in the back." "I'll give my fifty votes to you." "Meanwhile, your survival is guaranteed." "You can buy my betrayal with these [M Tickets]." This is 100% clear as to what is being paid for. Fukunaga is simply also layering a forced vote trade guaranteed by the M Tickets on top of that so that they can't just backstab her. But once Fukunaga told them that, they really didn't need him anymore, they could have gone to Nao and propose that system to her. Except as framed, again, the first meeting was literally about "who do you not want to have to fight in Actual Game 3", and Fukunaga's point was literally "no, you don't want the person with an extra 40m sitting there that can be used to bribe people".

You didn't pay attention to what's happened after that. It was clearly shown that basically there is one guy that is paying for Fukunaga's votes but at the same time Fukunaga is paying for that guy's votes so that the two payments cancel out. They could use that strategy with Nao instead, there's absolutely nothing that could stop that. It is no longer a matter of trust once you do that, because the M tickets guarantee that people must do what they were paid for. Except as framed, again, the first meeting was literally about "who do you not want to have to fight in Actual Game 3", and Fukunaga's point was literally "no, you don't want the person with an extra 40m sitting there that can be used to bribe people". Man, who do I want to face on Game 3? A genius manipulator who already betrayed me or an idiot with 40 millions? That sounds like an absolute no brainer to me.

Maybe even if they went to Nao, she wouldn't have believed that Fukunaga would betray her. Also she would be like, 'I can never betray Fukunaga' or something lol. Then Fukunaga would carry out the original plan with Nao and the rest of them would use the vote exchanging plan. But they are 7, an odd number. So they would downsize the one who decided to go to Nao in the first place. I think that's why nobody is talking about going to Nao.

I feel people are forgetting Naos nickname as was dropped at the beginning of the series. She is colloquially known as "Foolishly Honest". Her trusting people foolishly and being bad at lying is the reason why she has the title. Though in this particular place she is not the dumbest person in this Liar game round. that honor is reserved for everyone else besides fukunaga. They really dont have any idea how to prioritize and strategize. They were all betrayed by fukunaga in the previous game and if they really considered the threat properly they would know taking fukunaga out should be higher. they should be thinking on how to handle Nao in that case but its not like she has shown herself to be particularly dangerous. They also would know whatever trick she would have but to be honest there isnt much she can do even if she bribes one of them to give votes to her. them trusting fukunagas plan to get rid of Nao is only giving fukunaga more of a advantage in the next game.

And yet only one of them there walked out with money and is coming back. Which is another indication of her not being very smart. All the smart people that got money dropped out from the game. You called her an idiot for revealing that - but if they can't blame her for making money, then why is she an idiot for revealing that? I don't really understand your logic here. She can't be blamed for making money out of game 2, but you can call her stupid for reveal that information in the recovery game. Where's the contradiction?

All the smart people that got money dropped out from the game. Akiyama is right there as a prime counterexample. There can be multiple reasons for going back in, one of them being greed, for instance. She can't be blamed for making money out of game 2, but you can call her stupid for reveal that information in the recovery game. Where's the contradiction? If she can't be blamed for making money, then there's no problem with revealing it. If there is a problem with her having made money, then she can absolutely be blamed for it. Either her making money in that circumstance is something that the other participants would look down upon, and thus revealing it is bad, or it's not something they would scorn, and thus it's fine. You can't have it both ways.

Akiyama is right there as a prime counterexample. Either you aren't reading what I wrote or you didn't quite pay attention to the anime, I said "All the smart people that got money dropped out from the game". Akiyama got no money. His deal with number 15 the previous game plus the contracts he signed with his group entailed him giving up everything. There can be multiple reasons for going back in, one of them being greed, for instance. I can concede that there could be other reasons, but staying in the game for greed is something that I would still put inside the category of being stupid. If she can't be blamed for making money, then there's no problem with revealing it. If there is a problem with her having made money, then she can absolutely be blamed for it. No, there is no logical connection between those two things. What she can be blamed for is staying in the game after gaining money, but gaining money on game 2 by itself is not something that she could be blamed for.

Either you aren't reading what I wrote or you didn't quite pay attention to the anime, I said "All the smart people that got money dropped out from the game". Respectfully, that wasn't a requirement. That was by choice . He didn't need to pay off everyone in 15's team, nor did he need to give 15 an extra 100 million. Those are entirely his own choices with the money he gained. So yes, that absolutely applies. And it's also not that everyone else in round 2 was particularly smart - after all, they all got scammed by Fukunaga in the exact same fashion. They all lost, and were ejected from the game. But with their debt paid off and without any other pressing reason to return, they simply could choose to not accept any invitation to return they might have been offered. (Incidentally, we don't even know that, they could be playing a Revival Round at a different location.) but gaining money on game 2 by itself is not something that she could be blamed for. Then she can't be an idiot for revealing that. If her getting money is not a thing she can be blamed for, then revealing that she gained money from round 2 is not a stupid move, as there is no reason to hold that against her.

Respectfully, that wasn't a requirement. That was by choice . He didn't need to pay off everyone in 15's team, nor did he need to give 15 an extra 100 million. Those are entirely his own choices with the money he gained. Is that true? I'm not sure n° 15 would have accepted the deal otherwise. So yes, that absolutely applies. Applies to what? That still doesn't change the fact that he got no money in the end, so my statement remains true. Then she can't be an idiot for revealing that. She can if she reveals it in a situation where that would make her become enemy number one. I'm pretty sure I extensively explained this.

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I have lost all sympathy for Nao at this point. Being tricked by the same people multiple times is getting old. I get she's supposed to be trusting and gullible and all that but theres a point where it becomes less a character flaw and more of an annoyance. At least get tricked by a new person. Akiyama will show up and magically find a way to win only for her to get tricked into being involved again next week rinse and repeat. May give this another ep or 2 but im about checked out on this.

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How and why the F does EVERYONE there believe Fukunaga? At every new juncture, she proposes something so preposterous they all buy it hook line and sinker. Is there no one like #15 to question and be skeptical of this woman? You know it's a choice to go with her or not. She could be bluffing, laying out secondary or tertiary plans, but there's 7 other players whose votes count more than just 2 (or 1).

The face you make when you realize the odds of winning went down from 88% to ≈0% I wonder why they even bothered with that! If the game had lasted a week or a month it would've played a part, but 12 hours, people won't give much for a drink or a bite to eat! Now THIS will 100% play a part; The players seems to have taken this as "It's impossible to break a contract"... What it means is "You can break a contract for 100m yen!" How much are kidneys going for? And does anyone need a third one, by any chance? Awww, don't sell yourself short; That dress is pretty cute, Fukunaga would give you a few coins for it! Even without the contracts, voting over 10 hours means no one can betray in the early rounds, otherwise they lose many rounds of votes in the future (when the other person betrays as well)! Well, no one can betray someone other than Nao in the first round hah. Wait, 'her'? Wasn't Fukunaga calling himself a man earlier? Nao, FOR THE LOVE OF EVERYTHING THAT IS HOLY, think of your next answer! Ok if the show is trying to make us sad/to care for Nao, at some point it won't work anymore. Jeez, I wonder why she made me say I'M RICH AS FUCK in front of the group, when she already knew! That being said, the others are dumb too... If some guy stole money from me then got broke, and I had to play a game with him and Bill Gates, I wouldn't side with the guy who stole my money just because "He's broke just like me and Bill Gates is a billionaire"... The guy who betrayed me and caused me to be in this mess in the first place is so much more reliable than the one who committed the crime of 'having money'! I don't blame Nao for falling for it, because she's a fucking idiot and can't help it, but the others are all fucking idiots too? I mean, even idiots would know not to trust someone who... proved they can't be trusted. THE SCHEMING LIAR LIED AND SCHEMED AGAIN! She got them by saying Nao would propose a betrayal... Nao couldn't betray her way out of a paper bag! Oh wow, the person who betrayed us last round and stabbed us in the back, made a deal with someone else and will betray THEM and stab THEM in the back this time, so we can trust her entirely and make a new deal with her! I think there's an unwritten rule that says you can't betray more than 3 times over 2 games, and she's already at 3 so they're safe! So what's Prince Charming going to do? It's too late for him to join... Can he act as an adviser? But he would need to talk to everyone to make something happen... Even if he comes up with a plan and tells Nao outside the building, it's not like she'll manage to get it done (vs Fukunaga who'll obviously watch her like a hawk)

How is the Liar Game manga highly rated? It's some of the worst writing I've ever seen with these type of betrayal games. How it didn't get axed after this arc is a true miracle. There must actually be Shakespeare, Kafka, Tolstoy, Dickens, Hemingway, Joyce, and Homer combined levels of writing after this that somehow saved this whole train wreck. Literally everyone has brain damage. Yeah you know that woman who not only stole 100 million from someone else, lied to all of us on a contract, and then betrayed all of us? Yeah lets just believe her and also pay her money??????????????? Nao is infuriating and makes the show close to unwatchable, but at least they established she is a trusting idiot. All of those other guys though, they won their first game they actually can't be this stupid. They have no excuse for falling for this twice. Hey remember how the evil lady said think about who you want to cut in the next game, lets bring along clearly the best liar here instead of Nao who a baby could steal candy from.

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At the first round, Fukunaga himself literally isolated Nao from the rest of them until the voting. Fukunaga plan itself is flawless and no brainer, the only requirement is the insurance or the mutual trust between two players. Nao trust him because she did not think of any reason for Fukunaga to betray her, since both of them are in a pretty bad spot. She didn't take into account that for Fukunaga, just clearing the game and earning the prize might not be enough

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I really went into this season thinking Rent-A-Girlfriend would be the only show I was going to hate watch, but man somehow I'm hate watching Liar Game even more. This is easily one of the worst shows I've ever seen, but I just can't stop I need to know what completely idiotic thing Nao is going to do next. When they said that 8 out of the 9 people would win I thought that maybe Nao actually had a chance to do something by herself, just stay out of the way and it'll probably work out. She couldn't even do that right though, so now she has to get saved yet again. She is far and away the worst protagonist I've ever seen in any story, anime or otherwise. Completely unbearable, seemingly mentally challenged and literally unable to learn from her past actions. It's genuinely shocking someone managed to write a character this shit and nobody told them to fix it, this is why manga usually have editors helping make the authors make better decisions.

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Don't usually do this this late into a season, but I think this is a drop. It's gotten to the point where Nao being absolutely fucking braindead is so annoying/frustrating that I can feel my heart rate spiking. I recognize evoking that reaction is the point of her character, but I just can't be spending my precious free time on a show that unironically stresses me out. I may go and check out the manga to see if a different medium helps, but I'm done with the show.

AND the games they're playing flat-out suck. There's no tension really, we're just waiting to see how much more dumb Nao can get. That's not fun either. Seeing all the other people in the Liar Game have their own "Nao" moment by trusting the Bald headed cross-dresser after they've already been double-crossed makes me think this anime isn't going to have intelligent writing. Just "intelligent characters" who are able to get away with bloody-murder because their only competition are like gullible children. This CAN'T be from the same guy who wrote One Outs.