+365
DawgDictator
So we all think that Akiyama voted yes to force a tie right? Especially after the kira breakdown
つまり秋山は引き分けにするために賛成に投票したってみんな思ってるよね?特にキラがブチ切れた後だとさ。普通くん+116
Frontier246
I'd be shocked if he hadn't seen through Hitomi by that point.
Also he seemed surprised the baseball guy was back at the venue too so that might have effected things?
同意!秋山がその時点で瞳を見抜いてなかったら逆に驚くわ。
あと野球の奴が会場に戻ってきたのに驚いてたのも、何か影響あったかもな?感情くん+67
Drill_Dr_ill
My guess is that was confirmation that another subgroup of people was doing the same strategy as his group (the worst case scenario, as it would lead to perpetual ties), and that the baseball guy was in the other group and was nervous like Nao was.
せやな、あのタイミングで野球部のやつが戻ってきたのは、自分のグループと同じ戦略を別のグループも取ってるって確定した瞬間やろな。最悪のケースや、永遠に引き分け続ける未来しか見えへんわ。野球部のやつもナオと同じくビビってたんやろなあ…2ちゃん+57
IceSmiley
Yes and I wish they didn't broadcast it that way and make it so obvious and over the top but I guess they wanted to force a cliffhanger and force another game where Akiyama has to use his wits to get into the minority and win.
それな。でもああいう露骨な演出じゃなくてもよかった気がするけど、まあ製作側はわざとクリフハンガーにして、秋山が少数派に入って勝つための頭脳戦をもう一回見せたかったんだろうね。普通くん+29
entinio
原文
Yeah, but it doesn’t make sense. When Akiyama said something was wrong and the worst scenario, it’s that another group of 8 people did the same strategy. Which explains why they were calm as well.
That means the other duo should have voted yes + no. It doesn’t make any sense they did a double no. By voting yes as well, Akiyama would then be eliminated and the only no would be in the other team. Really risky.
確かに、秋山が「何かがおかしい」「最悪のシナリオだ」と言ったのは、もう一組の8人グループが同じ戦略を取った可能性を指していたんだろうな。それで彼らも冷静だった理由が説明できる。
つまり、もう一方のペアは「イエス+ノー」で投票すべきだったはず。なのにダブルノーをやったのは理屈が通らない。もし秋山がイエスを出したら、秋山自身が脱落して、もう一方のチームにノーが1票だけ残る計算になる。本当にリスキーな賭けだよな。考察くん+23
Jacob-C
原文
What has most likely happened is that 15 has played by himself this whole time. Hitomi teamed up with Akiyama & co while also teaming up with mohawk guy and 6 others. In this round she manipulated mohawk guy or number 15 to change how they would be voting in order to trick Akiyama. However, Akiyama saw through this and will most likely be forcing a tie in the next episode.
Akiyama could already have struck up an alliance with number 15 or he will be doing that next episode, unless mohawk guy and number 15's roles are reversed, in which case he will ally with mohawk guy. Or, there's the less likely option of him finding a way to win on his own.
確かに、15番はずっと単独行動してた可能性が高いね。瞳がアキヤマたちと組む一方で、モヒカンと6人とも組んでたんだろう。今回のラウンドでは、アキヤマを騙すためにモヒカンか15番の投票を操作したんだと思う。でもアキヤマはそれを見抜いてて、次回は引き分けに持ち込むんじゃないかな。
- アキヤマは既に15番と同盟を結んでるか、次回そうするだろう
- モヒカンと15番の役割が逆なら、モヒカンと組むかも
- あるいは自力で勝つ方法を見つける可能性も(低いけど)普通くん+34
SOdAchick
Of course he did. This show is nothing if not obscenely predictable. The lawyer was obvious, the teacher handing over money to Akiyama was obvious, and X was obvious. And they call Nao stupidly honest, but she's just plain stupid. She's like a 6 year old telling the cops her parents smoke weed
せやな。このアニメ、展開が読めすぎて草生えるわ。
弁護士も教師がワイに金渡すとこもXも全部明白やん。
ナオは「正直バカ」って言われてるけど、ただのアホやろ。
親が大麻吸ってるって6歳児が警察にチクるレベルやで。2ちゃん+23
IronWishmaster
原文
It's not unusual for such mind-game type stories to have PoV character being on a dumber side, since it kills three birds with one stone: highlights smartness of the designated "genius schemer", allows for the future growth of the PoV character, and gives an excuse to explain logic of mind games in excruciating details. But damn, did Liar Game overdo it with Nao. She legit looks like she has some severe developmental issues and/or cognitive impairment. Nao is what, 18? But her reasoning capabilities are that of a small child, this goes well beyond "naive and honest young girl".
確かに、心理ゲームものの作品では主人公をあえて無知寄りに設定するのはよくある手法だ。一石三鳥で、天才策士の頭の良さが際立ち、主人公の成長余地が残せ、ゲームのロジックを細かく説明する口実にもなる。だが『LIAR GAME』は直をやりすぎた。彼女、明らかに深刻な発達障害か認知障害を抱えているようにしか見えない。直はたしか18歳だよな?でも推理力は小さな子供レベルで、「純真で正直な少女」という範疇を完全に超えている。考察くん+24
SOdAchick
EXACTLY what I was thinking. A grown young woman acting like a five year old whose dad told her to keep a secret from her mom
ETA oops forgot I already made an analogy about her childishness 😅
全く同感にござる。成人した若い娘が、父から「母には内緒じゃ」と言われた五歳児のように振る舞うとは、まことに嘆かわしい。
(追記:おっと、既に彼女の幼さを例え話にしておったな。失礼仕った😅)武士+7
PrincipeDeiPoveri
原文
Honestly, I immediately realized that X was the blonde. Not only would it have been too predictable if X had been number 15, but the blonde's behavior was too suspicious, both in her pushing Nao to suspect number 15 and only him, and in her desire to push Nao to the finals (and as an ally, she would have been dead weight, while as an enemy, she would have been a joke).
That said, I don't consider this predictability a flaw. After all, we're talking about a really old manga, so it's normal for it to be somewhat predictable.
Finally, I still don't like the character designs.
正直なところ、Xがブロンドの女だとすぐに気づいたよ。Xが15番だったらあまりにも予想通りすぎたし、ブロンドの女の行動も怪しかった。奈央に15番だけを疑わせようとしていた点や、彼女を決勝に進ませたがっていた点(味方なら足手まとい、敵なら笑いものになる存在)を踏まえると、伏線として意図的だったと思われる。
とはいえ、この予想しやすさを欠点とは思わない。何しろかなり古い漫画だから、ある程度読めてしまうのは当然だという考察ができる。
最後に、キャラデザはやっぱり好みじゃないな。考察くん+111
Frontier246
There's a reason Akiyama told her to watch "everyone" and didn't narrow it down to just 15.
確かに秋山が「全員」って言ったのには理由があるよね。15人に絞らなかった時点で、Xがブロンドだって気づくべきだったわ。普通くん+54
nofaxxspitintruflego
but nao doesnt seem to take heed of anything akiyama says, even tho he's been nothing but a saint to her
smh my head my head
せやけどナオは秋山の言うこと全然聞かへんよな、あんだけ聖人みたいに尽くしてくれてるのに
マジで首振りすぎて頭取れるわwww2ちゃん+35
KartoffelStein
You would think she would trust him over her own opinion by now but she legit doesn't care
まあ確かに、彼女は秋山の言うこと全然聞かないよな。何度助けられたか分かってるはずなのに、まったく気にしてないんだよな。ドライおじ+21
PrincipeDeiPoveri
原文
true, he probably already understood everything, even if the fact that he wasn't the one to decide to pair up with the blonde makes me have some doubts, like if Nao hadn't decided to create mixed couples, in the final with the blonde co could have been Nao, which would have led to the defeat, so If we don't think that it was Akiyama himself who suggested couples of that kind, Akiyama and Nao were lucky
確かに…我が盟友・秋山は全てを見通していたのだろう。だが、彼自らが金髪の女と組むことを決断したわけではないという点に、暗き疑惑が渦巻く。もし直が混合ペア制度を提案していなければ、最終決戦で直が金髪と対峙し、敗北の運命を辿っていたかもしれぬ。つまり、秋山自身がこの形式を仕組んだのでなければ、両者はただ運命の女神に微笑まれたに過ぎぬのだ。中二病+6
ModieOfTheEast
原文
Nao didn't do that though. Akiyama did. He told Nao that they should have a man and a woman together for safety and that she should not pair with him. So without telling her, he wanted to pair up with Hitomi. I mean, his whole extra folding makes it clear that he expected her to reveal herself.
The real question is how Hitomi managed to get these outcomes. Not only did she have to get through to the final four, she also had to make sure that the number of people getting through was alway maximum and she had to make sure that she would be the one winning in the end. There is way too much chance, so there has to be a plan but even if she proposed something similar to the rest of the gang as Akiyama did, there would still be a high chance of her actually dropping out at some point.
確かに、直はそんなことしてないよね。秋山がやったんだ。秋山は直に「安全のため男女ペアにしよう、俺とは組むな」って言って、直には言わずに瞳と組もうとしてた。余計な折り畳みからも、瞳が正体を明かすのを期待してたのが明らかだし。
本当の問題は、どうやって瞳がこの結果を出したかだよ。最終4人に残るだけでなく、常に通過者数を最大にしつつ、最後に自分が勝つように仕向けたんだ。偶然が多すぎるから計画があるはずだけど、秋山みたいに他のメンバーに似た提案をしても、どこかで脱落する可能性は高かったんじゃないかな。普通くん+21
Vahallen
原文
Yeah she talked way too much and clearly tried to manipulate Nao
Honest, kinda disappointing with how blatant it is
You need multiple active characters to actually make people doubt who the culprit might be among the cast and really here literally the only active character showcased was “Hitomi”
Number 15 was literally just a red herring, it’s not even a character
You could make the random nobody with no screen time the “culprit” but that makes for a bad fictional mistery
If somehow they completely flip everything around next episode I deserve to get called whatever, but for now I’m disappointed
確かに彼女は喋りすぎだったし、明らかに奈緒を操作しようとしてたよね。正直、あそこまで露骨だとがっかりだよ。
複数のアクティブなキャラクターがいてこそ、観客が犯人を疑う余地が生まれるのに、この作品で実際に動きを見せたキャラクターは「ヒトミ」だけだった。
15番は単なるミスリードで、キャラクターとして成立すらしていない。
出番のないモブを「犯人」にすることはできるが、それはフィクションの謎解きとして質が悪い。
もし次回で完全にひっくり返す展開が来たら、何と呼ばれても文句は言えないけど、現時点では失望してるよ。考察くん+49
Jauretche
15 was like, let me eat this steak, suspiciously...
マジでそれな!15がステーキ食うシーン、怪しすぎじゃね?笑ギャル+38
Careful_Ad_9077
He was just aura farming, probably thought this was a Shounen series.
確かに、ただオーラ見せつけてただけだよね。少年漫画だと思ってたんじゃない?普通くん+32
AlphaBreak
"He's just standing there...MENACINGLY"
「ただそこに立ってるだけなのに…威圧感がやばすぎるッ!」感情くん+19
milshake
bro was just there for the free food
ワイ「ただ飯食いに来ただけやんwww」草2ちゃん+11
hanmkim
Might as well get his money's worth if he's going to be 100 million in debt.
確かに、1億の借金背負うなら元取ろうって感じだよね。普通くん+8
HolyDragSwd2500
15 was invoking Bakura from Yugioh. Steak scene
(要約への相槌)確かに、15がステーキを食う場面は怪しい空気でござったな。
【翻訳】
15は遊戯王のバクラを彷彿とさせる振る舞いでござる。あのステーキの場面、まさにその通りで候。武士+6
resphere
I'm pretty sure it's supposed to be somewhat obvious who X was, at least in this episode. You're definitely expected to figure it out at some point, the only one who didn't was Nao and the "surprise" reveal was really just for her.
The real game is trying to figure out how they rigged the plan and how the mcs will win.
確かに彼女の喋りすぎは作為的だったな。でも、あれは視聴者側にある程度Xの正体を悟らせるための演出だと思うんだよ。伏線として機能してるからこそ、ナオだけが気づかない構造になってるのが面白い。本当の勝負は、彼女たちがどうやって仕組まれた計画のからくりを見破るか、そして逆転の手段をどう構築するかにあると考察できる。考察くん+11
AlexeiFraytar
There's not much point to make multiple characters active since the game can only really show the mindgames when its 4 left, more than that you're really just up to chance on what the masses vote.
せやな、4人残ってからが本番やろ。それ以上いると結局は多数決の運ゲーになるし、複数キャラ動かす意味あんまないわ。ワイもあの露骨な操作にはちょっとガッカリやったンゴwww2ちゃん+7
HarshTheDev
They really should've built red-spikey-hair as a real character
確かに、赤い逆立った髪の奴をもっと深く描くべきだったのだ。だが、このゲームは4人でしか真の心理戦が発動せぬ定め…あの男は運命に弄ばれた哀れな駒に過ぎなかったのだな。中二病+6
Hour_Trade_3691
原文
Okay, but like.. No you didn't.
In Episode 4, Literally everyone was saying that X had to be either the old man or Number 15.
And now that the twist has been revealed, everyone's trying to pretend like they predicted it from the start, when they clearly didn't.
That's what bugs me so much honestly, The people who are trying to say that this is predictable are literally just lying- Liar Game.
When I first read the manga, I certainly figured that there was a Chance that X was her, But even then, I was sitting there anxiously waiting for the reveal. I wasn't sitting on the couch with my arms crossed saying that it was predictable.
And even if you did predict who X was, there's absolutely no way you predicted that it would go down exactly the way it did.
I'm really trying hard not to be rude, but I honestly just get so frustrated when people try to act like this show is predictable when it's not. Whenever this show does anything that they didn't predict, they get angry.
いや、そんなことないでしょ。
第4話の時点では、みんな「Xは老人か15番のどっちかだ」って言ってたじゃん。
で、今になってネタバレが明らかになったら、最初から予想してたって顔するのやめてほしいわ。
正直これが一番ムカつくんだよね。「この展開は予想通りでした」って言う人、完全に嘘ついてるだけだよ。LIAR GAMEかよって。
俺も原作読んだ時、Xが彼女かもしれないって可能性は考えたけど、それでもドキドキしながら待ってたし。「予想通りだわ」って腕組んでソファに座ってる余裕なんてなかった。
それに、Xが誰か当てられたとしても、あの展開を完全に予想できた人は絶対いない。
失礼にならないように気をつけてるけど、この作品が予想通りだって言う人がいると本当にイライラするんだ。予想外の展開があるたびに文句言うの、なんか違くない?普通くん+24
Vahallen
原文
It’s more that if you follow the rules of fiction it kinda all points towards “Hitomi”
15 obviously is a red herring, right from the beginning gets tag as “X” and the game is not even started yet (technically)
For a mistery or deception to be satisfying in fiction you need the “culprit” to be an active character or there must be something pointing at them before the reveal, if some random was “the culprit” it would just be unsatisfying
So it has to be “Hitomi” because it’s literally the only other highlighted characters with actual Lines and screen time outside of our protagonists
If any other character was more active it would be different, but really here the only characters are Nao, Akiyama and Hitomi, you can’t call the rest characters at all
If you played this game in reality it would be crazy to guess, but because this is a show you can reason by using the rules of fiction instead
確かに、フィクションのルールに従えば「ヒトミ」にすべてが収束するという考察は成り立つ。
15は明らかな囮で、ゲーム開始前から「X」とタグ付けされている時点で怪しいしな。
ミステリーや騙し合いが作品として成立するには、真犯人は能動的なキャラクターである必要がある。ランダムなモブが犯人じゃ納得できない。
つまり、主人公たち以外で明確なセリフと画面時間を持つキャラはヒトミしかいない。ナオ、アキヤマ、ヒトミの3人だけが実質的なキャラクターだ。
現実のゲームなら荒唐無稽な推理だが、これはショーだからこそ、フィクションのルールで読める。考察くん+30
BubblyCrash
原文
To be fair, sometimes you can predict things using meta knowledge (especially during the episode itself where Hitomi/Fukunaga had a lot of focus), though that's not the same as predicting the game itself. Like in a murder mystery, sometimes you can guess who the culprit is based on genre knowledge or process of elimination, but not know the details of how the murder was executed or how to prove they did it, which the detective has to work through. I would be impressed if I see someone understand the whole flow of the game (like how Fukunaga managed to "win", or the clues Akiyama was noticing and why they mattered) before it is revealed in the next episode.
確かに、メタ知識(特にそのエピソード内で瞳や福永が多くフォーカスされてたから)で予測できることはあるよね。でもそれはゲームそのものを予想するのとは別だと思う。殺人ミステリで、ジャンル知識や消去法で犯人を当てられても、犯行の詳細や証明方法までは分からないし、探偵がそれを解き明かす必要があるのと同じ。もし誰かがゲーム全体の流れ(福永がどうやって「勝った」のか、秋山が気づいた手がかりとその重要性)を次回明かされる前に理解してたら、それはすごいと思う。普通くん+19
Hour_Trade_3691
原文
I think the main problem with this show is that for whatever reason, a lot of people who are new to it just won't get emotionally invested in it.
It's such a shame because I remember genuinely being on the edge of my seat as I read the manga. Even when I was able to predict something, I was never able to predict How it was done and I was Always still tense.
People are seeming to watch this show And then they say that because they can predict the twist, that makes the show bad.
Like what happened to... Wanting the main characters to succeed? Why is everyone watching the show just so apathetic about Nao being told to her face that she's going to be ¥100 million in debt AGAIN?
まあこの作品の一番の問題は、新規の視聴者がなぜか感情移入しづらいってことだろうな。漫画を読んでた時は確かにハラハラしたもんだ。展開を予想できても、その方法までは分からなくて、常に緊張感があった。今の視聴者は「展開が読めるからつまらない」って言うけど、主人公の成功を願う気持ちはどこに行ったんだ?ナオがまた1億円の借金を背負うって直接言われても、みんな無関心すぎないか?ドライおじ+11
PrincipeDeiPoveri
原文
I had absolutely no idea she was trans, but I knew she was an enemy, in fact her behavior immediately made me think of two theories: the first was that she was an ally of number 15 (which would have explained how number 15 had managed to get to the final so easily) and that obviously she would have helped him win in the final, the second was that she had simply disguised herself as a man, after all in anime it often happens that women disguise themselves as men, also having great success with women.
【返信先】
あ?いやいや、お前何言うてんねん。
ワイは彼女がトランスだって全く知らんかったけど、敵ってのは確信してたわ。実際あの行動見てすぐ2つの仮説思い浮かんだンゴ。
・1つ目は15番の味方やって、そいつが決勝まで楽に上がれた理由説明できるってやつ。当然決勝で助けるやろなって。
・2つ目は単に男装してるだけ説。アニメやと女が男装して女にもモテるパターンよくあるやん。まあ結果的に草生える展開やったけどなwww2ちゃん+16
ElevatorAlarming4766
原文
I'll be real, almost every point people are using to argue it was obvious Fukunaga was X is stuff from within episode 5, with the reveal being right at the end of it. Obviously they aren't gonna pause half way through the episode to go "Man I really think it's the blonde chick what you guys thinking?" at that point. There isn't enough evidence at the end of episode 4 to really go off tbh (and what there is points at the old guy tbh) but yeah by fifteen minutes into ep 5 it's pretty obvious.
Or maybe not, I read the manga so I knew what was coming anyway, and first read it so long ago I can't really remember what I was predicting at any given point.
確かに。ep4の時点で福永がXって断言できる材料って正直あんまりないよね。ep5の途中まで進まないと確信持てないし、その時点で「やっぱ金髪の子じゃね?」って言い出すのは無理があるわ。ep4終わりだとむしろ老人の方に証拠が向いてる感じだし。ep5入って15分くらいで流石にわかるけど。
まあ俺は原作読んでたから展開知ってたし、初読が昔すぎて当時何予想してたかも覚えてないけどな。普通くん+12
nofaxxspitintruflego
i mean cmon, it was RLY predictable since like the first few min of this episode
いやマジで言うけどさ、このエピソードの最初の数分で普通に予想できたしな感情くん+8
Emi_Ibarazakiii
原文
> In Episode 4, Literally everyone was saying that X had to be either the old man or Number 15.
I imagine the comment above is talking about "This episode", not the previous one...
In the previous episode pretty much all we had to guess was their looks. So of course we didn't know then.
But I'd question the attention/logic of anyone who did NOT realize who was X halfway into this episode... It was insanely obvious.
>Literally everyone was saying that X had to be either the old man or Number 15.
Come on now.
I would've bet my house against $1 that it wasn't Number 15.
First, it was the most obvious red herring in the history of humanity, BUT also it would make zero sense to have a "betrayer" who's not even part of the group... He couldn't do anything that his 'betrayer' nature would help him with.
Might as well say "I think X is actually Bill Gates! Ok he's not even a participant and can't even do anything here, but I think it's him!"
If X is not part of the group X is utterly irrelevant. So again I'd seriously question the logical sense of anyone who thought 15 was X.
And if you think I'm saying this in hindsight, feel free to go back to my comment in the previous thread, where I'm pretty sure I theorize about who X is based on a picture of the group members (and no one else)... And IIRC I didn't even mention #15 at all because I already labed him as a mislead.
>I'm really trying hard not to be rude, but I honestly just get so frustrated when people try to act like this show is predictable when it's not.
I'm also trying not to be rude, BUT if you really think it's not a super obvious guess to make that X was the blonde when she kept telling Nao to watch 15, and she kept referring to herself as a girl...
Come on!
Do you not question things that are said/done by the characters?
Did you not think it was weird for her to constantly call herself a girl?
To constantly tell Nao to focus on that 1 guy (who again, is irrelevant because he's not in the group)?
It was one of the most obvious 'reveal' I've ever seen.
And no, people didn't know in the previous episode, because again, we had like zero information to guess.
But everyone who was paying attention probably knew halfway into this one.
> 4話で「Xは老人か15番のどっちかだ」ってみんな言ってたよね
上のコメントは「今週のエピソード」の話であって、前回の話じゃないと思うんだ。前回は見た目で推測するしかなかったし、当時はわからなくて当然だよ。
でも、今週のエピソードの途中でXが誰か気づかなかった人の注意力や論理性は疑わざるを得ない…あまりにも明白だった。
> 「Xは老人か15番のどっちかだ」ってみんな言ってたよね
いやいや。俺なら1ドルに家を賭けてもいいくらい、15番じゃないと確信してたよ。
まず、あれは人類史上最もわかりやすいミスリードだ。それに、グループにすら所属してない「裏切り者」がいても意味がない。裏切り者の性質を活かせる行動が何もできないんだから。
「Xはビル・ゲイツだと思う!参加者でもないし何もできないけど、そうだと思う!」って言ってるのと同じだよ。
Xがグループの一員でなければ、Xは完全に無意味だ。だから15番をXだと思った人の論理的思考は本気で疑う。
これを後出しで言ってると思うなら、前のスレッドの俺のコメントを見てみてほしい。グループメンバーの写真だけからXを推測してたはずで、15番はミスリードと判断して名前すら出してなかったと思う。
> 失礼にならないように気をつけてるけど、この作品が予測可能だって言う人がいると正直イライラするんだ
俺も失礼にならないように言うけど、考察くん+8
oogieoogies
原文
> When I first read the manga, I certainly figured that there was a Chance that X was her, But even then, I was sitting there anxiously waiting for the reveal. I wasn't sitting on the couch with my arms crossed saying that it was predictable.
I mean lets go with that you didnt predict the blonde was X alright? It was pretty easy to see "ok X is on this team but idk who yet." I figured just that because of the whole "ok guys the only way we lose is if this happens no way it happens right?"
so from there you get this episode and its like "yeah the blonde is literally just screaming she is X."
was it predictable from the start it was the blonde? No. was it predictable X was on the team though? Yes. This episode just screamed it was the blonde.
I dont think the show is bad I do like the games a bit its just so far its ive seen it before. The way akiyama formulated his strat was something I didnt expect at least.
I also agree with others that idk if its just the anime being time constricted or the manga was like this too, but no one else was really a character besides the 2 MC, old man, and now the blonde.
確かに最初からブロンドがXってのは予想できなかったけど、Xがチームにいるってのは分かりやすかったよね。「こうなったら負ける」ってフラグが立ってたし。今回のエピソードでブロンドがXって確定した感じだったな。
でも作品自体は嫌いじゃないし、ゲーム展開は面白いと思う。秋山の戦略は予想外だったしね。
ただ、他の人も言ってたけど、アニメの尺のせいか原作もそうなのか、主人公2人と老人と今回のブロンド以外にキャラが立ってないのは気になる。普通くん+6
NevisYsbryd
You can go back to the discussion last week. Multiple already speculated that X was disguised as a woman or that the woman told them incorrectly.
「それな!先週の議論見直してこいって感じだよな。もう複数の人が『Xは女装してるか、女が間違った情報を伝えた』って予想してたんだよッ」感情くん+5
Ultramarinus
To be honest the main issue was that they show her on the OP solo, that is too much of a giveaway. “Look at this char standing solo”, even if they did everything in the episode correctly, that’s too suspicious.
確かに。OPで単独で映ってる時点でバレバレだよね。本編でどんなに上手くやっても、あれは怪しすぎるわ。普通くん+10
Emi_Ibarazakiii
Yeah, that's one of the flaws of this show (talked about it last week in some thread); They seem to think their audience are a bit dumb hah.
So everything is always so obvious.
せやな、それこのアニメの欠点やわ(先週のスレでも言ったけど)
視聴者をバカ扱いしてる感あるわwww
全部がわかりやすすぎやろ2ちゃん+9
T3tr4d5
But knowing who X is, is just half of the game. If you said everything in this show is obvious, then you need to be able to: 1) describe X's plan in detail; 2) how Akiyama could overturn this situation. Just knowing the identity of X still won't be enough to win you the game.
確かに。Xの正体を知るのはゲームの半分に過ぎないよ。もしこの作品の全てが自明だって言うなら、1)Xの計画を詳細に説明できること、2)秋山がどうやってこの状況を覆せるか説明できること、が必要だよね。Xの正体を知ってるだけじゃゲームに勝てないと思う。普通くん+11
Emi_Ibarazakiii
原文
Oh for sure, I'm not saying the whole thing is easy to predict or anything...
But about X's identity, I think it was 100% obvious, but some people in the thread are arguing that 'no, we didn't see it coming at all we're just making it up' or something, which I think is silly considering how obvious it is.
The rest of the plan, I think there's a few possible options (and probably more that I'm not even considering), but X was super obvious!
確かに、全体が簡単に読めるとは言ってないんだが…Xの正体に関しては100%明白だったと思う。にもかかわらずスレッド内で「いや、全く予想できなかった。後付けで言ってるだけだ」と主張する人がいるのが、あまりに明白なだけに滑稽に感じるよ。
残りの計画については、いくつか可能性のある選択肢があると思う(おそらく自分が考慮していないものもあるだろう)が、Xは超分かりやすかったな。考察くん+6
Tradition_Leather
The sub I watched that the blonde referred the 100 million CHEQUE which Nao didn't say that it's a cheque when she described X.
確かに!金髪がXだってすぐ分かったよね。ナオが説明した時に小切手って言わなかったから、金髪が「小切手」って言った時点で確定すぎるッ!伏線が綺麗すぎて鳥肌立ったわ。エモすぎる。感情くん+7
abandoned_idol
Nonsense!
Characters with more screentime are never the villain!
The blonde character was just very friendly is all! I'm sure this is all a huge misunderstanding.
は?まじかよw
スクリーンタイム多いキャラが悪役なわけないだろ!
金髪キャラはただフレンドリーなだけだってのw 絶対なんか誤解だって笑wwwおじ+7
FLorianGran
I think it's more ok because now the question is how does Akiyama win on his own?
確かに、今は秋山が単独でどうやって勝つのかってとこが気になるから、これでむしろ面白くなったと思うよ。普通くん+8
PrincipeDeiPoveri
原文
I have half an idea about it, like in stories like this, you always try to create absurd and imaginative twists and honestly the most absurd twist I can imagine is that Akiyama made a secret deal with number 15, both because he was given a lot of importance in these episodes, and because it's definitely too strange that Number 15 was so relaxed for all the turns and that he always won without problems.
それについては半分ほど考察ができている。こういう物語では、常識外れで想像力豊かな展開を仕掛けようとするものだ。私が考えうる最も突飛な展開は、秋山が15番と秘密裏に取引をしていたというものだ。その理由は二つ。まず、ここ数話で15番にかなりの重要性が与えられている点。そして、15番が全ての展開でこれほど落ち着いて、問題なく勝ち続けているのが明らかに不自然すぎる点だ。考察くん+22
NevisYsbryd
More likely, he already knew X was in the team, so he needed to vote outside of the plan he shared with the team. He delayed the reading of his own vote to get them to monologue before it is revealed the vote is actually a tie.
せやな、多分あいつは最初からXがチームにいるって気づいてたんやろ。だから共有した計画とは別の投票先を選ぶ必要があったんや。自分の投票を遅らせて、みんなに独り言させてから、実は同票やったって明かすための演出やな。2ちゃん+9
FarCritical
Now I'm gonna imagine Nao asking random people "Are you a Sword or Moat?" as a conversation starter.
The dramatic flair the host dude puts into those "No"s reminds me of the Smash announcer putting extra inflection on random names and I love it.
ナオが「君はソード派?モート派?」って知らない人に聞いてる光景を想像してるんだけど。
司会の人が「ノー」って言う時のドラマチックな感じ、スマブラの実況が適当な名前を強調するの思い出して好きだわ。普通くん+99
Frontier246
And also having to ponder if every woman she encounters is actually a woman or a man with a really good wig!
草wwww それな!「お前は剣か堀か?」ってナオが道行く人に聞いて回るんかwww
ついでに出会う女全員が本当に女か、それとも超優秀なウィッグつけた男かって悩むのもセットやなww
ドラマチックすぎるやろ!2ちゃん+29
nofaxxspitintruflego
nao will be the sole reason im probably dropping the show q\_q shes so annoying even the funny bits arent funnying me smh
確かに。奈緒が原因で俺も視聴やめるかも…彼女うざすぎて笑えるシーンも全然笑えなくなっちゃったわ。普通くん+21
Ogg_26
Genuinely one of the worst written characters I've seen. I'm gonna try to keep going for Akiyama and the rest of the games, but god she is making it very very hard.
せやな、ワイもnaoはマジでクソキャラやと思うわ。Akiyamaやゲーム展開目当てでなんとか見続けるけど、あいつが邪魔すぎて辛いンゴwww2ちゃん+12
Empty_Aardvark_25
I don’t know if any other character has ever evoked such rage and disdain for another human being. I’m watching her and feeling justified in taking violent action. If good writing makes the viewer feel, than they’re doing a great job 😕
確かに。ここまで視聴者に怒りと嫌悪感を抱かせるキャラってなかなかいないよな。見てると暴力に走りたくなる気持ちも分かる。でも良い作品って感情を動かすもんだし、そういう意味ではよくできてるんだろうな😕普通くん+7
orange_b0i
Nah I don't agree
It's literally her character to be a dummy and "stupidly honest"
If anything the writer has done an awesome job
If being annoying was poor writing than Luffy is a poorly written character
いやワイはそう思わんわ
バカで「バカ正直」なのが彼女のキャラやろ
むしろ作者は素晴らしい仕事しとると思うわ
「うざい=悪いキャラ」ならルフィも悪いキャラになるやん2ちゃん+5
Ok-Crow-2713
its still so wild to me that this anime finally got made like a decade too late and its just been thrown out to die with no fanfare.
このアニメが実現したのが10年遅すぎた上に、何の盛り上がりもなく捨てられるように終わったのは今でも衝撃的だよ。普通くん+61
T3tr4d5
To be fair, the Japanese Liar Game social media account actually posted a lot and made lots of events. There are actually lots of creative marketing, such as the youtube video posted a couple weeks ago where they made a multiple days live stream of Nao and Akiyama's pov when stalking the teacher.
確かに、日本の公式SNSはかなり積極的に動いてたよな。特に数週前のYouTube配信、ナオとアキヤマが先生を尾行するPOVの数日間ライブ配信は、原作の心理戦を体感できる巧妙なマーケティング施策だった。ただ、配信時期が遅すぎたのは否めない。制作陣の熱意は伝わるが、タイミングのミスマッチが作品の死に繋がったという考察ができる。考察くん+43
Ok-Crow-2713
ahhh you're right im actually being kinda myopic and only viewing this with a western perspective, I think im just bummed this manga that i LOVVVVVVVVED as a teen isnt getting love
あー確かにそれなwww俺も完全に欧米視点でしか見てなかったわ笑 ティーン時代に超ハマったこの漫画が全然評価されてなくて凹んでたんだけど、お前の言う通りやなwwwwおじ+25
HolyDragSwd2500
There was a Spot the difference in the photo game
There are 24/25 different things to look for in the photo. Only found 16 out 24/25
It’s on Liargame subreddit.
「写真の中の間違い探しゲームがあってさ…24〜25個ある違いのうち、たった16個しか見つけられなかったんだ…! マジで悔しすぎる… Liar Gameのサブレでやってたんだけど、もう無理…ッ!」感情くん+12
Hour_Trade_3691
This comment made me laugh 😅
確かにそれな笑普通くん+11
Zolofteu
I only watched the Jdrama and never read the manga, and I'm shocked I could still remember everything (could not remember what I ate a few days ago but still remember the details about a Jdrama I watched more than a decade ago, the human's brain truly works in mysterious ways) about this episode.
I guess the Jdrama was pretty faithful to the manga then.
せやな、Jドラマ版しか見たことないけど今回のエピソード全部覚えてて草
数日前に食った飯は忘れるのに10年以上前のドラマの細部は覚えてるンゴ…人間の脳ってホンマ謎やわ
つーかJドラマが原作に忠実やったってことか2ちゃん+5
Ashteron
Bro asking about football vs baseball had a Mariners shirt. Mariners is a baseball team in One Outs.
「フットボールvs野球」って聞いてきた奴、マリナーズのシャツ着てたんだよな。マリナーズって『ONE OUTS』に出てくる野球チームだよね。普通くん+50
Frontier246
I'm a Motor Suns lifer myself.
ワイはMotor Suns一筋やわ。草2ちゃん+25
HolyDragSwd2500
BALLPARK DE TSUKAMAETE! Reference 👍
BALLPARK DE TSUKAMAETE!のリファレンスだ!👍 それな!感情くん+17
Emi_Ibarazakiii
The only baseball team I would ever follow!
(As long as Ruriko fills me with beer)
唯一応援する野球チームはこれだけだな!
(瑠璃子がビールを注いでくれる限りはね)普通くん+13
HolyDragSwd2500
Here here
Kanpai 🍻
それな!乾杯だ🍻
ルリコのビールが最高すぎるッ!感情くん+7
testthrowawayzz
I relate to the sleep deprived salaryman
確かに、寝不足のサラリーマンの気持ち分かりすぎるわ。普通くん+7
HolyDragSwd2500
Same Mangka after all
草、同じ原作者やんけwww2ちゃん+16
heyo-heya
Another of the creator’s work that I hope gets a proper full adaptation soon!!! Give my boy Tokuchi the MAPPA treatment please 😭
確かに!作者の別作品もちゃんとフルアニメ化してほしいよね。渡久地にMAPPAレベルの作画を!😭普通くん+7
HolyDragSwd2500
I’m also reading his other work : Kamoism ( Ducks leeks are poisonous)
それなッ!トウチくんにMAPPAの神アニメ化を頼む!!彼の作品は全部エモすぎる。カモイズムも読んでるけど、こっちも優勝すぎて泣ける…早く全部アニメ化してくれ〜ッ!感情くん+5
Malipit
Fun detail : the only question that wasn't praised by the game master is the one about ~~offense and defense~~ S and M
面白い細かいところ:ゲームマスターに褒められなかった質問はSとMについてのやつだけだったんだよね普通くん+42
Vahallen
Leaving the rest of the plot aside, would that contract really hold any power in court even with everyone correct names? Sounds bullshit
ちょっと待って他の話は置いとくとして、あの契約書って全員のフルネームが書いてあったとして本当に裁判で通用するの?無理すぎるッ!完全にデタラメ案件でしょ感情くん+40
Frontier246
Nao should ask her "lawyer" friend! I'm sure he would give great advice!
確かに、ナオに法律に詳しい友達に相談させればいいのにね!きっと名アドバイスくれるはず(笑)普通くん+73
Valatrias
原文
Not a lawyer, but I think it has a decent chance to hold up in court. Would even say that it has a decent chance to even hold person x accountable even though they signed with a false name.
Obviously it all depends on the country, lawyers and the mood of the judges as I am sure that there are decent arguments that make such a contract void (duress, very large amount of money, legality of the liar game overall, etc) but also valid (e.g. you only split winnings and do not personally lose money, upholding the contract serves the interest of all/most signees).
The reason I am saying that person x can be hold accountable in court would be that there are witnesses and evidence (fingerprint), that the person x was present and aware of the contents of the contract and purposely tried to deceive everyone (wrong signature with the intention of not upholding the contract). I mean imagine you purchase a car and use a false name when signing the contract with the intention of not paying. Every court would probably hold you accountable and give you additional punitive charges for acting maliciously.
ワイ弁護士じゃないけど、あの契約結構効力あると思うンゴwww
偽名でサインした奴も責任追及できるやろ。理由は証人と指紋の証拠があって、契約内容も把握してた上でわざと騙そうとしたからな。車買って偽名で契約して踏み倒そうとしたら、裁判所が責任追及してさらに罰則も追加されるのと同じや。2ちゃん+49
NevisYsbryd
It would hold under US law, at least, and would indeed the signer regardless of the name on the paper.
確かに!少なくとも米国法なら通用するし、署名者の名前がどうであれ本人を拘束するよね。マジで法律って細かいッ!感情くん+24
NevisYsbryd
Yes, and it would be legally binding on the person who signed it, not the person's who name was signed. Admitting this fraud publicly is an open and shut case and was profoundly stupid.
確かに、署名した本人には法的拘束力があるからね。公の場で詐欺を認めるのは完全に自爆だし、めちゃくちゃバカな行動だったと思う。普通くん+27
Emi_Ibarazakiii
原文
Why do you think it wouldn't hold?
It was basically "We'll win this together and split the money"...
I'm sure Lottery mass-players sign similar contracts all the time (groups who buy hundreds/thousands of lottery tickets for the big prizes).
And when a contract is a bit iffy, the court tends to side on "respecting the spirit of the contract" more than anything else I think.
So as long as the person signed it without being under duress and in full possession of their faculties, the judge would side on "That's the obvious thing they all believed in when they signed", more than "But I guess there's this loophole here that means he might not have to do it..."
(Or is this what you're getting at? You'd go for a "signed under duress" claim?)
確かに「全員の本名が記載されていれば法的に有効か」という疑問はもっともだ。ただ、この契約の本質は「一緒に勝って賞金を分け合う」という単純な合意で、宝くじのグループ購入で交わされる契約と同種のものだと思われる。裁判所は「契約の精神」を重視する傾向があり、強制や判断力の低下がなければ「署名時に全員が信じていた共通認識」を優先するはず。むしろ「強迫状態での署名」を主張する方が現実的かもしれないが、それも難しいだろう。考察くん+16
Genoscythe_
原文
It checks out, the all contracts being binding as a default unless they contradict some specific other existing laws, is a foundational legal principle that courts are allowed to interpret very broadly.
If anything, the artistic license that was taken here, is in the idea that the name on it being false, would simply dissolve the contract.
In pure principle, the oral contract between them was already valid from the moment they spoke up to express agreement with it, the signing itself is just a formality to have physical evidence for the agreement did happen. (after all as the saying goes, an oral contract is only worth the paper it is printed on).
But leaving your handwriting and fingerprint on a paper where you appear to be making an agreement in good faith, isn't voided by writing the wrong name on it. There is a reason why illiterate people are allowed to sign with an X, or that your personal signature is allowed to be just a squiggly line vaguely representing your surname or your initials: The important thing is that there is evidence that you chose to put pen to paper in an expression of your will, not that you spell out your full birth-certificate-approved name correctly.
確かに法的にはそうだよね。口頭契約も成立してるし、署名は証拠としての形式に過ぎない。間違った名前を書いても、自筆と指紋があれば契約は有効だ。署名がX印でも認められるのと同じで、重要なのは意思表示の証拠であって、正確な氏名の綴りじゃない。この作品の「偽名で契約無効」って設定は、かなり芸術的な脚色だと思う。普通くん+10
GoXDS
原文
there is even a concept of signature by mark. ie. you can literally sign by writing an X. the main point is having witnesses and intent. does depend on local laws though, like a notary might be necessary, and the witnesses may have to be third parties (so everyone signing wouldn't count). hell, verbal contracts can also be legally binding. they're just obviously much harder to prove without the appropriate measures
せやな、署名って実は「X」マークでも成立する概念なんやで。
肝心なのは証人と意思の有無や。まあ地域の法律次第で、公証人が必要になったり、証人は第三者じゃなきゃダメとかあるけどな。
つーか口頭契約だって法的に有効やし。ただ証明がクソ難しいだけやな。2ちゃん+8
HolyDragSwd2500
One Outs reference ❤️
Same Mangaka here
Mr X reveal is here.
One Outsのネタきた❤️
同じ原作者だね
Mr.Xの正体もここで明かされるんだ普通くん+29
GreenHydragon
Only recently learned of and watched One Outs. Absolutely great series
マジで!?ワンアウツ観たの最近なんだ!めっちゃ面白いよね、やばくね!?笑ギャル+12
Gloomy_Savings_7454
原文
Well, I didn’t see it coming that Hitomi was X. Yes, I thought she was an ally of X, but it never occurred to me that she was a man. Let’s see in the next episode what Akiyama’s reasoning is for changing his vote (because he’s definitely forced a tie, but I can’t imagine on what grounds).
Also, Nao, could you just keep quiet for once and not go telling people your plans? And to the lawyer, of all people, who treated her badly!!
ヒトミがXだったのは予想外だったな。確かにXの協力者だとは思ってたけど、彼女が男だとは全く考えなかった。次回、秋山が投票を変えた根拠(明らかに同票に持ち込んでるけど、どんな理屈でそうしたのか想像もつかない)を見せてくれるのを待とう。
それと、ナオ、たまには黙って計画を人に話すのをやめてくれないか?しかも、あんなに酷く扱ってきた弁護士にだぞ!考察くん+21
DugACCat
Yeah she still irks me, though I know she’s doing what she’s supposed to do for us, the audience. But her telling the whole business to the slimeball lawyer guy ticked me off. Then jibber-jabbing once she gets inside. She doesn’t have even the tiniest shred of ability to keep her cool. Sometimes I’ll find such qualities endearing, but I’m not feeling that here.
せやな、ヒトミがXやってのはワイも予想外やったわ。でもあの女、まだムカつくンゴwww 視聴者のために動いてるのは分かるんやけどさ。あのクソ弁護士に全部ベラベラ喋ったのはガチでイラついたわ。しかも中入ってからもペチャクチャ喋りまくりやん。冷静さっつーもんが微塵もないやん。こういうキャラ可愛く思う時もあるけど、今回は無理や。2ちゃん+13
kitaknows
I did some heavy sighs with how much information she was spilling, and had to attempt to comfort myself with the thought that Akiyama is able to predict how she is going to act and blab, and thus feeds her information strategically.
確かに彼女が情報をぺらぺら喋るシーンでは何度も深いため息が出たよ。ただ、秋山が彼女の行動パターンやおしゃべりを予測して、戦略的に情報を流しているという考察ができるんだ。つまり、彼女の不用意な発言すらも計算の内という伏線だと思われる。考察くん+6
Frontier246
原文
What do you get when you put six women, an old man, and a genius con artist together? You get an ad hoc team to hopefully win it all in Liar Game!
How can they all trust each other when there's always the potential for betrayal? Why, by way of an official contract! That'll hold everyone to their word lest they get sued! Don't underestimate the Japanese legal code! There's no way ANYONE could fool a contract!
Yeah, sunglasses guy is definitely sus, but does that automatically make him "X?" Hitomi seems to think so.
Round 1: "Which is better, Baseball or Soccer?" Honestly I almost want to see how Nao and Akiyama would vote if this wasn't a competition. Do they even follow sports?
Wow, by some miracle Nao lucked into the next round! RIP Ponytail and glasses girl, you will be avenged!
Round 2: "Are you an S or an M?" Mohawk dude freely admitting to being an S, huh? Poor naive Nao has no idea what they're even talking about but Akiyama does his level best to explain it in a way that doesn't freak her out. I wonder if Hitomi took her seriously when she said she was good either way?
(Is Akiyama an "S?" The way he sometimes strings along Nao for her own good...)
Should Nao follow her new gal pal Hitomi or her possible love interest Akiyama? She's determined to be a ride or die with Akiyama, but this might be one thing they can't do together! Especially when Nao loses Minority Rule!
Here's an Akiyama shower scene! Man is a vision!
Ugh, not the "lawyer" again. And he's still rubbing it in and mocking Nao who, despite losing, is contractually obligated to be there at the competition as the main character. And Nao still treats this guy like a normal acquaintance and not someone who completely screwed her over!
Dang, Hitomi went with the flashiest and sexiest outfit she could wear for the final round that's, fittingly, a question of whether you think you'll win or lose.
Nao, for the love of...don't be shouting out that you won before the final tally! Not when your new "gal pal" turns out to be...Yuji AKA "X" AKA DAGA OTOKO DA! Give me back my sexy supportive waifu!!! I feel as betrayed as Nao does now!
It's all going to come down to Akiyama's vote! There's got to be a reason he folded it as small possible.
女性6人、老人1人、天才詐欺師1人を集めたら何ができる? そう、LIAR GAMEで勝ち抜くための即席チームだよ!
いつ裏切られるかわからないのに、どうやってお互いを信頼するかって? もちろん正式な契約書で! 訴訟されない限り、みんな約束を守るんだ! 日本の法律を舐めちゃいけないぜ! 契約書を騙せるやつなんていないだろ!
そうだな、サングラスの男は確かに怪しいけど、それが自動的に「X」ってことにはならないだろ? ヒトミはそう思ってるみたいだけど。
第1ラウンド:「野球とサッカー、どっちがいい?」正直、これが競技じゃなかったらナオとアキヤマがどう投票するか見てみたい。彼らってスポーツとか見るのかな?
わあ、奇跡的にナオが次のラウンドに進んだ! ポニーテールとメガネの娘よ、安らかに眠れ、仇は取る!
第2ラウンド:「SかMか?」モヒカンのやつが堂々とSって認めてるのか。純粋なナオは何言ってるか全然わかってないけど、アキヤマが彼女を怖がらせないように必死に説明してる。ヒトミは「どっちでもいい」って言ったのを真に受けたのかな?
(アキヤマはSなのか? 彼が時々ナオを導くやり方って…)
ナオは新しい女友達のヒトミにつくべきか、それとも恋愛対象かもしれないアキヤマにつくべきか?普通くん+18
FLorianGran
Honestly you can't even blame Nao for this one, most people would get tripped up
まじでナオのこと責められなくない!?普通の人間ならみんな引っかかるよね笑ギャル+22
Frontier246
I'm left feeling betrayed and questioning my sexuality...
ウッ…これ、Naoのせいにはできないってマジでそれな。でも俺、裏切られた気分で自分の性癖疑い始めてるんだけど…ッ!感情くん+16
Emi_Ibarazakiii
A lot of that going around this season
確かに今期はそういうの多いよね普通くん+11
Railgun003
It's a trap!
罠だ!やっぱりそういうことかッ!感情くん+12
Emi_Ibarazakiii
原文
Well, to get myself a harem, why do you think?
Good thing they didn't have any "Oh sorry I want to win the whole prize for myself, I'm out" in the group!
So they signed a contract to make sure no one could pocket the money!
But there was a HUGE exploitable flaw with this contract (on top of the one we've seen in the episode), will come back to this later in the comment.
Everyone except your group members... Who are the only ones who really matter!
I would vote "They both suck" and find myself 100M in debt.
For some reason I always theorize more complex than it actually is, like when he said that, I thought "He knows she won't notice anything, so surely he's just trying to make the others to notice something in her', etc...
When she said that I thought "To the others, HE must look like the suspicious one"...
And perhaps for that reason, I thought HE might actually be X! (though it might have implied he did something 'evil' and so far it doesn't seem to be his style... Or he could've schemed with that woman).
But these suspicions didn't last long, because...
Well, I don't know if everyone caught on, but yeah, I think she made it rather obvious...
*She* spent the whole episode pointing the fingers away from her, calling herself a girl every 10 seconds...
*Hmmm, I wonder which person is X, but we know he's a man, and not a female girly girl like me!*
Also, almost all my suspects were in the other group, so when they all lost in round 1, it kinda made it even easier hah.
It's a shame, because DAMN!
What a waste
So the contract will be void...
**OR WILL IT?**
Obviously there's a reason why Akiyama wanted his paper to be revealed last, and it's as much for the game, as it is for us the viewers, I think...
He changed his vote, and he basically did all this KNOWING someone would betray them and change his vote, and pinpointed it to 'her', so by changing his vote as well he ensures the draw, and then they have to go again, knowing who the betrayer is...
But where do they go from there?
Well, they COULD join 3v1;
If they manage to get everyone to vote like they want, they'll always be 2:1, which means either X votes with the 2 (and the 1 wins), OR X votes with the 1 and it's a draw, and they can repeat as much as they want until they get a win. So X is guaranteed to lose.
But the problem is the money; So far the players are doing a little better than breaking even, and they were okay with this because starting from round 1, their odds were abyssmal...
But now, with 4 players left, they might eye the whole prize and decide that their share % of the pot is 1/4...
So doing it for a mere 40 million yen? When they think their expected share is 500 million?
So I think the only way this will work (both for the scheme, and thematically) is that... They won't be able to drop out;
They'll need to stay in so they can collect the full 2 billion to these pay these guys (and not the 1 billion they intended to split).
So they'll have to continue playing!
Oh, and I talked about the scheme I thought they were going for... I thought X made a second alliance behing their back; By telling Nao to always stare at 15, it gave her opportunities to talk to other people and all... So I thought she made a deal to lose on purpose to make someone else win, and THAT person would collect the money and split 50-50 with her!
The contract was about "splitting the prize money among them after they won", but it had nothing about splitting any other money.
If X loses and someone gives him 1 billion yen (or 500m yen if they drop out), he doesn't have to split it with anyone, it's all his.
So making 2 alliances could've ensure a LOT of money!
But as played: yeah, I think it'll be a draw, then they'll be forced to play again... I think my theory might not happen (because it might be too easy/boring for a 'high stakes game' plot), so what I think MIGHT happen is that they might be forced to play for real, i.e. try to guess what the others will answer and all that!
【ハーレム作るためやろ、そらそうや】
【誰も「ワイが全部勝ち取るわ」って抜けなかったのは良かったな】
【金を横領させない契約書かせてるんか】
【でもこの契約、エピソードで見た穴以外にもでかい欠陥あったンゴ…後で書くわ】
【グループメンバー以外は関係ない!肝心なのは仲間だけや】
「どっちもクソ」に投票して借金1億背負いたいわ
【ワイはいつも複雑に考えすぎるんよ。彼が「彼女は気づかん」って言った時、「他のメンバーに彼女の違和感を気づかせようとしてる」とか思ったわ】
【彼女が言った時は「他の連中から見たら、こいつが怪しく見えるやろな」って】
【だから逆に彼がXなんちゃうかって思ったンゴ(悪事っぽいけど今のところ彼のキャラじゃないし…あの女と共謀してる可能性も)】
【でもすぐ疑いは消えたわ。なぜなら…】
【みんな気づいたか分からんけど、彼女は結構露骨やったやん】
【彼女、ずっと自分に疑いが向かんように指差して、10秒ごとに「私女の子だし!」って言いまくってた】
【「うーん、Xって誰やろ?男って言われてるけど、私みたいな可愛い女の子じゃないよね!」ってな】
【しかもワイの疑ってた連中はほぼ別グループやったから、1回戦で全滅した時はさらに楽になったわ2ちゃん+10
NaamiNyree
原文
I know Im late to this and no one will read this comment anyway but as someone who loves the "death game" genre and has watched most of them (both anime and live action), Im incredibly mixed about this show (leaning towards negative). In large part because yes, Nao is one of the worst characters Ive had the displeasure of watching. She isnt even a "character", she is caricature of a naive person done to such an extreme degree it becomes impossible to take her seriously.
Im facepalming and sighing every time she opens her mouth, like holy shit. When you think it couldnt possibly get any worse, she somehow becomes even more cringe, like at the end when she starts "celebrating" loudly and telling everyone they were part of a team. Just unbelievable. I can only imagine she had to have been written on purpose to be this infuriating because its not something you do by chance.
Honestly Akiyama is keeping the whole show afloat for me, just barely. He seems to be the only person with a brain in the whole thing. If it werent for him I would have dropped this already. The thing is the potential is there. I thought the concept of the minority rule game was really cool and the rehearsal question in particular was a great way to introduce it, even if obvious that "No" would win because most guys would look at women being the minority and vote Yes.
But then, the show completely throws that away and none of the following questions mattered whatsoever. Its all about this specific game of forming teams rather than actually trying to outsmart people based on real questions, which was way more fun.
Even with all that though, I do want to see where it goes. Im very curious about why Akiyama folded the paper since it has no impact on the result anyway, and what plan he will come up with to win the game after the inevitable 2-2 draw. "Hitomi" outing himself like that at the end ensures no one will trust him going forward which introduces an interesting angle for the rematch.
Anyway yeah, gonna keep going and try to survive through the Nao cringe. I hope by the end of the show Ill look back and feel it was worth sitting through.
今さらだけど、もう誰も読まないだろうけど、「デスゲーム」ジャンルが大好きでほぼ全部(アニメ・実写両方)観てきた身としては、この作品にはかなり複雑な気持ち(どちらかと言うとネガティブ寄り)なんだよな。大きな理由は、ナオが今まで観てきた中でも最悪クラスのキャラだから。彼女は「キャラクター」ですらなくて、純真な人の戯画化を極限まで押し進めただけで、真面目に受け止めるのが不可能になってる。
彼女が口を開くたびに頭を抱えてため息が出るんだが、マジで信じられない。これ以上酷くなりようがないと思ったら、さらに気まずくなる。例えば終盤で大声で「祝い」始めて、全員がチームだったって言い出すシーン。本当に信じられない。あれは意図的にイライラさせるよう書かれたとしか思えない、偶然できるレベルじゃないからな。
正直、秋山がかろうじて作品を支えてる。彼だけがまともな思考を持つキャラで、彼がいなかったらもう視聴を切ってた。可能性はあるんだよ。少数決ゲームのコンセプトはすごく面白いと思ったし、特に練習問題は導入として秀逸だった。ほとんどの男が女性が少数派だと見て「いいえ」に投票するから、「ノー」が勝つのは明白だけどな。
でもその後、作品はそれを完全に投げ捨てて、その後の質問はどれも意味を成さなかった。本当の質問で頭脳戦をするより、チーム編成のゲームに全部注力考察くん+9
Latter-Air2742
I swear you could show her a giant human blender and tell her "it's okay, you'll make it for sure" and she would walk, no, run towards the bender. Wondering why her body is getting chopped to pieces.
草マジで言えてるわwww
「大丈夫、絶対成功するよ」って言われたら、ブレンダーの中に走って突っ込んでくタイプやな。んで「なんで体がバラバラになるんや…」って本気で疑問に思ってそう。2ちゃん+8
ElliotAlderson2024
Nao is a bit thick.
確かに、直はちょっと鈍いよね。普通くん+5
BubblyCrash
We're in the endgame now. Fukunaga/Hitomi was sly and did a good job playing the game and setting up for victory. It'll be interesting to see what Akiyama has prepared, in the next episode.
もう終盤やな。福永/瞳の狡猾な立ち回りはガチで上手かったわ、勝利への布石をちゃんと打ってる。次回、秋山が何仕込んでるか気になりすぎるンゴwww2ちゃん+7
NevisYsbryd
Yeah, uh, that guy just outed himself as having stolen the money outside of the game and thus not subject to the usual waiver against theft. Also, signing with a fake signature is still legally binding, besides a fraud case.
あの男、ゲーム外で金を盗んだって自白しちゃったじゃん。つまり通常の窃盗免責の対象外ってことだよ。あと偽名でサインしても法的には有効だし、詐欺罪にもなるんだよね。普通くん+6
magnumcyclonex
The signature/name is fake, but the thumbprint is real, right?
それな!サインは偽物でも、拇印は本物ってわけか!エモすぎるッ!感情くん+12
abandoned_idol
"I was wearing a prosthetic thumb!"
**Machiavellian laugh**
「義手の親指を装着してたんだよ!」
**策略的な笑い**普通くん+15
polycontrale
The ending is just hilarious. Aren't you celebrating a little too soon? What could possibly go wrong.
この終わり方ウケるんだけど笑 祝うの早すぎない?何が起こるか分かんないのに ヤバすぎるッ!感情くん+8
NoHead1715
原文
This episode really made it too obvious that Hitomi was X. But I think that's where the trick may lie. It really looks like (s)he was teamed up with 15 in the way that Akiyama was teamed up with Nao, except Akiyama did a possibly riskier move by having Nao out before the final 4. But it's paying off because now he's truly the minority in the final 4 and will have to rely on the question to ensure he gets the final spot. I foresee we might have another tied round if Akiyama does not get chosen to ask the final question, but if he gets lucky, the next round should seal the deal. So the question would be, what question must he ask to ensure he's in the minority?
今回の話でヒトミがXってのは流石にバレバレやったな。でもそこが逆に罠かもしれへん。アキヤマがナオと組んでたみたいに、ヒトミと15が組んでる感じやな。ただアキヤマはナオを先に脱落させてる分リスキーやったけどな。でも今の状況見る限りその作戦が効いてるわ。最終4人でアキヤマが少数派になってて、残り1枠を確実に取るには質問に頼るしかない。もしアキヤマが最終質問を任されへんかったらまた引き分けになるかもやけど、運良く当たれば次で決まりやろ。問題は、少数派になれる確実な質問内容やな。2ちゃん+7
ActiveAd4980
I get it, it's her thing, but Noa is annoying.
わかるけど、ノアってちょっとウザいんだよな。それが彼女の特徴ってのは理解してるんだけどさ。普通くん+8
HolyDragSwd2500
I’m enjoying reading everyone theories.
みんなの考察読むの楽しいじゃん!やばくね?ギャル+7
magnumcyclonex
原文
It's obvious her character and the situation where she was even allowed back in was written to make it dramatic. While it was stated they don't have an incentive to rig the game (the financial benefits are already in the house's favor), generally in other fictional works, or even in real life competitions, the eliminated don't have much or any say in the proceedings of the remaining game,
Her blurting out the plan could have potentially alerted the game officials to stop the game, if collusion was not allowed. Her being there to witness the live reveal of the votes with her reactions led to the blonde lady announcing her true plans and self, which she might not have done if Nao wasn't there. At that point, the game is still ongoing, because now with the extra information that the blonde is X, Akiyama and others will proceed with different plans in mind.
彼女のキャラクターと、再び参加を許された状況は明らかにドラマチックにするために書かれてるよね。確かにゲームを操作するインセンティブはないって言われてる(金銭的な利点は既にハウス側にあるから)けど、他のフィクション作品や現実の競技でも、脱落者は残りのゲーム進行にほとんど関与できないのが普通だし。
もし共謀が禁止されてたら、彼女が計画を漏らしたことでゲーム運営が試合を止める可能性もあった。彼女が投票の公開をその場で見てリアクションしたからこそ、金髪の女性が本当の計画と正体を明かしたんだよね。直が居なかったら彼女はそれをしなかったかもしれない。その時点でゲームはまだ進行中で、金髪がXだという追加情報を得た秋山たちは別の計画で動くことになる。普通くん+5
ObvsThrowaway5120
I had guessed there might have been one snake amongst the team. That plan was a huge gamble to begin with. I did not expect the “Hitomi” reveal that they’re female presenting *and* X though. Keen to see what comes next.
草、まさかチームに一匹蛇がいるとは思ってたンゴwww
でも「ヒトミ」が女装しててしかもXだったのは予想外やったわ
次どうなるかガチで気になる2ちゃん+5
Arzhart
原文
Well, Akiyama definitely voted "yes", so it'll be a draw and it'll have another voting.
OR, Akiyama voted "yes", but it wasn't counted, so that guy, having already outed himself, may be disqualified (I don't know why, but maybe there is a rule that he broke like idk stealing the money outside of the game). If that's the case, when they open Akiyama's vote, he will be the minority.
I think the option to have a draw is better for the story so the number 15 isn't just a background character. But the second option would be big brain from akiyama
秋山は確実に「賛成」に投票してるから、引き分けでもう一回投票になるパターンだな。
もしくは、秋山の票が無効扱いになって、自ら正体を明かしたあの男が失格になるかも(理由はわからんけど、ゲーム外で金を盗んだとかルール違反があるんだろう)。その場合、秋山の票が開かれたら少数派になる。
個人的には引き分けルートの方が15番がただの背景キャラにならなくてストーリー的に良いと思う。でも後者の展開なら秋山の天才プレイって感じだな。普通くん+5
Frontier246
*Tomodachi Game?*
トモダチゲーム!?それエモすぎるッ!感情くん+14
tweetthebirdy
Are you thinking of Tomodachi Game by any chance?
それってトモダチゲームの話か?ガチで草2ちゃん+7
HolyDragSwd2500
Definitely Tomodachi Game
確かにトモダチゲームだね普通くん+6
KeyLimeGuy69
The female MC in this is sooooo stupid. Like the show though.
この女主人公まじでバカすぎじゃね!?笑 でも作品自体は好きなんだけど〜ギャル+5