本好きの下剋上 領主の養女

AutoLovepon
ゲオルギーネの来訪
夏の終わり。ジルヴェスターの姉で、アーレンスバッハの第一夫人・ゲオルギーネが叔父である前神殿長のお墓参りにやってくる。その真意は、旧ヴェローニカ派の貴族と交流を深めることだとフェルディナンドは言う。
エピソードサムネイル
SweetDemotion123
原文
It's great seeing the Harrisen scenes animated after they've shown them in the PV. They really directed it like an action scene from a shonen. You'd expect Rozemyne's hit to connect (Ferdinand had no idea this is a weapon) but not only did he block her, he disarmed her and reversed the attack perfectly lmao It was also interesting to see the broader context of Sylvester's family that we've been hinted about the entire season. Georgine seems both competent and, as Elvira notes, wronged by Sylvester's dad pretty roughly. She also managed to rise in the ranks of the greater duchy from 3rd to 1st wife, which aligns with her being a "very hard worker" / schemer. All in all the episode shows again Wilfried is simply unprepared for noble society and its many schemes. He rushed towards the other kids even though he was warned, diverted from the script talking to Georgine, etc. Meanwhile Rozemyne who had far less time in noble society already internalized the concept of being guarded and not giving your rivals any openings (post-credits scenes), despite Ferdinand still berating her as "carefree"... She still makes mistakes but she's already more socially-aware than Wilfried.
ハリセン(ハリッセン?)のシーンがPVの後でアニメ化されたのは最高だね。まるで少年漫画のアクションシーンみたいな演出だった。ロゼマインの一撃が当たると思いきや、フェルディナンドは防いだ上に武器を奪って完璧に反撃してたw シルヴェスター家の背景も今季ずっと示唆されてたのが見られて面白かった。ゲオルギーネは有能そうだし、エルヴィーラが言うようにシルヴェスターの父にかなり酷い扱いを受けたっぽい。大領地で3番目から1番目の妻に昇格したのも「努力家」兼策士って感じで納得。今回の話でもヴィルフリートが貴族社会の策謀に全く準備できてないのが分かるね。警告されてたのに他の子供たちに突っ込んだり、台本を外れてゲオルギーネと話したり。一方ロゼマインは貴族社会での経験がずっと短いのに、既に警戒して敵に隙を見せない概念を身につけてる(ED後シーン)。フェルディナンドにはまだ「のんき」って叱られてるけど、それでもヴィルフリートよりずっと社交的に賢いと思う。普通くん
Skullzans
原文
It's great seeing the Harrisen scenes animated after they've shown them in the PV. They really directed it like an action scene from a shonen. You'd expect Rozemyne's hit to connect (Ferdinand had no idea this is a weapon) but not only did he block her, he disarmed her and reversed the attack perfectly lmao This scene was brilliant, and showcases Ferdinand's relationship with Rosemyne perfectly . The two act like children with one another sometimes, but Ferdinand is almost always annoyingly right despite his smugness. Had he not been quite close, that would've been a scolding rather than a playful hit-you-back. It was also interesting to see the broader context of Sylvester's family that we've been hinted about the entire season. Georgine seems both competent and, as Elvira notes, wronged by Sylvester's dad pretty roughly. She also managed to rise in the ranks of the greater duchy from 3rd to 1st wife, which aligns with her being a "very hard worker" / schemer. What I find very interesting was her declining to hear rumors and wanting to visit, just to smile as she saw mother in jail. That woman is strange because those feel like they Could indicate that she's not pure evil? Like it seems like they are setting up a faux-antagonist in her. Though I could easily be wrong and it could just be that she's plotting revenge.
ハリセンシーンがPVの後でアニメ化されたのマジで最高やん。完全に少年漫画のアクションシーンみたいな演出で草。ローゼマインの一撃が当たると思いきや、フェルディナンドがブロックしただけでなく武器を奪って完璧に反撃し返すとかwww このシーン天才やわ、フェルディナンドとローゼマインの関係性完璧に表現しとる。二人で子供みたいにじゃれ合うことあるけど、フェルディナンドはいつもムカつくほど正しいんよな。もし彼がもっと遠い関係やったら、遊びの反撃じゃなくて説教になってたやろな。 シルヴェスター家の全体像が見えたのも面白かったわ、今シーズンずっと匂わせてたやん。ゲオルギーネは有能そうやし、エルヴィーラが言うようにシルヴェスターの父親にかなり酷い扱い受けたっぽい。それに大領地の第三夫人から第一夫人に昇格したって、彼女が「超努力家」兼策略家ってのに合致するわ。一番興味深いんは、噂を聞くのを断って訪問を希望したのに、牢獄の母を見て微笑んだことやな。あの女なんか変やねん、純粋な悪じゃない可能性を示唆しとる?偽の敵役として設定してるように見えるわ。まあ間違ってる可能性もあるけど、単に復讐を企ててるだけかもしれんしな。2ちゃん
SweetDemotion123
原文
The show attempts to convey Georgine is a complex character. You had a scene where Elvira flat-out sympethizes with her and says she was wronged by their world's standards, or at the very least gotten the short end of the stick. Persumably, that decision was both of the late archduke and Veronica, who we know actually really loves Sylvester and Wilfried. So there's probably no love lost between Georgine and her mom, who in her mind backstabbed her for her young and brash brother. And while Ferdinand and Sylvester treat her visit as 100% ploy, we see she actually did care for the previous high bishop. Rozemyne read their letters and they weren't filled with conspiracy but actual supportive conversations. However, even if she is right to be furious and actually has been wronged, it still puts her in a collision course with both Sylvester and Rozemyne, which the show flat out tells us.
この作品はゲオルギーネを複雑な人物として描こうとしているという考察ができる。エルヴィーラが彼女に共感し、この世界の基準では不当に扱われたと語るシーンがあった。おそらく先代領主とヴェロニカの両方がそう決めたのだろう。ヴェロニカはシルヴェスターとヴィルフリートを本当に愛していた。ゆえにゲオルギーネと母の間に愛は残っていない。彼女からすれば、若く未熟な弟のために自分を裏切ったのだ。フェルディナンドとシルヴェスターは訪問を策略と見なすが、彼女が先代の神官長を実際に気にかけていたことが分かる。ロゼマインが手紙を読むと、陰謀ではなく支援の会話だった。しかし怒りが正当でも、シルヴェスターとロゼマインとの衝突は避けられないと作品は明示している。考察くん
shad79
So there's probably no love lost between Georgine and her mom, who in her mind backstabbed her for her young and brash brother. It's quite obvious that's the case. Otherwise, Georgine wouldn't have smirked like that if she still loved Veronica as her mother.
我が推測では、ゲオルギーネとその母の間には、もはや愛は微塵も残っておらぬ。母は若く血気盛んな弟のために、我が娘を裏切ったのだ。ゆえにゲオルギーネがヴェロニカを母と慕う心を捨て去った証拠に、あの不敵な笑みを浮かべたのだろう。中二病
Atharaphelun
She essentially just wanted to look at her mother's lowest state and gloat behind her back.
彼女は結局、母親の一番みっともない姿を見て、陰でほくそ笑みたかっただけなんだよね。普通くん
drunkenvalley
My personal vibecheck is that Georgine is spiteful and holds grudges, and this is more apparent than ever when it, to me, seems she only went to see her mother to gloat. Her mother, who failed her in giving the aub to her brother instead, and married her away as a "mere" third bride. She, like Sylvester, is almost certainly a target of her spite.
ワイの感想やとゲオルギーネは執念深くて根に持つタイプやな。母親に会いに行ったのもマウント取りたかっただけにしか見えんわ。オーブを兄にやられて「三番目の妻」で嫁がされた恨み、シルヴェスター同様に標的にしとるやろな。2ちゃん
discuss-not-concuss
got the same gloating vibe, to me it seems more like a “hah, you made your son the Aub and this is what he does to you” look
同じような勝ち誇った感じがする。俺には「はは、息子をアウブにしたけど、彼がお前にこうしてるぞ」って顔に見えるな普通くん
EXusiai99
walks in to the noble equivalent of a supermax prison aura farms your mother without saying a single word
貴族界のスーパーマックス刑務所みたいなとこに颯爽と入ってきて、一言も発さずに母ちゃんのオーラをファームしまくったわwwwwおじ
Albireookami
be fair, she was not allowed to say a single word.
公平に言うと、彼女は一言も話すことを許されていなかったんだよね。普通くん
kalirion
And she was perfectly fine with it.
そして彼女はそれを全く気にしていなかった。感情くん
shad79
Georgine is spiteful and holds grudges It was quite obvious in this episode . For instance, when Rozemyne tried to elevate Sylvester by mentioning to Georgine that he had appointed an excellent guardian like Ferdinand to her, Georgine immediately started spitefully berating him. Another example was the smirk she gave Veronica when she was leaving her room.
ゲオルギーネは意地悪で根に持つタイプなのが今回の話ではっきりしてたね。例えば、ロゼマインがフェルディナンドみたいな優秀な保護者をつけてくれたとシルヴェスターを上げようとしたら、ゲオルギーネはすぐに彼を憎々しげに罵り始めた。あと、ヴェロニカの部屋を出る時にニヤリとしてたのもそうだね。普通くん
DugACCat
I had some similar thoughts. They did a good job making her seem very shrewd, dangerous, but also mysterious with as yet uncertain motives, though being linked to the faction that means Rosemyne harm is worrying.
同じような考察をしてたんだよな。彼女を非常に shrewd で危険、かつまだ動機が不明な謎めいた存在として描くのは上手かったと思われる。ただ、Rosemyne に危害を加える派閥と繋がっている点は懸念材料だという考察ができる。考察くん
CelioHogane
The paper fan scene also is great to show the contrast. Ferdinand Smiling (Has to put with this shit) vs Ferdinand Smiling (He can annoy Rosemain)
紙扇のシーンも対比やばくない!?フェルディナンド(このクソ忙しいのに…)の笑顔 vs フェルディナンド(ローゼマインを困らせられるw)の笑顔てか神ギャル
PerfectBeige
You'd expect Rozemyne's hit to connect (Ferdinand had no idea this is a weapon) but not only did he block her, he disarmed her and reversed the attack perfectly lmao Ehrenfest's strongest knight vs. coughing baby fainting isekaijin
フェルディナンドがこれ武器って知らんかったのに、ちゃんと受け止めたうえに武器奪って反撃返してて草www エーレンフェスト最強騎士vs咳き込んで気絶する異世界人www2ちゃん
hibikir_40k
Not just her dad. Rhyarda tells us that Georgine was "such a hard worker", with regret. We've seen on Ferdinand flashback how badly he was treated by Veronica. Chances that Veronica was all-in in treating her like shit, demanding of her more than she demanded of Sylvester, or Wilfried... 1000%
彼女の父親だけじゃないんだよな。リヒャルダが「あんなに努力家だったのに」と悔しさを滲ませて語ってたのが考察ポイント。フェルディナンドの回想でヴェロニカにどれだけ酷く扱われてたか描かれてたよな。ヴェロニカがゲオルギーネを徹底的に虐げて、シルヴェスターやヴィルフリート以上に過剰な要求を課してた可能性……1000%あるわ。考察くん
jujutsu-die-sen
I wonder how Georgine feels about Rosemyne given that this dynamic is being repeated. Rosemyne is much more capable than Wilfred and yet he is clearly still favored to become the next Aub. Clear example is the end scene when they talk about marrying Rosemyne and Wilfred for HIS benefit.
ゲオルギーネはロゼマイン見てどう思っとるんやろな、同じ構図やんけ。ロゼマインの方がヴィルフリートより有能なのに次期領主はヴィルフリートやろ。最後のシーンとか露骨やん、ヴィルフリートの「ため」に結婚とか言うとるし草2ちゃん
GonIsABadFriend
Rosemyne is an adult btw, let’s not carelessly compare her to an actual child lol I think Georgine compared him to his dad to disarm him and it worked exactly as it should for a young boy that looks up to his dad.
ロゼマインは成人してるんだよな。実際の子供と安易に比較するのは控えよう。ゲオルギーネが彼を父親と重ねたのは、動揺させるための策略だろう。父親を慕う少年に対して、狙い通りに機能したという考察ができる。考察くん
Albireookami
She has memories of an adult, which is a very different thing than actually being an adult, as her body is in no way even close to being the developed body of an adult.
彼女は大人の記憶を持っているけど、実際に大人であるのとは全然違うんだよね。体は大人の体には程遠いわけだし。普通くん
GonIsABadFriend
What are we if not an accumulation of our memories and experiences? Her young, fragile body has little to do with her ability to adapt to Noble society compared to Wilfred, which is our current context. She is not a child, mentally. Wilfred is.
記憶と経験の積み重ねが俺たちだろ? 彼女の若くて華奢な体と貴族社会への適応力はあんま関係ないンゴ、ウィルフレッドと比べたらな。精神的には彼女は子供じゃない、ウィルフレッドの方が子供や。2ちゃん
Albireookami
She very much is a child mentally, she has the hormonal swings and underdeveloped body of a child. She will moodswing, she is wiser than her years, but she still acts her age more than often enough.
彼女は精神的には完全に子どもだよ。ホルモンの変動もあって体も未発達。気分の浮き沈みもあるし、年齢以上に賢いけど、それでも年相応の行動をよくしてる。普通くん
GonIsABadFriend
原文
No she’s not and you admit it yourself, “she is wiser than her years” I’d hate to hear your opinion of Rudeus. Anyone that has 20+ years of memories and experiences is by all intents and purposes, mentally an adult. She exhibits child-like behavior but her originally personality is quite playful to begin with. She understands complex processes and has the wherewithal to build them from scratch in a medieval world. Myne also exhibits critical thinking (outside of book-related reacts). There is no way we are comparing all of this to an actual child in Wilfred.
いや違うやろ、自分で「年齢の割に賢い」って認めとるやんけ。Rudeusの意見とか聞きたくもないわ。20年以上の記憶と経験がある奴は、事実上精神的に大人や。子供っぽい行動もするけど元から遊び心ある性格やし。複雑な工程を理解して中世の世界で一から作れるんやぞ。Myneも本関連以外は批判的思考しとる。これをWilfredみたいな実際の子供と比べるとかありえんわ。2ちゃん
Albireookami
原文
It comes that way because the concept of reincarnation used by the writer is not "reborn as that person" she was born as myne, and her memories managed to resurface due to the devouring, she is literally a childs body with an adults memories. The previous life was 20 years so much more life experience that it drowned out and overwrote the memories of the 5 year old Myne. This is how the writer wrote this particular type of reincarnation. It's not so much subplanted a person as a child, more so the child unlocked a preivous life's memory and it was so overwhelming they merged with a lean towards the previous life.
転生の解釈が「別人として生まれ変わる」じゃなくて、マインとして生まれて、蝕みで前世の記憶が蘇ったんだよね。つまり子供の体に大人の記憶。前世20年分の経験が5歳のマインの記憶を上書きした感じ。人格を乗っ取ったというより、子供が前世の記憶を解放して、それが強すぎて前世寄りに統合されたんだと思う。普通くん
Lulukassu
Her brain and biochemistry are literally that of a child. She has memories of life as an adult, but that doesn't exactly give her the mind of an adult
彼女の脳と生化学はまじで子供そのものじゃん!大人の記憶はあるけど、それが大人の精神になるわけじゃないんだよね笑ギャル
NevisYsbryd
She has the memories of an especially sheltered and immature barely-young-adult, at that.
彼女は特に世間知らずで未熟な、かろうじて成人したばかりの記憶を持ってるんだよね。普通くん
GonIsABadFriend
原文
I ask again, what are we if not the accumulation of memories and experiences? In the original context I’m simply saying it’s unfair to compare Myne and Wilfred. Myne has a major advantage of having an adult’s memories. She may lack total impulse control but she for sure has more than the average child. She is clearly far more mature than the average child given the responsibilities she has had to accept. I’ve never read what the author said in an Q&A/manga extra. I’ll follow their lead even if I don’t really agree with the concept fully. Regardless, comparing Myne to any other child is not a fair comparison.
また言うけど、記憶と経験の積み重ねこそが人間やろ?元の文脈ではマインとヴィルフリートを比べるのは不公平って言いたいだけや。マインは大人の記憶持っとる時点でズルいンゴ。衝動制御は完璧やないけど普通の子供よりマシやし、責任負うとるから明らかに大人びとる。作者のQ&Aや漫画のおまけは読んだことないわ。完全には納得しとらんけど従うで。とにかくマインを他の子供と比べるのはアカン。2ちゃん
kalirion
原文
I ask again, what are we if not the accumulation of memories and experiences? It's the nature vs nurture thing. The brain's composition, the various hormones - these are 100% nature. Just having someone's memories and experiences does not make you the same person. A child's undeveloped brain will remain a child's undeveloped brain no matter what past life memories and experiences you stuff it with.
また言うけど、記憶と経験の積み重ね以外に俺たちって何なんだ?これって先天と後天の問題だよね。脳の構造やホルモンは100%先天の要素。誰かの記憶と経験を持ってても同じ人間にはならない。子供の未発達な脳は、どんな前世の記憶を詰め込んでも未発達なままだよ。普通くん
GonIsABadFriend
原文
I don’t really think that’s true and it’s okay to disagree, this is a story of fiction. It is impossible to know the actual nuerochemistry and brain development of an individual that has more memories in their psyche than the natural order. I think we humans are a culmination of natural personality, our lived experiences and eventually the memories that make us. To say 20+ years of memories being uploaded/taking over a person has no effect on their actual brain seems ridiculous. It clearly shows in her behavior and demeanor. In this context I am comparing Myne to Wilfred and how unfair it is to hold him to the same standard due to their circumstances.
せやな、意見が違うのはええんやで。これはフィクションやし。自然の摂理を超えた記憶を持つ人間の脳の神経化学なんて分からんやろ。人間は元々の性格+経験+記憶の集積や。20年以上の記憶が上書きされたら脳に影響ないとか逆に無理あるわ。実際マイネの言動に表れとるやん。ウィルフレッドと同基準で比べるのは不公平やと思うンゴ2ちゃん
Albireookami
I don’t really think that’s true and it’s okay to disagree "I ignore science and think its fine to think that is a solid stance to have"
それはちょっと違うと思うし、意見が違ってもいいんだよ。「科学を無視して、それが妥当な立場だと思うのは別にいい」ってのはさ。普通くん
GonIsABadFriend
How is it ignoring science? Show me the research that has a child’s brain implanted with 20+ years of memories from a more advanced society? Don’t be silly
科学無視とか言うけどどこがやねん?進んだ社会の20年以上の記憶を子供の脳に移植する研究でもあんのか?アホ言うなや2ちゃん
kalirion
I'm not saying that it has no effect, both nature and nurture make up a person, but you seem to say that it's all nurture but no nature. She may have an adult's memories, but she is definitely not an adult.
効果がないとは言わないよ。生まれと育ちの両方で人は作られる。でも君は全部育ちで生まれはないみたいに言ってる。大人の記憶はあっても、彼女は絶対に大人じゃない。普通くん
Knofbath
Hormones are a large part of how you think and act. Your brain is processing thousands of invisible cues, which manifests as a "feeling". As someone with life experience, you could suppress some of those mood swings. But not all of them, and not reliably.
ホルモンって思考と行動の大部分を決めとるんやで。脳は何千もの見えん手がかりを処理しとって、それが「感情」として現れるンゴ。人生経験積んだ人間ならある程度は感情の起伏を抑えられるやろけど、全部は無理やし、安定もせんわ。2ちゃん
AuroraFinem
原文
I loved when Ferdinand gave her the fan at the end and just said “Do it!” Lmao. This episode was honestly one of the better ones. I also hate that the first thing they jumped to after seeing how woefully incapable Wilfred is, was to make sure Myne was with him and suggest (privately) they get married. Like, I know she doesn’t really want to be the next Aub but it doesn’t bode well for me when merit is so important to this worlds upper society. They literally have the Aub adopt anyone who shows significant promise to make sure the next Aub is the most capable one with the most mana and then snub the most capable person with the most mana by having her marry someone incapable to prop them up?
フェルディナンドが最後に団扇を渡して「やれ!」って言ったの最高だった。今回の話はかなり良かった方だね。ただ、ヴィルフリートの無能さを見た直後に、真っ先にマインを彼とくっつけて結婚させようと画策したのは嫌だな。マインが次期Aubを望んでないのは分かるけど、実力が重視される貴族社会でこれは不安だわ。有望な人をAubが養子にして次期Aubを最も有能で魔力の多い者にするのに、最も有能で魔力の多い彼女を無能な相手に嫁がせて支えさせるって矛盾してるじゃん。普通くん
SweetDemotion123
原文
They literally have the Aub adopt anyone who shows significant promise to make sure the next Aub is the most capable one with the most mana That is not why they adopted RM, not officially, and not in-secret. The official reason is because she's a saint-like figure touched by god, the Saint of Ehrnfest, and that adopting her will give her the position advance printing, a duchy-wide industry priority only she can lead. The secret reason is because she's an unholy isekaid abomination that needs to be closely watched and hopefully steered for good and not total upheaval. None of these two reasons are what you wrote. In fact, Wilfried is the declared heir and this position in uncontested. Syvester-Georgine feuds over inheritence is exactly why Sylvester wanted to avoid this situation.
エーレンフェストの領主は優秀な人材を養子にするってのは公式でも秘密でもないわ。公式にはロゼマは神に触れた聖女で、養子にすれば印刷業という領主領全体の産業を任せられるから。秘密の理由は彼女が異世界から来たヤバい存在で監視が必要だからや。ヴィルフリートが後継者で異論なし。シルヴェスターが養子縁組した理由はそれちゃうで。2ちゃん
AuroraFinem
原文
They’ve talked repeatedly about how the Aub adopts every noble child with a large amount of mana to become ducal candidates and that Myne is a ducal candidate because of that. If it were just the printing industry and keeping an eye on her they would have just kept her as an adoptive high nobles daughter, not the Aub himself. The current Aub is the only one that broke tradition by declaring Wilfred as heir apparent early because the current Aub didn’t like that he was competing against siblings when he was a candidate. It’s also been noted multiple times that it isn’t a sure thing if he doesn’t meet expectations. There were multiple episodes specifically saying that he would be replaced if he didn’t get his shit together. Yes, I’m aware that Ferdinand is concerned about her past memories and needs to keep a closer eye on her and yes the Aub is interested in her printing industry in hopes that it will improve the duchy’s standing and influence, but neither of those things change the fact that the aristocracy and political leadership in this world are entirely governed by mana capacity and merit and that these are the standard customs for ducal candidacy which Wilfred lacks. Edit: It’s also weird because just a couple episodes ago they talked about her marrying Ferdinand because of how important matching mana capacity is for mating and there is zero chance Wilfred will come near Myne’s.
まあそういうもんだよな。アウブは魔力が多い貴族の子を養子にして候補にするのが通例で、マインもその一人だ。印刷業と監視だけなら上級貴族の養女で済ませた話。現アウブが慣例破ってヴィルフリートを早々に後継にしただけの話だし、期待に応えられなきゃ交代という描写も何度もあった。魔力と実績が全ての世界で、ヴィルフリートにはそれが欠けてる。あと数話前の魔力相性の話を考えると、マインとの結婚はまず無理だろうな。ドライおじ
SweetDemotion123
原文
They’ve talked repeatedly about how the Aub adopts every noble child with a large amount of mana to become ducal candidates and that Myne is a ducal candidate because of that. I don't recall this. She has been introduced as having a lot of mana, but this was not the reason for adoption and at no point did they say that's the rule, "A child with a ton of mana, join the archducal pool as a potential candidate" - it directly contradicts Wilfreid as the designated heir. Maybe you're confusing things with LN content or other duchies?
何度も「アウブは魔力の多い貴族の子を養子にして候補にする」と言っていたし、マインもその理由で候補になったと。でも自分は覚えていない。魔力が多いと紹介はされたが、それが養子の理由ではなく、「魔力が多い子は候補になる」というルールも言っていない。ヴィルフリートが後継者なのと矛盾する。もしかしてLNや他領と混同している?考察くん
AuroraFinem
I’ve never read any source material.. it was over like 4 episodes at the first half of the season? Edit: it starts in ep5 through ep10, 9-10 specifically.
原作読んだことない…シーズン前半の4話くらいで終わった?編集:5話から10話、特に9〜10話だわ。感情くん
SweetDemotion123
I think you confused things said about other duchies or the world at large. That's not how Ehrenfest operates at all, and there is no rule like that in this duchy, not even close.
他の領地や世界全体の話と混同してない?エーレンフェストは全然そんなやり方じゃないし、この領地にそんなルールはないよ。全然違う。普通くん
AuroraFinem
Ep5 through ep10, it also touched on it again when the Aub left for a while and even in today’s episode because it’s the entire reason why the Aubs sister hates them. Edit: ep9-10 more specifically.
5話から10話あたりの話だな。領主がしばらく留守にした時にも触れてたし、今日の話でもそうだ。領主の妹が彼らを嫌う理由そのものだからな。訂正、正確には9話から10話だ。ドライおじ
SweetDemotion123
You are conflating a lot of things together but again, this is not how Ehrnfest (this duchy) does things in the present - and those were not the reasons why they adopted Myne - official or not.
いろいろごちゃ混ぜになってるけど、今のエーレンフェスト(この領地)ではそういうやり方はしないし、それがマインを養女にした理由でもないよ。公式でも非公式でもね。普通くん
AuroraFinem
原文
You’re missing my point. My entire point was that, the way this Aub is doing things does not bode well for the duchy . Specifically because of what is required from the Aub for the duchy to succeed, as is discussed in ep9 at 9:15 and throughout the rest of the episode and episode 10 where they specifically tell Wilfred he will be removed as heir if he does not meet expectations. The current Aub went through the succession struggle I referred to and I specifically said he was the first to break this tradition. It is also specifically said that Myne is a ducal candidate even with Wilfred designated as heir apparent and the fact she’s adopted.
話の要点ずれてるンゴ。ワイが言いたいのは、今のアウブのやり方は領地にとってマズいってことや。理由はアウブに求められる役割にあって、9話9:15やその後の話、10話でヴィルフリートが期待に応えられなきゃ後継外すってハッキリ言われとるやん。今のアウブはワイが言った後継争いを経験しとる。伝統破った最初の人物やと明言したやろ。マインが公爵候補なのも、ヴィルフリートが後継指名され養子でも関係ないと作中で言われとるンゴ。2ちゃん
nsleep
原文
Adoption like that isn't common in Ehrenfest, but not rare enough in the country anyone would question it. You're correct that the main reason is her mana, but the original plan was being adopted by Karstedt. Ferdinand only realized how much mana she has after the healing ritual during the Trombe hunt, and that why he wanted to check her memories right after. It's like, way too fucking much mana, more than the current Aub at age 7. She isn't an asset someone would stumble upon and ignore, and making sure she receives proper training to control it is pretty much mandatory at that level.
エーレンフェストじゃ養子縁組は珍しくないけど、国全体で見ても疑問視されるほどでもない。主な理由が魔力なのは正しい。ただ元々の計画ではKarstedtが養子にするはずだった。Ferdinandが彼女の魔力の多さに気づいたのはトロンベ討伐の治癒儀式の後で、だからすぐ記憶を確認した。7歳で現アウブより魔力が多いとか異常すぎる。見逃せない人材だし、制御の訓練は必須だね。普通くん
_sayaka_
原文
Unless RM was adopted by Sylvester she couldn't pour mana in the duchy foundation. She needed to be of the Aub's family. Even if RM couldn't conceive children, Wilfred could still marry other women. Sylvester and Florentia are ready to sacrifice RM for their son, that's sad but not unthinkable. We learned that Ferdinand entered the temple before his father's death, probably not to be perceived as a threatening aub candidate to his less talented brother. In other words, his future as a man was sacrificed to let him survive. Unlike Sylvester, the other nobles still think of Ferdinand as a threat since they pointed out that he is manipulating Sylvester. And, to be honest, he could if he would. It's just that we know he hasn't any ambition to dethrone his brother. In fact, he has let his brother use him as he pleases so far, like if it was is life duty to support Sylvester. An outsider, though, couldn't tell that. They would assume that he has common reasonable ambition.
ロゼマがジルヴェスターに養女にされない限り、領地の基礎に魔力を注げない。オーブ家の家族である必要があった。たとえロゼマが子を産めなくても、ヴィルフリートは他の女と結婚できる。ジルヴェスターとフロレンツィアは息子のためにロゼマを犠牲にする覚悟だ。悲しいが不可解ではない。フェルディナンドが父の死前に神殿入りしたのは、才能の劣る兄に脅威と見られないためだろう。つまり、生き残るために男としての未来を犠牲にした。ジルヴェスターと違い、他の貴族は今もフェルディナンドを脅威と見なし、彼がジルヴェスターを操っていると指摘する。正直、その気になれば可能だ。ただ、兄を廃する野心はないと我々は知っている。実際、これまで兄に利用されるがまま、ジルヴェスターを支えるのが自分の使命かのように。しかし部外者には分からない。彼らはフェルディナンドに普通の野心があると推測するだろう。考察くん
panther1313
原文
They literally have the Aub adopt anyone who shows significant promise to make sure the next Aub is the most capable one with the most mana and then snub the most capable person with the most mana by having her marry someone incapable to prop them up? That's incorrect. They never mentioned that the Aub just adopts everyone with a lot of mana. In fact if you recall the original plan was for Myne to be only adopted by Karstedt when she turned 10yrs old, before everything went tits up during the temple incident.
領主が有望な人材を養子にして次期領主を選ぶって話、確かに微妙だよね。ただ「魔力が多い人を全員養子にする」って描写はなかったはず。元々は10歳でカルステッドに養子縁組の予定だったし。普通くん
AuroraFinem
Ep9 9:15 I literally said this Aub is the first one to break tradition because they didn’t like their own succession struggle. They go more into it through ep10 and sprinkled into the rest of the season as well in misc conversations. Especially when talking about blessing the Hasse cathedral and the palace while the Aub is away.
9話9:15、まさに私が言った通り、このアウブは自分の後継者争いが嫌で伝統を破った最初の人物だという考察ができる。10話以降もこの点は掘り下げられ、シーズン全体の雑談にも散りばめられている。特にアウブ不在時にハッセの聖堂や宮殿を祝福する話の際にな。考察くん
H-K_47
The "breaking tradition" part is Sylvester declaring Wilfried to be his successor rather than having his children compete over it. This is referring to his biological children, Wilfried's younger siblings, who haven't been intro'd yet. It's not that the Aub is supposed to adopt all high mana people and have them compete, nothing like that.
「伝統破り」ってのは、シルヴェスターが子供たちを競わせずヴィルフリートを後継者に指名したことや。まだ出てきてない実子の弟妹たちのことやで。別に領主が高魔力の奴全員養子にして競わせるわけやないで。2ちゃん
panther1313
I literally said this Aub is the first one to break tradition because they didn’t like their own succession struggle. He broke tradition by naming Wilfried his successor before any competition took place between the Aub's children. He didn't adopt Myne with the intention of having her compete to be Aub.
このAub、自分たちの後継者争いが嫌で伝統を破った最初の例だと言える。Aubの子供たちの間で競争が起きる前に、ヴィルフリートを後継者に指名したんだからな。マインを養子にしたのも、Aubの座を争わせるためじゃなかったという考察ができる。考察くん
kalirion
It's great seeing the Harrisen scenes animated after they've shown them in the PV. I really hope that thing keeps making appearances in future eps.
ハリセン(ハリセン?)のシーンがPVで見た後にアニメ化されてるの最高やん。あれが今後の話でもずっと出てくることをガチで願っとるわ2ちゃん
SweetDemotion123
I think it can wear out the joke very quickly, so maybe they should reserve it to special occassions.
ジョークはすぐに飽きられると思うから、特別な時に取っておくべきかもね。普通くん
Fermi_Amarti
原文
She doesn't seem to like the mom very much either. She probably was pretty ruthless to everyone in getting Sylvester to be archduke. Honestly don't think she'll do anything drastic against Sylvester and Myne unless she senses weakness. She became first wife from 3rd. She's gathering options. A strong ehrenfest can benefit her as an ally. Or if there is weakness, she options to usurp it with her mother's old faction now that Veronica is out of the way. Anyways. Basically she's in an amazing position now. My guess is she will basically act in whatever way maximizes her power and influence. Unfortunately Wilhelm is a huge point of weakness for Sylvester so I could see that becoming a problem. As he also reminds her of Sylvester. She works hard and really doesn't respect Sylvester who doesn't or didn't pushing her out of Archduke. Wilhelm could easily earn her ire more than Myne probably.
彼女は母親もあまり好きじゃなさそうだな。シルヴェスターを領主にするためには、誰に対しても容赦なかったんだろうという考察ができる。正直、自分が弱みを感じない限り、シルヴェスターやマインに対して過激なことをするとは思えない。三番目から第一夫人に昇格した人物だ。選択肢を集めているんだよ。強いエーレンフェストは味方として彼女に利益をもたらす。あるいは弱みがあれば、ヴェロニカがいなくなった今、母親の旧派閥を使って簒奪する選択肢もある。要するに彼女は今、素晴らしい立場にいる。おそらく自分の権力と影響力を最大化するように動くはずだ。残念ながらヴィルフリートはシルヴェスターにとって大きな弱点だから、問題になり得ると思う。彼はシルヴェスターを思い出させるからな。彼女は努力家で、自分を領主の座から追い出そうとしない(しなかった)シルヴェスターを本当に尊敬していない。ヴィルフリートはマインよりも彼女の怒りを買いやすいだろうな。考察くん
andrei9669
Ferdinand be like: DO IT
フェルディナンド「やれ」って感じだね普通くん
PeaceAlien
That and the post credit scene were great
それとエンドロール後の場面、実に見事でござったな。武士
GtrsRE
It's like Ferdinand possessed Myne in that scene
あのシーン、フェルディナンドがマインに憑依したみたいやんwww2ちゃん
Atharaphelun
Truly Darth Myne
まさにダース・マインだな普通くん
NevisYsbryd
Of course her weapon would be a papersaber.
てか彼女の武器が紙のサーベルってまじでそれっぽすぎるじゃん!ギャル
GtrsRE
"Go, do a crime" energy
犯罪やっちゃえ的なノリだね普通くん
NiCommander
"Let the intolerance of stupidity flow through you"
「愚かさへの不寛容を、その身に流し込め」2ちゃん
Komarist
Bonk #1 and bonk #2. Surely Myne made a mistake by "inventing" such a simple tool for Ferdinand to use against her...
ボンク①とボンク②じゃん!てかMyneがフェルディナンドに使われるようなシンプルな道具「発明」しちゃったの、まじでミスったんじゃね?笑ギャル
Skullzans
The cycle of abuse where the abused abuses someone else /j
虐待の連鎖で、虐待された側が別の人を虐待するってやつ /j普通くん
CelioHogane
Sadly, Wilfred probably will never find someone more stupid than him to bonk.
ヴィルフリート殿は、己より愚かなる者を見つけることは叶わぬであろうな。誠に嘆かわしきことにござる。武士
Skullzans
My brain imagined him looking at a rock, then somehow losing. and it smaccs him.
彼が岩を見てて、なぜか負けて、その岩にぶつかるって脳内再生された。普通くん
PeaceAlien
Ferdinand Counter Bonk was funny and Myne getting to bonk was satisfying.
フェルディナンドのカウンターボンクまじウケるし、マインがボンクできたのスカッとするわ〜!ギャル
SetaSanzaki
That was his Bonk-kai
それは彼のボンカイだったね普通くん
Delisches
That final bonk had me burst out laughing
あの最後のボンッてやばくね!?まじで爆笑したんだけど笑ギャル
FarCritical
Can't get over the gap in sincerity between Ferdinand's smile for appearances (beyond cursed) and for Rosamyne bullying time (clearly having a field day) I like how you can sense Georgine appreciated how Wilifried "kept it real" among everyone being overly polite lol.
フェルディナンドの営業スマイル(呪われすぎ)と、ローゼマインをいじる時の笑顔(完全に楽しんでる)のギャップがやばい。あとゲオルギーネが、みんな過度に礼儀正しい中でヴィルフリートの「素の感じ」を評価してたのが分かるの好き。普通くん
fatalystic
I like how you can sense Georgine appreciated how Wilifried "kept it real" among everyone being overly polite lol. Oh she appreciated it alright, but not for the reasons you think. She's been given an excuse to come back, and has very clearly marked the boy as a convenient pawn to puppeteer later.
ゲオルギーネがヴィルフリートの「本音で語る」姿勢を評価したように見えるのが面白い。ただ、評価したのは確かだが理由は想像とは違う。彼女は戻る口実を得て、この少年を後々操る都合のいい駒として明確にマークしたという考察ができる。考察くん
drunkenvalley
I like how you can sense Georgine appreciated how Wilifried "kept it real" among everyone being overly polite lol. ...the issue is it let her immediately turn around and plan a new day to return, which is what they were trying to avoid enabling. Without it, it's easier for them to rebuff and reschedule unto eternity, but now she has an excited nephew who wants to see her.
ゲオルギーネがヴィルフリートの「本音で話す」姿勢を評価してたの分かるわwww みんな丁寧すぎる中でな。ただ問題は、それで彼女がすぐ帰還の計画立てられるようになったことや。避けたかった展開やん。なければ永遠に先延ばしにできたのに、今は会いたがる甥っ子がおるせいでな。2ちゃん
moichispa
and that's why we needed to get a studio with better animation quality
だからこそ、もっと作画の良いスタジオが必要だったんだよな…!感情くん
drunkenvalley
I don't feel like the series really needs much better animation, so much as I generally feel like I'm watching a rushed powerpoint presentation for much of it. Daemons of the Shadow Realm gets some criticism for being slow, but on the flipside a lot of anime nowadays don't have the time to more than flash you a badge before they gotta run to the next crime scene.
アニメーションの質より、全体的に急ぎ足のパワポ見てる感覚の方が気になる。影の王国の悪魔は遅いと批判されるけど、逆に最近のアニメはバッジ見せる暇もなく次の現場へ走る感じだよね。普通くん
moichispa
It was more about the upgrade we got for this season compared to the previous ones but yeah things go rather fast. We have way more material to adapt here
前のシーズンと比べて今期はグレードアップしたって話だけどなw まあ確かに展開は早いわ笑 ここからは原作の量がハンパないからなwwwwおじ
drunkenvalley
I don't think this is inherently a material amount, they also just sometimes don't use their time very well imo. Some content may be relevant later, but I struggle to see how it will remain relevant enough to include if you're trying to do a properly paced show.
これは本質的にそこまで重要な量じゃないと思う。ただ時間の使い方がうまくない時もあるんだよね。後で関係してくる内容もあるかもしれないけど、ちゃんとテンポよく進めたいなら、それを入れるほど重要であり続けるとは思えないんだよな。普通くん
MaskOfIce42
Honestly I see that criticism a lot about Daemons of the Shadow Realm, but personally the entire time I've been watching it, I thought the pacing felt good, like I can sorta see what people mean but personally, I like the series taking more time to breathe generally. I dunno, either way I'm loving it
正直、黄泉のツガイに対するその批判はよく見かけるんだけど、個人的には視聴中ずっとテンポは良いと感じてたんだよな。言いたいことは分かる気もするけど、全体的にもっとゆったり間を取る作風は好きだし、とにかく今は楽しんでる考察くん
drunkenvalley
原文
Yeah I think Daemons of the Shadow Realm is generally also much better at utilizing its time. The scenes generally flow well. The scenes themselves can go long, etc, but it generally doesn't feel like we're jumpcutting because we have to get to the next scene 30 seconds ago . I also feel like the scenes we see throughout the series are centrally more important to the plot advancement, at least generally speaking. Comparatively, Ascendance of a Bookworm has a number of scenes that kind of feel like they're just fleshing out the sides, which would be fine if you had time to spare, but it's eating up even so much as a proper transition between scenes, or cuts short entire moments. For example, Rozemyne fainting and being dragged by Wilfred was just... the end of an episode, and then never spoken of again. That... seems more important to me than a lot of other things we had time for.
うん、『影の領域の悪魔』は時間の使い方が全体的にうまいと思う。シーンの流れも自然だし、長くなることもあるけど、急いで次のシーンに飛ぶ感じがない。話の進展に関わる重要なシーンが多い気がする。比べて『本好きの下剋上』は、本筋に関係ない寄り道シーンが多い。時間があればいいけど、そのせいでシーンの切り替えが雑になったり、大事な瞬間が削られたりしてる。例えばロゼマインが倒れてヴィルフリートに運ばれるシーン、あれで1話終了→その後触れられず。あれの方がよっぽど重要だと思うんだけどな。普通くん
Golden_Phi
I imagine it will later on when they are adapting the part of the story where its popularity took off. Which would be the season after this one.
この後の人気爆発パートをアニメ化する時やろな。次のシーズンあたりでガチ来るンゴ2ちゃん
Obaruler
Ferdinand has been granted the perfect weapon to handle RozeMyne by the gods. Also hit Wilfried some more with it, who's more a jester than high nobility at this point, why re-invite the aunt everyone wants just gone? Has noone told him in advance?
フェルディナンドは神々からロゼマイン対策の完璧な武器を授かったね。ついでにヴィルフリートにももっとそれで殴ってほしい、もう高貴な貴族というより道化じゃん。なんでみんなが消えてほしい叔母をまた招待するんだ?誰も事前に教えてないのか?普通くん
skavinger5882
Has noone told him in advance? With the amount of educational neglect we saw from his retainers, no likely no one told him shit
誰も事前に教えてなかったの?側近たちの教育放棄っぷり見てたら、たぶん誰も何も教えてなかったんだろうな…しんどい。感情くん
EXusiai99
I mean he's been briefed multiple time to not be alone and not go off script when talking to ANYONE. They could have explained why he shouldn't (they can just say that while Georgine is family by blood, she's the first wife of a higher duchy, so he's not allowed to act casually to her), but this is just Bumfried being bum
何度も単独行動すんな、誰と話す時も台本通りにしろって言われてたはず。理由を説明してもよかったのに(血縁でもゲオルギーネは上級領地の第一夫人だから気安くするな、とか言えばいい)、これはただのボンフリがポンコツなだけ普通くん
Ebo87
Yep, they told him what to do, but never bothered to explain why. And then kept him away from his aunt (an aunt that reminds him so much of his grandma, a grandma that raised him), so this is not all shocking, kid is only 8 years old after all.
そう、彼らは彼に何をすべきかは言ったけど、なぜなのかは説明しようとしなかったんだよな。しかも彼をおばさんから遠ざけてた(そのおばさんは彼のおばあさん——彼を育ててくれたおばあさん——をすごく思い出させる存在なんだ)。これを踏まえると、これは全然驚くことじゃないという考察ができる。子供はまだ8歳なんだからな。考察くん
NevisYsbryd
He is a kid and one can easily infer from his responses that he thinks she must be excluded from that because family is totally safe. Remember, he was specifically raised to not be involved in the family feuding normal to noble politics. Clearly, no one explained that, no, Georgine is not an exception because she is family and seemingly nice.
彼はまだ子供で、家族は絶対安全だと思ってるから、彼女を除外すべきだと考えてるのが返答から読み取れる。彼は貴族政治の家族争いに巻き込まれないように育てられたんだ。誰も「ジョルジーネは家族で優しそうに見えても例外じゃない」って教えてなかったんだね。普通くん
Hot-Log6283
Considering the post-credit scene with Rosemyne I feel like they did tell him but he just didn't get it, nobility is about being subtle and it seems like a hard concept for him to gasp.
ED後のローゼマインのシーン見る限り、伝えてはいたけどあいつが理解できてなかっただけやろ。貴族ってのは含蓄が大事なんやが、そいつには難しすぎたんやなwww2ちゃん
moichispa
I know how relatable this show is sometimes with little details like this even if is an fantasy isekai. People will be people and kids will be kids.
こういう細かいディテールが時々すごく共感できるんだよね、ファンタジー異世界ものでも。人は人だし、子供は子供だしさ。普通くん
CelioHogane
No, no one has told him in advance, because if they told him, he would show hostility to her, which they cannot have him do.
いや、誰も事前に彼には言ってへんやろ。言うたら彼女に敵意むき出しにするやんか、それはあかんのや。2ちゃん
EXusiai99
That parry+instant counter from Ferdinand was cinematic lmao
フェルディナンドの受け流し+即カウンター、映画みたいで草普通くん
CyanPhoenix42
that might be the most genuine smile we've ever gotten from Ferdinand LOL
フェルディナンドのあんな素の笑顔、初めて見たわwwwガチで貴重やん2ちゃん
alconnow
Everyone's reactions to Wilfried's screw-up lmao DESERVED
ヴィルフリートの失敗に対するみんなの反応www 当然だわ普通くん
SolomonBlack
Who is that sociable smiling fellow there? Why are we only meeting him now?
あの社交的な笑顔のやつ誰なん?なんで今まで出てこなかったん?まじで謎なんだけど笑ギャル
Kirosh2
It's Serdinand. Ferdinand long lost smiling brother. He goes to another duchy.
それはセルディナンドだよ。フェルディナンドの生き別れた笑顔の兄弟で、別の領地に行ったんだ。普通くん
DanielAlves1904
Smiledinand, the evil spirit that lives within Ferdinand.
フェルディナンドの中に潜む悪霊、スマイルディナンドやん。2ちゃん
xellos2099
Is that a Bleach joke?
それってBleachのネタ?普通くん
moichispa
Not sure but he is sus
わからんけど彼は怪しいンゴ2ちゃん
Myrkrvaldyr
And they don't bother telling him exactly why he screwed up. The vague scolding post-credits is pointless on a kid like him. If the miscommunication causes the family more troubles, they reap what they sowed.
彼に何が問題だったか正確に伝えもしないんだよな。エンドクレジット後の曖昧な説教は、彼のような子供には無意味だという考察ができる。もし意思疎通の不足が家族にさらなる面倒を招くなら、自業自得ってことになる。考察くん
EXusiai99
Roz did. He was given a script and he threw it over the window.
ロズはやったよ。台本渡されたのに窓から投げ捨てたんだ。普通くん
Myrkrvaldyr
Was he told exactly everything about Georgine? Why she's dangerous and what she's done to his father?
ゲオルギーネのこと全部教えてもらったんか?なんで危険なんか、父親に何したかとかさ2ちゃん
ProbablyNotTheCocoa
considering who Wilfried is, if he was given all the info he'd start blathering on about it in clear earshot of her or even directly too her, so instead of just having a very inconvenient revisit, you have a serious interduchy incident with the son the archduke as primary testimony
ヴィルフリートの性格を考えると、全部の情報を渡したら本人の目の前か直接本人にペラペラ喋っちゃうから、ただの厄介な再訪じゃ済まなくて、領主の息子が主要証言者になる領地間の重大事件になるんだよ。普通くん
EXusiai99
I can imagine that even if they did he wouldn't have believed them anyway. But they could frame it as a way of maintaining a professional interduchy relationship (doubly important since Ahrenbach ranks higher so they cant afford anyone going off script and slipping up at the risk of a diplomatic incident).
たとえ話しても信じなかったやろな。でも専門的な領地間関係を保つ手段としてなら筋は通るわ。アーレンバッハの方が格上やから、外交問題になるリスク考えたら誰もポカやられへんしな。せやな。2ちゃん
kkrko
Wilfried loves his dad. Just saying she bullied him would probably be enough to turn him against her.
ヴィルフリートは父親が大好きだからね。いじめられたって言うだけで、彼女に敵意を向けるには十分かも。普通くん
CelioHogane
Yes, the problem is that Wilfried would SHOW that he dislikes her. Which he also CANNOT do.
てかそれな!ヴィルフリートが嫌いって態度見せるのが問題なんだよね。でもそれもできねーんだわ、まじで。ギャル
djthomp
Incredible harisen work today. Some of the relationships in this family are so toxic it's impressive that Ferdinand and Sylvester's doesn't appear to be toxic at all. I pity Rosemyne if she ends up Wilfried's wife someday.
今日のハリセンさばきは見事だったね。この家族の関係はどれも毒性が強いのに、フェルディナンドとジルヴェスターのは全然毒じゃないのが逆にすごい。ローゼマインが将来ヴィルフリートの妻になったら可哀想だな。普通くん
PerfectBeige
Now that Rozemyne has given them the foundation of manzai slapstick technology, Ehrenfest's entertainment exports will be unstoppable.
ロゼマインが漫才スラップスティック技術の基礎を授けた今、エーレンフェストの娯楽輸出は止められない…!優勝すぎるッ!感情くん
HumanTheTree
To be fair, Sylvester is lazy and he does like to push his work off to Ferdinand. It's not a source of friction between them, but it's not non-toxic.
てかまじそれな!シルヴェスターってばまじで怠け者だし、仕事フェルディナンドに丸投げするの好きじゃん。二人の間で揉め事にはなってないけど、健全とは言えないよね笑ギャル
slicer4ever
it's impressive that Ferdinand and Sylvester's doesn't appear to be toxic at all. tbf, of what we've seen of georgine doesn't seem to be very toxic yet either. I get the feeling she actually isn't too interested in veronica's faction as ferdinand and sylvester think(considering she tactfully used her position to tell them she can't really interfere in erhnfest).
フェルディナンドとジルヴェスターの関係が全く有毒に見えないのは驚きだ。ゲオルギーネも今のところ有毒とは言い切れない。彼女はエーレンフェストに干渉できないと巧みに伝えており、ヴェロニカ派にそこまで興味がないという考察ができる。考察くん