submitted by /u/MyneMod to r/HonzukiNoGekokujou [link] [comments]
「本好きの下剋上マジで面白いンゴwww ワイも領主の養女編で泣いてもうたわ アニメの作画良すぎやろ」2ちゃん
Anacroniqa
原文
I think the characterization for Myne in the anime has been quite different from that in the novels from the first season, her behaviour is often softened. I get why, as Myne at the beginning of the story is not exactly a likable character, but that also reduces her development and now sometimes I find she is way too perfect for the gremlin she actually is. It's like the version of the anime is the saint version of her that Hartmut makes propaganda of.
ワイもそう思うわ。アニメのマイン、小説と比べてキャラが丸くなってるよな。1期からずっとそうや。理由はわかるけど、あのクソガキっぷりが薄まってて、成長も伝わりにくくなってるンゴwww 今のアニメ版はハルトムートが布教してる聖女verやんけ。ガチで完璧すぎてワロタ2ちゃん
Kuroser
We're fr watching the Hartmut cut 💀
ハルトムートのカットシーンを真剣に見てる俺たち、ちょっとやばいな。ドライおじ
Mysterious-Hurry-758
Nah Hartmut absolutely loves it when RM reacts to things like this and people learn their place.
いやハルトムートはRMがこういう反応するのガチで好きやろwww 周りが自分の立場を理解する瞬間がたまらんのやな2ちゃん
jadedashi
Wait I thought the soldiers complaining was when they all sat together while eating which hasn’t even happened yet.
ふむ…兵士たちの不満が噴出するのは、まだ訪れぬ宴の席での出来事…時空の裂け目を覗くが如き予言めいた言葉よな。中二病
Kuroser
It's supposed to happen during the tour she gives the soldiers before she goes to get the orphans, the same tour during which she sets up her hidden room and pours mana into the monastery's barrier
やばくね!?それって孤児たちを迎えに行く前に兵士たちに案内するツアー中に起こるやつじゃん!隠し部屋作ったり修道院のバリアに魔力注いだりするあのツアーでしょ!まじでやばい展開すぎるんだけど笑ギャル
jadedashi
Oof then yea that sucks. I personally wanted to hear more of Nora’s words of not staying in a room without men and that she might actually get a good nights sleep for once.
おいおいそれマジでキツいなw 俺はノーラが「男のいない部屋でやっとぐっすり眠れるかも」って言ってたのをもっと聞きたかったんだがな笑 まじワロタwwwおじ
Kuroser
Yeah, they also removed Rozemyne offering them the option to stay at the dining hall, and consequently Nora's very concerning and sad perspective on the whole matter. All in all, I feel like they've been removing every unsavory element they could get away with, and I don't know if I agree with that or not
確かに、ローゼマインが食堂に残る選択を提示するシーンも、ノーラの悲痛な視点もカットされてたね。全体的に、不快な要素を可能な限り削ってる感じがする。それが正しい判断なのかは正直わからない。普通くん
Zilfr
Yep they tone down the prostitution and selling kids as sex slaves, understandable for a family oriented anime.
せやな、娼婦とか子供の人身売買描写を抑えてるわな。ファミリー向けアニメやししゃーないやろwww2ちゃん
bondsmatthew
Was surprised to see the orphans girls not being up the whole "I dont wanna sleep around men" thing! It was the whole reason they accepted to stay was it not? Am I misremembering?
あれ?孤児の女の子たちが「男の周りで寝たくない」って話を全然気にしてなかったけど、それが彼女たちが留まることを承諾した理由だったんじゃなかったっけ?俺の記憶違いかな。普通くん
feb914
They're not "sleeping around men" though, in their mind (until Nora spoke up), all the orphans thought about is there are 4 of them, practically siblings. They're not 2 growing boys and 2 growing girls, they're 4 siblings protecting each other.
「寝取り男」ってわけじゃないンゴ。ノーラが言うまで孤児たちは自分たち4人を実質兄弟みたいに思ってたんや。成長期の男女2人ずつってより、守り合う4人の兄弟姉妹って感覚やな。2ちゃん
bondsmatthew
原文
Hi I think you misunderstood my comment. I was referring to the sleeping in the dining hall scene. I was saying the anime omitted much of the following scene, basically the whole resolution to the conflict "Boys are forbidden from entering the girls building; they are only allowed to go to the dining room. You would normally not be allowed in here, but we brought you here today so that you could see for yourselves that the girls are being treated equally." "I know, but that is irrelevant. This is the girls' building. Even their male family members cannot enter,"' "To other gray shrine maidens, Thore and Rick are not family- they are strangers and men like any other. Just as you wish to protect Nora, Thore, I wish to protect my gray shrine maidens." "If you insist on staying together, you will need to sleep in the corner of the dining hall." "I will only be lending you space to sleep; the dining hall can be entered by all, so other men have free access to the space as well. It is not your personal area, and others will not be forbidden from entering your sleeping space." "You can sleep in the dining hall if you absolutely insist. but I think that Nora and Marthe would rest easier in the girls' building where men are forbidden from going than in the dining hall where anybody can enter. Am I right?" "Thore, please go to the boys' building. We'll sleep in the girls' building." "I don't want to sleep in the dining hall. I won't be able to relax with men I don't know walking around. It's been so long since I've been able to sleep easy... Please understand, Thore"
あー、ごめん、こっちの解釈間違えてたわ。食堂で寝るシーンの話ね。アニメだとかなりカットされてたんだな。原作だと「男子は女子棟に入れない、食堂までしか来ちゃダメ」っていうルールの説明とか、「家族でも女子棟には入れない」ってトーレに言うシーンとか、ノラとマルテを守るための話し合いがもっと詳しかったんだよね。食堂で寝るって提案も「男子も出入りできるから安心できない」って流れがあって、ちゃんとトーレが折れる感じだった。アニメだとこの辺の解決部分がだいぶ端折られてたんだな。普通くん
ManinaPanina
Exactly because is "family oriented" that these things must be said IMO. Better way to prevent these types of incidents and crime and with awareness. We all know most abuse happened inside the house.
ふむ…「家族の絆」という神聖なる領域だからこそ、我々は真実を語らねばならぬのだ。この世の闇を防ぐ最強の魔法は、まさに「認識」という名の力。家庭という聖域こそ、最も深き闇が潜む場所だと、全ての魂が知っているというのに…。中二病
azopeFR
That why i hope they will not ,sadly we cannot influence it.
マジでそれな…!でも悲しいけど俺たちにはどうしようもないんだよね…😢ギャル
azopeFR
If it like the ln , it the start of a quest that will take 6 or 8 episode to totaly end
まあ原作通りなら、これから6〜8話くらいかけて完全に終わるクエストが始まるってことだな。ドライおじ
hibikir_40k
If they were going to suppress it, showing the foundation and explaining the spell would have been pointless, so I would be very surprised if it was.
せやな…もし抑圧するつもりなら土台見せて魔法の説明する意味ないしな。ワイもガチで驚くンゴwww2ちゃん
Albireookami
"lets cut out everything that is involved with volume 2 and a huge milstone for roz" I think people are panicking about minor scenes being cut for time. Calm down, she is still overreaching with her authority stealing the orphans for herself and that whole ark. The commoners will attack and we will be going into that whole arc because its 100% needed for part 3 to resolve.
「2巻の内容とロズにとっての大きな節目を全部カットしよう」って意見あるけど、時間不足で細かいシーンが削られるのを過剰に心配してる人が多いみたいだな。落ち着けよ、彼女が孤児を自分の権限で奪い取るあの傲慢な行動や、その後の流れは絶対に残るはずだ。平民たちが攻撃してくる展開は、パート3の解決に100%必要な伏線だから、カットされるわけがないという考察ができる。考察くん
azopeFR
i mean for not it not big deal , what realy need to hapen is show that rosyme make a tyran act by take the orphan withou pay for it , that he mayor is not just cartoonish evil and do it for the village ( and a litle for himself ) and she learn she cannot go to free slave in the duchy
確かに今はまだ大した問題じゃないよね。本当に必要なのは、ロジーマインが孤児を無償で引き取る暴挙に出たことや、町長がただの極悪人じゃなくて村のため(と自分のため)にやってること、そして彼女が領地内で自由に奴隷解放できないって学ぶシーンを見せることだと思う。普通くん
Reymilie
原文
I don't think she overstepped her authority in that scene. It's not a good idea to let that kind of resentful atmosphere fester among the soldiers when they're supposed to guard and protect the gray priests & shrine maidens, whom as orphans (technically) have the lowest position in Yurgenschmidtt. If it escalates they could even be harmed and even if not, they can be still be hurt by their words. Especially since Myne has the experience of being guarded by someone who hates her and who has a higher position than her, and we all know how it went down.
あの場面での彼女の権限逸脱はなかったと考察できる。兵士たちがユルゲンシュミットで最下層の孤児(形式的には)である灰色神官・巫女を守る立場にある以上、あの怨恨の空気を放置するのは危険だ。エスカレートすれば身体的危害もあり得るし、仮にそうならなくても言葉で傷つける可能性は十分ある。特にマインは自分より高位で自分を憎む者に護衛された経験があり、その結末は周知の通りだ。制作陣はこのシーンで、権力構造の危うさを描いていると思われる。考察くん
Kuroser
原文
Of course, but from the perspective of everyone else she's a volatile noble around whom you don't know what you're allowed to say. "What do you mean we can't talk shit about orphans? They're orphans for crying out loud!" is probably something that at least one person in Rozemyne's presence has thought. She's seemingly prioritizing the wrong people and lashing out at improper times She did the same in the novels with Egmont, the blue priest that messed up the book room. During her initiation ceremony she crushes him a little, for which Ferdinand scolds her, saying that he hadn't done anything to her yet, and that, as there had been a change in power, he should've been allowed some time to prove where his loyalty is
確かにね。でも周りから見れば、彼女は何を言っていいかわからない気難しい貴族なんだよ。「孤児の悪口を言っちゃダメってどういう意味だよ?だって孤児だぞ!」って、ローゼマインの前で少なくとも一人は思ったはず。彼女は明らかに優先順位がおかしくて、場違いなタイミングで怒りを爆発させるんだ。小説でもエグモント(書庫をめちゃくちゃにした青司祭)に対して同じことやってたし。叙任式の時に彼を少し追い詰めて、フェルディナンドに「まだ何もしてないのに、権力が変わったんだから忠誠心を示す時間を与えるべきだ」って叱られてたよな。普通くん
Zolofteu
I agree about Egmont but for that soldier convo, rather than "volatile noble", it'd just spread the saint propaganda more. Prioritizing the wrong people is the entire reason she's been called a saint in the first place. I'm pretty sure the people around her would think the soldiers deserve it, thinking, "You do not talk shit about the orphans that the saint trying to desperately save."
エグモントの件は同意するけど、あの兵士との会話は「気難しい貴族」というより聖女プロパガンダを広めるだけだと思う。優先順位を間違えた人々を優先するからこそ、彼女が聖女と呼ばれる理由そのものだ。周囲の人々は「聖女が必死に救おうとしている孤児たちを悪く言うな」と考え、兵士たちが報いを受けるのは当然だと思うだろう。考察くん
alconnow
Gunther in tantrum mode was pretty cute. Sad we didn’t get a chibi post-credits scene. Instead, we got Rozemyne getting told off by both Ferdinand and Fran lmao
ギュンターが駄々こねてる姿、結構可愛かったな。ED後にちびキャラシーンがなかったのは残念。代わりにフェルディナンドとフランの両方にローゼマインが怒られててワロタw普通くん
FajarKalawa
原文
The hasse adaptation itself is ok probably 5/10 and 6/10 after the Fran scene, I wish its as good as the manga which I put at 9/10 but the extra scene of mayor being terrified is nice touch. The budget is gone except for a few shot for hasse and event that lead to hasse got skipped and by a lot (7 chapter for 1 episode). The first half is rushed as hell and the cut content create massive tonal shift from the first half to second half. The vibe is off, people like to say that part 3 manga adaptation is horrible but scene/panel direction in that adaptation is amazing only the artstyle. Any scene that paints rozemyne in bad light and not in major scene will be skipped. The animation and pacing seems rebounds back next episode and probably the end of hasse subplot will be as good as concert and end the cour in winter.
ハッセ編のアニメ化自体はまあ5/10ってとこやな、フラン登場シーンで6/10くらいに上がったけど。原作マンガは9/10評価してるワイからすると物足りないわ。でも領主がビビってる追加シーンは良かったンゴね。
予算消し飛んでるやろ、ハッセ編の数カット除いて。しかもハッセに繋がるイベントが大量カット(1話で原作7章分詰め込んでる)。前半は駆け足すぎて、前半と後半でトーンがガラッと変わってもうたわ。
雰囲気おかしいンゴ。よく「3部のマンガはひどい」って言うけど、あのアニメの演出は神やった、絵柄だけが問題やったんやで。ローゼマインを悪く描くシーンとか重要じゃない場面は全部カットされてる。
アニメーションとテンポは次回で持ち直しそうやし、ハッセ編の締めはコンサート並みに良くなって冬でクール終わるんちゃうか。2ちゃん
hibikir_40k
原文
If you look at the episode count, you need to same time and money for the end of the volume. Remember we are also owed a scene from the first volume that just can't be skipped. It's not a matter of bad light or good light, but just lining up with themes, making the episode cohesive. This episode couldn't have been more cohesive, as it's connecting through the theme of separation and Myne's knowledge of what it is to be an uneducated commoner. It's all moved about to fit, and this isn't re:zero, which cuts its own intro and ending song half the time to get more things on screen.
このエピソード数を考慮すると、巻の終盤部分に同じだけの時間と予算を割く必要があったんだろう。1巻から省略できないシーンがまだ残っていることも忘れてはいけない。これは演出の良し悪しの問題ではなく、テーマに沿ってエピソードの一貫性を保つための調整だ。今回のエピソードは「別離」というテーマと、マインが無教養な平民だったことの知識を通じて見事に繋がっている。全ては収まりよく再構成されていて、これはOPやEDを頻繁にカットして尺を稼ぐリゼロとは違うアプローチだと言える。考察くん
ManinaPanina
Is not cohesive when is skipping all signs that Myne is not only a victim anymore, she is also a threat. Isn't this whole arch to teach that her job is not only to prevent her family from being hurt, but that also to prevent her from hurting others? That even small gestures and words coming from her can have violent consequences?
せやけど、マイネがもう被害者やなくて脅威にもなってるってサイン全部飛ばしてたら話がまとまらんやろ。この編って、家族を守るだけやなくて、自分が他人を傷つけるのを防ぐことも仕事やって教えるためのもんちゃうんか? 彼女の小さな仕草や言葉が暴力に繋がるってことやろ?2ちゃん
Chance_Highlight_949
Funny you say that! I'm watching this with my bf who's anime only (I read P2, will continue after the anime) and we both went "JESUS MYNE" when she was telling kids that nobles will kill them, etc, if they don't follow the rules she sets. To both of us it was such a "YOU ARE A NOBLE, you're not sharing info to be nice you're THREATENING THEM, GIRL NO".
それな!俺も彼氏と一緒に観てるんだけど、彼はアニメ勢で俺はP2読了済みなんだよね。で、子供たちに「貴族はルール守らなきゃ殺すよ」って言うシーンで2人で「うわマイネ!」ってなったわ。俺らからすると「お前もう貴族じゃん、情報共有じゃなくて脅迫だよ!」って感じだった。普通くん
Zilfr
原文
7 chapters? I counted: - P3V2 prologue - Discussing the Harvest Festval, with a plot line left for later [P3V2] the jureve . - The new orphans - The first page of the next chapter as a post credit scene. Some details are left aside, like Brigitte or Fran discovering the highbeast, the option if sleeping in the dining hall but ocerall I think the content had been well covered. For Hasse arc, [P3] we will probably have 2 more episodes next one and one in Spring.
7話って言うけど、ワイが数えたらこんな感じやで:
- P3V2のプロローグ
- 収穫祭の話、ジュレーヴの伏線は後回し
- 新しい孤児たち
- 次章の最初のページをポストクレジットシーンで
ブリギッテやフランがハイビーストに気づく件とか、食堂で寝る選択肢とかは省かれてたけど、全体的には内容しっかりカバーしてたンゴねぇ。
ハッセ編は[P3]で多分あと2話、次と春にもう1話って感じやろ。2ちゃん
FajarKalawa
I was talking about manga to anime. Previous episode only adapting two chapter, that's why it's good
確かに前回は2話分しかやらなかったから良かったんだよね。アニメはマンガよりペースが大事だと思う。普通くん
TheAnalyticalEngine1
There's also the P3V1 sidestory where Ingo is involved in the carpentry work for the monastery, reduced to a few seconds right at the start
P3V1のサイドストーリーでインゴが修道院の大工仕事やってた場面、本編では最初の数秒に圧縮されてたんだよなwwwwおじ
FajarKalawa
Yes, the same as they did with the concert. It's the end of the subplot and that scene didn't need a lot of animation just don't make it disjointed/felt rushed. The spectacular animation could go for winter
せやな、コンサートと同じパターンやな。サブプロットの終わりやし、あのシーンは派手なアニメーション要らんかったわ。ただ繋ぎが雑にならんようにしてほしかったンゴ。冬パートに作画リソース回せば良かったのに草2ちゃん
TheAnalyticalEngine1
Another plot-speedrunning episode Rozemyne's interactions with her family (and the flashbacks) were still adorable, though. Damn onion-cutting ninjas Mr No-Name Mayor has no idea what he's getting himself into Do not push Fran!
また話を早送りする回だったけど、ローゼマインと家族のやり取り(と回想)は相変わらず可愛かったな。くそっ、涙腺ゆるむわ。名無し町長、自分が何に首突っ込んでるか全然わかってないな。フランに手を出すなよ!普通くん
whitenette
The scene where Effa is in the hidden room, it's not explicitly said but in Japanese, you can tell Effa can't say much because her words are not polite enough, compared to what Benno says.
エッファが隠し部屋にいるシーン、台詞ではっきり言ってないけど日本語だとベンノの話し方と比べてエッファの言葉が丁寧じゃなくてあんまり喋れないのがわかるンゴwww2ちゃん
Chance_Highlight_949
Yeah! Exactly what I thought listening to how short her polite speech was and how Tuuli had to cover for the pause!
それな!敬語が短すぎて、トゥーリが間を埋めてたの聞いてまさにそう思ったよ!普通くん
xhakami
Fran my goat. fuck them kids.
フラン殿は我が主君よ。あの小僧どもなど、くそくらえでござる。武士
Mysterious-Hurry-758
Fr. Those little shits are incredible lucky.
確かに。あのガキどもは信じられないくらい運が良かったな。普通くん
bondsmatthew
原文
Trying to rush to fit all of part 3 into this season is harming the product haha There ofc are gonna be cuts for a LN adaptation, its not often we get a 1:1(Apothecary was dope with its adaptation!), but yeah. Much of the connective tissue is missing and you're just left with the show going from scene to scene to scene. It feels like we aren't in one scene long enough and then it shifts to the next one Overall it's a fine episode, don't let my complaints drag that down. This section of the story is one I often see people speak about so naturally I'm gonna be negative if I know it can be better
うーん、どうしても第3部全部を今シーズンに詰め込もうとしてるのが作品の質を損ねてる感があるな。もちろんライトノベル原作のアニメ化でカットは付き物だし、完全再現なんて滅多にないけど(薬屋のアニメ化は素晴らしかった!)、でも確かに各シーンをつなぐ重要な要素が抜け落ちてて、ただ場面が次々と切り替わっていくだけになってる。どのシーンも十分に描かれる前に次に移ってしまう印象だ。とはいえ、エピソード自体は悪くないし、俺の不満で評価を下げないでほしい。このパートはよく話題になる部分だからこそ、もっと良くできたはずだと知ってると否定的にならざるを得ないんだよな。考察くん
UzumakiNaruhodo
No chibi segment after this episode huh. Interesting
この話の後にちびキャラパートなかったね。面白いな。普通くん
Zilfr
Oh. The meeting between Effa and Myne, so moving. Upsetting Fran is not an easy feat. Waiting now for the sub version.
やばっ!エッファとマインの対面シーンめっちゃ感動じゃん!フランを怒らせるってまじで難しいよね。てかサブ版待ってるんだけど早く見たい!!ギャル
azopeFR
to be fair he probaly save they for a hard punishement
確かに、厳しい罰のために取っておいたんだろうね普通くん
Zilfr
Yes but [P5V12] we never saw Fran violently reacting after this chapter.
確かに[P5V12]にて、フランがその章の後に激しく反応する姿は某(それがし)も目にしなかったでござるな。武士
azopeFR
i know
え?知ってるって何がやねんw 続きあるんか?2ちゃん
Mysterious-Hurry-758
Wdym? Fran participated in the killing of the Devouring soldiers in P2V4. He got some cuts in.
え?フランはP2V4で兵士たちを殺すのに参加してたじゃん。ちゃんと手傷も負わせてたよ。普通くん
TheNightManager_89
You know, Roz runs more in this intro than in the entire series. Also, Fran is such a good guy.
ロズがこのイントロだけでシリーズ通してより走ってて草www あとフランはガチでいいやつやん2ちゃん
azopeFR
i mean in part 5 she runa a lot so that probaly only true for part 1 to 4
やばくね!?Part5ではめっちゃ走ってるじゃん笑 だからPart1〜4までしか当てはまらないかもね〜ギャル
Kuroser
For some positivity from me tho, I appreciate seeing the mayor's perspective right after Rozemyne takes the orphans from him. Didn't feel quite as dangerous in the novels when it was Ferdinand just explaining his perspective
確かに、ロゼマインに孤児たちを奪われた直後のマイヤーの視点が見れたのは良かったな。小説でフェルディナンドが彼の立場を説明してた時ほど危険な感じはしなかったね。普通くん
00-11_Public_534
原文
The contrast between Rozemyne, who cannot see her family, and her family in the slums, and the bond between Hasse’s orphans—who have not been separated from their sibilings—was heartbreaking. The scene where they reunited with Effa, exchanging only a few words, was also well done. What worries me is that this episode has so many omissions; I'm concerned that anime-only viewers might misunderstand Rozemyne as a typical selfish noble.
せやな…ロゼマインは家族に会えへんのに、ハッセの孤児たちは兄弟離ればなれにならんかった対比が泣けるンゴ。エファと再会したシーン、数言しか交わさへんかったのも良かったわ。ただ、今回のエピソード省略多すぎやろ。アニメ勢がロゼマインをただのワガママ貴族と勘違いしてないか心配やわ。2ちゃん
momomo_mochichi
原文
We're officially starting the second volume of Part 3. As always, Damuel is the best! Look at him encouraging Effa. And I really do like how we get to see so many hairpins for Rozemyne. HA! I can't get over how Kamil looks when Gunther is hiding under the blanket. Your father is doing his best! Is this the first time we've heard Nicola talk the entire series? Yay! And we love Fran as always. Pfft, we've replaced the chibis this episode with a lecture. Now that the harspiel concert is over, it seems we're back to rushing through scenes, and it's honestly such a shame. I feel like some scenes don't have the impact they should have.
いよいよ3部2巻に突入だね。相変わらずダームエルが最高!エーファを励ます姿がいいな。ローゼマインの髪飾りがたくさん見られるのも嬉しい。ガンターが布団に隠れてる時のカミルの反応、笑えるわ。父ちゃん頑張ってるよ!ニコラが喋ったのってシリーズ通して初めて?やったね!フランも相変わらずいいキャラしてる。ちびキャラから講義に変わったのは面白いな。ハープシュピールの演奏会が終わってからまた駆け足展開になってるのが残念。もっと印象的に描けるシーンもあると思うんだけどな。普通くん
Zekrit
was there a reason myne couldnt take her mother into the private room to speak openly with her mom? they seem to use it all the time with Lutz and Tuuli
マイネが母親を個室に連れて行って話せなかった理由ってあるんか?ルッツやトゥーリとは毎回使ってるやん2ちゃん
azopeFR
The scene literaly hapen in that private romm , but the contra canot be break
あのシーン確かに個室で起きてたけど、契約は破れないんだよね普通くん
Zekrit
i see that now. then maybe its just something im missing with the contract then, or the room itself.
確かにそうかも。契約か部屋自体に俺が見落としてる何かがあるんだろうな…モヤモヤするッ!感情くん
edeadensa
原文
The contract explicitly states that they "cannot treat eachother as family; they must treat her as the noble Rozemyne". They can speak without worry for mess-ups regarding ettiquete in the secret room, but the contract is still in effect. Gunther, Effa, Tuuli, and Kamil must maintain the emotional distance expected of commoner associates to a noble. Lutz gets around this and becomes the hug battery because he was not made to sign that contract.
契約書には明確に「家族として接してはならない。貴族ロゼマインとして扱え」って書いてあるんだよな。秘密の部屋ではマナーでミスっても大丈夫だけど、契約はまだ有効。ギュンター、エーファ、トゥーリ、カミルは平民として貴族に接する感情的な距離を保たなきゃいけない。ルッツは契約書にサインさせられなかったから、それを回避して抱きつきバッテリーになってるんやな。2ちゃん
Zekrit
Yeah I figured that was a point I was forgetting about not treating her like family. That's why I asked instead of hunting down the episode and timestamp to see the contract again.
そうだよね、家族として扱ってなかったって点を見落としてたわ。だからエピソード探して契約書を確認するより、聞いた方がいいと思ったんだ。普通くん
Kuroser
The room lets her drop the noble facade socially, but the magic contract isn't society. If Effa were to treat Myne as anything but Rozemyne, her life would be forfeit
それな……。部屋では貴族の仮面を外せるけど、魔法契約は社会のルールじゃないんだよな。もしエファがマインをロゼマイン以外として扱ったら、命が危ないんだ。重すぎるッ!感情くん
fishbiscuit13
原文
She would need a reason to summon her to the temple in the first place. A noble can’t just summon a random commoner. Lutz and Tuuli already have business relationships with Rozemyne. The scene between them happens in the hidden room, where Rozemyne can drop the facade somewhat, but Damuel is still a noble and wants/needs her to keep up appearances for everyone’s sake. They can show more emotion but can’t really speak, especially because Effa doesn’t yet know proper noble decorum.
まず神殿に呼び出す理由が必要だよね。貴族が適当な平民を呼べるわけじゃないし。ルッツとトゥーリはもうロゼマインと仕事上の関係がある。あの場面は隠し部屋で起きてて、ロゼマインは多少仮面を外せるけど、ダームエルは貴族だし、皆のために体裁を保たせたい。感情は見せられるけど、特にエファが貴族の作法をまだ知らないから、あまり話せないんだよね。普通くん
Chance_Highlight_949
Don't misunderstand - with Lutz she's free to do whatever she wants in that room, but with Tuuli and Eefa there is contract magic, so even in private they can't behave like family. They are contracted to act towards RM as to a real noble, so they use polite language there too
なるほど、その考察は鋭いな。ルッツと一緒の部屋では自由に振る舞えるが、トゥーリとエーファには契約魔法がかかっているため、プライベートな空間でも家族のように接することができないという点か。彼女たちはローゼマインに対して本物の貴族として振る舞う契約を結んでいるから、そこでも敬語を使う必要がある、というのが重要な伏線だと思われる。制作陣は魔法契約の厳格さを描くことで、身分制度の非情さを強調しているんだろうな。考察くん
Zekrit
Yeah contract magic was probably the past i was missing alongside her interactions with Lutz and the merchant guy(can't think of his name atm). For some reason I was thinking Myne had acted similarly with Tuuli previously but after I skimmed through previous episodes I realized it was only speech that was more open and not really the physical interactions.
せやな、契約魔法はワイが忘れてた過去の伏線やったわ。ルッツやあの商人(名前出てこんけど)との絡みも含めてな。なんとなくミュンナがトゥーリにも同じように接してた気がしたけど、過去話をざっと見直したら口調がフランクなだけで、物理的なスキンシップはなかったンゴwww2ちゃん
Chance_Highlight_949
原文
New plot starts which I assume means it's vol 2 now. Gunther and Effa are a joy to see. I'm very happy mama gets to use Tuuli's excuse to see Myne. I was so worried Gunther will break character or that the other guards will recognize Myne... New hungry&angry kids, yay. I would've thought all kids would go with Myne, but street smart ones that are not completely desperate, WOULD be careful around new people so that checks. It's unpleasant to see them take it out on Myne. Why does Myne even have to be the one teaching them things? Leave it to Fran/Gil? Poor Fran had to get violence here. Really reminds me of how Lutz started beating the shit out of Gil in a similar situation and Fran was all alarmed and innocent boy.
新しいプロットが始まったってことは、多分2巻だね。グンターとエファが見られて嬉しいよ。ママがトゥーリの言い訳を使ってマインに会いに行くのが最高。グンターがキャラ崩壊したり、他の護衛がマインに気づいたりしないか心配だったんだ…。新しい腹ペコで怒ってる子供たち、やったね。全員がマインについていくと思ってたけど、街中で生き抜いてきた子たちは完全に追い詰められてない限り、新しい人には慎重になるよね。それは納得。でも彼らがマインに八つ当たりするのは気分悪いな。なんでマインが教えなきゃいけないんだよ。フランやギルに任せればいいのに。フランが暴力を受けるのはかわいそう。ルッツが似た状況でギルをぶん殴り始めて、フランが驚いてる純粋な少年だったのを思い出すわ。普通くん
Mehmy
原文
I was so worried Gunther will break character or that the other guards will recognize Myne... Basically no guards ever saw her. The only one who really did was Otto, and he knows to shut the hell up. Even the ones who did see her wouldn't put it together though, and the reason is that you just simply wouldn't expect it to be her, especially when she speaks and acts in an entirely different way. Keep in mind that Gunther very publicly had a funeral for her, so even if a guard thinks for just a second that it might be her, he will remember that she died, and just think "huh that's weird". In the novels we're told that even her family struggled to recognise her from a distance because she just felt different. It's unpleasant to see them take it out on Myne. Why does Myne even have to be the one teaching them things? Leave it to Fran/Gil? She's the one in charge of the orphanage, so she took it upon herself to explain how it works because she likely feels responsible for them. It would probably fall to Wilma in the main temple, but there isn't really an alternative to her there yet
ガンテルがキャラ崩壊しねえか心配やったわ…他の警備兵がマインに気づくんちゃうかってな。基本的に誰も彼女見たことないしな。実際見たのはオットーくらいで、あいつは黙ってるってわかってる。見たことある奴でも結びつかんやろ、だって普通に考えてまさか本人やとは思わんし、話し方も振る舞いも全然違うしな。ガンテルが公に葬式やってんの忘れんなよ、警備兵が一瞬「あれ?」と思っても「死んだはず」って思い直すだけや。原作でも家族ですら遠くから見たら別人みたいで認識できんかったって書いてたわ。
マインに当たり散らすのは見てて辛いンゴ。なんでマインが教えなあかんねん。フランやギルに任せろや。いや孤児院の責任者やし、自分で説明するって決めたんやろな。たぶんウィルマにやらせるべきなんやろうけど、今は代わりがおらんしな。2ちゃん
Albireookami
I was so worried Gunther will break character or that the other guards will recognize Myne... Myne is a cryptid, no one really knows her in the commoner town, as we saw from the OVA when Ferdinand had his retainers investigate Myne. Very, very few people knew her.
ギュンターがキャラ崩壊しないかとか他の護衛がマインに気づかないか心配だったんだよね… マインって都市伝説みたいなもんで、平民街じゃほとんど知られてないんだよ。OVAでフェルディナンドが部下に調査させた時もそうだったし、知ってる人はごくわずかだな。普通くん
ffxivdia
Wahhh seeing Gunther and rozemyne makes me all teary eyed!!!! I’m watching this with my bf and he is constantly amazed at how naive rozemyne is. It’s really fun for me to watch his reaction and me as a book reader knowing what will happen next.
ガンテルとローゼマイン見てワイ涙腺崩壊やんけ!!!彼氏と一緒に見てるんやけど、ローゼマインの純粋さに毎回驚いてて草。原作読んでるワイはこれから何が起きるか知ってるから、彼氏のリアクション見るのがめっちゃ面白いンゴwww2ちゃん
ManinaPanina
Like I feared, past episode was like Aphotecary Diaries Season 1 Episode 4. A single standalone episode with better animation. Back to ugly. And as I'm sure people with better memory than me knows better, the script shouldn't be any better.
やっぱり前回の話は薬屋のひとりごと1期4話みたいだったな。単発で作画良かっただけで、また元のクオリティに戻っちゃった。俺より記憶力いい人ならわかってると思うけど、脚本も大して良くなかったしね。普通くん
InterestingSector404
This ep almost make me cried. Effa meet her daughter Myne n Fran's anger scene are the one making my eyes water. Well done.
泣いた。このエピソードまじで泣いた。エファが娘のマインと会うシーンとフランが怒るシーンで目が潤みすぎたッ!最高の出来だよ、優勝。感情くん
LinkssOfSigil
原文
I'm kind of baffaled by the scene with the mayor (plus another reason to check out LN, Dragon-Gods help me with that deep dive). Another example of nobility just YOLO-facerolling the situation with no concerns of everybody else's position and circumstances. If only Ferdinand and Myne were to question/interrogate the mayor about the kids and his reluctance and then hush it out with the noble that wanted to purchase them, the whole thing could be dissolved much more amicably... Although, if there is any sort of cut content from LN that complicates situation even further, I'd be glad to hear it out. But as it is - a lesson in clever political maneuver would be of more value than lesson in ruthlessness. Especially if Yurgenschmitd wants to grow as a nation.
市長とのシーンにはちょっと困惑したな(あと、これが原作小説を読むもう一つの理由になる。神々よ、深掘りに力を貸してくれ)。貴族が他の人の立場や事情を全く無視して、好き勝手に状況をぶっ飛ばしてる例だよね。フェルディナンドとマインが、子供たちと市長の渋りについて問い詰めて、購入希望の貴族に黙らせれば、もっと穏便に解決できたのに…でも、原作カットで状況がさらに複雑になってるなら、聞いてみたいけど。現状だと、冷酷さより賢い政治の動きの方が教訓として価値があると思う。特にユルゲンシュミットが国として成長したいならね。普通くん
Kuroser
原文
Spoilers for what I assume will be next week's episode: Yes, this is a problem that Rozemyne and Ferdinand have made for themselves. The mayor selling the orphans is evidently the responsible thing for him to do, thus right now they are the villains. Ferdinand will acknowledge this, and thus work to amend this after scolding Rozemyne on her actions. Rozemyne basically stole another noble's property by abusing her authority, putting Hasse as a whole in a precarious situation. Ferdinand will use Hasse as a learning opportunity for her, making her create an opposing faction to the mayor to replace him(Because he committed the crime of blatantly rebelling against the archduke's adopted daughter's orders by not bringing out every orphan he had)
次週のネタバレやけどな:ローゼマインとフェルディナンドが自ら招いた問題やで。市長が孤児を売るのは明らかに責任ある行動やから、今のところこいつらが悪役やねん。フェルディナンドはそれを認めて、ローゼマイン叱った後に改善しようとするわ。ローゼマインは権力乱用して他の貴族の所有物を奪った形やから、ハッセ全体が危うい立場になっとる。フェルディナンドはハッセを学習機会にして、市長に対抗する派閥を作らせて代わりを用意させるんや(市長は孤児全員出さなかった時点で公然と大公の養女の命令に反抗した罪を犯しとるからな)。2ちゃん
LinkssOfSigil
原文
I know as much, but thank you nonetheless. Though, I would say that Myne is more of a fall girl who, really, didn't knew any better (those are still her babysteps of handling business as a noble, after all). The real effjobs are Sylvester and Frrdinand - right at the conclusion of the test meal at the restaurant. They could very well take the situation and work it out with Myne piece by piece in a teaching-learning manner instead of zooming out to build the damn temple like their crotches were on fire. And while it's more or less in Sylv's character (and another reason to give him a boot to the head)... where the sweet mother Asha was Ferdinand's shit-o-meter and leash to tug his brother with?
まあそれは分かってるけど、ありがとう。でも、マインはどっちかっていうと、本当に何も分かってなかった被害者だと思うよ(貴族としての商談なんてまだまだ赤ちゃんの一歩目だしね)。本当にクソなのはジルヴェスターとフェルディナンドの方だよ。レストランでの試食会の終わり際にさ。あの状況なら、二人でマインと一緒に教えながら少しずつ解決していけたはずなのに、焦って神殿を建て始めるなんてまるで股間が燃えてるみたいだった。まあ、それはジルヴェスターの性格的にありえるけど(蹴り飛ばしたくなる理由がまた増えたな)…フェルディナンドの分別メーターと兄貴を引き戻すリードはどこに行ったんだよ?普通くん
adevaleev
Aww, no chibis this time.
ちびっ子おらんのかい!残念やなあ…2ちゃん
Majestic_Engine_6543
Its like they are making this show as 20 second tiktoks strung together to tell a story. The jarring time skips of Mynes conversations, to Lutz relaying, to her familys response, to Myne reading their response. Its been 7 episodes of this.
このアニメ、まるで20秒のTikTok動画をつなぎ合わせて話を作ってるみたいだよね。マインの会話→ルッツが伝える→家族の反応→マインが返事を読む、っていう時間の飛び方がガチャガチャしてて違和感ある。もう7話もこれ続いてるし。普通くん
justking1414
Soooo did this episode imply that Fran could teleport? Because he didn’t come in Myne s high beast and obviously wouldn’t have gone with the soldiers and left myne for multiple days. There was supposed to be a 3 day time skip during which Myne came back with him, but without that being mentioned, it seems like he just kinda appeared out of nowhere
草ァ!フラン瞬間移動できるんかよwww
だってあいつマインの高級ビーストに乗ってないし、兵士と一緒に何日も放置するわけないやん。
3日間のタイムスキップでマインと一緒に戻ってきたはずなのに、その説明なしだと突然湧いて出たみたいに見えるわw2ちゃん
Kuroser
Teleporting Fran using his instant transmission to make the slap hurt more
フランの瞬間移動でスライディングさせて、ビンタをより痛くしたの、笑えるw普通くん
justking1414
He ran At near light speed to deliver a full speed strike, just like the flash
草、まさにフラッシュそのものやんwww
光速級の速度で突っ込んでフルスピードの一撃かますとか、ガチでやばすぎるわ2ちゃん
FeistyDay5172
I most definitely have serious reservations about that shady mayor. Maybe we will get to see "Darth Myne" again?
あの怪しい町長にはマジで警戒しかないわ…。もしかして「ダース・マイン」再降臨とかある?あったら泣くッ!感情くん
Mysterious-Hurry-758
We would've seen it this episode, but the anime cut it out. She does slightly Crush Wilfried in the near future though
確かに、アニメではカットされちゃったね。でも近いうちにウィルフリートをちょっと圧倒するんだよな。普通くん
FajarKalawa
Hasse is here (50 more minutes)
ハッセ来たぞ(あと50分でな)2ちゃん
hibikir_40k
I am looking forward to the translation of the mayors' letter, as I bet it explains that he is on the hook for a couple of girls. Some say he is comically evil... but what is going on is that he is also in deep trouble because of Myne's actions.
町長の手紙の翻訳が楽しみだな。あれを見れば、彼が何人かの少女の件で責任を問われているのが分かるはず。彼を「コミカルな悪役」と評する声もあるが…マイネの行動で彼もまた深い窮地に陥っているという考察ができる。考察くん
Mysterious-Hurry-758
Hes comically evil because of his reaction after RM pays for the orphans.
RMが孤児たちのために金を払った後の彼の反応が、漫画みたいに悪役すぎて笑えるわ。普通くん
Mehmy
I'm not sure how I feel about the last shot of the Mayor saying they need at least Nora and looking nervous. It just feels off, because we don't get anything like that in the novels. The entire thing is covered from Rozemyne's PoV, so getting that bit feels out of place
市長が「最低でもノーラが必要だ」と言って焦っているラストカット、正直違和感があるんだよな。小説ではそういう描写は一切ないし、全てローゼマインの視点で語られているから、あのシーンだけ浮いてるという考察ができる。アニメ独自の演出として意図は理解できるが、原作の視点統一を重視する立場としては、やや不自然な追加だと思われる。考察くん
Mysterious-Hurry-758
I think its to show us that hes cooked if he loses those orphans. In season 3 of the anime, we see Wolf talking with Grausam when he was ordered to investigate Myne, when that clearly didn't happen in the books. This is another one of those types of scenes.
確かに、あの孤児たちを失ったら終わりだって示してるんだろうね。アニメ3期で、ヴォルフがグラオザムと話してるシーンがあったけど、あれ原作にはなかったし。そういう追加シーンのひとつって感じだな。普通くん
Mehmy
And I didn't quite like that scene either. We already learn their motivation, we don't need the scenes
確かにそれも分かるけど…でも俺はあのシーン好きじゃなかったな。動機はもう分かってるし、あのシーンいらなくね?感情くん
原文