日本三國

AutoLovepon
薪に臥して天を諭す
ついに殿器と再会した青輝だが、彼の瞳は全く別のものを見据えていた。「陛下より撤退の勅書を、賜りたく」と青輝が語る「撤退」の真意と、それでも反対する殿器。全ての判断は、帝に託される。
エピソードサムネイル
guynumbers
It’s interesting that the Tairas have their own master strategist capable of keeping up with Kaku’s plan.
平家にも鶴の策についていける名軍師がいるの、面白すぎるッ!感情くん
Named_after_color
I'm glad that the Tairas aren't completely blindsided by master plans, it makes them feel more like a capable threat.
Taira側が大作戦に完全に出し抜かれてないの嬉しい!ちゃんと有能な脅威って感じするじゃん!ギャル
Lapiz_lasuli
原文
I don't know if I'm misreading this, but I think Taira is genuinely drawn to Misumi. He humored him that when he killed his wife, and killed the other dude. Probably admired his intelligence and resolve to talk logic at that place. He humored him again in front of the palace and killed the dude that stopped him. Probably wanted to see what Misumi -3 years later- has brought up. I heard something like disappointment when he pointed that the plan might be revenge by killing his son. It'd be really great writing that Tiara is a ruthless logic monster, that sees a bit of himself in Misumi and doesn't mind losing to someone superior to him. But this is just my imagination.
読み違えかもしれないけど、Tairaは本気でMisumiに惹かれてる気がする。妻を殺した時も邪魔者を殺した時も付き合ってやってて、たぶんあの状況で理屈を通す知性と覚悟に感心してたんじゃないかな。3年後の成長も見たかったんだと思う。冷徹な論理の怪物が自分に似た相手を認めて負けを厭わない、って設定なら神脚本だよね。まあ妄想だけど。普通くん
Solorainel
I think so too. He could just give the order and be done with Misumi, but it feels like he's interested enough to let him talk and try to thwart his plans.
それな。命令出せば三角なんて終わりやのに、あえて喋らせて策を潰すの楽しんでる感あるわ。2ちゃん
Bobblefighterman
I think he also just forgot about Buo through his lust to kill Ryomon, then take over the military and become Shogun and has to let Misumi win to maintain the power and physical integrity of the very nation he wants to control. He's smart enough to realise that Misumi is correct, and his plan will fuck him over later on.
平殿器は龍門を殺すことに夢中になってブオの存在を忘れてたんだろうな。その後は軍を掌握して将軍になって、青輝に勝たせざるを得なくなる。自分が支配したい国の力と存続のためにね。彼は賢いから、青輝の言う通りで、自分の計画が後で自分を破滅させると気づいてるんだと思う。普通くん
manquistador
He is still the strongest force on what is shaping up to the strongest nation. It isn't like he is losing anything.
今んとこ最強国家になりそうなとこの最強戦力のままじゃん!別に何も失ってなくね?ギャル
Ytilee
原文
I really doubt Taira being "a ruthless logic monster". The scene where they talk about it has him loosing his game of Shogi quite early which probably signifies his relative incompetency or how distracted he is. He is certainly fascinated by this young person, but if he cared about intelligence and competency he wouldn't have almost everyone around him being fools and yes-men. Him letting Misumi do his thing for a while when presented with an alternate easier plan to get rid of him is most likely to signify complacency.
平殿器が「冷酷な論理の怪物」ってのは正直疑問だな。将棋を早々に負けてる描写は、彼の無能さや気の散り具合を表してると思う。確かにあの若者には興味津々だけど、有能さを重んじるなら周りをバカとイエスマンだらけにしないでしょ。三角を泳がせてるのも慢心の表れじゃないかな。普通くん
A-t-t-e-n-TI-ON
原文
Aoteru's charisma is so great that he got the court who initially made fun of him to hang on to his every word. I really love the wordplay they did with Kaku's instructions. I initially thought it was only about convincing the Emperor, but it was actually a brief instruction on what the plan is going forward. But Asama is right, only people like Aoteru and Kaku will probably be the only ones who will understand and try to dissect messages like that. I'm also a bit proud with Fuji III here. I did pity him since his only option to survive is to be the Taira's puppet. He was only a child when they made him marry Taira's daughter, who was wayyy older than him, and he knew that his predecessor is assassinated by the same. Despite that, he still manage to muster enough courage to make the edict right in front of the court. I do worry about what's going to happen to him though, and by extension the Borderland Corps once they win the war. I've always wondered what's up with Taira's Deputy Minister since he's probably the only person that he tolerates around him, as shown when he lost a game of shogi to him without any negative reaction. He's also shown to be quite knowledgeable with military tactics and was among the few who did not make fun of Aoteru in court.
青輝のカリスマは絶大なり…嘲笑した宮廷すら彼の一言に縋りついた。鶴の言葉遊びも見事。だが青輝や鶴のごとき者しか真意を解けぬのだ。 Fuji IIIも誇らしい。傀儡たる運命に生まれ、暗殺の恐怖を知りながら、朝廷の眼前で勅を発する勇気を振り絞った。戦後の彼と辺境将軍の行く末が案じられるのだ。平の次官も謎多き人物…将棋に負けても動じぬ度量と兵法の知、青輝を嘲笑わぬ数少なき者よ。中二病
a1oner_bvcksn6
原文
I've always wondered what's up with Taira's Deputy Minister since he's probably the only person that he tolerates around him Maguro's the name and he's got game lol. Joking aside, it's quite clear Maguro is Denki's very own version of (a) Kaku. And as the saying goes-- "behind a great leader is a great strategist" something something. marry Taira's sister Denki's daughter (fify) Despite that, he still manage to muster enough courage to make the edict right in front of the court I honestly think he was more scared than anything when making that decision, especially considering that's exactly what Aoteru wanted him to feel when he brought up the Buo faction potentially entering the fray. Aoteru basically painted the emperor a grim picture and after weighing which option was more frightening, he simply opted to avoid that one. Edit: I mean, the emperor is so naive I don't think he actually believes his father in law is his enemy. Keep in mind, he was groomed to be the emperor--not made to be the emperor. He's under the illusion that he makes his own decisions rather than someone who's wearing an earpiece just waiting for someone to tell him what decision must be made. But sure, credit where it's due, I guess. That's no doubt "strike one" tho (twice more and his head may roll)
MaguroってT普通くん
BosuW
Joking aside, it's quite clear Maguro is Denki's very own version of (a) Kaku. And as the saying goes--"behind a great leader is a great strategist" something something. You could really apply this to so many characters in this show. I imagine it will be a recurring theme. Very shippable
冗談はさておき、MaguroはDenkiにとってのKakuなのは明白なのだ。偉大なる導き手の背後には智謀の者あり…実に尊い絆だ。中二病
sukeban
The two genders: general and strategist. /jk
性別は2つだけ、将軍か軍師や。冗談やで草2ちゃん
bushwarblerssong
原文
Sorry, a 2-part comment again. All heads of state in Nippon Sangoku have flowers in their names: Ouga ( 桜 虎) - cherry blossom , Fuji ( 藤 ) - wisteria , and Momokuni ( 桃 邦) - peach blossom . Tsurinobuse (釣り野伏せ) or "feigned retreat" is a military tactic strongly associated with the Shimazu clan in Kyushu during the Sengoku period. Despite their smaller numbers, the clan was able to beat far larger armies by making use of natural barriers and luring their enemies into ambushes where hidden troops, experienced with matchlock arquebuses, would shoot from both sides. The Shimazu clan was the first clan in Japan to bring firearms into battle. This English blog goes into more detail about their strategy. (Though not quite the same, Ouga's plan also relies on natural barriers and luring the enemy.) Nagamine shouts in Kagoshima-ben or more specifically, Satsugū dialect. The Shimazu clan ruled over the Satsuma domain , which is associated with this dialect. ("Chesuto" is a rallying cry like "ganbare!" or "let's do this!") Aoteru quotes Sun Tzu from Chapter 3 of The Art of War : Sun Tzu said: In the practical art of war, the best thing of all is to take the enemy’s country whole and intact; to shatter and destroy it is not so good. So, too, it is better to recapture an army entire than to destroy it, to capture a regiment, a detachment or a company entire than to destroy them. Hence to fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy’s resistance without fighting. Maguro quotes Lao Tzu from the 56th chapter of the Tao Te Ching : " He who knows does not speak. He who speaks does not know." We have some wordplay during the scene with the emperor (which wasn't translated) and then after while Denki and Maguro play shogi (Japanese chess) . Aoteru speaks of scrapped cars or “haisha” (廃車) as part of his feigned retreat strategy. But in Japanese, "dentist" is also pronounced “haisha” (歯医者) , which is what the emperor thinks Aoteru's plan involves. (I mean, dentists can be terrifying and imagine a bunch of them suddenly raining down on you from all sides with their scalers.) As they discuss what to do with Aoteru (which brings us back to the carriage scene in Episode 1), Maguro advances a Flying Chariot 飛車 (Hisha) or Rook, on the shogi board. When promoted, a hisha becomes a Dragon King 龍王 (Ryūō) , which is engraved on the opposite side of the piece. This likely symbolizes Aoteru's scrapped car strategy and Ryūmon's army. When Denki says he needs Ryūmon, Kaku and their army to win, he advances a 角行 ( Kaku gyō) or Bishop. When promoted, a Kaku gyō becomes a Dragon Horse 龍馬 (ryūma or ryūme). (I find Maguro more frightening than Denki. Denki is intrigued with Aoteru enough to want to see what he will do in the future. But Maguro has identified our protagonist as a threat to be eliminated immediately since the very first episode where he questioned his lord if leaving Aoteru alive was wise.) Does Denki like rabbits because they are soft or because white rabbits have a reputation for being clever in Japanese folktales? The White Hare of Inaba . Momokuni's clan, the Hōjō clan , assisted the Minamoto (historical Yoshitsune’s clan) in defeating the Taira before they took the shogunate from the Minamoto and full control of the imperial court, exiling Emperor Go-Toba to the Oki Islands (the same island where the legend of the White Hare of Inaba begins) during the Kamakura Period. They are also known for repelling the Mongol invasions (Ghost of Tsushima anyone?) and spreading Zen Buddhism. Hōjō Masako , who was married to Minamoto no Yoritomo (Yoshitsune’s brother and orchestrator of his death) is one of the most famous female samurai in history.
- 日本三國の元首はみんな名前に花が入ってる(桜虎=桜、藤、桃邦=桃) - 釣り野伏せは戦国時代の島津氏の戦術。少数で大軍を破った - 長嶺は鹿児島弁(薩摩の言葉)で叫んでる - Aoteruは孫子、Maguroは老子を引用 - 「廃車」と「歯医者」の言葉遊びもあったね - 将棋の飛車→龍王がAoteruの策と龍門軍を象徴してるっぽい - 個人的にはDenkiよりMaguroの方が怖い。最初からAoteruを排除すべき脅威と見てるからね普通くん
bushwarblerssong
原文
You can now own your very own Yamato army uniform (or button or handkerchief) . Comes in four different styles: Aoteru, Yoshitsune, Ryūmon and Kaku. Located in Echizen City in Fukui, Ota (織田) is the ancestral home of Oda Nobunaga and where the Oda clan received its name. Nobunaga was said to have descended from the priests in Ota of Tsurugi Shrine, which is over 1,800 years old and has a connection to the Taira. In 1161, the shrine was burned to the ground by Taira no Kiyomori (one of Denki's likely inspirations), but then was rebuilt by his son, Taira no Shigemori, three years later. The shrine is named after Susanoo-no-Mikoto (also known as Tsurugi Ōkami), but is also known as Ota Myōjin. We saw a statue of Oda Nobunaga and the crab statue at the Echizen Crab Museum (one of the Fukui locations involved in the stamp rally to promote the anime). Aoteru mentioned eating Echizen crabs with Saki in Episode 5. Daishōji (大聖寺) is a castle town that makes up the central part of Kaga City today. Musashikuni (武蔵邦) likely comes from Musashi Province (武蔵国) which encompassed parts of Tokyo, Kanagawa and Saitama, which are presently part of the Buo nation. Like Daishizan Seidai-ji Temple where Ouga's troops are based, Kaga Daikannon , the giant Kannon statue behind Nagamine and his troops, was erected in the late 1980s during the Bubble era. Like Yamato, the names in Buō sound somewhat archaic, but aren’t too unusual, making Seii stand out even more. I think the uniqueness of the Seii names emphasize their wild nature (Aterui was the leader of a Bōsōzoku gang and Ouga's name sounds like a Sukeban leader ), and their Ainu and Emishi origins. Their tattoos at least are likely influenced by Ainu culture (except for Aterui’s). On the topic of music and Kevin Penkin , in the U-Next interview with Studio Kafka on Nippon Sangoku recently uploaded to youtube, the producer Kōichi Naruse mentioned that they were asked to score and animate the Japan in the series from the perspective of someone from outside the country, and that's why there's not only Japanese instrumental music, but jazz and a mix of other genres throughout the episodes. Anyway, he was very grateful for Penkin and wants the audience to take note of the music when watching. Glossary ( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 ) 【Winter Shogun Strategy】 A grand strategy devised by Seii Commander-in-Chief Ouga Wajima to wipe out the Yamato army that takes advantage of her country's terrain and climate. The plan is to lure the Taira forces to Seirō, a natural fortress surrounded by the sea, mountains and rivers, and decimate them with the bitter cold.
・大和軍の制服グッズ販売開始やで、4種類(Aoteru/Yoshitsune/龍門/Kaku) ・織田信長ゆかりの越前や剣神社など実在地ネタ満載 ・音楽はKevin Penkin、外国目線でジャズも混ぜたらしいわ、要注目やで ・聖夷の名前が特異なのはアイヌ・蝦夷由来ってことやな2ちゃん
GrimMind
Sorry, a 2-part comment again. How dare you give me more of what I come for?
すまぬ、また二部構成のコメントでござる。拙者の求めるものをさらに寄越すとは、なんたる所業でござるか?武士
bushwarblerssong
Don't tempt me.
誘惑しないでくれ。普通くん
Physical_Echo_9372
原文
Misumi's "calm yourself" (そう興奮しないでください, literally "don't get excited - but the word for excite is also a synonym for arouse), in response to the suggestion that he should be executed, is likely a reference to the former Japanese PM Abe's viral response to an MP during a diet session, where he used almost the exact same words. It's very niche. But an incredibly viral moment in Japan, and I'm sure listeners in Japan would recall the moment when they heard this.
三角の「そう興奮しないでください」(興奮という単語は「性的興奮」の意味も持つ)は、処刑を提案された返答として使われてるけど、これは故・安倍元首相が国会で議員に放ったバズった一言のオマージュだと思われる。かなりニッチだけど、日本の視聴者ならこのシーンで元ネタを思い出すはず。考察くん
bushwarblerssong
Yes! Great catch, it’s absolutely a reference to it. I don’t think it’s niche anymore when even high school girls are imitating it.
そうだな。よく気づいた、完全にそれのネタだろう。女子高生まで真似してるなら、もうニッチとは言えないな。ドライおじ
raidensnakeezio
原文
I was looking forward to rush to the comments to see if anyone could analyze the shogi scene, so lo and behold, the Nippon Sangoku GOAT has provided as such. The show is ridiculously effective and economical with storyboarding and arranging the narrative in a way where the voice actors can maximize their delivery of their lines. Big props to the production staff and to all the voice cast, my heart trembled this episode once again. Aoteru's blue flame eyes have seemed to pass down to Tsune-chan to some extent, as well as Fuji III and possibly even Ryumon to an even lesser extent. Part of me wonders if narratively/thematically, this is an allusion to the Mandate of Heaven, or the "will/invisible hand" of ”天下泰平.”
将棋シーンの考察ないかコメント欄に急いで来たら、案の定日本三國のGOATが解説くれてて草。この作品ガチで演出も語りも効率的で、声優が最大限に活きるようになっとるわ。制作陣と声優陣に拍手やろ。今回もワイの心震えたわ。Aoteruの青い炎の目がTsune-chanにも受け継がれとる感じやん。これって天下泰平の「見えざる手」の暗示なんかな2ちゃん
bushwarblerssong
😆 Part of me wonders if narratively/thematically, this is an allusion to the Mandate of Heaven, or the "will/invisible hand" of ”天下泰平.” Interesting!
😆 物語的・テーマ的に、これって天命とか「天下泰平」の意志/見えざる手の暗示なのかなって思う。面白いね!普通くん
Limp_Mammoth_816
Give someone a taste of their own medicine
同じ目に遭わせてやれッ!感情くん
FarCritical
The idea of war dentists is both hilarious and terrifying
戦歯医者という発想、笑えるのに恐ろしくもあり、まこと奇怪でござる。武士
bushwarblerssong
I wish they kept it in the subtitles, but I'm not sure how they'd be able to translate it. It must be odd to see that random dentist appear on the screen without any context.
字幕に残してほしかったけど、どう訳せばいいか分からないな。説明なしで急に歯医者が出たら変だよね。普通くん
AriOnReddit22
Even without knowing Japanese I could figure out there must have been some lost in translation and some word Aoteru used had to sound like dentist in Japanese for the emperor to misunderstand like that. It's not the same as hearing the pun, but you could figure it out through visual cues pretty easily.
日本語知らなくても、翻訳で落ちたネタなのは分かった。Aoteruの言葉が歯医者っぽく聞こえたんだろう。絵で察せたな。ドライおじ
bushwarblerssong
That’s good to hear. Should have known that the type of audience watching this far would be able to figure it out. 😉
それはよかった。ここまで見てる視聴者なら、ちゃんと気づけるって分かってるべきだったね😉普通くん
PBTUCAZ
原文
Yes ...As the perimeter began to be overrun, it became increasingly difficult for Captain Salomon to work on the wounded. He then saw a Japanese soldier bayoneting one of the wounded soldiers lying near the tent. Firing from a squatting position, Captain Salomon quickly killed the enemy soldier. Then, as he turned his attention back to the wounded, two more Japanese soldiers appeared in the front entrance of the tent. As these enemy soldiers were killed, four more crawled under the tent walls. Rushing them, Captain Salomon kicked the knife out of the hand of one, shot another, and bayoneted a third. Captain Salomon butted the fourth enemy soldier in the stomach and a wounded comrade then shot and killed the enemy soldier. Realizing the gravity of the situation, Captain Salomon ordered the wounded to make their way as best they could back to the regimental aid station, while he attempted to hold off the enemy until they were clear. Captain Salomon then grabbed a rifle from one of the wounded and rushed out of the tent. After four men were killed while manning a machine gun, Captain Salomon took control of it. When his body was later found, 98 dead enemy soldiers were piled in front of his position. Captain Salomon’s extraordinary heroism and devotion to duty are in keeping with the highest traditions of military service and reflect great credit upon himself, his unit, and the United States Army.
負傷兵を治療中に敵に囲まれたサロモン大尉、テントに突入する日本兵を次々撃退。仲間を退避させ、自分は機関銃で敵を食い止めたンゴ…遺体の前には敵兵98人の死体の山が積まれてたらしいわ。ガチで英雄すぎやろ2ちゃん
miyanotopguuuun
Clarification: Ghost of Tsushima is the game with Mongol invasion, not Ghost of Yotei
補足:蒙古襲来のゲームはGhost of Tsushimaで、Ghost of Yoteiじゃないよ。普通くん
bushwarblerssong
Ack, I don't know why I didn't notice what I was typing when Yotei is on the opposite end of the country. Thank you!
あちゃー、Yoteiって国の反対側なのに何打ってたんだ俺w 気づかなかったわ笑 ありがとう!wwwおじ
gamria
原文
Tsurinobuse (釣り野伏せ) or "feigned retreat" is a military tactic strongly associated with the Shimazu clan in Kyushu during the Sengoku period. Despite their smaller numbers, the clan was able to beat far larger armies by making use of natural barriers and luring their enemies into ambushes where hidden troops, experienced with matchlock arquebuses, would shoot from both sides. The Shimazu clan was the first clan in Japan to bring firearms into battle. This English blog goes into more detail about their strategy. (Though not quite the same, Ouga's plan also relies on natural barriers and luring the enemy.) Fun fact: "feigned retreat" was also part of the very first strategy employed by Zhuge Liang, per The Romance of the Three Kingdoms ' telling of The Battle of Bowang Slope In that battle, general Zhao Yun and commander Liu Bei feigned defeat and retreat, thereby encouraging the opposing Wei forces to follow after them into the valley. By nightfall when Wei forces wished to back out for fear of ambush, they're already too deep into a narrow position to evacuate swiftly. The ambush was then sprung and fires were set ablaze all around, leading to a massive victory for Liu Bei's forces. Additionally, fresh off of Zhuge Liang's recruitment, Liu Bei's sworn brothers Guan Yu and Zhang Fei both still had doubts about him after the way their brother had to (in their eyes) disgrace himself to enlist him. After this battle, all doubts were dispelled and they treated the strategist with full respect. (Historians though recount the strategy slightly differently, and it was credited solely to Liu Bei himself) How much of this will be echoed in Aoteru's struggles I wonder?
釣り野伏せは戦国時代の島津氏が得意とした戦術で、少数でも自然の地形を使って大軍を破ったんだ。日本で最初に火器を戦に持ち込んだのも島津。Ougaの策も地形と誘い込みが軸だよね。この「偽りの退却」は三国志の博望坡の戦いで諸葛亮が使った策でもある。青輝の戦いにどう重なるのか楽しみだな。普通くん
bushwarblerssong
Very cool fact! I really need to sit down and go through Romance and the Records. Interesting that it was credited to Zhuge Liang instead of Liu Bei only. Was it to pad Zhuge Liang’s already long list of accomplishments in Romance or was there another reason?
へえ、めっちゃ面白いやん!ワイも三国志演義と正史読まなあかんな。劉備じゃなく諸葛亮扱いなの、盛ったんか2ちゃん
gamria
原文
Before I answer, one thing that must be emphasised is that The Romance of the Three Kingdoms is a Historical Fiction Novel, writing about events that happened 1200+ years ago in the early AD's while basing them on records that'll have plenty of gaps and biases. Its writings should not be taken for accurate historical facts, as much as fans wish for them to be so at times. As a historical fiction, the author(s) wished to insert messages of valour, honour and morality, and Liu Bei/Zhuge Liang's faction of Shu Han (or commonly just Shu) was used as a biased vehicle in itself for that purpose. They kind of made Liu Bei the "nice" and "cleaner" leader while embellishing Zhuge Liang's intelligence and masterminded-ness who is stricter and comes up with colder ideas/decisions at times. (Even if we know Zhuge Liang is embellished, what's more important to us wound up him becoming the "ideal" we strove for, of mind over might. There is good reason why us East Asians have a great soft spot for smart victories using less resources over ones gained by dumb overwhelming might) But as far as The Battle of Bowang is concerned, it's partially because there's room for interpretation for what Zhuge Liang's earlier days with Shu was like, between The Three Visits when he was recruited and his participation in brokering the Liu Bei-Sun Quan alliance against Cao Cao (leading to the pivotal Battle of Red Cliffs). Thus was Bowang written the way it was in the novel, as a segway to show his tactical brilliance in "isolation", an interpretation of how he earned his authority and respects and smoothed his relationship with the rest of the army.
まず前提として、三国志演義は1200年以上前の史実を基にしたフィクションで、正確な歴史じゃないんだよね。作者は勇気や忠義を描くために劉備を「善い」指導者に、諸葛亮の知略を誇張してる。博望坡の戦いも彼の戦術の才を見せるために書かれた感じ。普通くん
bushwarblerssong
原文
Thank you. If you’re not a lecturer of Chinese literature and history, you definitely ought to be. I find Romance (and Records) of the Three Kingdoms to be kind of daunting and ancient Chinese history while very interesting overwhelming in general, but your insightful comment is encouraging me to sit down with these different works to at least compare their descriptions of Lu Bei and Zhuge Liang in the battle. I was aware that Romance of the Three Kingdoms is a fictional retelling (Matsuki has also likened his series to Romance as an embellished retelling where he inserted humor and pomp to remind us of that), but even if it should be obvious, it didn’t occur to me that some of Zhuge Liang’s accomplishments aren’t just exaggerations, but someone’s own. Given that people in China are better acquainted with the actual history and more exposed to new discoveries in the archaeological record, have interpretations of Zhuge Liang and other figures or events during that period changed at all in the recent decades? Are certain figures viewed in a different light in China today compared to the rest of East Asia? Outside of academia, does the general public treat Zhuge Liang - the historical figure and Zhuge Liang - the mythological ideal separately? Also, do you recommend any recent Chinese productions on the period, including adaptations of Romance and Records of the Three Kingdoms that could be helpful when reading both? Sorry for all of the questions. You’re so good at breaking things down for a layperson like me.
ありがとう。あなたが中国文学史の講師じゃないなら、絶対なるべきだよ。三国志演義(と正史)ってどうも敷居が高くて、古代中国史も面白いけど全体的に情報量が圧倒的なんだ。でもあなたの洞察に満ちたコメントに背中を押されて、少なくとも劉備と諸葛亮の戦いの描写を比較するために腰を据えて読んでみようと思えた。 演義が脚色された再話だとは分かってた(松木も自作を演義に例えて、ユーモアや誇張を挿入してるって言ってたし)。でも諸葛亮の功績の一部が誇張じゃなくて別人のものだって発想はなかった。 質問なんだけど: - 中国では実際の歴史や考古学的発見に触れる機会が多いから、諸葛亮ら人物や出来事の解釈はここ数十年で変わった? - 中国と他の東アジアで、特定の人物の見方に違いはある? - 一般大衆は歴史上の諸葛亮と神話的理想像の諸葛亮を分けて捉えてる? - 演義・正史の両方を読考察くん
gamria
原文
Thank you. If you’re not a lecturer of Chinese literature and history, you definitely ought to be. Thanks a lot, but my knowledge of Chinese literature and history is little more than that of a casual native whose immersed enough into its media offerings. I know enough of Chinese history thanks to attachment to my native roots, but my expertise in Chinese literature is like, 1/5 of mine with Japanese Anime/Manga? Not enough to be a lecturer either way. Given that people in China are better acquainted with the actual history and more exposed to new discoveries in the archaeological record, have interpretations of Zhuge Liang and other figures or events during that period changed at all in the recent decades? Outside of academia, does the general public treat Zhuge Liang - the historical figure and Zhuge Liang - the mythological ideal separately? While there's probably general subliminal admittance that the Zhuge Liang in Romance is a product of fiction and differs from fact, as with all distant legends your everyman isn't going to put that much brain power into thinking or researching about it; that is, most would like to live in the bliss that the difference is minimal, that fact is sufficiently alike fiction in personality and feats. It's like, similar to how your casual Japanese treats Oda Nobunaga? Regardless of whether his real-life deeds are so terrible or not, most regard him for what he represents, or used to represent, over his reality. Are certain figures viewed in a different light in China today compared to the rest of East Asia? Don't know, my frame of rest of East Asia isn't wide enough. At most I've only seen Japanese impressions, and from what I feel is their abbreviated/simplified tale of Romance is that they see the figures largely in the same light as us. Even in Asia, most without a strong attachment to our Chinese civilisation (as a historical whole) won't think so deeply about it. Also, do you recommend any recent Chinese productions on the period, including adaptations of Romance and Records of the Three Kingdoms that could be helpful when reading both? I can't speak for Records , I really haven't delved into that. But for Romance , the 1994 mainland drama ) of 84 episodes is a highly-regarded classic, to the point it's clipped/snapshotted for modern internet memes. The film quality is old by modern standards, but it's still worth experiencing, between the passion of the actors, the scale of the battles and certain musical pieces Fortunately I managed to find a fansub project that aimed to give it decent English subtitles. The project's like 90% complete, I'll Chat you the link Sorry for all of the questions. You’re so good at breaking things down for a layperson like me. Worry not, I can't say I'm much beyond a hobbyist on this front. My own acquaintance with this part of history came from first playing Dynasty Warriors 2 as a boy, and later watching the 1994 drama with my parents. So I have enough of a general timeline of how things went down and whose part of what factions. Beyond these, I haven't dove much outside of the romance. Who knows, maybe you with more curiosity and less attachment will be more willing to take the dive.
ありがとう、でもワイの中国文学の知識なんてアニメ・漫画オタクの1/5程度やで。講師なんて無理無理。 ・諸葛亮とか、庶民は史実と『演義』の理想像を分けてないやろな。信長を扱う日本人と一緒や ・オススメは1994年の大陸ドラマ『三国志』全84話。ガチで名作、ネットのミームにもなっとる。有志の英語字幕も9割完成しとるで ・ワイもDynasty Warriors 2から入った趣味人やしなw2ちゃん
bushwarblerssong
原文
I’m not sure you give yourself enough credit, but thank you for the recommendation and answering all of my questions! I’ve seen some memes before, but had no idea they were from the drama or what they were about. I wouldn’t say that Oda is treated with as much reverence from the public as Zhuge Liang who has a much more positive image in Japan, but it might’ve been different if he was from the 3rd century and not closer to our time. Dynasty Warriors seems like a gateway drug to the Three Kingdoms for many people. I don’t know how far I’ll get with these texts, but thank you again.
謙遜しすぎだと思うけど、おすすめと質問への回答ありがとう!ミームは見たことあったけど、あのドラマ由来だとは知らなかった。織田は諸葛亮ほど日本で崇拝されてないという印象だな。日本での諸葛亮のイメージは相当ポジティブだし。もし織田が3世紀の人物だったら扱いも違ったかもね。多くの人にとって三国無双が三国志への入口になってるって考察ができる。どこまで読み進められるか分からないけど、改めてありがとう。考察くん
apgp123
holy shit peak 10/10 episode bro was 10 steps ahead. 1 more episode for this season but its already anime of the year for me.
うおお神回10/10やん。アイツ10手先読んでて草。今季あと1話残ってるけど、ワイ的もう今年の覇権アニメやわ。2ちゃん
2rio2
By far the most interesting anime to come out in a while.
ここ最近出たアニメの中で、ダントツで一番おもろいじゃん!ギャル
tapeforpacking
Honestly imma just be honest here, one of the best anime of the decade at the very least I hope this show has a ton or source material and we can keep getting more seasons.
正直に言うけど、少なくともこの10年で最高クラスのアニメだと思う。原作ストック多くて、続きもどんどん来てほしい。普通くん
Deathly_Disappointed
原文
I can't believe next episode is the last one, this should’ve been a 25 ep season. Hopefully with it's sucess more scanlators will pick up the manga and we'll see some advance on the translation. I'm itching to try and figure out how to do it myself even thought I never did anything similar. btw this is the first time i'm actually seeing anime as a way to promote the original manga! I usually prefer manga over anime so, when a new one is announced, I’ve already been into the manga for ages... But had never heard of nippon sangoku until now, a hidden gem fr.
次で最終回とか信じられん、25話やるべきやろ…。成功で漫画翻訳進んでほしいわ。日本三國、隠れた名作すぎるやん。2ちゃん
YRO___
Man, I miss when animes had very long seasons. It's sad that all they care about now is profit, so they play it very safe by making extremely short seasons to test the waters. These types of animes absolutely need long seasons, otherwise you're left in the middle of a war, and by the time the second season comes out, most people would have forgotten almost everything that happened previously.
昔みたいに長いシーズンのアニメが恋しいな。今は利益優先で短く様子見ばかり。こういう作品は長くないと戦争の途中で切れて、2期の頃には皆忘れてる。普通くん
guineaprince
Eh I don't mind it. Kids shows go forever cuz ofc they do, but anime has always had short seasons more often than not.
まあ俺は別に気にしないw キッズ向けはそりゃ延々続くけど、アニメは昔から短いシーズン多めだしな笑wwwおじ
sukeban
Check the usual website, the scanlation of the first chapter of volume 5 has been released.
いつものサイト見ろ、5巻の第1話スキャン翻訳もう出てるぞ。2ちゃん
NanDemoKnaives
原文
The Emperor actually went against Taira! That was such a big moment, I figured it would head into that direction but it still surprised me to see it play out. The back and forth between Aoteru and Taira was interesting to watch, I like how that one strategist seemed to understand Aoteru's idea, though it seems like he's very close to Taira if they're playing shogi together.  I really like seeing when their eyes light up, it conveys so much. The Emperor's edict of withdrawal, Aoteru receiving it, Yoshitsune delivering it to Ryuumon, and then Ryuumon finally receiving it. Hopefully it'll go well, I want Kaku to at least hear of this win before he potentially passes.
皇帝がついに平(Taira)に逆らった!大きな展開だと思ってたけどいざ見ると驚いたわ。青輝と平のやり取り面白かったし、あの軍師が青輝の考えを理解してるのが良かった。目が光る演出は伝わるものが多いね。撤退の勅令が龍門に届く流れ、上手くいってほしい。鶴が逝く前にこの勝利を聞けますように。普通くん
a1oner_bvcksn6
原文
The shooting star to begin the episode was basically Aoteru shooting his (long) shot and fulfilling his promise to Saki with his own power instead of praying and wishing for a miracle to simply happen. He made it all happen himself, with a little help from Sun Tzu, of course, and the seeds Ryumon had planted in the heart and mind of the emperor much earlier on. That said, the highlight of the episode for me is easily Denki and Maguro playing shogi and discussing the Borderland Corp's (Kaku's) strategy as if they were in on it from the very beginning. It literally highlights the fact that Denki has been playing 5D chess all along and letting Aoteru (and to some extent Ryumon) get the win here was nothing more than just one part of a much grander scheme. Proves to show that there's more than just one winning strategy and Aoteru who had to take it upon himself and act to make something happen in his favor is not always the winning one. Sometimes, you also just have to sit back and let the pieces fall where they may. Man, I love this series so much. Wish the episodes were longer tho for real.
冒頭の流れ星は、青輝が奇跡を願うんじゃなく自力でサキとの誓いを果たした暗示だと思う。孫子と龍門が帝に蒔いた種のおかげでもあるが。 見どころは殿器と鮪の将棋シーン。全部見通して青輝に勝たせたのも壮大な計略の一部で、殿器が5次元チェスしてたと分かる。勝ち筋は一つじゃないんだよな。マジでこの作品好き、尺もっと欲しい。考察くん
PunningLynguist
Also, the end where Denki unexpectedly got checkmate'd could foreshadow that despite all his tactical planning and puppetmaster behaviour, he could get his comeuppance due to unforeseen circumstances
あとラストでDenkiが不意に詰まされたの、策士ムーブしてても予想外でしっぺ返し食らう伏線かもな2ちゃん
eyrington
I think Maguro may play major role in that route
そのルートだとMaguroがかなり重要な役割を持ちそうだと思う普通くん
Limp_Mammoth_816
Take advantage of the situation
この状況、利用しろッ!感情くん
BosuW
If he loses or ignores Moguro maybe
Moguroに負けるかスルーしたら、ワンチャンあるかも?ギャル
ObvsThrowaway5120
The Emperor might just be a Taira puppet, but I respect him actually taking a stand and siding with Musumi’s plan. Or rather, Kaku’s plan. I’ll admit I had no idea what the dude had cooked up. It’s pretty clever, that’s for sure. Now that Tsune’s reached Ryumon, the plan can come to motion but what about the Taira kid? Are they gonna be able to hold out long enough?
天皇は平のただの傀儡かもしれんけど、ちゃんと立場を示してムスミの案、いや鶴の案に付いたのは評価するわ。正直ワイあの男が何企んでたか全然わからんかったンゴ。でもガチで賢いのは間違いないな。ツネが龍門に着いたから作戦動き出すけど、平のガキはどうなるんや?持ちこたえられるんかな?2ちゃん
a1oner_bvcksn6
原文
Once Seii finds out about the imperial edict, that should throw them for a loop and stop all advances for a little bit. And once they decide to do their part and take the bait, I'm pretty sure they'd ease up the attack on Denki's kid so they can consolidate their forces to chase Yamato's/Ryumon's retreating troops--who are also gonna do their part to make it look to Seii that they are losing badly. In short, Denki's boy will be the least of Seii's concern as they turn their focus on crushing Yamato once and for all. He'll be safe as long as he doesn't run out to the battlefield like a general with a death wish lol. That's also why his father, Denki didn't do much to protest the emperor's decision at all.
聖夷が勅令を知ったら、一旦動揺して進軍が止まるはず。そして罠に乗ることにしたら、大和/龍門の退却軍を追うために戦力を集中させるだろうから、殿器の息子への攻撃も緩むと思う。龍門側もわざと負けてるように見せるしね。要するに聖夷の狙いは大和を叩き潰すことに移るから、殿器の息子は二の次になる。死にたがりの将軍みたいに戦場に飛び出さない限り安全ってわけw だから父の殿器も勅令にほとんど抵抗しなかったんだろうね。普通くん
Jacob-C
Ouga really wanting to kill Ryumon will most likely help Yamato get Seii on their tail when they retreat.
OugaがRyumon殺したがってるの、撤退時にYamatoがSeiiに追われる展開に繋がりそうじゃん。ギャル
Hot-Log6283
Not to mention because of the Empty Fort strategy that Ryumon employed previously, there is probably a strong incentive for them to push forward even if Ouga think there is a chance for ambush she probably won't be able to stop again. Everything seems to be lining up quite dangerously for them.
前に龍門が空城計かましたせいで、罠っぽくても突っ込む流れやろな。Ougaが疑ってもまた止められん。ガチで危ない流れやん。2ちゃん
Bobblefighterman
She can't. She's already been suspected of weakness once, she can't afford to not push the perceived advantage again
彼女には無理だね。一度弱腰だと疑われてる以上、見えてる優位をまた押さないわけにはいかない。普通くん
SweetAndSpicyCanton
Tsune is such a praise freak HAHAHA
Tsune、褒められたがりすぎるッwww感情くん
sesaman
If Tsunedere wasn't a thing before, it is now.
ツネデレって概念、今までなかったとしても今ここで爆誕したじゃん!ギャル
Important-Cup-8991
原文
10/10 episode, my theory got litterally destroyed in every sense imaginable ;-; aside from that, the car scraping plan is actually a lot more interesting than anchors. And Aoteru's charisma is totally unmatched. Bro litterally made everyone shut up in just seconds ;-; This war doesn't seem like it'll end after 12-13 episodes, there are so many plots in the background (like Buo or Aoteru not seeming like he actually caught on the winter general strategy). I still want to see Seii's face when none of the reinforcements will appear (Wajima's overthinking will go brrr ;-😉 Also, for Kingdom enjoyers, Aoteru's plan oddly looks like Riboku's against the General Ouki. A massive checkmate that will destroy an entire army.
10/10の神回や ワイの考察完全にぶっ壊されたンゴ;-; 車擦る作戦、錨よりガチで面白いやん。Aoteruのカリスマ無双すぎて一瞬で全員黙らせたの草 12-13話じゃ戦争終わらんやろ、伏線多すぎや。援軍来ん時のSeiiの顔見たいわwww Kingdomのリボクの対オウキ戦みたいな詰みや2ちゃん
Beneficial_Grab8411
About Kingdom, Riboku also had a lot of luck on his side that day. All of his meticulous planning would've failed if that arrow had missed its target.
Kingdomの話だけど、あの日のRibokuもかなり運が味方してたね。あの矢が外れてたら、綿密な計画は全部崩れてた。普通くん
thisisdropd
原文
Do you think war is a game, or something straight out of a manga? Hate to be the bearer of bad news Aoteru, but in the case of your war, it's literally out of a manga. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the acme of skill. This is Aoteru's speciality. In a way he did just that during the audience with the Emperor. The ministers were pretty much hostile towards him to the point of readily wanting his head but he managed to convince them using nothing but his words. Kaku might've been the one to come up with the recipe for the withdrawal feint, but it's still Aoteru who ultimately cooked it before serving it to the customer.
戦争が漫画みたいだって?Aoteruの戦はまさに漫画そのもの。戦わず屈服させるのが本領で、天皇謁見でも言葉だけで大臣を落とした。策考察くん
LetgomyEkko
Oh great, another 5 and 1/2 minute episode 😭
はぁ、また5分半エピかよ😭2ちゃん
Harubaru_Akiyama
原文
I’m Japanese, so I felt a bit uncomfortable with this subtitle. The English subtitle says: “Thanks to his persuasion, the emperor I raised from childhood, the one I even gave my daughter to, has started thinking like a strategist.”(18:08〜) However, the Japanese line is closer to: “He began to develop a sense of responsibility as a monarch.” To me, Taira’s words don’t mean that the emperor started thinking strategically. Rather, they suggest that he began to think and act as an emperor who cares about his people and tries to protect lives, even if that means opposing the Taira clan. Am I misunderstanding the original Japanese?
日本考察くん
runevault
Might be worth checking the dub. Dubs and subs are often different translations (if no other reason than subtitles are not written to be read aloud). I watched the dub but I don't remember the specific word choice of that scene to be sure.
吹替も確認する価値あるかもな。吹替と字幕って別訳多いし。ワイ吹替見たけど、その場面の言い回しは覚えてへんわ。2ちゃん
Jerry_MP
The (I believe?) second to last episode. What the fuck man. The anime keeps me hooked throughout the whole episode and always ends on a mega hype scene. Its not fair. GOD it makes me so sad to think its a potentially years-long wait for another season of this. its not fair man
たぶんラス前?の回。なんだよこれ。毎回ずっと引き込まれて、最後は超激アツで終わるのズルい。次シーズン何年待ちかもと思うと悲しすぎる。普通くん
SkiiMazk
with the manga selling very well in Japan since the anime & Studio Kafka now under twin engine & EOTA production group where they have a "studio first" strategy in which the approach is intended to enable each studio within the group to develop projects that highlight its unique strengths while benefiting from shared resources a 2nd season might be seen late 2027-early 2028.
アニメ後に日本で漫画が好調で、Studio KafkaもTwin Engine/EOTA傘下の戦略を踏まえると、2期は2027年末〜2028年初頭と考察できる。考察くん
Boring-Grand1115
Yepp that's the average wait if they've not yet started S2 production, and touchwood that your prediction becomes true 🙌
うん、S2制作がまだならそのくらい待つのが普通だね。君の予想が当たるといいな🙌普通くん
tripleaamin
原文
Fantastic episode. I think many times in war we can only think of pushing forward. Many times we aren't aware of the actions that can cause war. The big one is Buo and what happens if they join the war? No doubt that is a terrible dilemma. So much so, the emperor, whom Taira has basically groomed, spoke out for the first time. I also really like Misumi and Asama's conversation. There is a difference between being told the answer and coming up with the answer. As you understand, what led you to the conclusion where, when you were told the answer, you were more likely won't understand why you came to the conclusion. No doubt Misumi wouldn't have the same conviction if Kaku told Misumi the answer. Though the fact he is dying is no doubt something Taira has his hands on. I do like to highlight that this episode in particular showcases there is more to Taira than meets the eye. He needs Ryumon to win. Curious what he is plotting. Very excited to see how all of this concludes.
神回やったわ。戦争は前進しか考えられんもんやが、大和国が参戦したらどうなるか、ガチで恐ろしいジレンマやん。平殿器が育てた帝が初めて口開いたのも熱い。三角と阿佐馬の会話ええな、答え教えられるのと自力で辿り着くのは違うわ。鶴が答え言ってたら三角の信念はなかったやろ。平殿器も裏がありそうで龍門に勝ってほしいっぽい。結末楽しみやわ2ちゃん
Golden_fsh
原文
Misumi and Tsune-chan-san!!! Aoteru and that 100 INT skill in full use that even persuaded the emperor to go against Taira despite his fear of him. Taira is going to be an even worse threat now that he's fully focused on Misumi. And finally the emperor shows some spine but we'll see how long that lasts. I always love Tsune-chan-san's unwaverable belief in Misumi and can't wait to see my boys soar to newer heights! And to see Ryumon smile once he realizes his trust in them was warranted 😭 Ahh, week after week I'm always disappointed to see Nippon Sangoku not crack the top 10 on the anime charting lists. But oh well, people can miss out on peak while we are eating good with this phenomenal show!
三角と常ちゃんさん!!!青輝のINT100スキルがフル稼働で、恐れてた皇帝すら平に立ち向かわせたのすごい。平は青輝に本気になって更なる脅威になりそう。皇帝もやっと根性見せたけど長続きするか。常ちゃんの三角への揺るがない信頼が好きだわ。日本三國がアニメランキング10位入らないの毎週残念だけど、名作を見逃すのは向こうの損だね😭普通くん
Jacob-C
But oh well, people can miss out on peak while we are eating good with this phenomenal show! I would agree with you, but the word needs to be spread. I want as many seasons as it takes for this show to be adapted to the end!
まあええわ、名作見逃す奴は見逃せ。ワイらはこの神アニメで飯うまや!でも布教は必要。最後まで何期でも頼むンゴ!2ちゃん
Castor_0il
Well, would you look at that. Somebody finally found his balls. I don't call myself a Kevin Penkin fan on regular basis. But man the tense music on Aoteru's deposition opposing Taira was simply magestic.
お、ついに度胸見せたじゃん。普段Kevin Penkinファンって名乗るほどじゃないけど、青輝が平殿器に反論する場面の緊迫BGMはマジで荘厳だった。普通くん
Chrono-Helix
原文
Finally a follow-up on that exiled general. Aoteru’s very lucky that Taira is willing to go along with his exact words. Taira could have easily gone “you have twice misled everyone in this meeting with your roundabout and unclear way of communicating, that pisses me off; off with your head in 5 seconds”. I don’t know how the war is going to play out. Ryumon is heading west to the exiled general. A bunch of Seii are expected to take over Fukui, then follow Ryumon west. Meanwhile the rest of Seii are heading back north to finish off the stranded Yamato army with Taira Jr, but there won’t be anyone from Yamato chasing them. So Seii won’t be able to pull off their winter general strategy, but there’s no one to rescue the stranded Yamato army either.
ようやく例の追放された将軍の続きが来たな。青輝は平が言葉通りに付き合ってくれて相当ラッキーだった。平なら「回りくどい話し方で二度も皆を惑わせた、5秒で首を刎ねる」と言ってもおかしくなかった。 戦局の展開が読めないんだよな。 ・龍門は西の追放将軍のもとへ ・聖夷の一部は福井を制圧後、龍門を追って西へ ・残りの聖夷は北へ戻り、平ジュニアと孤立した大和軍を叩く算段だが、追手はいない つまり聖夷の冬将軍戦略は不発、でも孤立した大和軍を救う者もいないという構図だと思われる。考察くん
Namaryu
I would have never predicted the plan to use scraps of cars of bygone era to secure an ambush.
旧時代の車スクラップで待ち伏せ決める策とか、予想できるわけないやろw2ちゃん
Niwaka_Samurai
Misumi's words moved even the Dumb Emperor to take action ! only now Taira Denki is starting to see how big of a threat Misumi can be. I can't wait to see how the Borderland General Corps are gonna pull off this strategy against Seii.
三角の言葉であのバカ帝まで動いた!平殿器もようやく三角の脅威に気づいたね。辺境将軍軍が聖夷国相手にどう策を決めるか楽しみ。普通くん
FarCritical
Takes a special kind of person to get a puppet to defy its own strings. It's insane to think about how that decree was the first real move Fuji's made as an emperor in a while. Feels kinda weird to admit Taira's "Ah, mmm~"s have grown on me. Still want him to get his just desserts though.
操り人形に糸へ逆らわせる時点で異質という考察ができる。Fujiの勅令も久々の皇帝としての一手でヤバい。Tairaは報いを受けてほしい。考察くん
Good_Patient6514
原文
As a Chinese person who loved reading the romance of the three kingdoms growing up, I enjoy this anime and the references very much. In the “empty castle” episode, Kaku prayed that the “wind blowing east” would help Ryumon in succeeding, and the wind indeed saved his life. That was a great homage to Kongming’s famous plan in ROT3K to burn enemy ships with a east blowing wind in his favor. In Chinese idioms, we still say 万事俱备,只欠东风 (“everything is ready except for the east wind”) to mean that “I’ve done everything I could, now I’ll leave to rest to the final piece of the puzzle (luck).”
空城回でKakuが祈った東風がRyumon救うの、孔明の火計オマージュで最高。中国人の2ちゃん
szalhi
Did he stutter?
え、どもってた?はっきり言ったじゃん!ギャル
PencilgonGiveIt2Ya
Fucking fire per usual.
相変わらずめちゃくちゃ熱い。普通くん
Shimmering-Sky
He’s got you there. Aha, that makes sense. Fascinating… Ugh, this fucker still won’t agree? Surely this is the last piece of evidence Aoteru needs to win everyone over… Heh. THE EMPEROR DID IT! Incredible. I’m definitely worried about that. Tsune made it in time! Just one more episode left now… I hope the show ends on a good note.
「一本取られたな。あぁ、なるほど納得。面白い…くそ、この野郎まだ認めないのか? これでAoteruが全員を説得できる決定的な証拠のはず…ふっ。皇帝の仕業だったのか! 信じられん。あれはマジで心配。Tsuneが間に合った! 残り1話か…いい終わり方を願うわ。考察くん
Devoidoxatom
We finally see Taira behind the scenes, and as expected, that bastard is smart
ついに裏で動くTairaが見れたけど、予想通りあの野郎頭いいな普通くん
AAA_BATT
every "closed" eyes characters i've seen become even prettier when they open them but this dude becomes even worse somehow Misumi and Ryumon gonna come back from war only for this rotund piece of shit to become emperor himself
今まで閉じ目キャラって開眼すると美形化してたのに、こいつ逆に悪化してて草。三角と龍門が戻ったら丸いクソ野郎が皇帝とか地獄やん2ちゃん
raiden_kazuha
Man, Denki Taira is so untouchable to have his own “strategist”. But I always believe that a day will come when he will pay what he did to Saki, and others.
Denki Taira、自前の「軍師」までいて手出し不能すぎる…。でもSakiたちにしたこと、いつか絶対ツケ払うって信じてるッ!感情くん
ElliotAlderson2024
原文
Misumi vs Taira 4D chess. Misumi knows Taira wants a full-on frontal assault of Seii, and knows his ambush sounds good on paper, would actually work but is against Taira's ego. Surprisingly, the Emperor goes for Misumi's position and orders an edict which IMHO puts him in mortal danger. Also Taira actually says out loud in the chamber that he executed Misumi's wife. He really went there, that's how secure he thinks he is.
三角vs平の頭脳戦やばい。三角は平が聖夷への正面突撃を望んでるって分かってて、自分の伏兵策は理屈上有効でも平のプライドに反するのも承知。意外にも帝が三角側を選んで勅令を出したけど、これ命の危険あるよね。あと平が議場で青輝の妻を処刑したって公言したの…そこまで自信満々かよ。普通くん
InvisibleWatcherExo
"To subdue the enemy without fighting is the acme of skill" A very useless fact is that the series made me read the Art of War. The coincidence is that I stopped reading exactly on Chapter III, whose second advice is this. I'm in love with this series.
「戦わずして敵を屈する」こそ兵法の極致。この作品で孫子を読み始め、第III篇のこの教えで考察くん
ThaOppanHaimar
yea that was cool, looking forward to next episode
うん、あれはよかった。次回楽しみだね普通くん
PeaceAlien
Aoteru too crafty with his words, I'm glad Denki recognizes Aoteru's potential; most people in Denki's position would have killed Aoteru by now.
Aoteru、言葉の使い方うますぎじゃん!Denkiが才能見抜いてくれてよかった〜普通あの立場ならもう殺されててもおかしくないし…ギャル
AutobotTesla
Fantastic episode as usual
いつも通り最高の回だったね普通くん
Pepsiman1031
So there is a third nation. I was wondering when they would be mentioned.
やっぱ第三の国あるんだ。いつ触れられるんだろって思ってたわ〜ギャル
sukeban
Remember the (Second) Battle of Nagashino in episode 2? Those guys were from Buo.
2話の(第二次)長篠の戦い覚えてる?あいつらBuoの連中やで。2ちゃん
AgnosticPeterpan
Now THIS is a meeting episode.
これぞ会議回ッ!最高すぎる!感情くん
Ok-Cod5254
I love the "aura farming" moments here. Glad Misumi got his big moment for the climax. The season is almost over already... unfortunate it is still largely overlooked in the west, but at least hope it's still popular enough in Japan to get more seasons. Hopefully things at least get to a decent stopping point.
ここぞって“オーラ稼ぎ”のシーン好き。三角の見せ場があってよかった。海外で埋もれ気味なのは残念だけど、日本で人気あって続編出てほしい。普通くん
Lost_Potential4119
Great show
ええ作品やん2ちゃん
BosuW
They wanna hit them with the Vinland Saga pirate ambush
あいつら、Vinland Sagaの海賊待ち伏せみたいなのをかます気だな普通くん
areyouthedevil
Haha bro why would you casually remind us of Thors 😢
ちょ、なんでそんなさらっとThors思い出させるの〜泣くんだけど😢ギャル
RelativeMundane9045
This show has definitely been scratching a certain itch since Golden Kamuy season finished.
Golden Kamuyのシーズン終わってからの物足りなさ、この作品が完全に埋めてくれてるッ!感情くん
lavarnder
I agree
それな!ギャル
Nickthenuker
And so the plan has been set into motion.
こうして計画が動き出したね。普通くん
fansi2022
Interestingly, all of their plans are predicated on the enemy taking the initiative to attack, which makes sense. Seiyi wants to rescue the trapped 30,000 troops and denki's son, while Wajima has ignited the flames of war and can't give up.
面白いのは、どの策も敵が先に攻める前提なんやな。聖夷国は3万兵とdenkiの息子救いたいし、輪島はもう引けん。2ちゃん
Any-Calligrapher2866
Look at my GOAT Diplo Maxing.
見てよ、俺の最強が外交力カンストしてる。普通くん
Jacob-C
原文
The tension between Aoteru and Denki was insane this episode. Aoteru's head could have been lopped off any second but he navigated the labyrinth of political intrigue so perfectly that he stunlocked the entire room. It probably helped that Denki seemingly has some sort of interest in Aoteru's development. And the scene where Denki and Maguro analyzed Kaku's plan while playing Shogi was just *chef's kiss*. The writing, dialogue, characters music, cinematography and artstyle are all top tier. The animation is also very good even if it's not the best I have seen. However, the animation more than does it's job. There's no need for overly flashy animation in a show that is so character driven. If there's any first-season show I want to see adapted until completion, it's this one. It's just sooo good!
今話のAoteruとDenkiの緊張感が異常。斬首寸前の政争を切り抜けた考察ができる。将棋でKakuの策を読む場面も完璧。脚本・会話・音楽・画も一級で、最後まで見たい。考察くん
Amazing-Lengthiness1
the episode is so quick, it feel like a 5m episode
今回の話、あっという間すぎて5分くらいに感じたわ普通くん
9th_Planet_Pluto
I really loved this show at the start but the last few episodes has just been dialogue (I think? It's weekly so maybe I'm forgetting) and I'm starting to tune out whenever I watch the episodes. Hope episode 12 is a banger
序盤は本当に好きだったけど、ここ数話は会話劇が続いてる印象。視聴中に集中が切れ気味だし、12話で盛り返す構成だと信じたい。考察くん
Saphyrz
It's not action focused so it's gonna have very little of that.
アクション重視じゃないから、そういうのはかなり少ないと思う…!感情くん
Iron_Kingpin
Misumi is such a badass with just his words alone. And honestly props to the Shogun to issue the edict going against Taira. Just one more episode left, i seriously hope we get a season 2 announcement.
三角、言葉だけで強キャラ感エグいわ。平に逆らう勅令出した将軍もガチで偉い。残り1話、2期発表頼むンゴ。2ちゃん
Simple_Ant_9269
原文
My take on Episode 11 of Nippon Sangoku ** **- feel free to agree or disagree, and let’s crystallise on this topic before the next Episode. Aoteru walks straight into the corrupt capital court in Osaka to secure a dangerous audience with the Emperor. It is a high-stakes gamble that begins with him facing an immediate threat of execution for supposedly deceiving his majesty. He survives through pure semantic precision, winning the floor to dismantle the court's pro-war consensus with a three-pronged argument: 1. Geopolitical Deterrence: Moving the standing army north leaves the capital defenseless, inviting a devastating 3-way war from the ambitious Eastern Kingdom of Buo. 2. Moral Rebuke: He accuses elites of treating war like a consequence-free sporting event while ordinary citizens bear the brunt of starvation and devastation. 3. Sun Tzu's Philosophy: He invokes classical strategy, arguing that subduing an adversary by breaking their intentions (rather than clashing blindly) is the highest excellence. This intellectual cover empowers the Emperor to bypass the Taira clan's influence and issue an official decree for immediate withdrawal. The climax beautifully unravels a mystery from EP 5. Military strategist Yasuaki Kaku had cryptically advised Aoteru to "lie on firewood and contemplate the heavens". This EP revealed that it was a dual-layer strategy: - The Political Meaning: "Persuading the heavens" meant forcing the Emperor to reclaim his agency and issue the decree. - The Technical Meaning: "Firewood" was a literal pun for alternative fuel, hinting at the old-world junked cars hidden in the ghost town. Kaku's ultimate gamble succeeded. By forcing Aoteru to swallow the bitter pill of navigating the corrupt Taira administration without any help, Kaku ensured that the young auditor would develop the political sharpness and strategic foresight needed to deduce these answers on his own. This was Kaku’s true gamble: betting that Aoteru would evolve from a brilliant observer into a genuine tactical genius. Even Lord Taira himself is forced to acknowledge this dramatic evolution during the episode, noting that the young man’s mind has grown noticeably faster and his tongue significantly sharper. And while the cynical warlord still dismisses Aoteru as a fool, it is clear to anyone watching that the low-level records officer has just quietly seized control of the entire war.
11話考察。青輝が大阪の腐敗した朝廷で帝との謁見を勝ち取る展開が熱い。三段論法で主戦論を崩すの見事。5話の鶴の「臥薪嘗胆」が政治的意味と燃料の伏線の二重構造だったと判明。平殿器すら成長を認めてる。下級記録官が戦全体を静かに掌握したと読める。考察くん