#1日本三國
+1094
PeaceAlien
Saki was a walking death flag :'(.
佐紀は死にフラグそのものだったな…悲しい。ドライおじ+377
mekerpan
Yes. As soon as she interfered, I knew she was doomed. What a great character, sorry that we won't have her around for the rest of the series.
I am hoping Fatso set his OWN (irreversible) death flag -- but can Aoteru take revenge without also getting insta-killed?
そうだね。彼女が介入した瞬間にもう終わったなってわかったよ。本当に良いキャラだったのに、シリーズの残りで彼女がいなくなるのは残念だ。
太ったやつには自分自身に(消えない)死亡フラグを立ててほしいけど、青輝が即死せずに復讐できるんだろうか?普通くん+168
rom846
Given that the ambitions set by MC are much higher, I would guess that Fatso is only a stepping stone.
それな!MCの目標がめっちゃ高いし、あのデブキャラってただの踏み台じゃね?笑ギャル+94
SaltySpaniard
Considering this is a military series and the trailer hints off at a power struggle in Yamato, I think that Taira serves as an antagonist that might be killed in a civil war of some sorts (they can also pull us off an Askeladd, but well).
確かに。彼女が介入した瞬間、もう運命は決まっていたんだよな。本当に魅力的なキャラだっただけに、これから一緒にいられないのが残念だ。
軍事シリーズであることと、予告編でヤマトの権力闘争が示唆されていることを踏まえると、平はある種の内戦で倒される敵役として機能する可能性が高いと考察できる。もしかしたらアスクラッド的な展開もあるかもしれないが、まあね。考察くん+52
BosuW
> Taira serves as an antagonist that might be killed in a civil war of some sorts
History does repeat itself
確かに!歴史は繰り返すってまさにこれだよな…タイラが内戦で死ぬとかしんどすぎるッ!感情くん+19
Loeffellux
she was doomed the moment the MC said that he was content living his simple life because he had her. That by itself established the narrative need to remove her from his life.
確かに。主人公が「彼女がいるから今の質素な暮らしで満足してる」って言った瞬間、彼女の運命は決まってたんだよね。それだけで、物語的に彼女を主人公の人生から排除する必要が生まれたってわけだ。普通くん+15
BosuW
Goddamn did she put her money where her mouth is though
Definitely kind of person that would inspire you to join a revolution
まじでさきちゃん、言ったことは絶対に行動で示すタイプだったじゃん!笑
そういう人がいるから革命に参加したくなるってやつだね〜ギャル+95
Zeph-Shoir
We only knew her for like 10 minutes, but those were enough for her to be one of the best girl characters in anime that I have ever seen. I hope that a different character has a similar passion and personality down the line in this show.
確かに。我々が出会ったのは僅か10分の時空だったが、その短さこそ彼女をアニメ史に刻む至高のヒロインたらしめたのだ。この世の理を変えるような情熱と魂の炎を継ぐ者よ、この先の物語で現れることを切に願う。中二病+37
beastboy07
I felt so sad when that scene came by , that was brutal 🥹
確かに、あの場面が来た時は某も胸が痛み申した。あまりに非情でござるな🥹武士+34
OwnCover1912
原文
i felt REALLY sad. Not enough to cry but like, it was just so jawdropping and just straight up ANNOYING and INFURIATING to see that tax collector talk about how they cut her hands, then feet, and then torso and just basically mock her. But i am glad this is not some expected revenge story, though as i was watching the scene where he calculates how he's going to kill the people responsible i was hoping he does that but im VERY glad it didnt turn out like that, cuz that would be a generic revenge story and im so GLAD that this author sees the bigger picture and makes the main character see the greater picture. And its also kind of good to see how his past interactions with Saki influence him greatly and motivate him to move towards SUCH a VAST goal like bros boutta change the world.
i just love the story and ESPECIALLY the animations. Just visually STUNNING.
確かにあのシーンはキツかったな。特に税吏が手足を切断した経緯を嘲笑混じりに語る描写は、見てて腹立たしかった。でも、よくある復讐劇にならなかったのは良かった。主人公が過去のSakiとの関わりから世界を変えるような大きな目標に向かう展開は、作者の視野の広さを感じさせる。アニメーションも本当に美しかった。ドライおじ+5
HonestSophist
Halfway through the episode, I had to sit down and say "Alright, I refuse to spend the next 12 minutes pretending like Saki isn't gonna get stuffed into the fridge. Lets get some spoilers, and then resume."
確かに、あれは完全に死亡フラグだったね。途中で「もう無理、Sakiがやられるのは確定だろ」って思って、ネタバレ見てから続き観たわ。普通くん+35
Dramajunker
原文
I get why they had to kill her off but honestly she's really dumb. She watched a guy get pulled apart by horses because he spilled some potatoes and she thought to herself "yeah, let's openly antagonize these people". They wanted to show that she's brave, but she pretty much ran head first into a wall.
The fatso and his cronies are the kind of evil that burns down a village because someone dared to interfere. It's unrealistic to me that they only killed her and didn't touch the husband.
せやな、サキはもう最初から死亡フラグ立ってたよな…(´;ω;`)
確かに彼女はアホやったわ。ジャガイモこぼしただけで馬で引き裂かれるのを目の当たりにしといて「よし、こいつらに喧嘩売ろう」ってなるのは草。勇敢に見せたかったんだろうけど、壁に突っ込んだだけやん。
あのデブと仲間たちは、邪魔しただけで村焼き払うタイプの悪やしな。なんで旦那は無傷でサキだけ殺されたのか、ワイには非現実的に見えたわ。2ちゃん+17
ComprehensiveMix8766
I dont agree. I believe the Fatso/bureaucracy wanted Aoteru to see his wife's beheaded head possible because in their view it would be more excruciating and painful than death. Thats why the fatso is surprised when he Aoteru doesnt show any rage thereby deceiving him.
我が見解は異なる。あの肥満官僚どもは、青輝に妻の首を見せることで死よりも深き苦痛を与えようとしたのだ。故に、青輝が怒りを見せぬ姿に奴は驚愕していた。全ては奴の目を欺くための、我が策だったのだ。中二病+8
Namaryu
I can't shake off the feeling of seeing Orb once again.
やばっ!Orb(アニメ「オーブ〜On the Movements of the Earth〜」)また見れちゃったんだけど!まじでその気持ちわかる〜!ギャル+297
bushwarblerssong
Same editor and the two series are often recommended together.
編集者同じだし、よく一緒にオススメされてるんだよなwwwwおじ+165
Namaryu
When Aoteru started responding with philosophy quotationns I had flashbacks to Rafał lol
確かに、同じ編集者だしよく一緒に推奨されてるよね。青輝が哲学の引用で返してきたとき、ラファウを思い出したわ笑普通くん+110
scarpedieme
That’s where my mind went instantly, too. His calm, tactical demeanor during the confrontation leading to his completely emotional meltdown when they were gone was just masterfully done.
やばっ!それマジで思ったんだけど笑
青輝が哲学の引用し始めた瞬間、頭の中ラファウのこと思い出したわ〜
対峙してる時のクールで戦術的な感じから、いなくなった後の感情爆発のギャップがまじ神がかってたんだよね!ギャル+49
seninn
Okay, I'm in.
確かに!同じ編集者だし、よく一緒にオススメされてるもんな。もう入るしかないでしょッ!感情くん+36
Tarta35
I cant believe i didn't think of Orb. So that's why this anime is looking really really good.
確かに、オーブのことを考えてなかったわ。だからこのアニメめっちゃ良さそうに見えるんだな。普通くん+7
TheBlasphemerAmon
Production wise, that was unbelievably good...so good that I’m skeptical they can keep it up for the whole season.
The premise is interesting. We’ll see where it goes from here, since this was a prologue. Needless to say, I’m hooked.
制作面に関して言えば、信じられないほどクオリティが高かったな…正直、この水準をシーズン通して維持できるのか疑わしいくらいだ。
前提設定は面白い。今回はプロローグ的な位置づけだったから、ここからどう展開していくか注目だ。言うまでもなく、もう完全に引き込まれてる。考察くん+224
abbe44
hope people actually watch this
it looks awesome
これ見てほしいな
めっちゃ良さそうじゃん普通くん+185
a1oner_bvcksn6
原文
Sadly, this feels like it would slip under everyone's radar, but that's all right. It can't be called a *hidden gem* otherwise.
Avant garde is simply not for everyone. If you're a fan of the Tatami Galaxy, then you're probably gonna love the animation style, even if thematically the two cannot be any more different.
That said, my heart breaks for Aoteru. Saki was far too innocent, much too naive, and way too good for the world (they live in). Burning off her "remains" (wedding dress included) couldn't be more symbolic to kick off this journey. Sometimes, the world simply needs to burn for any reform/change to occur, as tragic as that may be
せやな、これ話題にならんの悲しいけど仕方ないンゴね
隠れた名作っつうのはそういうもんやし
前衛的なのは万人向けやないしな
四畳半神話大系好きなら作風はハマると思うわ
テーマは全然ちゃうけどな
でもアオテル見ててワイも胸が痛んだわ
サキは純粋すぎてこの世界にはもったいない子やった
ウェディングドレス含めて「遺品」燃やす演出
旅立ちの象徴としてガチでエグいわ
悲しいけど世界変えるには時には燃やすしかないんやな…2ちゃん+76
tripleaamin
>Sadly, this feels like it would slip under everyone's radar, but that's all right. It can't be called a *hidden gem* otherwise.
Its being on Prime Video probably will aid it in that.
それな!Prime Videoで配信されるのはデカい。隠れた名作になるにはちょっと注目されないのも必要だしね…でもやっぱりもっと話題になってほしい気持ちもある。複雑〜!感情くん+41
mekerpan
Sigh!
確かに、埋もれちゃいそうで悲しいけど、それもまたいいんだよね。隠れた名作って呼べるしさ。普通くん+11
cheese_caiki2
Been eyeing this for a while, and I cant help but feel like this ones gonna be the type that goes unnoticed by many despite its charm
それな!ずっと気になってたんだけど、この作品マジで面白そうじゃん?なのに知られてないのやばくない!?もっとみんな見てほしい〜!ギャル+8
ObvsThrowaway5120
原文
First episode of Fallout: Neo Japan wasn’t half bad lol. I like the premise and the art style is different.
Saki was a good woman. Fiery. It’s a shame she had to die but it’s what lit a flame under Aoteru’s ass. Dude was smart but he lacked courage. The state killed his wife and now they’ve given him a goal. In 5 minutes he got the man who killed his wife also executed. Who knows what he could accomplish with a month. A year. It’s gonna be interesting seeing how he reunifies Japan.
『Fallout: Neo Japan』(※ゲーム「Fallout」シリーズ風の世界観を日本に置き換えたという意のニックネーム)1話、案外面白かったな。設定は好みだし、画風も斬新で良い。
サキは芯の強い良い女だったよな。彼女が死んだのは残念だが、それがアオテルの背中を押したのは間違いない。あの男、頭は切れるが勇気が足りなかった。国家が妻を殺したことで、ようやく彼に目的ができたわけだ。5分で妻の仇を処刑台に送った男が、1ヶ月、1年で何を成し遂げるのか。日本統一への道筋、どう描かれるか楽しみだ。考察くん+181
BosuW
> Dude was smart but he lacked courage. The state killed his wife and now they’ve given him a goal.
"That was a mistake."
"Why? Because you have no one left to die for you?"
"No, because I have nothing left to fear."
確かに。あのキャラは賢いけど勇気が足りなかったんだよね。国に妻を殺されて、今度は目標を与えられた感じだな。
「それは間違いだった」
「なぜだ?もうお前のために死ぬ者はいないからか?」
「違う、もう失うものを恐れる必要がなくなったからだ」普通くん+74
Regular-Poet-3657
That a star war rebel reference?
草、それスターウォーズの反乱軍ネタやんwww
ワイも最初「あ、これ帝国軍の話か?」って思ったわ
せやけど、このアニメのキャラに当てはめると妙にしっくりくるンゴねぇ2ちゃん+17
BosuW
Yes
そうだね、スター・ウォーズの反乱軍の話だと思うよ。普通くん+7
ElliotAlderson2024
Doesn't it reek of fridging though?
確かにフリージング(Fridging:女性キャラを殺して男性キャラの動機づけに使う手法)臭ぷんぷんするわwwwwおじ+39
Usual-Bandicoot1602
that's 100% what it was. pretty disappointing from an otherwise great first episode. would have been much more interesting if they set out together, and we could watch both characters grow together. more complicated to write though i suppose
それ、まさにその通りだと思う。それ以外は素晴らしかった初回なのに、そこは残念だよな。もし二人が一緒に出発して、互いに成長していく過程を見せてくれたら、もっと面白かったはず。ただ、脚本的には複雑になるんだろうなって考察もできる。考察くん+56
Zeph-Shoir
We honestly need more shows that do make their main character couple work together in competent and interesting ways, closest thing I can think of is Summer Time Rendering.
確かにそれはそう。夏休みのレンダリングくらいしか思いつかないな。もっと主人公カップルが有能で面白い形で協力するアニメ増えてほしいわ。普通くん+35
HarshTheDev
原文
For some reason I had deluded myself into believing that Saki was the femme looking char in the poster. So I was expecting them to form a tag team with her being the brawns and the MC being the brain. I did wonder how long she could get away with fighting considering the story looked grounded and the bed scene felt a bit weird...
...welp. I got my answer. But I would say that this led the last moment of the episode hitting me like a truck.
確かに。僕も最初は佐妃がポスターの女性キャラだと思い込んでたんだよな。だから「佐妃が力担当で主人公が頭脳担当のタッグチーム」が形成されるのかと期待してた。ただ、この作品がリアル寄りの世界観である以上、彼女の戦闘がいつまで通用するのか疑問だったし、ベッドシーンも違和感があったんだよな。
…で、答えが出たわけだが。むしろこの展開があったからこそ、最終盤の衝撃がより深まったという考察ができる。制作陣は最初からこの流れを計算していたんだろうな。考察くん+19
saga999
The problem with fridging isn't that it happens. It's that it's the only thing that happens with women across multiple works, e.g. a writer writes multiple stories and it happens in every single one of them.
せやな。フリージングの問題は「起きること」そのものじゃなくて、「それしか起きない」ってとこやろ。同じ作者が何作品も書いて毎回それやっとるから叩かれるんやで。2ちゃん+28
EitherExamination343
原文
The death of a loved one has definitely spurred some to rebel against the state, and the state notoriously enacts violence with less impunity against people of lower status, but especially women. We don't even need to look that far back in history to see this play out if you're an American.
I've always understood Gail specifically (initially, anyway) wrote about female superheroes effectively being killed off (or depowered) to make male counterparts either look better or give them cheap heat as a story device.
I think there are some valid reasons (both as a story device and historically) why things played out the way they did in Sengoku, and things might have been a little more interesting if Saki had been the one left standing, but I didn't really see this as fridging in that sense. Not knocking anyone who does but just offering a different opinion.
PS: I'm somehow old enough to remember the Fridging blog and discussion about this, so here's a time capsule if you want to take a look:
愛する者の死が反乱の引き金になるのは確かに歴史的事実で、特に身分の低い女性ほど国家の暴力に晒されやすい。アメリカ史を見ても近い例は枚挙に暇がない。
ゲイルの意図は当初、女性スーパーヒーローを殺害・弱体化させて男性キャラを引き立てる、いわゆる"安易な物語装置"として機能させた点にあると理解している。
戦国時代の描写には、物語装置としても史実としても妥当な理由があると思う。もし咲が生き残っていたらより興味深い展開になったかもしれないが、少なくとも私はこれを「フリージング」とは捉えていない。異論を否定するつもりはないが、単に別の視点を提示したい。
P.S. 懐かしい「フリージングブログ」を覚えている世代なので、タイムカプセルとしてリンクを貼っておく。考察くん+18
Ok_Development2085
A Saki é uma força da natureza, difícil não gostar da personagem tão realista.
A semente da revolução é o sangue dos mártires.
A construção de mundo é totalmente possível.(Totalitarismo).
O homem só vai a algum lugar se deixar algo pra trás.
同意。サキはほんと存在感すごいよね、ああいうリアルなキャラは嫌いになれないな。
世界観の構築もめっちゃ現実味あるし(全体主義)、「何かを残さなきゃ前に進めない」ってセリフも深い。普通くん+10
rockinalex07021
I feel like he never lacked courage, he just lacked a legitimate reason to be doing all that
せやな、勇気は最初から持ってたんやろな。ただ、あそこまでやる正当な理由がなかったって感じやわ。2ちゃん+6
NanDemoKnaives
原文
It was interesting to see how he resets his emotions, but after how composed he was in front of those responsible for Saki's death, seeing him bawling out when he was alone with Saki's head was so freaking sad. It's sad that he'll finally fulfill Saki's wish, but the trigger was her death.
Saki was badass though, I did not expect her to be able to move the way she did. She and Aoteru would have made the greatest power couple with brains and brawn.
I'm liking the setting of this and the art style is quite unique, this seems like it could be really good. I'm looking forward to seeing how this agricultural officer rises the rank in the military.
感情のリセット方法が興味深いな。佐紀の死に関与した連中の前ではあれだけ冷静だったのに、一人で彼女の首を抱えて泣き崩れるシーンは本当に切なかった。佐紀の願いを叶えることになるが、そのきっかけが彼女の死だというのが悲しすぎる。
佐紀は本当に強かった。あの動きができるとは思わなかった。彼女と青輝が組めば、知力と武力を兼ね備えた最強のカップルになれただろうに。
この設定と独特な作画スタイルは非常に好印象。農業士官が軍内でどう昇進していくのか、今から楽しみだ。考察くん+158
beastboy07
I literally shed tear when that scene came by specially when Mc started crying when he was aslone with her head, I agree they would have been fucking badass couple but well , can't wait how story unfolds
ワイあのシーンでマジで泣いてもうたわ
特にMCが彼女の頭抱えて一人で泣き出したとこな
確かにあの2人がくっついてたら最強カップルやったやろうな…
でも今後の展開どうなるか楽しみやンゴwww2ちゃん+37
PeaceAlien
Don't sleep on Studio Kafka, they share staff with WIT and MAPPA.
The black and white was an interesting choice, then in the finale scene, they flexed all the colours they could use. Potential is high with this one. It might already be my anime of the season.
Took a look at the sub/dub, dub VA is a little rough
スタジオカフカは侮れないな。WITやMAPPAとスタッフを共有してるから、クオリティの高さは納得だ。
白黒の演出は意図的だったと考察できる。最終話であえて全色を使い切ることで、その対比が際立つ構成になっている。ポテンシャルはかなり高い。今期のマイベスト候補になり得る。
吹替版も確認したが、声優の演技が少し粗い。本編の演出の繊細さを考えると、もう少し調整が必要だったかもしれない。考察くん+136
akjalen
was wondering why they had the same motorcycle intro shots as mappa
「マジでそれ!!スタジオ・カフカ、知らん人多いけどガチ勢は押さえてるスタジオだよな。WITとMAPPAのスタッフ被りってだけで信頼できるし。モノクロ演出めっちゃエモかったし、あのバイクのイントロカットMAPPAと一緒なの気づいてテンション上がったわ!!」感情くん+46
Mts555
That's due to Nippon Sangoku being produced by Twin Engine
Twin Engineが制作してるからだね。同じスタジオだから、同じようなカット使い回すのはよくあることだよ。普通くん+37
Nachtwandler_FS
Studio Kafka already did a pretty good job with MahoYome S2, so I have no doubrt they can pull a decent art and animation.
せやな、スタジオ・カフカはMahoYome S2で結構良い仕事しとるし、作画とアニメーションは安心して見れるンゴwww2ちゃん+24
Se7en_Sinner
I thought this was a Science SARU production at first.
確かに!最初俺もScience SARU作品かと思ったわ。でもKafkaスタジオってWITやMAPPAとスタッフ被りしてるのか…納得のクオリティすぎるッ!感情くん+15
RyouBestGirl
The most underrated anime of the season is here
今期で一番過小評価されてるアニメが来たね普通くん+121
chirb8
I was shocked to see how little upvotes and comments this thread has. This is by far the best episode I've seen of the new season
確かに!このスレッドの伸びなさにビビったわ。今期イチの神回だと思うんだけど!マジでもっと評価されるべきッ!感情くん+55
FirstSea
Underrated?
The show is being pushed by amazon!
控えめ?
この作品、Amazonがめっちゃ推してるじゃん普通くん+9
IXajll
Incredible episode. Hopefully this show won‘t be damned to be the dark horse of the season and instead get some well deserved attention.
やばくない!?今回のエピソードまじ神だったんだけど!!
このアニメ、今期のダークホースで終わらせるのはもったいなすぎるし、もっと注目されてほしいマジで!ギャル+88
Salty145
It will.
それな。今期のダークホースとか言われてるけど、ワイはガチで化けると思うンゴwww もっと評価されるべきやろ2ちゃん+17
NinjaOtter
We will fight. It will be noticed. I stan this and Dorohedoro.
戦うしかないな。これは目立つよ。この作品とドロヘドロを応援してる。普通くん+24
SEBASTlANVETTEL
Holy shit what a first episode, I actually have no words of how good this was.
This will truly be a gem during this spring season.
Saki was truly best girl but unfortunately she had the dead wife flags throughout the episode and it turned out to be true….I knew the moment Aoteru woke up without her, something terrible happened to her.
うわっ、初回から凄まじいクオリティだな。言葉にならないほど良かった。
この春アニメの中でも間違いなく逸材になるだろう。
サキは確かに最高のヒロインだったが、残念ながら1話を通して死亡フラグが立っていたのが現実になってしまった……遼が彼女なしで目覚めた瞬間、彼女に何かあったと察したよ。考察くん+62
thisisdropd
原文
A marriage scene in the opening minutes? Romcoms could never! Aoteru & Saki's moments are pure diabetes. Love that bed talk where they talked about their future plans. How Aoteru had only wanted to build a stable live with her.
Having said that, this was a post-apocalyptic world and all seemed to be going so well. There must be a catch. Yeah, it came the very next morning where he woke up only to find her beheaded by the corrupt Lord of Home Affairs. The sugar rush had come crashing down HARD.
Respect to Aoteru. He had ultimately overcame his rage and got the tax collector killed using nothing but words. It might not have brought Saki back to life but it's a consolation revenge. As corrupt as Taira might be, even he respected Aoteru for this.
Looked like her death had inspired him to follow through with her wishes – to reunite the fractured Japan.
___
Interesting fusion of old and new. Pretty much everything gave the impression of a Taisho era but at the end we saw the Akashi-Kaikyo bridge.
PS: The woman on the magazine cover had a strong resemblance to Saki's VA. A fun Easter egg on Easter Day.
冒頭数分で結婚シーン?ラブコメじゃ絶対無理だろ!青輝とサキのやり取りがマジで糖分過多。将来の計画を語り合うベッドトーク、彼がただ彼女と安定した生活を築きたかったっていうのが良かった。
でもこれ終末世界だし、順調すぎるんだよな。絶対何かあると思った。案の定、翌朝に内務大臣の汚職貴族にサキが首をはねられてて、一気に現実に叩き落とされた。
青輝には敬意を表するよ。怒りを乗り越えて、言葉だけで税務官を追い詰めたんだから。サキは戻らないけど、せめてもの復讐にはなった。タイラも腐ってるけど、この一件で青輝を認めてたしな。
彼女の死が、彼に「分裂した日本を統一する」という彼女の願いを継がせる原動力になったみたいだ。
---
新旧の融合が面白いな。大体は大正時代っぽい雰囲気なのに、最後に明石海峡大橋が出てきた。
追記:雑誌の表紙の女性、サキの声優にめっちゃ似てた。イースターにぴったりのイースターエッグだな。普通くん+61
cppn02
That's actually a real Japanese magazine although I couldn't find that exact cover so they might have created that for the anime.
せやな、その雑誌は実際にあるんやけど、その表紙はアニメ用に作った可能性あるンゴね。ワイも探してみたけど見つからんかったわ。2ちゃん+15
melvinlee88
原文
Favourite first episode of anime I've watched all year. Don't fucking miss it. The episode flew by
The moment that animation of Saki ripping that wedding dress info sheet was the moment I knew I was watching greatness. The unique animation felt so satisfying, it was like watching Tatami Galaxy again. The movement of the camera and just how delightful each animation was.
I knew Saki was gonna die but fuck me man, she was so cool and beautiful.
There's something about the art, the animation, the conversations and the flow of this first episode that really gripped me. I'm a sucker for alternative history and this really was awesome.
What a debut.
今年観たアニメの中で一番好きな初回だった。絶対に見逃すな。あっという間に終わったよ。
サキがウェディングドレスの情報用紙を破り捨てるあのアニメーション、あの瞬間にこれは傑作だと確信した。独特な動きがすごく気持ちよくて、まるで『四畳半神話大系』をまた観てるみたいだった。カメラの動きも、一つ一つのアニメーションの楽しさも最高だった。
サキが死ぬってわかってたけど、もう本当にかっこよくて美しすぎたんだよ。
この第1話の絵柄、アニメーション、会話、流れ、全部に引き込まれた。俺はif歴史モノに弱いんだけど、これ本当に最高だった。
素晴らしいデビューだ。普通くん+60
iamyou20
Omg same here the creativeness and using the fourth wall reminded me of tatami galaxy too!!
同意、全く同じ気持ちでござる!第四の壁を破る演出の斬新さ、まさに『四畳半神話大系』を彷彿とさせるものであったな。作画の創造性も見事、実に素晴らしい一話でござった。武士+5
invadercity
The scene where she gets annoyed at the overexplanation of why she shouldn't wear a wedding dress
あのシーン、ウェディングドレス着ちゃダメって理由をめっちゃ説明されすぎてイライラしてるの、めっちゃわかるんだけど!笑ギャル+6
Jerry_MP
原文
This might be THE sleeper hit of the season. The story setup is pretty damn interesting. The character(s) (although we only really see 2 so far) are loveable. Aoteru is a nerd but not the cliche, annoying kind. He's genuinely so passionate about knowledge. Hyped as fuck to see what the next episode will bring.
And the animation?? It just oozes with style. The passion that went into this project must've been insane.
今期の隠れた名作かもしれない。ストーリーの設定がめっちゃ面白い。まだ2人しか出てきてないけどキャラが愛おしい。青輝はオタクだけど、嫌な感じのステレオタイプじゃなくて、純粋に知識に情熱を持ってるんだよな。次回がマジで楽しみ。
あと作画?スタイルが溢れ出てる。この作品に注がれた情熱、半端なかったんだろうな。普通くん+42
BatFun7276
原文
I'm so over fridging, it's such an outdated and offensive trope. Saki was one of the best thing of this episode and I'm disappointed that we won't see more of her. I sure hope the story will introduce new female characters... That being said I went completely blind and loved almost every minute of this episode.
The slow build up, the look of the show which simply stunning, the music almost everything was so great.
「フリージングにもううんざりやわ、古くて不快なテンプレすぎるわ。咲は今回のエピで一番良かったのに、もう見られないのはガッカリやわ。今後の新キャラに期待したい…とはいえ、ワイは予備知識ゼロで見たけど、このエピはほぼ全部楽しめたわ。
- じっくりした展開
- 圧倒的に美しい映像
- 音楽
ほぼ全部最高やったわwww」2ちゃん+38
coffeecakesupernova
I wasn't going to comment, but the fridging did piss me off. Considering that this is a manly kind of story I guess I shouldn't be surprised because fridging comes from that older manly kind of era, but I was still disgusted.
確かに、フリージングにはムカついたわ。男らしさ重視のストーリーだから、昔ながらの男らしい時代の産物であるフリージングが出てきても驚くべきじゃないんだろうけど、それでも嫌悪感を覚えたよ。普通くん+18
BatFun7276
原文
I was surprised because I was watching a fictional anime, not a documentary. Animes are known for taking liberties and being creative, they’ll include overpowered main characters, flying cows, superpowers, and all sorts of unrealistic elements regardless of the time period. But somehow, the one thing they insist on keeping realistic is the absence of important female characters, claiming they want to stay faithful.
Like… we can suspend our disbelief for so many things, so having important female characters shouldn’t be an issue if they were actually included in the story.
確かに、フィクションのアニメを見てるのに「リアリティ」を盾に女性キャラを排除するのは矛盾してるよな。飛ぶ牛や超能力は許容するのに、重要な女性キャラの不在だけは「時代考証」を理由にするのは、制作側の意図的な選択としか思えない。この作品に限らず、多くのアニメで見られる傾向だが、『三國』のような歴史モノこそ、創作の自由度を活かして女性キャラに活躍の場を与えるべきだという考察ができる。考察くん+5
Pacify_
yeah I didn't like anything about that part of the narrative, it felt so on the nose and over done.
Bit of a shame, but I'm still on board to see where it goes
それな。あの展開は本当に嫌だった…わざとらしすぎてやりすぎ感がすごい。
ちょっと残念だけど、まだこれからどうなるか見守るつもり。感情くん+10
BatFun7276
原文
*"Women in refrigerators" is a term coined by Gail Simone in 1999 to describe a literary trope which involves female characters facing disproportionate harm, such as death, maiming, or assault, to serve as plot devices to motivate male characters, an event colloquially known as "fridging"*.
Based on the description, and frankly the way it has been used 99,9% of the time maybe just use a male character to kill. The best friend, father, uncle whatever. Because you know that there will other male characters down the road. But female characters aren't as present in fiction let alone in mangas, seinen and shonen. So they should stop using the little female characters they do have like this, maybe.
「冷蔵庫の中の女」(=フリージング/Fridging)ってのは1999年にゲイル・シモンが作った言葉で、女性キャラを殺したり傷つけたりして男性キャラの動機にする安易な展開のことだよね。
これ見るとさ、99.9%のケースで言えば、殺すなら男キャラにすればいいと思うんだ。親友でも父親でも叔父でもさ。だって男キャラなら後からいくらでも出せるじゃん。でも女性キャラってそもそも作品に出てくる数が少ないし、ましてや漫画や青年誌・少年誌だと尚更。だからせめて限られた女性キャラをこんな風に消費するのはやめるべきだよ、多分。普通くん+8
bushwarblerssong
原文
Dare I say, (potential to be) Anime of the Year?
Definitely some of the most creative and dynamic animation of the season. The trailers and other promo were stunning and yet, still didn’t do justice.
The little bit of color from cigarette and flame as Aoteru said goodbye to Saki, to the falling cherry blossom petals onto the blue sea.
There’s a strong ukiyo-e/wood-block print and ink painting/suibokuga influence. They have a professional calligrapher involved as well.
The voice acting was perfect. The characters spoke in regional dialect with a mix of archaic and modern expressions which isn’t at all easy to pull off, but the voice actors sounded as if they were using their natural speech.
And what a wonderful OP!
Amazing all-around. It might not get much attention here, but it is one of the more anticipated anime in Japan. (Rest of comment in the source material corner.)
あえて言わせてもらうと、今年のアニメ・オブ・ザ・イヤーの可能性を秘めているんじゃないか?
今期で間違いなく最も独創的でダイナミックなアニメーションのひとつだ。トレーラーやプロモ映像も圧巻だったけど、それでも本編の魅力を完全には伝えきれていなかった。
青い海に舞い落ちる桜の花びら、そして青輝(アオテル)がサキに別れを告げる場面での煙草と炎のわずかな色彩——この演出、まさに計算され尽くしている。
浮世絵や木版画、水墨画の影響が色濃く出ているのがわかる。専門の書道家も参加しているようだし、制作陣のこだわりが半端ない。
声優陣も完璧だった。方言と古語・現代語が混ざった台詞回しは決して簡単なものじゃないのに、まるで自然な言葉のように聞こえる。
そしてOP、素晴らしすぎるだろ。
全体的に圧巻のクオリティ。Redditではあまり注目されていないかもしれないが、日本ではかなり期待されている作品のひとつだ。考察くん+33
tiger1296
What a moron, your wife interrupted the most corrupt officials tax extortion after he executed some guy for dropping potatoes and you don't think to hide her till the fuckers leave?
Well read my arse
まじでありえなくね!?奥さんが来たタイミングやばすぎだし、腐った役人がポテト落としただけで人殺した直後に税金搾取してるのに、あいつらが去るまで隠そうとしないとか頭おかしくない?笑
本読んでる場合じゃねーだろ!ギャル+27
tripleaamin
It would have been better if they argued about running away and she decided that she was not going to run. I think that would have really aided this debut in that final scene.
確かに。逃げるかどうかで言い争って、彼女が「逃げない」って決断する流れの方が良かったかもな。最終シーンでデビューがもっと映えたと思うんだよね。普通くん+22
psyclical
That struck me as well, these guys from the government showed themselves to be casual murderers, so to think that they'd let some commoners off who'd publicly humiliated them was stupid in the extreme.
その場面、俺も気になったんだよな。政府の連中が平然と殺人を犯す奴らだって露呈した以上、公の場で侮辱した庶民を許すなんてありえないと考察できる。むしろ、即座に報復があって然るべきだ。この描写から、権力者の論理と民衆の甘い期待の乖離が明確に描かれていると思われる。考察くん+11
Se7en_Sinner
Bro almost choose Wrath after finding out his wife got Se7en'd.
まじでやばくね!?自分の奥さんがセブン(映画『セブン』(1995)のラストシーンが由来)されたって知って、怒り選びかけたとか衝撃的すぎるんだけど!ギャル+27
Ocixo
原文
Damn! This show has a very bold presentation. It feels a bit reminiscent to Tatami Galaxy in this respect.
It's a shame that we've already had to see our goodbyes to Saki. I really liked her fiery spirit. Although I knew that she'd get into major trouble after her stunt, a part of me held onto the hope that they'd perhaps be more forgiving towards women. But no...
Now that Aoteru got no reason to hold back anymore, he's going to set this world ablaze.
うわっ、この作品めっちゃ思い切った演出してるな。その点では四畳半神話大系をちょっと思い出す感じ。
もうサキとお別れか…あの熱い魂、めっちゃ好きだったんだけどな。あの行動で問題起こすのは分かってたけど、女性には多少寛大なのかなって淡い期待もあったんだよね。でもダメだったか…
青輝がもう遠慮する理由なくなったし、これから世界を燃やし尽くすつもりだな。普通くん+26
scarpedieme
That was mind-blowing. Haven’t seen a stylistic, emotional, character-driven premiere of that caliber since Vinland Saga or maybe Orb. Consider me strapped in for the ride!
マジでやべぇわ。ヴィンランド・サガとかオーブ以来の衝撃やったわ。スタイルも感情もキャラも全部ぶち抜きやん。ワイはもう完全に乗ったンゴwww2ちゃん+23
Chrono-Helix
原文
I wasn’t expecting a show with such a serious-sounding premise and semi-realistic artstyle to be so comedic. The way characters are drawn reminds me of how side characters are sometimes depicted in Zetsubou Sensei.
Japan has fallen in this story, but realistically you’d expect other countries to swoop in and try to take over. That doesn’t seem to have happened, so I’m curious how that would be explained.
But wow what a first episode. It’s about as impactful as Oshi no Ko’s. That scene in the snow is so sad but beautiful.
確かに、あれだけシリアスな設定と半リアルな作画なのに、ここまでコメディ寄りだとは思わなかったな。キャラの描き方、絶望先生の脇キャラみたいな雰囲気あるよね。
- 日本が崩壊した割に他国が乗り込んでこないのは確かに気になる。その辺の説明がどうなるか楽しみだ
- でも初回のインパクトは推しの子並みだったな。あの雪のシーン、切ないけど美しすぎる…普通くん+22
steeltrain43
Why take over Japan? It's fairly resource poor. In addition to the effort required for amphibious assault, holding a landmass of that size under occupation will do nothing but drain resources.
確かに!なんで日本なんだよって思うよね。資源も少ないし、上陸作戦の労力考えたら、占領維持で資源がガンガン減っていくだけじゃん。無理すぎるわ。感情くん+15
ArtMustBeFree
Japan was overwhelmed by immigrants carrying multiple plagues. Read between the lines, it's much much worse in some places. Also our modern life depends on foreign trade and resources. All nations cut off from one another, tackling multiple wars and pandemics? Whatever nation is currently top dog will still be a sorry shadow of its former self.
確かに。日本は複数の疫病を持ち込む移民で溢れてたしな。行間読めばもっとヤバい地域もある。現代生活は外国との貿易や資源に依存してるし、各国が断絶して複数の戦争やパンデミックに対処するってなると、どんなトップ国家でも元の姿の影も形もない惨めな状態になると思うよ。普通くん+8
GrapesOnVines
In the intro they mention a nuclear war with Japan being unaffected, and how there was a flood of refuges. I'm assuming that war put most nations capable of easily taking over Japan out of commission
え、冒頭で核戦争の話してたじゃん!日本だけ無傷で、難民が押し寄せたってやつ。たぶんその戦争で、日本を簡単に乗っ取れる国がほとんど機能しなくなったってことだよね。やばくね?ギャル+21
amnsisc
原文
The art in this show was really great and the plot wasn't too bad, but I'm very surprised that Amazon was the co producer on this blatantly nationalist anime lol
Edit:
My gripes:
I'm all for another Neo-Sino-Japonese adaptation of 'Romance of the Three Kingdoms' (and there are \*many\*), but some things about the show were just so odd. There's no instance in history where a mass influx of refugees caused a societal collapse (an \*efflux\* yes), and the disease comment was frankly a bit sinister. What's more if Japan's economy were so ruined by the depredations of the US, China, and India's AI economy, then why would refugees flood in? And how could technology regress to \*just\* the early Meiji period--after all they still have \*books\* from the present, meaning the knowledge is not lost. This is why collapse narratives always see technology fall \*very far\*, because it's sort of an all or nothing affair--falling back 150 years relative to the present just isn't possible, really. The \*only\* exception I can think of is if the nuclear war in question basically knocked out electricity, and caused global cooling, but this would likely, again, push society well below early Meiji in development.
Also, \*where\* are the supposed refugees? Everyone looks distinctly Japanese. If they're so post-Reiwa, why is their language still dotted with anglicisms?
And while the 3 kingdoms narrative is necessary for the adaptation, it is not realistic to the Japanese case. If anything, each island would become independent (which is to say nothing of Okinawa, Bonins, etc), and that Honshu would split in two.
Obviously suspension of disbelief is necessary for narratives, but this one wants to be somewhat 'realistic', given its source material and premise. This is a common problem with 'speculative science fiction'--the premise and its motivation contradict each other.
He wants to tell a story of a revolutionary who fights with words rather than violence, but, basically, because of these social scientific inconsistencies and somewhat reactionary assumptions actually work strongly against that intent.
この作品の作画は本当に良かったし、ストーリーも悪くなかったけど、Amazonがこんな露骨なナショナリストアニメの共同制作に携わってたのはめっちゃ驚いたわ(笑)
編集:
不満点:
『三国志演義』のネオ日中合作リメイク自体は歓迎するけど(たくさんあるし)、いくつか変なところがある。
歴史的に大量の難民流入が社会崩壊を引き起こした例はない(流出ならあるけど)。病気の描写もなんか不気味。
もし日本経済がアメリカ・中国・インドのAI経済にやられてボロボロなら、なんで難民が殺到するんだ?
技術が明治初期までしか退化しないってのも変。現代の本が残ってるなら知識は失われてないはず。崩壊ものでは技術はもっと大幅に退化するのが普通で、150年程度の後退は現実的じゃない。唯一あり得るのは核戦争で電力が止まり寒冷化したケースだけど、それなら明治初期よりさらに発展度が下がるはず。
あと難民はどこにいるんだ?キャラみんな日本人にしか見えないし。令和以降の設定ならなんで英語混じりの言葉遣いなんだ?
三国志の枠組みは原作再現に必要だけど、日本の現実には合わない。むしろ各島が独立するだろうし(沖縄や小笠原諸島はもちろん)、本州も2つに分かれるはず。
もちろんフィクションとしての飛躍は必要だけど、この作品は原作と設定からして「リアル」を志向してる。これが「仮想SF」によくある問題で、前提と動機が普通くん+23
Successful_Wing_5754
原文
i was looking for this comment. what an odd way to set up an anime set in the past-but-not-actually-past. the whole bit about the collapse of the economy, immigrants bringing diseases (the xenophobia was really leaking through), and reasons for the degradation to this era of technology all just simply felt odd. particularly the collapse of infrastructure, technology, and the population being reduced to 10% of its former numbers all happening after a revolution against the concentration of wealth in the hands of a few. as if the nuclear war wasn't what actually sent japan into the past, so to say, it was this revolution?
some of it felt eerily dogwhistle-y
このコメントを待ってたんだよ。過去でありながら実際には過去ではないという設定、奇妙だと思わないか?経済崩壊や移民による疾病持ち込み(外国人嫌悪感が滲み出てたよな)、そしてこの技術時代への退化の理由、全てが違和感しかなかった。特に、インフラとテクノロジーの崩壊、人口が従来の10%に減少したこと、これら全てが一部への富の集中に対する革命後に起こったという点。まるで日本を過去に突き落としたのが核戦争ではなく、この革命だったかのようだ。
一部は不気味なほどドッグホイッスル的に感じられたな。考察くん+14
amnsisc
原文
Interestingly, there’s a school of historiography (although it’s not anywhere near a majority let alone consensus opinion) that argues Japan’s surrender in WWII was primarily motivated by *domestic* fears of a (specifically communist USSR supported) revolution that would overthrow the royal family. In this telling, the bombings of Hiroshima & Nagasaki were actually welcomed by the elite, especially the nobility, because they ‘allowed’ Japan to surrender to the US rather than the Soviets. Tsuyoshi Hasegawa famously argues a version of this, as does Yukiko Kushiro (though her argument is much more complex and also argues Japan had a faction that was collaborative with the USSR).
In this vein, similar to how ‘Place Promised in Our Early Days’ is an alt history where, presumably without or in spite of the atom bomb, Hokkaido is partitioned to the Soviets, Nippon Sangoku could be seen as a timeline where revolution occurred immediately at the end of WWII, and caused an overthrow of the ruling line. Interestingly such a set up would actually plausibly account for a fall to Meiji era levels of development (though it wouldn’t be able to account for it not rapidly improving from that level).
But as for a dogwhistle, I agree, but I’d say the anime is quite a bit *louder* than a dogwhistle, since it doesn’t even use euphemisms like many other anime do, nor disguise metaphor as fantasy trope (like the ‘Amanto’ in Gintama). That’s why I was surprised Amazon co produced it since as a company they have a tendency toward not wanting to offend people. Although given that Prime is the most popular streaming service in Japan, and Prime Japan is not as popular outside of Japan as its other divisions relatively speaking, that may have something to do with it.
せやな、歴史学の一派として「日本は本土での共産革命を恐れて降伏した」って説があるんやな。広島・長崎の原爆はむしろ「ソ連じゃなくアメリカに降伏できる口実」としてエリート層に歓迎された、と。長谷川毅とか久保田裕子が有名な論者やね。
で、『雲のむこう、約束の場所』みたいに北海道がソ連領になるif世界線があるけど、『日本三國』は終戦直後に革命が起きて天皇制が倒れた世界線やろな。明治レベルまで技術が落ちる説明はつくわ。
ただ「犬笛(隠されたメッセージ)」ってより、アニメの方がガチでデカい声で叫んでると思うわ。銀魂の天人みたいな隠喩も遠回しもなしやからな。Amazonが共同制作したのは意外やったけど、Primeは日本では人気でも海外ではそこまでやし、その辺が理由かもしれん。2ちゃん+7
MonaganX
原文
Yeah, I was getting vaguely concerning vibes from the description of Japan's downfall. They were somewhat tempered when Saki did her egalitarian speech against the tax collector, but considering she was described as brash and immediately fridged, plus Aoteru's dubious argument about the irrationality of wearing a wedding dress, I suspect it was just meant to set her up as naive idealist who got killed for it to contrast the protagonist's purported rationality.
And you're also absolutely right about the logical issues behind the trajectory of the collapse somehow causing Japan to regress to specifically a Meji-era level of technology and culture. It's always a little worrisome when a story that's predicated on the protagonist being able to outsmart his adversaries has glaring holes in the worldbuilding.
It's still intriguing and I'm a sucker for a Kevin Penkin OST so I'll see where this goes, I just hope these red flags don't go off as hard as Saki's death flags.
確かに。日本の衰退の描写にはなんとなく不安な空気があったんだよね。サキが税吏に対して平等主義的な演説をした時は少し和らいだんだけど、彼女が無鉄砲で即座に殺されるって描写と、アオテルのウェディングドレスに関する怪しい主張を見ると、多分あれは主人公の合理性と対比させるための純粋な理想主義者として描かれてたんだろうな。
それに、衰退の過程でなぜ日本が明治時代の技術と文化にまで後退したのかっていう論理的な問題も、君の言う通りだよ。主人公が敵を出し抜くって話で世界観に穴があるのはちょっと気になる。
でもまだ面白いし、Kevin PenkinのOSTには弱いから続きは見るつもり。ただ、これらの赤信号がサキの死亡フラグほど強くならないことを願うよ。普通くん+9
amnsisc
原文
The official press release describes it as an adaptation of the Three Kingdoms:
The scale of degradation is the issue--it is too much to be accounted for by the amount of time that has passed, the clear preservation of knowledge and so on, and it is too little to be accounted for by the factors described. If the series took place 500-1000 years from now, and there was little to no published material left \*then\* the premise would be believable.
As for "closing their borders"--even during the so called 'sakoku' period, contact with the outside world was constant, both in recorded documents, AND, non recorded (since it was illegal, records were often fudged or destroyed, but internal complaints about the porousness of Japan's borders throughout this period are a constant). What's more, it had even more mediated and second degree contact than that (through Hokkaido, Satsuma/Ryukyu, Tsushima/Korea, Nanban trade/the Dutch, tally trade/the Chinese). And, more to the point, "refugees flooded in" is explicitly mentioned as concurrent with the rest. Therefore 'Japan remained unspoiled virgin territory cut off from the world that was then destroyed by a flood of refugees, \*after\* the collapse of everything else\* strains credulity.
Also, as another point, so called collapses are usually accompanied by \*outflows\* of people (especially if caused by disease and war), AND, for people in the underclass at least, historically their living standards actually rise, not fall. Bone density and nutrition indices after collapses regularly in the Middle East or Rome, for example, should clear signs of improvement after 'collapse',
But a nuclear winter or otherwise global climactic collapse would occur everywhere, the population would fall to incredibly low levels if not extinct, there'd be little agriculture possible, and there certainly wouldn't be remaining large scale infrastructure or collection of knowledge.
We can guess the writer did not think of them because basically few anime and manga do, whereas they repeatedly use the "China and US betrayal lead to mass influx of diseased refugees" trope (Ghost in a Shell, and Akira both mention these for example). Gintama, while not post apocalyptic, shares many aspects and it basically equates Japan with earth. Space Battleship Yamato is another example. To*wa no Yugure* features an almost identical implausible setting to Nippon Sangoku (though some hand wave explanation is given, and, more to the point, the people inhabiting Japan in that are ethnically diverse). Evangelion gives a slightly more plausible explanation for a similar conceit, but like Akira, and GoiS takes place in a world more similar to ours. Miyazakis post apocalyptic works take place in sui generis locales so do not have this problem (same is true for the various ones taking place underground, in space, on terraformed earths, in the far future etc).
公式プレスリリースでは三國志の翻案とされているが…。
経年劣化の規模に矛盾がある。時間経過や知識保存の程度を考慮すると劣化が大きすぎる一方、作中で説明された要因では小さすぎる。500〜1000年後の設定で、出版資料がほぼ残っていなければ説得力があった。
「鎖国」についても問題だ。実際の鎖国期でさえ対外接触は常に存在した(記録上も非記録上も)。北海道・琉球・朝鮮・オランダなどを通じた間接的接触もあった。しかも「難民流入」が同時進行と明記されているのに「日本だけが未開の聖域で、世界崩壊後に難民が押し寄せた」という設定は信じ難い。
また、崩壊時は通常は人口流出が伴い、下層階級の生活水準はむしろ向上する(中東やローマの崩壊後の骨密度・栄養指標が好例)。核の冬なら全世界的に農業不可能で大規模インフラも知識も残らない。
この設定の問題は、多くのアニメ・漫画が「中国とアメリカの裏切り→疾病難民流入」という使い古された図式を繰り返している点にある(『攻殻機動隊』『AKIRA』など)。『銀魂』は終末ものではないが日本=地球と同一視。『永遠の夕暮れ』はほぼ同じ非現実的設定。『エヴァ』はややマシな説明だが同傾向。宮崎駿作品は特殊な舞台設定なのでこの問題はない。考察くん+7
szalhi
Saki had death flags all over her. She definitely knew it, what better way to go out, than as a martyr?
The transition out of monochrome at the end must be related to the change in Aoteru's future plans.
I also want to know what happened to Okinawa.
サキ死亡フラグ立てまくってたよな。本人も分かってたんやろな、殉教者として散るのが一番の最期やろ。
最後のモノクロからカラーへの切り替え、あれ絶対アオテルの未来計画の変化に関係してるやろ。
沖縄がどうなったのかも気になるンゴwww2ちゃん+18
Single-Builder-632
Its sad that she could have been a good backbone for his battle ahead, but as soon as he said “id rather have a nice family life”, she was thinking “well guess i have to sacrifice myself to get him to act”.
確かに。戦いの支えになってくれたはずなのに、彼が「家族と穏やかに暮らしたい」って言った瞬間、彼女の中で「自分が犠牲になれば動くかな」って覚悟が決まったんだろうな。切ないね。普通くん+7
Silent-Witness1888
[Underage Smoking is Prohibited]
This gave me a good chuckle, considering there's two anime about it.
【未成年喫煙禁止】
これガチで草生えたわ
しかも関連アニメ2つもあるってなんだよww2ちゃん+15
moichispa
I'm surprised about Kevin Penkin doing the ost. It's really different to what I'm used to hear from him. The music is more similar to old live action movies rather than anime. Good job.
Great anime so far, I was worried It could not handle itself with such a serious topic but it seems like it is working.
Kevin PenkinがOST担当って意外だったな。普段彼から聴く感じとは全然違う。アニメっていうより昔の実写映画っぽい音楽だね。よくやってるよ。
今のところいいアニメだと思う。こんなシリアスなテーマをちゃんと扱えるか心配だったけど、うまくいってるみたい。普通くん+16
Ellmagronn
原文
This is the anime I was most looking forward to this season, and unfortunately, I didn't enjoy this first episode very much. It has tones of almost comedy while also trying to make you take the whole situation around the protagonist seriously.
It seems to me that all the political intrigues he will face throughout the story are going to be quite boring, because it looks like he will just be quoting lines from some character X in some book (I hope I'm wrong).
Someone in the comments here said it reminded them of Orb, and I strongly disagree. In Orb, you would feel fear when an inquisitor came on scene and started interrogating a citizen; here we have a "pseudo idol".
Note: before giving a negative vote, give your argument here, your argument might make me see the anime from a different perspective, giving a negative vote and leaving does not help at all.
今期一番楽しみにしてた作品だったんだが、初回は正直あまりハマれなかったな。コメディ調でありながら主人公の置かれた状況を真剣に受け止めさせようとするトーンが、どうも噛み合ってない気がする。
物語で描かれる政治的駆け引きも、おそらく主人公が本から引用した誰かのセリフをそのまま口にするだけになりそうで、退屈になる予感がする(願わくば間違っててほしい)。
コメントで『 Orb 』を連想したって声があったけど、俺は全く同意できない。『 Orb 』では審問官が現れて市民を尋問する場面に恐怖を感じたが、本作はどちらかというと「疑似アイドル」感が強い。
ちなみに反対票を入れる前に、自分の考えをここで述べてほしい。君の意見で別の見方ができるかもしれない。ただ反対票を入れて去るだけでは、何の助けにもならないからな。考察くん+14
Ashteron
>before giving a negative vote, give your argument here
Who do you think you are, coming to reddit and expecting counterarguments? /s
草、お前誰やねんRedditに来て反論期待してるとかガチで笑うわwww2ちゃん+8
EyeDeeAh_42
原文
>It has tones of almost comedy while also trying to make you take the whole situation around the protagonist seriously.
I didn't downvote you, but this seems entirely like a preference thing. The comedic and serious moments were separate, and I didn't feel that one got in the way of the other at all. Some people don't like comedic moments in brutal settings (a common complaint I've seen in FMA:B), but for me comedy is an essential part in what would otherwise be a series of exhaustingly serious monologues. It adds to the charm of of the characters.
>It seems to me that all the political intrigues he will face throughout the story are going to be quite boring, because it looks like he will just be quoting lines from some character X in some book
It seems to me like you are making assumptions right off the bat without even getting to these "political intrigue" moments.
In this episode: The fatso didn't even properly get the point across when Aoteru started quoting Sun Tzu. To me it seemed like the quotes were directed more towards himself (in order to strengthen his own conviction) than to answer fatso's question. Aoteru knew fatso wouldn't get it, we as the audience knew he wouldn't get it, but the quotes DID managed to get across us as the audience-- the fact that Aoteru has now changed from the guy he was before.
It's similar to Rafal's last words in Orb. They weren't strictly for Nowak alone, Nowak didn't even listen to them properly. They were to show the audience Rafal's mental state and Rafal's conviction.
同意の意を込めて、このコメントは非常に示唆に富む考察だと思う。
まずコメディとシリアスの分離についてだが、確かに両者は明確に区別されていて、互いに干渉していなかった。これは『鋼の錬金術師』でもよく見られる構成で、残酷な設定の中でのユーモアは、単なる息抜きではなく、キャラクターに人間味を与える重要な要素だと考察できる。もしコメディがなければ、重苦しい独白の連続で作品の魅力が半減していただろう。
次に政治的な駆け引きについての批判だが、これは初回エピソードだけで判断するのは早計だ。特に注目すべきは、青輝が孫子の引用を「太った男」に理解させるためではなく、自身の確信を強化するために使っていた点だ。これは『オーブ』のラファルの最後の言葉と同様の構造で、相手ではなく観客に主人公の精神状態と信念を伝えるための演出装置として機能している。つまり、引用は単なる知識の披歴ではなく、キャラクターの内面的変化を視覚化する伏線として機能している可能性が高い。考察くん+8
Full_frontal96
What an explosive start
So we have a general type of protagonist,it's been a while since i saw a general instead of a dinasty warriors hero
I don't like the art style,it feels very uncanny valley to me,but the story seems galvanizing,i'll try to hold out
爆発的なスタートだったな
主人公が将軍タイプってのは新鮮だね。無双系の英雄じゃなくて将軍ってのは久々に見た気がする
作画はちょっと不気味の谷って感じで好みじゃないけど、話は引き込まれるからもう少し我慢してみるよ普通くん+15
tripleaamin
原文
Standout debut episode to introduce the setting. One big difference that was shown between Atoeru and Saki is that the former is logical and the latter is more emotional. Though her words that Atoeru just lacks courage are important because you can be the smartest person in the world, but if you lack courage, all of that doesn't aid much.
As Atoeru learns of the death of his wife, he could have been irrational and led to his death. Technically that is courage, but illogical. As his wife mentioned, he can change the world. He combines his logic with the courage that his late wife wanted him to have. He did an outstanding job of using how corrupt the "Lord of Home Affairs" is against the tax collector. Just assuming that he is what Saki called "Fatso" is an insult to him and is reason enough to kill the tax collector because it was reason enough for Saki to die.
Very curious how this anime goes from here. Very intrigued.
初回から設定ぶち込んでくるな草
アトエルとサキの違いがハッキリ出てたわ。前者は論理的、後者は感情的ってな
でも「勇気がないだけ」ってサキの言葉が刺さるンゴね。頭良くても勇気無かったら意味ないし
妻の死を知った時、アトエルは冷静さ失わずに行動したわけやん。あれは勇気ではあるけど非論理的やろ
でも妻が言う通り、世界を変えられる男なんやな。論理と勇気を組み合わせた感じ
「内務大臣」の腐敗を逆手に取った采配ガチで上手いわ。サキが言う「デブ」呼ばわりだけで殺す理由になるってのは納得
今後の展開マジで気になるンゴwww2ちゃん+13
dfiekslafjks
I don't get it. They watch a person get ripped apart for nothing, and then they immediately commit a crime a million times worse. Of course they would be executed.
え、マジでわかんないんだけど!?何も悪いことしてない人がズタズタにされてるの見てさ、その後でそれの何百万倍もやばい犯罪やっちゃうって、そりゃ処刑されるじゃん!やばくね?笑ギャル+13
Namaryu
I think Saki knew she was gonna die for this and just wanted to give courage to Aoteru to unify Japan.
確かに、サキは自分の死を覚悟してたんだと思う。アオテルに日本統一への勇気を与えたかったんだろうね。普通くん+22
Ocixo
I wouldn't be entirely surprised if Saki had planned for this outcome. Now that she's gone, Aoteru has no reason to settle for *just* a peaceful life anymore.
それな。サキが最初からこの結末を見越してたとしても全然驚かないッ。もう彼女はいないし、アオテルが「ただ平和に生きる」って選択肢に甘んじる理由が完全に消えたんだよ…しんどすぎる。感情くん+13
mekerpan
It is very possible.
But I was so looking forward to her being our continuing heroine....
それな!確かにありえる話じゃんね〜
でもさ、まじでずっと彼女がヒロイン続けてくれたらなって思ってたんだけど…泣けるわギャル+9
Lapiz_lasuli
Probably what she meant when she said "It's my fault you've become an agricultural officer."
それなッ!「お前を農耕官にしたのは俺の責任だ」って言ったのも、まさにこれだったんだろうな…泣ける感情くん+13
scarpedieme
Exactly. There was a lot of symbolism this episode with fire and the color red (lamps, cigarettes & ashes, blood). Saki chose to ignite the fire within Aoteru to unite Japan.
確かに。今回のエピソードでは火や赤色(ランプ、タバコと灰、血)の象徴が多かったね。サキは青照の中の火を燃やして日本を統一させようとしたんだと思う。普通くん+12
Downtown_Club6056
This is awesome. And i think it's gonna be even more awesome. Just need more recognition and that's it. By all means it would carry itself.
マジで最高すぎるッ!しかもこれからさらにヤバくなる予感しかしない。あとはもっと認知されれば完璧。絶対に独りでに化ける作品だよ、エモすぎる!感情くん+12
Mysterious-Gap6842
This looks amazing, which makes it disappointing that the creators of this show (though this probably just mirrors the manga) reached for such a lazy, tired and misogynist trope to provide the protagonist with a tragic backstory.
これは見た目はすごく良いんだけど、作者(多分原作もだけど)が主人公に悲しい過去を与えるために、こんな手抜きで使い古された女性差別的なテンプレを使ったのは残念だな。普通くん+12
Leajey
Is there a way to do this trope and not be misogynistic in your opinion or is just writing in this trope inherently misogynistic? If you replace the wife character with a mother is that still sexist?
確かにそれな!でもこのトロープ自体がもうやばくない?笑
妻キャラを母親に変えたらどうなるんだろ?それでも性差別っぽく感じるかもね〜ギャル+9
Mysterious-Gap6842
原文
That's a really good question.
First off, I don't think there's a fundamental difference between a mother, wife or love interest in this regard.
In my view, the important elements of this trope are that it uses a character as mere instrument for the development of the protagonist. The character is not only denied agency, this is done in violent and gruesome ways. The more gruesome, we might say, the better for the protagonist, whose development arc is defined on one end by the trauma of this event.
What makes this trope sexist is the over-representation of women in the role of victim against the backdrop of a real-world social and cultural narrative which associates them with passivity, fragility and submissiveness.
As such, the writing would avoid at least my charge of misogyny by either giving the character depth and agency (though at that point it would no longer be this trope but just a main character dying, e.g. FF7 Aeris), or the common social understanding of femininity would have to shift completely (which I sincerely hope for, but is outside the control of the author).
It could be said that I am too hasty in pointing to this as yet another example of fridging. Saki did exhibit agency since she herself chose to confront the tax collector rather than walking away, which arguably makes her at least an imperfect example of the trope. However, as a character she is still relegated to the ultimate passivity of death almost immediately upon being introduced. If the rest of the story revisits her, for example through flashbacks or as a ghost 👻, shedding light on her own motivation and how she was led down her path, I will gladly eat my words. In that case, I would say it's not so much a version of this trope done well but rather of this trope being averted altogether.
In conclusion, I don't personally think this trope can be written without veering into misogyny under our current social conditions. I might well be overlooking something, I wonder what you think.
それって本当に良い質問だと思う。
まず、母親・妻・恋愛対象ってこの点では根本的な違いはないと思うんだよね。
個人的には、この手法の本質は「キャラを主人公成長のための道具にする」ってことだと思う。しかも単に主体性を奪うだけでなく、暴力的で残酷な方法でやる。残酷であればあるほど主人公の成長の糧になるっていう構図。
これが性差別的になるのは、現実社会で女性が「受動的」「脆い」「従順」って見なされがちな文化的背景があるから。そういう背景の上で、女性が被害者役に過剰に選ばれてるのが問題。
だから、この手法がミソジニーじゃないって言えるためには、①キャラに深みと主体性を持たせる(でもそれだと単なる主要キャラの死になっちゃうけど。例:FF7のエアリス)か、②社会の女性観そのものが変わる必要がある(作者の手には負えないけど、そうなってほしい)。
佐紀の場合は、彼女自身が税吏に立ち向かう選択をしてるから、主体性は少しある。でも、登場してすぐ死んで最終的な受動性に回収されてるのが気になる。もし今後、回想や幽霊として彼女の動機や背景が掘り下げられるなら、俺の言ってたことは撤回するよ。その場合は、この手法を「うまくやった」んじゃなくて「回避した」って言うべきだと思う。
結論としては、今の社会状況じゃこの手法をミソジニーじゃなく書くのは難しいと思う。何か見落としてるかもしれないけど、君はどう思う?普通くん+11
Leajey
原文
Appreciate the response. Gave me stuff to think about. Like you said Saki seemed like a more bold and less passive character than the main character and I liked how she was characterized but I do understand this trope seems to be at its worse when you create female characters for the purpose of just killing them and giving the male character motivation.
Not necessarily turned off by the decisions of this anime but I can see this trope in many other media done poorly.
返信ありがとう。色々と考えさせられたよ。君の言う通り、サキは主人公より大胆で受け身じゃないキャラとして描かれていて、そのキャラ付けは良かったと思う。ただ、女性キャラをただ殺すためだけに作り、男性キャラの動機付けにする場合、この手法が最も悪質になるのは理解できる。
このアニメの選択に必ずしも嫌気がさしたわけじゃないが、他の多くのメディアでこのパターンが酷い形で使われているのを目にしてきた。考察くん+5
StormSlasher563
Peaaaak. Sleeper anime of the season
最高すぎるッ!!!今期の隠れた神アニメすぎる感情くん+11
Shimmering-Sky
原文
- I suppose this is one way to have the series feel like it’s in the past but it’s actually in the future.
- I love Tatsuya Kitani’s music. Awesome OP.
- Okay this is a fun way of having her interact with the background.
- Wait, the library director died only a few days after the wedding?
- Saki’s trying to push him into something ambitious, but Aoteru doesn’t want that. Something’s going to happen to Saki, isn’t it…
- Good lord…
- Oh boy.
- Okay fuck this guy.
- She’s not wrong.
- Fuck, exactly what I was afraid of…
- Bro is locking the fuck in now.
- At least the tax collector got his comeuppance, but damn…
- The ED song is also very pretty.
- Aw, he’s cremating Saki in the wedding dress she liked…
・過去編かと思いきや実は未来って展開か…これはこれでアリやな
・キタニタツヤの曲マジで神。OP良すぎンゴwww
・こういう背景との絡め方、意外と面白いやん
・え、司書長結婚式から数日で死んだんか?
・サキが無茶なことさせようとしてるけどアオテルは乗り気じゃない。これ絶対サキに何か起きるフラグやろ…
・マジかよ…
・おっと…
・このクソ野郎、マジで許せん
・ワイもそう思うわ
・くそっ、やっぱりそうなるか…
・兄貴、本気モード入ったな
・税吏がざまあみろってのは良かったけど、それでもな…
・ED曲もめっちゃ綺麗やな
・ああ…サキの好きだったウェディングドレスで荼毘に付してる…泣けるわ2ちゃん+12
koteshima2nd
原文
Calling it now, this might be THE hidden gem of the season.
Very interesting premise and worldbuilding from the onset. Didn't waste time to get you caught up in the fictional setting all while immersing you immediately.
As soon as you throw Sun Tzu quotes at me at a point I didn't expect, you have hooked me. I expected Saki to be targeted since the Taira clan seemed to be petty assholes, but I didn't expect they'd outright chop her up out in the blizzard, holy shit.
Aoteru's clever revenge was an insane 4D chess move. All that right after he was presented with his wife's head, too. His calm facade was too good, fatso did not see the rage and sorrow Aoteru was hiding behind them. That breakdown scene made me cry a bit too damn it. We didn't get to know Saki much, but already her impact on the story is solidified.
断言するが、今期の隠れた名作になる可能性を秘めている。
設定と世界観の構築が最初から非常に興味深い。フィクションの世界に没入させつつ、無駄なく引き込んでくる。
予想外のタイミングで孫子の引用をぶち込まれた時点で完全に心を掴まれた。平家が小物のクズどもだった以上、早季が標的になるのは予想できたが、吹雪の中で真っ二つにされるとは思わなかった、マジかよ。
青輝の巧妙な復讐は正に四次元チェスの一手だ。しかも妻の首を突きつけられた直後だぞ。あの冷静な仮面が完璧すぎて、デブは青輝の奥に秘めた怒りと悲しみに全く気づかなかった。あの崩壊シーンで俺も泣いちまったよ。早季の出番は少なかったが、既に物語への影響力は確固たるものだ。考察くん+9
minnieboss
Really cool art style and serious tone, glad to see something so original and carefully produced!
本当にカッコいいアートスタイルとシリアスな雰囲気だね。こんなに独創的で丁寧に作られた作品が見られて嬉しいよ!普通くん+9
gc11117
Alright, you've got my attention.
おっ、まじで気になるじゃん!やっと見る気になったって感じ?笑ギャル+10
KingKurai
Tonally the closest thing I've ever seen to Golden Kamuy.
トーン的に『ゴールデンカムイ』に一番近い作品だと思う。普通くん+9
Varendant
The political maneuvering & intrigue of Acca-13 with added bursts of brutality of Shigurui. Insanely promising start, looking forward to seeing how Aoteru develops from here.
『ACCA13区監察課』の政治工作・陰謀に、『シグルイ』の暴力性をプラスした感じやな。スタートからガチで期待できそうやん。これからのアオテルの成長が楽しみすぎるンゴwww2ちゃん+8
pinweed
woah. suprised me. the tonal whiplash was slighty unbelievable, but overall very strong, especially the drawings and direction.
おお、びっくりしたわ。トーンの急変にはちょっと戸惑ったけど、全体的にすごく良かった。特に作画と演出がやばかったな。普通くん+9
AshCrimsonnn
Why is no one talking about the opening song? It’s an absolute banger!!! Tatsuya Kitani does it again, first with hell’s paradise s2 op & now this… man is on a roll rn.
オープニング曲の話ししてる人いなさすぎない!? マジで優勝すぎるッ!!! 木谷達也またやってくれたよ、『地獄楽』S2のOPに続いてこれかよ…今ノリにノってるなこの人。感情くん+7
AshCrimsonnn
That was a brilliant first episode. I cannot believe that it has only 11k members on MAL. People are gonna sleep on this gem like they did with orb 🥲
やばくない!?初回から神回すぎるんだけど!! MALのメンバー数がたった11kって信じられないじゃん!みんな『オーブ』の時みたいにこの名作スルーしちゃうのかよ…🥲ギャル+6
ElliotAlderson2024
I haven't had such a traumatic reaction since Babylon Episode 7 in Nov 2019. That fatso needs to burn alive, and slowly.
The moment Saki interfered with the tax collector I knew she was dead. So fucking unfair, but apparently this 'state' they live in is like North Korea.
ワイ、『バビロン』7話(2019年11月)以来のトラウマやわ。あのデブは生きたままゆっくり焼き殺せ。サキが税務署員に干渉した瞬間「あ、これ死んだわ」って思ったンゴ。ガチで理不尽すぎるやろ。でもこの連中が住んでる「国家」って北朝鮮みたいやな。草2ちゃん+7
PsychoSushi27
Is this like a Japanese retelling of the Romance of the Three Kingdoms with Aoteru based on Zhuge Liang?
これって日本の三国志のリメイクみたいな感じで、孔明ベースのAoteruが出てくるってこと?普通くん+6
2kenzhe
原文
Ok wow what an episode. Of the season so far this probably is the first episode that grabbed my attention the most.
I figured the wife Saki was going to die but I loved their dynamic so much I kept thinking she'll gotta live plz somehow but then of course she died. Then, instead of falling into the fire of rage, he instead rationalizes so quickly and his rage turns into a deep, brewing ocean instead and looking to the future.
Amazing then, how he stated only facts, no deception, got the tax collector dude executed as well.
I had this manga on plan to read but I'm really glad I'm getting to experience this first. I hope the story and quality keeps up and doesn't disappoint because this is a very promising start. I can't wait to see how he unites Japan.
おっまじかよ今回の話www 今期で一番引き込まれたわ
妻のサキは死ぬと思ってたけど、2人の関係良すぎて「頼むから生き延びてくれ」ってずっと思ってたンゴ…結局死んだけどな。でも怒りの炎に飲まれるんじゃなくて、すぐに冷静になって怒りを深く煮えたぎる海に変えて未来を見据えるスタイル、天才かよ
しかも事実だけ言って騙しもせずに、あの税吏も処刑させたのガチで草
原作マンガ読もうと思ってたけどアニメで先に体験できて良かったわ。このクオリティ保ってくれるなら神アニメ確定やろ。日本統一するの楽しみすぎる2ちゃん+5
FirstSea
Predictable plot, overblown animation like violet evergarden, big western company behind it...
It's just amazon slop pretending to be a good anime!
まじで展開読めるし、アニメーションはヴァイオレット・エヴァーガーデンみたいに過剰すぎじゃね?しかも大手海外企業が絡んでるし…
ただのAmazonの粗悪品がいいアニメのフリしてるだけじゃん!やばくね?ギャル+6
Silver_Shelter_5153
buzz word buzz word buzz word
草 バズワード連呼しとるだけやんwww
Amazonのゴミって決めつけてるけど、作画はガチで綺麗やろ
確かに展開は読めるけど、それだけで切るのはもったいないンゴ2ちゃん+14
RyouBestGirl
Akane-Banashi is on YouTube:
Just use american VPN or ytdl
Akane-BanashiがYouTubeに上がってるよ
アメリカのVPN使うかytdlで落とせばいいんじゃないかな普通くん+5
RyouBestGirl
Yeah, Youtube version only available in North and South America, hence both Portuguese Brazil and Latin Spanish subtitles are also on the channel .
YouTube版は南北アメリカだけなんだよね。だからポルトガル語とラテンアメリカスペイン語の字幕もチャンネルにあるってわけ。感情くん+5
thisisdropd
It's on Amazon Prime. The bot had always listed services as 'None' for premieres. The info should be updated next episode.
Amazonプライムやんけ。今までボットがプレミア放送の配信元を「なし」って表示してたけど、次回からちゃんと更新されるやろ。2ちゃん+18