SEBASTlANVETTEL
did anyone else catch that You and I Are Polar Opposites cameo at the of the episode? You can see how Suzuki, Watanabe & Satou walk out of the restaurant in the background! Minato is slowly falling for Koyuki without realizing it seems.
あのエピソード終盤の「君と僕は正反対」カメオ、気づいた人いる?鈴木、渡辺、佐藤が背景のレストランから出てくるのが確認できるんだよな。湊は徐々に小雪に惹かれつつあるけど、本人はまだ自覚してないように見える。この演出、制作陣の意図が感じられる。考察くん
Kirosh2
You and I are Polar Opposites had a Cameo of Koyun, Miki and another girl. So it's only fair.
『君と僕の極夜』にコユンとミキと、もう一人の女の子がカメオ出演してたんだ。だからこれでおあいこだね。普通くん
Zemahem
Their cameo was much more lowkey that I actually missed it the first time. Meanwhile, there's no missing the Polar Opposites girls here lol. They even had them walk out so we get a second chance to spot them. Makes me wanna see some kind of special episode or OVA where they have a proper crossover.
最初見た時マジで気づかんかったわw 控えめすぎやろ
対してPolar Oppositesの女の子たちはド派手やな草 わざわざ歩かせてもう一度見せてくれてるし
これでクロスオーバーのOVAとか特別編出してくれたらワイ大歓喜やンゴwww2ちゃん
Frontier246
Suzuki's pink hair really stands out, especially in this show.
鈴木のピンク髪めっちゃ映えてるよな、特にこのアニメだとwwwwおじ
jamemeus
Guess who the main character is, but for once it’s not the girl with pink hair.
ねえねえ、メインキャラ誰だと思う?でも今回はピンク髪の子じゃないんだよね!やばくね!?ギャル
aitsdavid
Wait really? No way which episode! Damn that's awesome, really cool to learn that these two awesome anime and stories are from the same creator/author! Always love seeing cameos like that
え、マジで?!どのエピソードだよ!やばい、めっちゃ嬉しいわ。この2つの最高のアニメとストーリーが同じ作者だって知れてマジでクール!こういうカメオ出演はいつ見ても好きだな。普通くん
Kirosh2
Episode 11 : You can check the top comment in the source corner. But in case you just want to check it out, here is the picture shared. Very small cameo.
11話か。ソースコーナーのトップコメント見ればわかるけど、とりあえず見たいって人のために画像貼っとくわw めっちゃ小さいカメオ出演だな笑wwwおじ
Avatar_Yaksha
Very small indeed. Considering that Ramparts hasn't even started airing at that point, anime-onlies wouldn't have noticed those characters at all.
せやな、マジでちっちゃいな。あの時点じゃRampartsすら放送始まっとらんから、アニメ勢はキャラに全然気づかんやろなwww2ちゃん
Pengwynd1
They walk by in the background during one of the scenes at the theme park (I think it's when they first arrive there) in episode 11.
えっ、11話のテーマパークのシーン(たぶん着いたばっかのとこ)で後ろ歩いてたやつだ!細かすぎるけど見つけたのすごいッ!感情くん
SEBASTlANVETTEL
yep, it is a cute and nice detail
確かに、かわいくていい細かい演出だね普通くん
Weak_Season_Of_Anime
Don't miss the Gapacho cameo too!
ギャパチョのカメオ出演も見逃すなよッ!最高すぎる!!感情くん
LeonKevlar
Man, I didn't expect them to reveal Gapacho here.
マジでギャパチョがここで登場するなんて思わなかったんだけど!やばくね!?ギャル
cereal_bawks
Wait when? I missed this.
え、いつ?これ見逃したわ。普通くん
Dramatic_Kale8142
Wait... A Gapacho cameo too? Where? Saw the others but not him
待て…ガパチョのカメオ出演もあったのか?どこだ?他の連中は見つけたが、奴だけは見つけられなんだ。武士
Hot-Log6283
Gapacho is everything everywhere all at once.
ギャパチョはまじでマルチバース級の存在だね普通くん
Zero3020
Pictures for the interested .
興味ある人用に画像貼っておくよ。ドライおじ
Frontier246
It's kind of amazing how well they captured the designs despite being a different studio.
別のスタジオなのにあれだけデザインを再現できてるのはすごいよね普通くん
Ok_Calligrapher_6797
Both studios captured really well the mangaka's style
両方のスタジオとも、原作者の画風をしっかり捉えてたな。悪くなかったよ。ドライおじ
Tricky-Ad7897
didn't even realize it was different studios until this comment but I guess i should've realized since ramparts is on netflix lol
草、言われてみれば確かにスタジオ違うやん。Netflixで氷の城壁やってる時点で気づけよって話やなwww2ちゃん
liggieep
netflix doesn't make the anime, they license it.
Netflixはアニメを作ってるわけじゃなくて、ライセンスしてるだけだよ。普通くん
Frontier246
It was so surreal seeing them look straight out of their other anime but I guess this is just returning the favor to the Ramparts cameo that was in Polar Opposites . We're a shared universe of this authors' teen romance anime! Minato: "That smile...that damn smile..."
草、他のアニメからそのまま出てきててワロタwww
でもPolar Oppositesに氷の城壁がカメオ出演してたし、そのお返しってわけか。
この作者の青春ラブコメアニメは全部同じ世界線なんやな。
ミナト「その笑顔…あのクソッたれの笑顔…」ってなるわw2ちゃん
Tricky-Ad7897
Koyuki and Suzuki will return in Polar Opposites: Doomsday
雪姫と鈴木、奴らは再び現れるのだ。『氷の城壁:終焉』にてな。中二病
FarCritical
I know they're from the same author but you know a series from just a season ago left its mark if cameos from it are already this exciting
わかる!同じ作者って知ってたけど、たった1シーズン前の作品のカメオがもうこんなに興奮するなんて、そのシリーズがどれだけ心に残ったかってことだよね…エモすぎるッ!感情くん
Tricky-Ad7897
Polar Opposites was so good when deciding what to watch this seasons ramparts was a no brainer, and i'm enjoying the vibe despite it being way different.
やば!Polar Oppositesまじで神回だったじゃん!今期何見るか決める時、Ramparts一択だったんだけど笑 雰囲気かなり違うけど、それがまた良き!楽しすぎ!ギャル
Roskal
Suzuki flashbanged me. Its hard to miss her.
鈴木の登場に目がやられたわ。彼女を見逃すのは難しいな。普通くん
Gaporigo
Was very much not subtle at all x)
草ww 露骨すぎて笑うわwww2ちゃん
runevault
Nishi was in episode 1 too. I originally shrugged it off but clearly there are cameos between the two stories.
西も1話に出てたよね。最初は気にしなかったけど、明らかに2つの作品間でカメオがあるんだな。普通くん
Infinite_Object_3090
Wait really? Do you have a timestamp? I totally missed it 😯
まじで!?タイムスタンプ教えてくれない?完全に見逃したんだけど😯ギャル
runevault
I don't have a timestamp, but as I write my comments as I go and it was super early in the comment it should be in the first five minutes. Here's the comment (though at the time I brushed it off as just being same art style)
タイムスタンプはないけど、最初の5分以内に書いたコメントやで。「同じ画風やな」ってスルーしてたけどな。2ちゃん
NanDemoKnaives
You also see them seated in the restaurant straight after the ED.
ED終わった直後にレストランに座ってるの見えたんだけどッ!それエモすぎるだろ!感情くん
PerfectBeige
I thought we might have had a title drop too, only to learn that different but similar words are used - taikyoku / 対局 in Ramparts versus seihantai / 正反対 in the title of Polar Opposites.
「タイトル回収かと思ったら、違うけど似た単語だったんだな。『氷の城壁』では"対局"、『正反対』のタイトルでは"正反対"って使われてて。」普通くん
SezyFazes
Very happy with how they handled the cameo from both studios.
やば!両方のスタジオのカメオ登場の扱い方がまじ最高すぎるんだけど!嬉しすぎるじゃん!ギャル
mekerpan
You saw those Polar Opposites, prior to their exit, sitting at a nearby table.
あのポーラー・オポジットが、出て行く前に近くのテーブルに座ってたの見たよ。普通くん
Reblim7325
Repetí 2 veces la escena pensando que solo me lo imaginé
2回も見直したわ。夢かと思ったけどまじだったッ!感情くん
Tanyan-nightchord
Catch it you say? I SCREAMED
「捕まえろって?俺、叫んじゃったよ」普通くん
abandoned_idol
I missed it... I was too invested in the story... tears up
泣いた……ストーリーに没入しすぎて気づかなかった……涙が止まらないッ!感情くん
2001djhz
Yes. I was just watching the episode, and I stopped it at that precise moment. Easter Egg, lol. Though I just checked, and it turns out that the same mangaka, Koucha Agasawa, made both manga.
同意。ちょうどそのエピソード見てて、その瞬間に止めたんだよね。イースターエッグだなw でも調べてみたら、同じ作者の紅茶あがさわ先生が両方の漫画描いてたみたい。普通くん
Rasputin1720
My jaw dropped lmao I was like what
ワイ「マジかよ」って声出たわ草www2ちゃん
Nedstark78
I think he will get mad s igarashi he sees her bother her . Or sees her upset by him. igarashi Probably wasn't aware he hurt her or is really not nice and Minato may hit him with a ball in a head and they will be shocked Minato shows being mad
五十嵐が彼女を困らせているのを見たら、五十嵐は自分が彼女を傷つけたことに気づいてないか、あるいは本当に不親切なのかもしれない。湊が怒りを見せて、ボールを頭にぶつける展開になるんじゃないか。その衝撃で五十嵐も驚くという構図が読めるな。考察くん
Nachtwandler_FS
They were also shown sitting and walking behing Koyun and Miki's friends back.
やばくない!?コユンとミキの友達の後ろに座ったり歩いたりしてるシーンあったんだけど笑ギャル
ProfessionalChard213
I definitely did ✌🏽😅
確かにそれはやったわ ✌🏽😅普通くん
IceSmiley
Yea, I went back and paused it to make sure. I didn't know it was just going to be just a second, I thought there was going to be a crossover. It's probably not good that that was my favorite part of this episode
ワイも戻して一時停止して確認したわ。まさか一瞬だけとは思わんかったンゴ…クロスオーバー来るかと思ったのに草。つってもこれが今週のベストパートなのはちょっとヤバいなwww2ちゃん
BruhsifiedYT
The episode itself is good though
このエピソード自体は普通に良かったじゃん!ギャル
VoidRay728
PSA: don't miss the post credits scene, a few characters from another familiar series make a cameo appearance. Also don't let the drama distract you from the fact that Yota pairs his ramen with pancakes (with cream) for lunch. You can trust the guy who looks the most aloof (relatively) to have the most unusual eating habits.
エンドロール後のシーン見逃すなよ!おなじみの別作品から何人かカメオ出演してる。あとドラマに気を取られて見逃しがちだけど、ヨータが昼飯にラーメンと(クリーム入りの)パンケーキを合わせてる件について。一番クールそうな奴(相対的に)ほど食習慣がぶっ飛んでるって信じていいと思う。普通くん
Frontier246
Is that the source of his giraffe-level tallness!?
草www キリンの高さってそういうことかよ!2ちゃん
mekerpan
I could eat 10 times more in college than I can now (50+ years later).
まじでわかる!大学時代って今より10倍は食えたわ(50年後の今と比べて)笑ギャル
ToTheNintieth
We got a 70+ year old romcom anime watcher?
我が目を疑った…70歳を超えた老賢者が、ラブコメアニメの世界に足を踏み入れているとは。これは運命の悪戯か、それとも新たなる伝説の幕開けなのだ。中二病
mekerpan
74 next month.... Well my favorite literary novelist is Jane Austen, and one of my favorite genre novelists is Georgette Heyer. So romantic comedies are of particular interest to me. 😉
74歳になるんだけどさ~、私の好きな文芸作家はジェーン・オースティンで、ジャンル小説家だとジョージェット・ヘイヤーなの!だからロマンティックコメディにはめっちゃ興味あるんだよね😉ギャル
ToTheNintieth
Mad respect haha, glad you're enjoying this
某、思わず笑みがこぼれ申した。お主が楽しんでおる様子、実に喜ばしいことでござる!武士
TheBusStop12
Also don't let the drama distract you from the fact that Yota pairs his ramen with pancakes (with cream) for lunch. You can trust the guy who looks the most aloof (relatively) to have the most unusual eating habits. I've been wondering what's up with Yota seeing as the other 3 all have deep seated issues they struggle with, but Yota seems to be fine. Turns out he's a psychopath
あと、ドラマに気を取られてる場合じゃないけど、陽太って昼にラーメンにパンケーキ(クリーム付き)を合わせて食べてるんだぜ。一番クール(に見える)なやつほど変な食習慣を持ってるって信じられるわ。他の3人がみんな深い問題抱えてるのに陽太だけ平気そうで何かおかしいと思ってたけど、まさかサイコパスだったとはな。普通くん
Choice-Witness-1274
right?? like who would've known that the most aloof guy would be the worst of them all
それな!!まさか一番クールな奴が最悪のクズだったなんて誰が予想できたんだよ…無理すぎるッ!感情くん
Kilamity
nah man, nothing will ever trump the psychopath known as kengo dojima from Shoushimin
いや、小市民シリーズの堂島健吾みたいなサイコパスには敵わないよな普通くん
TheBusStop12
That's true, what he did to that milk was just straight up murder
せやな、あの牛乳の扱いは完全に殺人やろwww2ちゃん
testthrowawayzz
The way he eats sliced cake is also very wtf
あのスライスケーキの食べ方もかなりヤバいよね普通くん
whywouldyouevendotha
Haha I binged Shoushimin over the last couple of weeks, glad to see Kengo is still recognised for his deviance.
あはは!私ここ数週間で「しょうしみん」一気見したんだけど、ケンゴのヤバさがまだ認知されてて嬉しいじゃん!やばくね?ギャル
Kirosh2
There is a reason why he's so tall. Mind you, that might come to bit him in the ass in like 15 years.
あいつがデカいのには理由があるんやろな。でも15年後にはその身長が仇になるかもしれんけどな草2ちゃん
CitronClassic672
There’s carbo-loading and then there’s Yota
カーボローディングにもレベルがあるけど、陽太のは別格だね普通くん
zairaner
Also don't let the drama distract you from the fact that Yota pairs his ramen with pancakes (with cream) for lunch. You can trust the guy who looks the most aloof (relatively) to have the most unusual eating habits. ketchup cheesecake flashbacks intensify
草ァ!ヨウタの昼飯、ラーメンにパンケーキ(クリーム乗せ)ってガチやんwww
一番クールそうなやつほど食い合わせ変なんはあるあるやな
ケチャップチーズケーキのフラッシュバックが止まらねえンゴwww2ちゃん
socialistRanter
Yota will actually eat the horse when he’s hungry. He’s a growing boy (there’s no limit to his height)
ヨータって腹減ったらマジで馬食うんだよな。成長期の男の子だし(身長に限界がない)普通くん
testthrowawayzz
carbs & carbs & fat
「炭水化物×炭水化物×脂質ってやばくね!?笑 完全にジャンクフード構成じゃん!」ギャル
ModieOfTheEast
Honestly, I don't see the issue. When I eat I mostly make a difference between main course and desert. And pancakes (depending on how many) would fit into the latter. So I didn't even get the issue. But if he was actually eating it together, then I understand.
正直、何が問題なのかよくわかんないな。俺が食事するときは主にメインとデザートを分けてるだけだし。パンケーキ(量にもよるけど)は後者に入ると思うんだよね。だから問題すら気づかなかったよ。でももし彼が実際に一緒に食べてたなら、それは理解できるわ。普通くん
xdxdlol0434
原文
It may not be as clear in Polar Opposites, but Ramparts of Ice shows how good Agasawa is in putting words to describe feelings. That stutter when trying to apologize because you have so many things panting up to you so you can only cry is something deeply personal yet somehow so damn relatable. Then again, if you are alone enough like Koyuki, perhaps it’s only natural if you develop enough zen points to be a good self reflector.
Polar Oppositesではあんま分からんかもやけど、氷の城壁で阿賀沢の感情描写の上手さがガチで光ってるわ。謝ろうとして言葉が詰まって泣くしかなくなるあの感じ、めっちゃ個人的やのにクソ共感できるンゴwww でも小雪みたいに孤独極まれば、自己内省力が仙人レベルになるのも当然っちゃ当然やな。2ちゃん
Frontier246
This really captures realistically how it feels to be super self-conscious and how difficult it can be to communicate and understand someone.
これ、すごくリアルに自意識過剰な気持ちと、相手とコミュニケーション取るのがどれだけ難しいかってのを描いてるよね。普通くん
Zemahem
It's too real. And so is Koyuki feeling bad about it cause she thinks the other party would mistake her as trying to garner sympathy.
やばくね!?リアルすぎて泣けるんだけど笑
小雪が「同情されたいわけじゃないのに…」って思っちゃうのもまじで分かりすぎるじゃん!ギャル
socialistRanter
Yeah that’s me overthinking every social interaction I have
わかる……俺も全部の人間関係でこれだわ。考えすぎてしんどすぎるッ!感情くん
DugACCat
原文
The way this author handles conversations is amazing. So real, full of the withholding that people often do, which leads to misinterpretation and hurt feelings, even in people who don’t show obvious signs of it. Really impressed by some of the emotional nuance of this series. I wasn’t enjoying it on the same level as Polar Opposites, because I was more in the mood for the quirky positivity there, but it’s quickly (if sneakily) growing on me. I especially like that the same creator can do both.
この作者の会話描写は本当に秀逸だな。現実の人間関係でありがちな「言い淀み」や「省略」を忠実に再現していて、それが誤解や感情のすれ違いを生む構造になっている。表面的には分かりにくい形で傷つく人々の心理まで描かれている点に、深い共感を覚える。
『正反対な君と僕』のようなポジティブな奇抜さを求めている時は、本作の魅力に気づきにくいかもしれない。だが、静かに、それでいて確実に心に染み入ってくる作品だ。同じ作者が両方の作風を描き分けられる点にも注目したい。考察くん
abandoned_idol
To me, episode 5 of Ice Ramparts felt very "We are Polar Opposites"-like. I can see the common kernel/core of seeing characters having distinct values yet still meeting on common ground. I feel that the "it's different" warning might not have been necessary for me. I like this sour flavored variation of "Polar Opposites" just as much. So sour! eats more angsty piano
「氷の城壁」の第5話、なんか『正反対な君と僕』っぽいなって思った。価値観は違うけど共通点を見つけるって核が同じ感じ。事前に「違うよ」って警告されるほどじゃなかったかな。俺はこの酸っぱいバージョンの『正反対』も好きだよ。めっちゃ酸っぱい!もっと切ないピアノくれ普通くん
Ordinal43NotFound
原文
I've been saying this time and time again, but Agasawa-sensei is a maestro at capturing these subtle, in-between emotions that you barely notice IRL or just struggle to put into words. It's these small, easily overlooked moments that can lead to misunderstandings or communication breakdowns, and yet the author lays them out so matter-of-fact-ly, without ever coming off as being edgy or pretentious (this is the biggest thing to me).
何度も言うけど阿賀沢先生はガチで天才やわ。実際の人間関係で気づきにくい、言葉にしづらい微妙な感情をめっちゃ的確に描くんよ。そういう見逃しがちな小さな瞬間が誤解やすれ違いの原因になるのに、作者はそれを気取らず淡々と描いてくれてる(これが一番デカい)。2ちゃん
ThrowCarp
It's admirable she has the courage to change though. To take the first step forward.
でも、彼女が変わる勇気を持ってるのはすごいと思うよ。最初の一歩を踏み出すってことだからね。普通くん
plsdontattackmeok
Yota the MVP
やばっ、ヨータがマジでMVPじゃん!ギャル
Frontier246
Mr. Giraffe is hard carrying everybody with his height and good vibes.
キリンさん、身長と良い雰囲気でみんなを支えてる感じだよね。すごいわかる。普通くん
MegaAltarianite
The tall one of the group tends to. See Kimi ni Todoke and April Showers.
確かに!背の高いキャラってそういうポジ多いよね!君に届けとか四月は君の嘘とかまさにそれじゃん!やばくね!?笑ギャル
OctoSevenTwo
Frankly I think Yota’s my favorite character.
正直、ヨータが一番好きなキャラだな。普通くん
Remarkable-Solid5582
原文
I'm so invested in this anime. The story is so well done and koyuki is very relatable. The times I end up crying when I am trying to apologize have been too many. I figured last week that she would end up apologizing since she's very empathetic. I'm glad it turned out well. I am not sure if Minato knows she's the person from the basketball team that was bullied during middle school. In his thoughts it seems he reacted based on her expressions. Seems like Minato already has a crush on koyuki, and who would blame him after seeing her blush and smile.
このアニメ、本当に没入してしまう。物語の構成が秀逸で、こゆきにすごく共感できるんだよな。謝ろうとした時に泣いちゃう場面、自分にも何度もある。先週の時点で、彼女が共感力高いから謝る展開になるだろうなとは予想してたけど、うまく収まって良かった。湊がこゆきを中学時代にいじめられていたバスケ部の人物だと認識しているかは微妙なところ。彼の思考を見る限り、表情から反応しているように思える。湊はもうこゆきに恋してるっぽいし、あの照れ笑いを見せられたら無理もないよな。考察くん
SirGigglesandLaughs
He knows because he mentioned that to Miki last episode. He called her out on it and she mentioned not wanting to hurt Koyuki again.
やば!それ前回のエピソードでミキに言ってたやつじゃん!「またコユキ傷つけたくない」ってミキが言ってたの、まじで胸熱なんだけど!ギャル
Kirosh2
It's funny how they also mention how Yota probably hasn't noticed, but noticed just at the same moment thanks to the basketball comment.
それなッ!「淀はたぶん気づいてないだろうな」って言ってるのに、バスケの一言で同時に気づくのウケるwww この流れエモすぎる!感情くん
Nedstark78
I think Minota is real during his last exchange with her where he is not all smiles and she wants him maybe to be honest and maybe not be trying to get along with her. The cookie art moments makes me think they are perfect for the other ones f they see there real selfs
ミノタが最後に彼女と話した時、あの笑顔じゃない態度がリアルだったと思う。彼女には本音で向き合ってほしいって思ってるのかもね。クッキーアートのシーンがあるから、お互い本当の自分を見せ合えたら完璧なカップルになれる気がするよ普通くん
Remarkable-Solid5582
ah thanks, you are right I went back to watch that part
あっマジやん、ワイその部分見直してきたわwww2ちゃん
CitronClassic672
This episode really won me over with Koyuki’s design, and she looks so cute when blushing and smiling!
やばくね!?今回の回、小雪のデザインまじで良すぎじゃない!?照れて笑ってる顔がめっちゃかわいいんだけど!!ギャル
FastenedCarrot
She looked very cute in the post credits scene as well
ポストクレジットシーンでの彼女もめっちゃ可愛かったね普通くん
Tricky-Ad7897
This has been one of the best vibe drama anime in a minute
めちゃくちゃエモいドラマアニメすぎるッ!最高の雰囲気だよ感情くん
JamesSomdet
It seems they’re just doing the easy way out with this one though. She should have to have lived at least a week with his ignoring her.
簡単に逃げてるだけだよね。少なくとも1週間は無視されて暮らすべきだったのに。普通くん
FabtheEmber
Well that didn't happen because she immediately recognized her being too harsh and apologized. She is a human. She can get overwhelmed and lash out at people. Makes her a better character imo when the story is about mistaken intentions and missed opportunity
彼女がすぐに言い過ぎたと気づいて謝ったから、ああはならなかったんだよな。彼女も人間だし、感情が高ぶって誰かに当たってしまうこともある。この作品が誤解や機会損失をテーマにしていることを踏まえると、そういう描写があるからこそ、彼女はより魅力的なキャラクターになっているという考察ができる。考察くん
SirGigglesandLaughs
Yeah, it's not like Minato reached out to her; she reached out herself. What could be the issue with that? It didn't take a week because she didn't let it. That's good on her part. Besides, her lash out was understandable, and she quickly regretted it. That was a messy situation for both of them. No villains there.
確かに、湊から連絡したわけじゃなくて、彼女の方から動いたんだよね。それの何が問題なんだろう。彼女が引きずらなかったから、1週間もかからなかったし。それは彼女の良いところだと思う。それに、感情的になったのもわかるし、すぐに後悔してたしね。あの状況はお互いに厄介だったよ。どっちが悪いって話でもない。普通くん
disrael2
原文
Was she too harsh? There really was no other way through to Minato who had already been warned repeatedly to stop being so overbearing. She's extremely self conscious so believes she acting harshly but the facts don't support that. The story is struggling to make no one the bad guy in this encounter but it's definitely Minato. Anyone trying to "unlock" another human being would have to be more sensitive than him to avoid the backlash. Even in Minato's head he explains to himself that he deserves instant friendship - people getting along with others better than him is some sort of crime.
彼女やりすぎだったか?でもミナトには何度も警告してたし、ああする以外道はなかったやろ。本人は自分が厳しすぎたと思い込んでるけど、事実は違うンゴ。話としては誰も悪者にしない展開にしようとしてるけど、ガチでミナトが悪いわ。他人を「解放」しようとするなら、あいつより繊細にならんと反発食らうに決まってる。ミナトの頭の中でも「自分は即座に友情を得るべき」とか言い訳してるし、他人が自分より上手くやるのが犯罪みたいに思ってるんか?草2ちゃん
FabtheEmber
原文
No the story is telling you they were both wrong. You are the one trying to make him the bad guy. He has been warned by whom Miki?? Like seriously he should listen to other people telling him not to talk to someone when he doesn't know what the person involved is thinking? Why are you coddling Koyun. She can say what she wants. But she never did. The first rebuttal from her ever is disgusting. She could say hey dont talk about Middle school or I hate talking about the past. Or hey Igarashi we don't get along. She lied and said they don't know each other. Igarashi also said they don't know each other.. So how is he gonna know Igarashi is a bad topic. Mind reading? Also no he never said he deserves instant friendship he said he hoped if they talked more they could be friends. Are you even hearing yourself. You are literally twisting every sentence to suit you
いや、物語は「両方とも間違ってる」って言ってるんだよ。お前が一方的に彼を悪者にしようとしてるだけ。彼が警告を受けたって、誰から?ミキから?は?相手の気持ちも知らずに「話しかけるな」って他人の言うこと聞く必要あるの?なんで小弓を甘やかすんだよ。彼女は言いたいこと言えただろ。「中学の話はやめて」とか「過去の話は嫌い」とか「五十嵐、俺たち仲悪いよ」って。なのに「他人です」って嘘ついたんだぞ。五十嵐も「知らない」って言ってる。じゃあどうやって五十嵐がタブーって知るんだよ?テレパシーか?それに「すぐ友達になれると思った」なんて一言も言ってない。「話せば友達になれるかも」って希望を言っただけ。お前、自分の言ってること分かってる?全部のセリフを都合よく捻じ曲げてるじゃん。普通くん
OctoSevenTwo
原文
Yeah that kind of stuff makes me dislike Minato as a character. He totally ignores boundaries and acts like the other person is at fault when they react badly. People who badger others like he was doing genuinely irritate me to the point where I either avoid them IRL or just intensely dislike them if they’re fictional like Minato is. Could Koyuki have done a better job enforcing her boundaries before getting to the point where she lashed out at him? Sure. Was she in the wrong for getting overwhelmed, though? No. Besides, Minato was already told (by Miki) that he should back off and that his sanctimonious bullshit is a bad habit of his. Just totally blew right by what she said to him. Honestly, I don’t understand people who think Minato was in the right here, or that Koyuki deserves to be punished for what she said to him. Yes, Koyuki’s social circle is really small, but she’s not the one who has issues with that, is she? Minato was trying to “help” someone who neither needed nor asked for his help. It reeks of sanctimony and self-righteousness. I really didn’t like how Koyuki ended up being depicted as being in the wrong for not giving Minato a fair chance and not getting to know him before rejecting him….when he also didn’t really try to understand her either. I don’t even want to say he made assumptions about her because that would imply he was actually thinking about her rather than just foisting his ideas of normalcy and what people should want onto her when she seemed to be doing just fine. I’d say that’s worse than just shutting someone out. I feel like it vindicates Minato’s bullshit to a degree and it really shouldn’t be vindicated. Idk, we’re just about halfway through the season and I heavily dislike Minato, which is making any developing feelings between him and Koyuki feel awkward at best for me. Like “oh, he spent the first half of the season making her extremely uncomfortable by forcing his ideals onto her and now she feels bad for rejecting him and they’re now forming a connection from there.” I dearly hope they don’t continue like that because that would be extremely disappointing imo.
ミナトのあのキャラほんま無理やわ。自分の都合押し付けて相手がキレたら「悪いのはお前」みたいなスタンスやん。リアルでおったら確実に避けるレベル。小雪がもっと早く線引けばよかったのはそうやけど、追い詰められたこと自体は悪くないやろ。しかもミキから「引け」って言われてたのに完全スルーしとるやん。ワイはミナト擁護するやつの気が知れんわ。「助ける」って名目で誰も頼んでないこと押し付けるの、ただの自己満足やろ。しかも小雪が悪者扱いされてるのキツいわ。ミナトも小雪のこと全然理解しようとしてないしな。折り返し地点で既にミナトが嫌いすぎて、この先恋愛展開とか言われても「は?」って感じや。このまま続いたらマジでガッカリやで。2ちゃん
Zeallfnonex
原文
The episode pretty much spelled it out from his own point of view: he acted towards her as he thinks he would like someone to act towards him. It did not occur to him that this is not advisable for all people. He was not malicious, but he was immature in that he did not yet know that his golden retriever personality can be overbearing to more reserved personalities, even unintentionally. He acknowledges that later on in the episode. Koyuki is also shown as being immature and a tad hypocritical in that she judged a situation without having full knowledge of what was going on first. This is the type of behavior she loathed in her bullies: Minato is more or less irrelevant to this, but the very act of judging a person prematurely is something she can't accept in herself. Neither person acted maliciously. Both acted immaturely, and both recognized their own immature actions. Yes, Minato overstepped, but also yes, Koyuki acted incorrectly based on her own principles. Both can be true without any contradictions.
このエピソードで彼の視点がはっきり描かれてたね:自分がされて嬉しいことを彼女にやってただけ。でもそれが全員に通用するわけじゃないって気づいてなかったんだ。悪意はなかったけど、自分のゴールデンレトリバーみたいな性格が控えめな人には重くなりがちだと理解してなかった。後に本人も認めてたし。小雪の方も未熟でちょっと偽善的だったよね、事情も知らずに判断しちゃったから。いじめっ子たちを嫌ってたはずの行動を自分がやっちゃったってわけ。湊はあんまり関係ないけど、早とちりで人を判断するって自分が許せないはずのことだし。どっちにも悪意はなくて、お互い未熟だっただけ。そして二人とも自分の未熟さに気づいた。湊のやりすぎも事実だし、小雪の間違いも事実。両方正しいって矛盾なく成り立つと思う。普通くん
some_jackass_i_know
原文
He means well though. He is trying to find a way to relate to her, and he made a mistake by prodding into something that, at the end of the day, really wasn't any of his business, but he wasn't doing it for any malicious reason. He really was just trying to find something to talk about that would get her to open up. I think the implication is that if you are approaching someone who is completely averse to human contact, as she obviously is, prying into her personal life is an incredibly incorrect and offensive way of trying to get to know her, but it doesn't make him a bad person. It's more like a faux pas on his part. He knows he offended her and he won't make the same mistake again, though.
確かに彼に悪意はないんだよな。彼は彼女との接点を探そうとしているんだ。結果的には踏み込むべきでない領域に触れてしまったが、それは悪意からではない。彼女が心を開くきっかけを探していたんだと思う。ここから考察できるのは、明らかに人間との接触を拒絶する相手に対して、プライベートに踏み込むのは極めて不適切で失礼なアプローチだということだ。しかし、それだけで彼を悪人と断じるのは早計だ。むしろ彼のソーシャルスキル上のミスと捉えるべきで、彼自身も相手を怒らせたことを理解し、同じ過ちは繰り返さないだろうという伏線とも読める。考察くん
disrael2
原文
In most Japanese anime it is almost automatic that one someone apologizes you instantly apologize back. Minato does mention that he was the one troubling her but it's not an apology and in his head he simultaneously even walks that back. The show already established that Minato has a lot of trouble dating girls. He showed a tiny bit of progress by concluding he should just not interact with Koyuki further, but he is a long way from initiating an apology and can't even properly reciprocate one. The forcing his ideals onto her is a good point. His ideal seems to be breadth of relationships. He believes that morally everyone should have a relationship with everyone else. I think his trouble with dating stems from this - his girlfriend doesn't feel special cause she's not.
日本のアニメだと誰かが謝ったら自動的に謝り返すのがデフォやん。湊は「こっちこそ迷惑かけた」って言うけど謝罪じゃないし、頭の中ではすぐにそれを取り消してる。作中で湊が彼女作るのに苦労してるのはもう描かれてるよな。小雪と関わらない方がいいって結論出したのは少し進歩だけど、謝罪できるレベルには程遠いし、謝り返すことすらまともにできてない。自分の理想を押し付けてるってのはガチでその通り。彼の理想は人間関係の広さやろ。「誰もが全員と関係を持つべき」って道徳的に信じてる。彼女作るのが下手なのもこれが原因やと思うわ——彼女が特別に感じられないんだよ、だって特別じゃないからな。2ちゃん
IlGioCR
God forbid two anime characters actually resolve a misunderstanding on the same episode instead of dragging it for half a season. All the slop has ruined your expectations.
マジでさ、アニメキャラが誤解を半シーズンも引きずらずに同じエピソードで解決するなんてありえないみたいな風潮やめてくれよ。クソアニメばっか見すぎて期待値下がりすぎだわ。普通くん
riiyoreo
I'm so glad that: 1. Amamiya wasn't painted as the villain 2. The anime showed, in clear words, that Koyuki was treating someone the way she never wants to be treated - even if its because of past experiences. 3. They're teenagers trying to sift through feelings but they're both coming from a place of good intent. Great epi and great cameo!
1. 雨宮が悪役として描かれなかったのが本当に良かった
2. アニメは小雪が「自分がされたくないことを他人にしている」と明確に示してくれた。過去の経験が理由だとしてもね
3. 両者とも思春期の感情整理に苦しんでいるけど、根っこには善意があるんだよな
伏線の回収とキャラの内面描写が秀逸だった。カメオ出演も含めて、制作陣の意図がしっかり伝わる素晴らしい回だったと思う。考察くん
ToTheNintieth
I'm a fan of Minato. His internal monologue this episode did a great job of conveying why his seemingly shifty or manipulative behavior had no actual ill intent, even if the outcome was negative, and also reinforcing how Koyuki herself was being unfair in an undeserved way.
湊のファンなんだけど、今回のエピソードでの彼の内面モノローグは良かったな。あの一見ずる賢い行動にも悪意がなかったって伝わってきたし、結果が悪かったとしてもね。それに小雪自身が理不尽に不公平だったってのも改めて強調されてた。普通くん
phoenixking99999999
原文
I genuinely didn't view it as shitty just a tad bit manipulative, in the sense he was trying everything he knew worked when trying to get to know people, koyun is just an anomaly in this case because basically everything he does only seems to make the situation worse, he initially has no clue that her middle school life was horrible when for people atp in their lives it'd normally be a great convo starter and despite being able to read people he has a hard time reading koyun. Granted maybe I'm headcannoning and just forcing my perception of him because he's my favorite character
ワイは別にクソやとは思わへんかったで。ちょいと計算高いって感じやな。自分が知ってる「人と仲良くなる方法」を全部試してただけやろ。でもコユンは例外やったんやな。やることなすこと全部裏目に出るって感じで。最初は彼女の中学生活がクソだったなんて知らんかったし、普通なら鉄板の話題やのに。人のこと読めるくせにコユンだけは読めへんかったんや。まあワイの解釈違いかもしれんけど、コユンが一番好きやからそう見てまうンゴwww2ちゃん
FastenedCarrot
This episode has recontexualised him as someone who struggles himself but has figured out a way to kind of automate the process so he doesn't get stuck for words. I find that very interesting, the automation broke down with Koyun and now he's a bit more his genuine self
このエピソードで彼の描写が再文脈化されたな。つまり、彼自身も苦悩しながらも、言葉に詰まらないようプロセスを自動化する術を身につけた人物だった、という考察ができる。自動化がコユンとの関係で崩れたことで、今はより素の自分を見せている点が非常に興味深い。制作陣の意図が感じられる構成だ。考察くん
Jacob-C
原文
Right? All the people who were saying that Minato was 100% at fault and Koyuki was 100% justified last episode more or less vanished lol. It was two people struggling to communicate with each other. Minato crossed Koyuki’s boundaries and realized it too late. Meanwhile, Koyuki expected Minato to know about said boundaries without ever opening up, and treated him way too harshly in response. They both have preconceived, although differing, notions about how others want to be treated and how they themselves should treat those around them. The latter part of the episode showed the beginning of them breaking down each other’s walls, or ramparts, if you will. It was honestly so damn cute!
だよね。前回「湊が100%悪い」「小雪は完全に正しい」って言ってた人たち、いつの間にか消えたな笑。あれはお互いがうまく意思疎通できなかっただけだと思う。湊は小雪の境界線を越えちゃったけど、気づくのが遅かった。一方で小雪は、自分から心を開かずに湊がそれを察するのを期待して、しかも結構厳しく対応しすぎた。お互いに「相手にどう接してほしいか」「自分はどう接するべきか」っていう前提がズレてたんだよね。後半はお互いの壁を崩し始めた感じで、めちゃくちゃ可愛かったわ!普通くん
Anon23221
He was to blame because he does not have to interfere in matters that do not concern him. I really hate that they got along because it would have made the story much better
マジでありえないんだけど!?自分の関係ないことに首突っ込むから悪いんだって!あの二人が仲良くなる展開、まじでムカつくわ〜別々のままで話進んだ方が絶対面白かったのに!ギャル
wutfacer
原文
Lol "interfere". He reached out to get to know someone who seemed lonely (who he found out is mutual friends with his friends) and asked a few basic questions like what her hobbies are and if she knew a kid he knows who went to her old school, which she never said she didn't want to talk about. Sounds like redditors are just loners who never want to talk to or meet new people and expect everyone to read this minds but assume the worst intentions of others 😂
「干渉」って笑っちゃうよな。彼はただ孤独そうな人(友達の友達だと分かった)に話しかけて、趣味とか、彼女の元いた学校に通ってる知り合いの子を知ってるかとか、普通の質問をしただけじゃん。彼女が「話したくない」とも言ってないし。Reddit民って、ただの孤独で新しい人と話したくない連中で、他人に最悪の意図を勝手に想像してるだけだと思うわ😂普通くん
TheGrimReap3r151
Ongod bro these guys on these discussions have never had a social interaction before it seems
まじでこのスレのやつら、リアルで人と話したことないんじゃね?笑ギャル
FastenedCarrot
I find it funny that lots of people here had a negative snap judgement of him too
ここでも多くの人が最初に彼に対してネガティブな印象を持ってたのが面白いな普通くん
HolyDragSwd2500
Polor Opposite cameo And the crossover cameo is complete
ポーラーオッポジットのカメオ! これでクロスオーバーカメオ完璧すぎるッ!感情くん
CooroSnowFox
This came out before so they probably had to find a good place to do the cameo.
前に出てたし、カメオ出演のいい場所を見つけるのに苦労したんだろうね。普通くん
ZaphodBeebblebrox
原文
Sorry, your comment has been removed. This belongs in the Source Material Corner at the top of this thread. In discussion threads for currently airing anime, discussions about source material, spin-offs, author comments and unadapted content must be posted there. Any comparison to the source material no matter how minor belongs there. Your comment was NOT removed for spoilers; it was removed for discussion of the source material outside of the Source Material Corner . Questions? Reply to this message, send a modmail , or leave a comment in the meta thread . Don't know the rules? Read them here .
申し訳ありませんが、あなたのコメントは削除されました。これはこのスレッド上部の「原作情報コーナー」に属する内容です。現在放送中のアニメの議論スレッドでは、原作・スピンオフ・作者コメント・未アニメ化内容に関する議論はすべてそこに投稿してください。原作との比較はどんなに些細なものでも該当します。あなたのコメントはネタバレではなく、原作情報コーナー外での原作議論として削除されました。ご質問はこのメッセージへの返信、modmail、またはメタスレッドへ。ルールはこちらで確認できます。考察くん
ZaphodBeebblebrox
Any comparison between the anime and source material, which includes saying whether a scene is anime original or not, must be in the Source Material Corner.
やばっ!アニメと原作の比較とか、アニオリかどうかの話は全部「原作コーナー」に書けってルールあるじゃん!ちゃんと守ろうね〜!ギャル
Offline219
I should really check out that show sometime. I've been really loving this one so far.
今度その作品もちゃんと見てみようかな。今のところこれめっちゃ好きだわ。普通くん
VancityGaming
Right now is a sometime!
今ってまじでアツいタイミングじゃん!ギャル
juicy_jonny
Not too late to binge first season and catch up before they air the second season right after this one. It’s a LOT less drama and more lighthearted compared to this one though
今から1期を一気見して、2期放送前に追いつくの全然間に合うやん。ただ今期よりドラマ少なめでライトな感じやけどな2ちゃん
luminous_popsicle
原文
I like that the feelings Minato is developing have a real reason and feel deserved. If you look at his past, he seems to really be a people pleaser, trying his best to seek validation by getting people to rely on him, all based on assumptions and pity of course, not by actually caring about that person. Even his previous girlfriend broke up with him because of this. What's different with the main gang, that is, miki and youta, is that they also seem to push back onto him and recognise parts of him that he doesn't. Basically, while he never fully shows his true thoughts and personality, these two seem to see it anyways. Even when miki confronts him earlier, he realises his approach to making friends isn't the best. Now that Koyun has broken his perception of her, by running up to him and apologising, she has essentially given him a chance even though he didn't get her initial validation. She laughs and smiles when he hasn't put up an act to make her his friend. In fact, she shows parts of herself to him, only when he starts to ignore her completly, which is basically him dropping the act. I also really like the way this episode dissects the different feelings and steps that go into real communication. Even after the apology, it's not like everything will go back to normal immediately, there's a lingering awkwardness. It's really well done. Its really interesting how these two seem to be really different but are actually quite similar in how they judge people and keep them at arms length. And they are aware that the other does this, so being let in by Koyun and also seen quite authentically without an act, of course makes Minato more than flustered. Tldr: these two are looking to be a really well though out couple with such a smart dynamic.
湊が抱く感情にちゃんと理由があって、それに見合ったものだと感じられるのが良い。彼の過去を振り返ると、本当に人に好かれようと必死で、誰かに頼られることで承認を得ようとしているんだな。でもそれは相手を本当に気遣っているわけじゃなく、思い込みや哀れみに基づいた行動で、前の彼女もそのせいで別れたんだろう。ところが美希と陽太というメインの仲間たちは違う。彼らは湊に反発しつつも、彼自身が気づいていない部分を認識している。つまり、湊が本当の考えや性格を完全に見せなくても、この二人はそれを察しているんだ。美希が以前に彼を問い詰めた時も、湊は自分の友達作りのアプローチが最善じゃないと気づいた。今回、小雲が彼の元に走って謝罪することで、湊の彼女に対する認識が崩れた。彼女は最初の承認を与えなかったけど、チャンスをくれたんだ。湊が取り繕わずに彼女と友達になろうとしなかった時、小雲は笑顔を見せた。実際、湊が完全に無視し始めた時、つまり彼が仮面を外した時に初めて、小雲は自分の一部を見せている。このエピソードが本当のコミュニケーションに伴う感情やステップを丁寧に描いているのも素晴らしい。謝罪の後もすぐに元通りになるわけじゃなく、気まずさが残る。そのリアリティがよくできている。この二人はすごく違うように見えて、実は人を判断して距離を置く点では似ているんだよな。そしてお互いがそれを考察くん
FabtheEmber
Exactly, in the dynamic Koyuki will have to put down her walls and interact with him without assuming things from the past. Minato knowing all his previous acts have failed will need to communicate in a more authentic way. And that gain and special interaction can make them grow closer!! Can't wait
せやな、氷の城壁で小雪が壁を崩して過去の決めつけせずに湊と接するって流れはガチで熱いわ。湊も今までの行動が全部失敗って自覚してるから、もっと本音で話すしかないやん。その積み重ねと特別な絡みで距離縮まる展開、ワクワクが止まらんンゴwww2ちゃん
ClemFire
原文
I really liked the POV switch to Minato this episode and it reveals while he is afraid to be forgotten and Koyun is afraid to be remembered they both put up their own walls and assumptions of other people compared to Miki and Yota who are more flexible and secure. I like the slow burn a lot and it's a great choice to have Koyun be the one to take action to break down Minato's walls. Minato may have a lot of connections compared to Koyun but they always feel like an arm's width away and I wonder if this is me projecting but I wonder if he talks so much to direct the flow of conversation because he's afraid of it going in a direction that makes him uncomfortable
今回のエピソードで湊視点になったのめっちゃ良かったな。湊は忘れられるのを怖がってて、小鳩は覚えられるのを怖がってるってのがわかる。お互いに壁を作って相手を決めつけてるけど、ミキとヨタはもっと柔軟で安心感があるんだよね。じわじわ進む展開が好きだし、小鳩が湊の壁を壊そうと動くのは良い選択だと思う。湊は小鳩より繋がりが多いように見えても、いつも距離感があるんだよな。もしかしたら俺の投影かもしれないけど、彼が会話を自分でコントロールしようとあれだけ喋るのは、気まずい方向に行くのを恐れてるからじゃないかな。普通くん
xdxdlol0434
Over the past few weeks, we are to see things mostly through Koyuki, and it was only natural to assume negatively about Minato if not maliciously. It was a classic bait and switch - but we only get to know if we listen, much like Koyuki did. She had her reasons, but it does make me reflect if I have ever done the same.
ここ数週間、主に小雪の視点で描かれていたから、湊に対して悪意がなくても否定的に捉えるのは自然な流れだったんだよな。典型的なベイト&スイッチ手法だ——でも、小雪がしたように耳を傾けて初めて真実が分かる構造になってる。彼女には彼女なりの理由があったわけだが、自分も同じようなことをしたことがあるか振り返らされるな。考察くん
Frontier246
I loved getting to hear his thoughts in real time as he realized how much he was screwing up second-by-second in that conversation with Koyuki last episode. His intentions were good! His delivery was just not very effective.
前回の小雪との会話で、自分のミスを一秒ごとに自覚していく様子がリアルタイムで聞けて良かったよ。意図は良かったんだけどな!伝え方がちょっと下手だっただけだね。普通くん
Zemahem
Probably should've been more cautious about bringing it up, but that was rough for him as well. He tripped and tried catching himself but just landed on even more landmines.
草、マジで踏み抜きすぎやろ。自分で気をつけろって話やけど、あいつもキツかったンゴwww 転んで立て直そうとしたら、さらに地雷踏みまくっててワロタ2ちゃん
Zeallfnonex
I've had similar sinking feelings: meeting up with a friend, asking lightheartedly how his relationship's going, only to find that I missed a memo and they'd broken up, like, 3 days ago. Eyes widen, heart sinks, and panic as I try to figure out a way out of the mess I made. Not fun, been there, done that.
この状況、すごくわかる。友人と会って軽い気持ちで「彼女とはどう?」って聞いたら、実は3日前に別れたばかりで、自分だけその情報を知らされてなかった、みたいな。目が泳いで心臓がドキドキして、どうやってこの空気を修復しようかとパニックになるんだよな。制作陣はこういう日常の"空気の読めない瞬間"を、キャラクターの心情描写に上手く落とし込んでると思う。伏線的に言うと、こういう些細な違和感が後の展開で効いてくる可能性がある。考察くん
zak55
Dude's like, Surely I can't choose every wrong dialogue option...right....RIGHT?!!
奴、「まさか全部の選択肢ハズレってことはないよな…だよな…だよな!?」って感じだね(笑)普通くん
Joseki100
Dude failed all the quick time event checks.
草ァ!
コイツQTE全部失敗しててワロタwww2ちゃん
JamesSomdet
原文
I guess that’s the major problem for me. I don’t get biased to the perspective of an MC and never have. I try to evaluate the events of a story objectively, and it’s always seemed to me that MC is, to put it nicely, a jerk, and she has at least done much worse than Minato ever did. He puts in the effort to befriend her. All she does is ignore him, make him feel left out with his own friends, and then ultimately call him disgusting. And then some apology is supposed to solve all that. His fault is, I guess, trying to befriend her in the first place? I don’t know. Maybe he shouldn’t have tried to get to know her more by asking about her middle school. It would’ve been much better if they went with MC having to live with the bed she made and actually have to be the one to earn his friendship now if she wanted it, but I guess they’re going to say this is all solved with some little apology.
俺にとってはそれが大きな問題かな。主人公の視点に偏ることなく、客観的に物語を評価しようとしてるんだけど、正直言って主人公はかなり嫌な奴だと思う。少なくともミナトよりずっと酷いことをしてる。ミナトは彼女と仲良くなろうと努力してるのに、彼女は無視して、友達の前で彼を孤立させて、最終的に「気持ち悪い」って言ったんだ。それでちょっと謝れば全部解決ってのは無理があるよ。ミナトの落ち度って、最初から彼女と仲良くなろうとしたことなのか?彼女に中学のことを聞いたのが間違いだったのかもしれない。むしろ、主人公が自分で作った状況に責任を持って、彼女の方からミナトの友情を得るために努力する展開の方が良かったと思うけど、まあ謝れば解決ってことで済ませるんだろうな。普通くん
pasttimeghost
For someone so objective, you're missing how in the scenes after, Koyuki hasn't stopped at just a "little" apology, she's already making an effort to be more honest and explain her feelings to Minato.
客観的なやつほど気づかんのやな。後のシーンで小雪が「ちょっと謝った」だけじゃ済ましてへんやん。もうミナトに正直になろうと気持ち伝えようとしてるやんか。ワイはそれだけで評価上げたわ。2ちゃん
SirGigglesandLaughs
Exactly. She even explained her situation with Igarashi, which is something she didn't do before when she assumed Minato wouldn't understand. I mean, they're cutely giggling together; they're way more relaxed together because she's let her guard down. She even started their conversation at the end there. She's been very proactive. They both were, in their own ways.
確かに。彼女が五十嵐との関係を説明したのも、以前は湊に理解してもらえないと思って話さなかったことを思えば大きな変化だ。二人で一緒にクスクス笑ってるシーン、明らかに彼女が警戒を解いてリラックスしてるのがわかる。最後の会話も彼女から始めてるし、非常に能動的だ。両者それぞれのやり方で、関係性が深化しているという考察ができる。考察くん
JamesSomdet
原文
I should preface this by saying that I stopped watching ten minutes in, because I was too disgusted with having to watch her redemption arc when she only had to live with the consequences of her words for like six, seven hours. However, from what you’re describing, I think that’s great. Because of Minato. His capacity for forgiveness is admirable. I’m just saying I wouldn’t have forgiven her so quickly, and, frankly, neither would most people. You know how most people are. We’d be saying she had crocodile tears if it happened to us in real life!
まず言っておくけど、俺は10分で見るのやめたんだ。彼女が自分の言葉の代償をたった6、7時間しか背負ってないのに贖罪のストーリーを見せられるのが嫌でさ。でも君の説明聞く限り、それはいいと思うよ。ミナトのおかげでね。彼の許す力は立派だ。ただ俺ならあんなに早く許せなかったし、正直ほとんどの人もそうだと思う。実際に自分に起きたら「嘘泣きだ」って言うのが普通じゃん?普通くん
Huppelkutje
I should preface this by saying that I stopped watching ten minutes Maybe don't comment on a piece of media if you haven't even finished it?
ちょっと待って!まず言わせて、10分で観るのやめたって言ってるけど、最後まで観てないのにコメントするのやばくね!?ギャル
JamesSomdet
So if a movie critic sees a movie that is so bad that he walks out during the middle of it, he shouldn’t comment on it afterwards and say that it’s bad? I know we’re trying to excuse all of MC’s behavior because she was bullied, and we all know that being bullied always justified lashing out at people being nice to you under anime logic, but still.
映画評論家が途中で席を立つほどつまらない映画を見た後で「これ酷い」って言っちゃいけないのか?主人公の行動をいじめられてたからって全部許そうとしてるのは分かるよ。アニメの理屈では、親切にしてくれる人に八つ当たりするのもいじめられてれば正当化されるってやつね。でもさ、さすがにそれは違うと思うけどな。普通くん
pasttimeghost
I don't justify Koyuki's actions, and in the episode itself, it calls out how wrong she was in doing that by Minato himself. It just sounds like you're upset with how Minato decided to handle the situation, because you're projecting yourself in his shoes, and you're personally disappointed that Koyuki isn't grovelling for your forgiveness or something.
この小雪の行動を正当化するつもりはないし、当該エピソード内でも湊自身が彼女の過ちを明確に指摘している。ただ、君の不満は湊の対応の仕方にあるように思える。自分を湊に投影して、「なぜ小雪が土下座して謝らないんだ」と個人的に失望しているだけじゃないか?という考察ができる。考察くん
JamesSomdet
[ Removed by Reddit ]
(このコメントはRedditによって削除されました)普通くん
Huppelkutje
If a movie critic complained about a plot point that was resolved in the part of the movie they didn't watch I'd say that they are a complete moron with a worthless and uninformed opinion.
え、まじで言ってる?笑 映画の最後まで観てないくせにプロットに文句言うとか、その評論家バカすぎじゃね?笑 そんな無知な意見なんて価値ゼロだわ〜ギャル
Mustafa_pro
I mean, if a girl said some harsh words to me but later came to me running to stop me while apologising in tears to the point she can't even get the words out I can't stay mad at her even if she made me upset back then
確かに、女の子にきついこと言われても、後から涙で言葉にならないくらい謝りながら走って止めに来られたら、その時はムカついてても怒れなくなるよね普通くん
JamesSomdet
原文
I mean . . . yeah I’ll give you that. I haven’t really been considering the romantic side of this all admittedly. Minato clearly likes her. She likes him too, even though all her fans are acting like she doesn’t. If we weren’t into each other, I would never forgive someone for that literally the day of the incident before the other person actually has to live with the consequences. If it’s someone I love though, okay, maybe I could have done what Minato did
確かにその通りだな。俺も正直、この物語の恋愛要素を軽視してたかもしれない。湊が彼女に好意を持っているのは明白で、ファンたちが否定したがってるけど彼女も同じ気持ちだと思うんだよ。もしお互いに恋愛感情がなかったら、事故の前日にあんな行動を取った相手を絶対に許せない。でも愛する相手なら…湊が取った行動も理解できるという考察ができる。考察くん
OctoSevenTwo
原文
I love how you call yourself “unbiased” and yet your reply practically has a neon sign with flashing lights around it saying “I AM VERY BIASED” in all caps. He was trying to befriend her, sure— but the whole approach was wrong and his mindset was as well. Miki even pointed it out to him when they talked at the vending machines. He can be very arrogant and sanctimonious and pities people just because they don’t fit into his ideal of what social interaction should be like. Maybe some people just prefer being alone but no, he has to meddle and “”””””””””””””””””help””””””””””””””””””””” them like they’re somehow incapable of doing it themselves if they really wanted. Also, the funny thing is, she was warming up to him. He’s the one who kept mentioning middle school, Igarashi, etc etc. Granted, she could have explained she was uncomfortable, but he seemed capable of noticing her reactions. If that’s true, what kind of inconsiderate or at best dense person just plows ahead in that situation? That was far from the first time he’d stepped on a landmine with her. If he actually wanted to befriend her, doesn’t that also mean taking her feelings into account?
自分を「公平」って言ってるのに、返信に「めっちゃ偏ってます」ってネオンサインが光ってるみたいだよ。確かに彼は彼女と友達になろうとしてた。でもアプローチも考え方も間違ってた。ミキも自販機のとこで指摘してたじゃん。彼は結構傲慢で独善的で、自分の理想の社交像に合わない人を見ると哀れんでるだけ。一人が好きな人もいるのに、勝手に“助けて”やろうとするの、まるで自分でできないみたいにさ。
面白いのは、彼女は実は彼に心開きかけてたんだよね。なのに彼がしつこく中学の話とか五十嵐とか出してた。彼女が不快って言えばよかったけど、彼も彼女の反応に気づけるはず。それで気づいてるのにズンズン進むって、無神経か鈍感すぎるだろ。あれが初めての地雷じゃなかったし。本当に友達になりたいなら、彼女の気持ちも考えるべきじゃない?普通くん
Huppelkutje
I try to evaluate the events of a story objectively Didn't you stop watching the episode halfway through?
いやいや、ちゃんと最後まで見たよ!でも客観的に見ようとする気持ちはわかる。でもこのアニメ、感情が溢れすぎて冷静になれないんだよな…ッ!感情くん
a_Bear_from_Bearcave
No, his fault was being constantly pushy and overbearing to someone he just met and forced himself into meeting again, when she clearly was uncomfortable with him. You don't get to force your way into friendship with someone, just like you don't get to keep hitting on a girl that clearly isn't interested.
いや、彼の悪いところは初対面で明らかに相手が嫌がってるのにグイグイ押し付けて無理やり会おうとしたところだよ。相手が興味ないのにしつこくアプローチし続けるのと同じで、無理やり友情を築こうとするもんじゃない。普通くん
Ok-Cod5254
Yota is best boy for being a bridge to mend things with Minato and Koyuki. Right now he's been a good supporting type of character and he brings a lot of good vibes. Hope to learn more about him sometime as an individual too.
陽太はミナトと小雪の橋渡し役として最高の男やな。今のところ良いサポートキャラしてて、雰囲気めっちゃ良くしてるわ。いつか彼個人のことももっと知りたいンゴね。2ちゃん
Frontier246
Miki doesn't have anyone she likes right now while Yota has indicated he likes her so I feel like that might develop as a plot for him.
まじでミキ今好きな人いないのにヨタはミキのこと好きって示してるじゃん?この先ヨタの恋愛要素として展開してくんじゃね!?やばくねそれ!ギャル
Ok-Cod5254
Yep, there's that side ship potential, though also interested if he also has a hidden side as well by getting his own POV, assuming he would to some extent like all others in the main cast group.
せやな、そっちのサイドカップルの可能性もあるわな。でもワイはあいつにも隠された一面があるか気になるンゴ。他のメインキャスト同様、ある程度は自分の視点で描かれるんやろか。2ちゃん
Tanyan-nightchord
True actually. So far we haven't learned about his internal conflicts. He seems to always be there to support everyone but at what cost. (Or maybe he is just very healthy and helpful lol)
それな!今のところ彼の内面的な葛藤とか全然描かれてないよね。いつもみんなを支えてるけど、代償は何なんだろうね笑(まあ単に超健康的で助けマンって可能性もあるけど笑)ギャル
FabtheEmber
原文
Ok firstly there are bangers of line drops Minato said in this episode which I love. He accepts that he is arrogant for assuming she needs his help and would want to be friends eventually. But also says Koyuki is arrogant as well for judging people and grouping them. Something that Koyuki herself recognized. Another line I loved a lot is Minato saying 'We know we shouldn't do unto others what we wouldn't do to ourselves" But the reverse is not always true?? That is such an interesting theme to bring up. Especially since Minato thrives in helping others open up. Maybe he wants someone to approach him similarly?? Everyone acts based on what they think is right or wrong but doing good for others is extremely complicated if two people have different definitions of what is considered good. I guess Minato now realizes he needs to focus on the other person's needs before judging good?? Also I like that Hikawa apologized. Not because she was at fault. We all believed her ice walls would slowly melt because of some other person's warmth and encourage. Hence everyone wanted it to be Yota as she is comfy with him . But No! She brought down her own ice walls because she didn't want to hurt someone else. In a roundabout way, Minato is helping her but the results come from her own decisions not just her subconsciousness. That makes for a much better character journey rather than one where the bullies person passively accepts the warmth given to them and slowly heals. It is about her consciously taking the decision to open up. Like last episode and this one Hikawa is proving she is more than someone who needs to be healed or protected. Love a conscious character journey rather than a passive one. We can see more of that as Minato might keep challenging her perception of people she thought outside her comfort zone..
まず、湊のセリフが神すぎる。彼は自分の傲慢さを認めてるんだよね。「彼女に助けが必要だ」って決めつけてたこと。でも小雪も他人を勝手に判断してグループ分けしてるって指摘する。小雪自身もそれに気づいてた。もう一つ好きなセリフは「自分がされたくないことは他人にするな」ってやつ。でも逆は必ずしも真じゃないってテーマ、めっちゃ面白い。特に湊は他人を開かせるのが得意だから、誰かに同じように近づいて欲しいのかも?みんな自分の正義で動くけど、他人にとっての善は複雑だよな。湊は他人のニーズを優先する必要があるって気づいたのかも。あと氷川が謝ったのも良かった。彼女が悪いわけじゃないのに。みんな誰かの温かさで氷の壁が溶けると思ってた。だから陽太が適任だと思われてた。でも違う!彼女は自分で壁を壊したんだ、他人を傷つけたくないから。間接的に湊は助けてるけど、結果は彼女自身の決断なんだよ。受け身で癒されるより、主体的なキャラ成長の方が好きだわ。彼女は守られるだけの存在じゃないって証明してる。湊がこれからも彼女の固定観念に挑戦していくのが楽しみ。普通くん
SirGigglesandLaughs
原文
I agree: having Koyuki take action is a really important decision. Both of them actually thought through things and made decisions this episode. Minato planned to give her space, and she planned to apologize. It's really nice seeing characters think through issues (even with help), then come to their own decisions without being forced by plot or a third party. Neither of them had to do what they did. Good character moments that tell us a lot about them.
せやな、小雪が自ら動くっつうのはめっちゃ大事な決断やったわ。今回、二人ともちゃんと考えて行動してたやん。湊は距離置こうとしたし、小雪は謝ろうとした。キャラが(助けられながらも)自分で考えて、無理矢理じゃなく自発的に決断するの、めっちゃ良いわ。どっちもやらされ感なかったしな。キャラの深みが伝わる良いシーンやったわ。2ちゃん
FabtheEmber
Yep it makes their subsequent relationship and friendship more rewarding and beautiful because they are each getting something from one another and they are so unlike in most ways but surprisingly similarly flawed.. Chefs kiss !!
確かに。この二人の関係性と友情がより価値ある美しいものに見えるのは、互いに相手から何かを得ているからだよな。多くの点で正反対なのに、意外なほど似た欠点を持っているという構造が絶妙だ。まさに職人技の演出だな。考察くん
FarCritical
Can't help but smile at how quickly "you disgust me" became "cute" after a bit of talking. The picture Koyuki's flashbacks painted of Igarashi can't get that much prettier even after hearing his side but wow, I wasn't ready for that bombshell. Not to mention how the theme of the episode's got me feeling called out for preemptively antagonizing the guy.
思わず笑っちゃったな。「気持ち悪い」から「可愛い」に変わるスピードが早すぎる。小雪の回想で描かれた五十嵐像は彼の話聞いても美化されきれなかったけど、あの爆弾発言にはマジでやられたわ。それに今回のテーマ、先に敵視してた自分が痛いほど刺さる。普通くん
SirGigglesandLaughs
She really went full "Kaguya" with that "how cute," but it had the opposite effect compared to Kaguya's series.
やばくない!?あの「かわいい」発言、完全に『かぐや』モード入ってたじゃん!でも本家とは逆効果になってて草なんだけど笑ギャル
NanDemoKnaives
原文
I like how this conflict between Koyuki and Minato got resolved pretty quickly, fortunately for the both of them Youta overheard and followed up. Otherwise, I think their connection would have ended because of this incident. I do like how Koyuki opening up to Minato has actually gotten him to develop a crush on her, he's got his work cut out for him since Koyuki still didn't include him to visit Miki's workplace over the winter break lol. The post-credit scene makes me hopeful we might see some backstory of Koyuki and Igarashi's relationship, I wonder how Miki's involved. I can only think that she might have pushed the two to get together and she feels responsible maybe? Talking about the post-credit scene, Suzuki and her two friends from the You and I Are Opposites! I was not expecting that cameo, my shock was audible lol.
こゆきと湊の対立がすぐ解決したのは良かったね。陽太がたまたま聞いてフォローしたから良かったものの、あのままだと関係終わってたかも。こゆきが打ち明けたことで湊が彼女に恋心を抱き始めたのは面白いけど、冬休みにミキの職場に誘ってもらえなかったから、まだまだ努力が必要そうだなw
- ポストクレジットシーンでこゆきと五十嵐の関係の過去が描かれそうで期待。ミキが関わってるんだろうな。多分、彼女が二人をくっつけようとして、責任感じてるのかも?
- 同じシーンに出てきた鈴木と友達は「正反対の君と僕」のカメオか!思わず声出たわw普通くん
SirGigglesandLaughs
I think that was Miki saying she'll invite Yota at the end there but I could be forgetting. Edit: Nope I'm wrong, it was Koyun. To be fair to her I would also not have invited Minato yet. I'd be too self conscious and would wonder if we're close enough for that yet (especially after just reconciling). She's the type to worry about that.
最後のシーン、ミキが陽太を誘うって言ってたんだと思ったけど、記憶違いかも。訂正:違う、小絢だった。彼女を擁護するなら、自分も湊をまだ誘わないと思う。自意識過剰で、まだそこまで親しい関係じゃないかって考えちゃうから(特に和解したばかりだし)。彼女はそういう心配性なタイプだよな。考察くん
ash-7831
Koyuki still didn't include him to visit Miki's workplace over the winter break lol. Yota wasn't there either. That could have been a girls only outing.
小雪、冬休みにミキの職場に彼を連れて行ってなかったじゃん笑 陽太もいなかったし。完全に女子会だったってことじゃん!ギャル
NanDemoKnaives
Youta was, she texted Miki that she'll ask Youta, that's why I said what I said.
せやな、陽太に聞くって美紀にメールしてたんやろ?ワイの言いたいこともそれやわ。2ちゃん
Zeallfnonex
原文
I'm feeling very justified with my decision to not assume the worst about Minato last episode. Flailing around for a conversation topic trying to make small talk only to realize too late you may have picked the worst possible one is a bit too relatable. Really love the dynamic, confrontation leading to both of them confronting their biases and faults: Minato realizing that following the Golden Rule when it comes down to personalities might not actually be a good idea. He would ordinarily want someone to do the same thing to him in terms of approach and friendliness, but he's gotten to realize that what works for him doesn't work for Koyuki. And Koyuki on her part realizes she made assumptions and judged Minato before making sure she got the facts correct, the same sort of behavior her bullies did towards her. Great to see both of them own up to their shitty behavior, and now it seems we might actually be entering the romance portion of this. Though it seems we're not done litigating what happened with Igarashi. Seems like it'll be a huge hang-up for Koyuki, it'll probably have to be resolved before any progress can be made with any sort of romantic relationships involving her. Still easily my AOTS when it comes to writing and dialogue, it's been fantastic.
前回、湊に対して最悪の想像をしなくて正解だったな。話題探して適当に話しかけたけど、気づいたら最悪の話題を選んでたって展開、めっちゃわかるわ。今回の対立でお互いの偏見や欠点に向き合うのがいいよね。湊は「自分がされて嬉しいことを他人にも」って考えが性格によっては通用しないって気づいたし、小雪も事実確認せずに決めつけてた自分が、いじめっ子と同じことしてたって自覚した。二人とも自分のダメなとこ認めてるのが良い。そろそろ恋愛パート入るのかな?でも五十嵐の件はまだ引きずりそうだし、小雪が前に進むにはまずあれを解決しないとダメそう。それでも脚本と会話は今期No.1だわ。本当に素晴らしい。普通くん
ptd163
原文
Though it seems we're not done litigating what happened with Igarashi. Seems like it'll be a huge hang-up for Koyuki, it'll probably have to be resolved before any progress can be made with any sort of romantic relationships involving her. I would not surprised if Minato is one that helps Koyun litigate the Igarashi business and that allows her to see him as a romantic interest instead of just a friend like how like their talk this episode allowed her to "let him in" so to speak.
五十嵐の件、まだ決着ついてないっぽいな。小雪にとっては相当なトラウマになってそうやし、恋愛関係に進む前にこれ片付けないとダメそうやな。もし湊がその処理を手伝って、今回みたいな会話で「心開く」みたいな流れから恋愛対象に見るようになったとしても、ワイは全然驚かんわ。2ちゃん
FabtheEmber
Especially since we were upset at Minato for bringing up Igarashi again when she got uncomfortable last time especially since many thought Igarashi must have said something and Minato was trying to dig around more. But now we realize he brought Igarashi up precisely because both her and Igarashi said they don't know each other. And feel on the landmine and it went downhill from there
前回イガラシの話を出して嫌がらせた湊にイライラしてたけど、今思うと彼女とイガラシがお互い知らないって言ったからこそ、わざと話題に出したんだな。地雷踏んでそこから転げ落ちたわけか。普通くん
a_Bear_from_Bearcave
If anything, the fact that she reacted uncomfortably yet Igarashi said he doesn't know her should clue Minato in that this situation is weird and there's no reason to keep digging into it. Especially since he also knows she was bullied, which should automatically make middle school a topic to avoid until he gets close to her. But Minato was as usually arrogant and plowed through anyway.
せやな、彼女が明らかに嫌がってるのにIgarashiが「知らねぇ」って言った時点で、Minatoは「あ、これヤバいやつや」って察するべきやろ。しかもイジメられてた過去知ってるんやから、中学の話は仲良くなってからにしろっつーの。でもMinatoは相変わらず傲慢で強行突破やったな。草2ちゃん
FabtheEmber
Nah he would probably be confused if it was something else he mentioned. Like in the end he figured that the problem was middle school. He still couldn't figure out it was Igarashi. So no it isn't obvious. People can guess different things and they will be wrong. It isn't that black n white
いや、もし彼が別のことを言及していたら混乱してたと思うんだよな。結局彼が辿り着いた結論は「問題は中学校にあった」ってことだった。それでもまだ五十嵐のことだとは気づけてなかった。だから「明白」とは言えないんだよな。人は色々推測するけど、間違うこともある。そんな白黒つけられる話じゃないってのが俺の考察だ。考察くん
Nosib23
Minato shielding Koyuki when the two guys came around the corner is such a sweet gesture. I really feel like there was some social awareness and self-awareness on display from Minato this episode that we hadn't seen up til now. Also so proud of Koyuki for forcing the issue and running after Minato even when she might have felt like the moment was gone.
2人の男が角を曲がってきたときに湊が小雪をかばったの、めっちゃ優しいな。今まで見せてなかった社会的な意識とか自己認識が今回のエピソードで出てた気がする。それに、タイミング逃したかもって思っても小雪が押し切って湊を追いかけたの、すごくえらいと思う。普通くん
FabtheEmber
Yep Minato's social awareness coming in clutch. He is a social butterfly after all!! It was really surprising and cute as well
やばくね!?湊くんの空気読める能力まじで神ってるじゃん!てか彼ってマジで社交性の塊だよね!!それが意外でしかも可愛いってずるくない!?笑ギャル
phoenixking99999999
原文
He always had social awareness, both him and yota do just in different ways of being expressed, this whole situation with koyun only got so bad because his go to socialising methods all failed, number 1 was when she looked in the mirror and he approached to him he was joking with her to her it reminded her of the teasing she experienced in the past, when he copied the face she made in the mirror he thought it was a cool inside joke, to her it further cemented her views on him atp he kinda didn't have a chance, she closed herself off, conversation became difficult and she kinda gave him the deadpan which makes her far harder to read, he tried talking about middle school and unbeknownst to him her middle school life was pretty bad, all these moments combined with his inability to adequately get a read on her basically put them in a situation where he thinks he's being friendly but from her perspective he's coming and reopening all the wounds she had covered up.
彼もユウタも社会的な意識はあるんだけど、その表し方が違うだけだよね。今回のコユンとの件がここまでこじれたのは、彼の社交術が全部失敗したからだと思う。まず鏡を見てた彼女に冗談で近づいた時、彼女には過去のいじめを思い出させる嫌な感じになった。彼が鏡の表情を真似したのはクールな内輪ネタのつもりだったけど、彼女にはそれがさらに彼へのネガティブな印象を強固にした。もう彼にはチャンスがなかったんだ。彼女は心を閉ざして会話が難しくなり、無表情で読めなくなった。彼が中学の話を振った時も、彼女の中学時代が辛かったとは知らずに。こうした積み重ねで、彼は友好的なつもりでも彼女から見れば古傷を全部開けられる感じになってたんだ。普通くん
Nosib23
原文
I don't think any of those things are examples of Minato showing social awareness. The series also basically opens with Minato being broken up with because of a lack of awareness of his feelings and/or how his actions make other people feel. I wouldn't say he hasn't had any social awareness skills up to this point but he certainly hasn't been using them enough. The situation with Koyuki got so bad because he didn't adjust his actions at all in his attempts at befriending her.
確かに、それらは湊の社会的認識の例とは言えないな。物語は彼が感情や行動が他人に与える影響への無自覚さで振られるシーンから始まるし。これまで全く社会的スキルがなかったとは言わないが、十分に活用できてなかったのは確かだ。小雪との件が悪化したのは、彼女と友達になろうとする過程で行動を一切調整しなかったからという考察ができる。考察くん
Latias876
I think you're under-estimating how difficult it is to get to know or befriend someone Iike Koyun :O
コユンみたいな人と知り合うのがどれだけ難しいか、ちょっと過小評価してるかもなー普通くん
phoenixking99999999
原文
There are more instances like when yota, koyun, azumi and him were talking and he felt koyun was being left out of the convo and tried to include her, which is also him adjusting his approach. He did adjust his approach though him acknowledging that talking about middle school is a bad choice is him adjusting his approach all the instances I gave above are him adjusting his approach. He tried asking questions about her odd interaction infront of the mirror, which got him nowhere, he tried mimicking as a form of inside joke, he tried asking about middle school in the form of clubs, previous relationships and the like, and he noticed that wasn't working and acknowledged that the middle school topic doesn't work
確かに、陽太、小雲、あずみと話してる時に小雲が会話から外れてるのを察してフォロー入れたりとか、そういう細かい調整してるよな。
ワイが挙げた例全部、彼がアプローチ変えてる証拠やん。
鏡の前の変な行動について質問してもダメで、内輪ネタっぽく真似してみたり、中学時代の部活や恋愛話を振ってみたり。
で、それも通用しないって気づいて「中学の話題はダメだ」って認めた時点で、もう調整してるやろ。2ちゃん
Nosib23
Those are basically all under the same category of "keep prying information out of her eventually it will work". He only finds success after he stops prying...
基本的に全部「しつこく情報を引き出せばいつかは成功する」ってカテゴリーだよね。でも彼が成功するのは、そのしつこさをやめた後なんだよな。普通くん
phoenixking99999999
原文
The first 2 interactions he had with her weren't prying and he still didn't find success, in episode 2 koyun literally acknowledges that when someone is different from her she can't help but be suspicious and wary, which is what caused him to not find success. The only reason he and koyun eventually made up is because she noticed she had been treating him unfairly and decided to actually give him a chance, there is no approach he could have done that would have worked due to preconceived notions she had about him. Getting to know someone isn't prying information, mind you until she blew up she never even explicitly or implicitly showed that it was something she didn't want to talk about we being the audience knew because we have nore information than him, but be can't read minds, and when they were in the restaurant together he asked about what she does at home and if she comes to this restaurant often and those were both dead ends. I don't want to go through every single interaction they have in order to get my point through, but it is impossible to force someone to be your friend the only success minato found was after he had already given up on pursuing her he didn't change his approach which finally made koyun see his "good" side.
最初の2回のやり取りは彼女のプライバシーに踏み込むものではなかったが、それでも成功しなかった。2話でコユンが「自分と違う人間には疑いと警戒心を抱かずにはいられない」と認めている通り、それが彼の失敗の原因だ。最終的に彼らが和解できたのは、コユンが自分が不公平に扱っていたことに気づき、彼にチャンスを与える決断をしたからで、彼女の先入観があった以上、どんなアプローチをしても通用しなかったと思われる。
人間を知ることは情報を詮索することとは違う。彼女が爆発するまで、彼に対して「話したくない」というサインを明示的にも暗示的にも一切出していなかった点に注目したい。視聴者には彼より多くの情報があったが、彼は心が読めるわけではない。レストランで「家では何をしているのか」「この店にはよく来るのか」と聞いたが、どちらも行き止まりだった。
すべてのやり取りを逐一追うつもりはないが、誰かを無理やり友人にすることは不可能だ。湊が見出した唯一の成功は、彼女を追いかけるのを諦めた後に訪れた。アプローチを変えたわけではないのに、それがようやくコユンに彼の「良い面」を見せたという考察ができる。考察くん
FabtheEmber
Agreed. Minato is a social butterfly. He has opened up and made friends with plenty of liners and is always interacting with others. Him not being able to do that with Koyuki shows just how difficult and different SHE is. Not that he lacks social skills... Or awareness.
せやな。湊はマジで人たらしやで。色んなライナーと仲良くなって常に交流しとるのに、小雪にはそれができへんってのが、彼女のヤバさを物語っとるンゴwww 湊の社交性の問題ちゃうで…ワイもそう思うわ。2ちゃん
Vahallen
Damn, the episode made Minato grow on me a ton, didn’t expect it, I feel kinda guilty like Koyun now lol Also, guys there is a pretty long post credit scene, don’t miss it
うわ、今回のエピソードでミナトめっちゃ好きになったわ、予想外だった。なんかコユンみたいに罪悪感あるわ笑 あと、結構長めのポストクレジットシーンあるから見逃すなよ普通くん
Shadow_Ass
Yea same. In comparison to the beginning, I'm definitely not hating anymore. A very little part of me is even shipping them atp lol
開始に比べたらもう全然嫌いじゃないわ。ワイの心の片隅ではもうこの2人くっつけとけって思ってるンゴwww2ちゃん
kelpklepto
i was a day one Minato apologist and I feel so vindicated now with all the comments coming around to him
俺は初期からミナトの擁護者だったけど、今になってみんなが彼を認めてるコメント見るとめっちゃ報われた気分だわ普通くん
Frontier246
原文
We now return to the Minato getting told off by Koyuki, and we even get to see in real time as he pieces together how much he's screwing up and stepping on landmine after landmine to the point where Koyun rejects him! Poor kid, he was genuinely trying his best. Of course Koyuki doesn't feel any better about how she acted, which is just another thing for her to be self-conscious and upset about, especially when she doesn't know what to do now or let alone how to apologize. HELP HER NORIKO!!! At this rate the entire gang is going to start eating lunch at the nurse's office, but at least Noriko can approve of Yota being positive for Koyuki's mental health. I've seen so many anime's where people are surprised the nurse isn't in that I was kind of shocked Noriko had a sign to let people know when she's making the rounds. Yota is WELL aware of all of Minato's faults, but he also knows that Minato is a genuinely good person and ultimately meant well. Besides, he and Minato had both figured out middle school was a sore subject for Koyuki because Miki had more or less told them about Koyun's bullying and how Miki couldn't do anything about it. Koyun and Miki were POLAR OPPOSITES which is why she didn't want to drag her sports star bestie into her drama. Yota thinks Minato won't be bothered but he's definitely not taking it well either. Was he wrong in his approach? Was Koyuki too dismissive? Are they simply incompatible in any sense? Can they truly never relate/understand each other? Are they better off staying away from each other? Pretty bad time to get caught up in your feelings/anger while playing a game with friends. But just when it seems like Minato has given up and Koyun can't bring herself to face him...she runs to him and apologizes and tries to fully express her feelings. Even if she can't get the words out, even if she cries because of all her overwhelming thoughts/emotions, her intentions are sincere and that's enough for Minato. Nice save, Minato! And seeing his pomeranian is enough to make Koyuki FINALLY laugh and smile at him! And even if their parting is a little awkward, that smile does things to him! I feel like this is a new dawn for the both of them, especially when the sun comes out. Did Igarashi try to pretend like he didn't know Koyuki? Or was her last name not "Hikawa" when they were dating? Ha! Minato doesn't want to lose to Yota when it comes to being close to Koyuki. It's still somewhat awkward, but Minato and Koyuki can interact with each other a lot more naturally now and seem to be more or less getting along in their own way. Koyuki now understands that she doesn't have to completely close herself off and reject people without getting to know them...and Minato is down bad for Koyun. Suzuki, Sato, and Nabe!? Well, it's nice to see that Koyuki actually has more female friends from junior high than just Miki, Even if the girl talk amounts to Miki confirming that all her junior high relationships ended badly when they discovered the "real" Miki and couldn't handle her at her Gorilla best. She fully intends to confess to her next crush (which doesn't seem to exist at the moment so...sorry Yota?). Koyun, for her part, has an Igarashi-shaped PTSD for relationships so she has no intention or interest in ever getting another boyfriend. Though it seems like the only reason she got involved with Igarashi was because...of Miki!?
今度は湊が小雪に叱られるシーンに戻ったわけだが、彼がリアルタイムで自分の失敗の大きさを理解し、地雷を踏みまくった末に小雪に拒絶される過程が生々しい。不憫な奴だ、本当に最善を尽くしていたのに。もちろん小雪も自分の行動に後ろめたさを感じており、それが彼女の自己嫌悪と不安をさらに煽っている。特に今どうすればいいか分からず、謝罪すらどうすればいいか分からない状態だ。ノリコ、助けてやってくれ!このままではグループ全員が保健室で昼食を取るようになるが、少なくともノリコは陽太が小雪のメンタルヘルスに良い影響を与えていると認めている。保健室の先生が不在で驚くアニメは何度も見てきたが、ノリコが巡回中に知らせる看板を用意していたのは新鮮な驚きだった。陽太は湊の欠点をよく理解しているが、同時に彼が根は良い人間で最終的には善意から行動していることも知っている。それに、二人は中学時代が小雪のタブーであることを既に把握していた。美希が小雪のいじめの件と自分が何もできなかったことを大体話していたからだ。小雪と美希は正反対の性格だったため、彼女はスポーツスターの親友を自分の問題に巻き込みたくなかったのだ。陽太は湊が気にしないと思っているが、湊も決して平気ではない。彼のアプローチは間違っていたのか?小雪は拒否しすぎたのか?単純に二人は相性が悪いのか?本当にお互いを理解できないのか?距離を置いた考察くん
Kirosh2
Koyun... What a good girl. Yota, where were you during Lunch. You know what? Yota x Minato also feels pretty nice. But Koyun does have a way to mess up Minato's emotions. While her smile is super effective against him.
コユン…本当にいい子だな。ヨタ、昼休みどこにいたんだよ。そういえばヨタ×ミナトも結構いい感じだよね。でもコユンはミナトの感情をかき乱すのが上手いんだよな。彼女の笑顔がミナトには超効果的ってわけだ。普通くん
Frontier246
Koyun's smile and laugh has got Minato hooked. He's slowly easing into friendship with her but having her accept he might have romantic feelings for her might be an even bigger hurdle to push past her ramparts.
コユンの笑顔と笑い声に、ミナトは完全に心を奪われているな。彼女との友情にゆっくりと足を踏み入れているが、彼女に恋愛感情を認めさせるのは、彼女の城壁を越えるより大きな壁になるだろうという考察ができる。考察くん
BaytaCosmico
Seems Minato has the same condition as Yamada from Polar Opposites.
ミナトって極寒のヤマダと同じ症状なんだね。普通くん
Medical-Efficiency-6
maybe he should've given her bread stickers to get closer to her
確かに!パンのシールあげれば距離縮まったかもな…ってそれ氷の城壁の話じゃねえし!でもそういう小ネタ好きすぎるッ!感情くん
ptd163
Koyun's smile and laugh is what hooked Minato so now I'm wondering what will hook Koyun about Minato. Maybe he tries to help resolve the hard feelings she and Igarashi have and she asks why he would do that for her. They're just friends, unless...
小糸の笑顔と笑い声が湊を惹きつけたんだよね。じゃあ小糸は湊の何に惹かれるんだろう?もしかしたら、湊が五十嵐さんとのわだかまりを解こうとして、小糸が「なんで私のためにそこまでするの?」って聞くパターンかな。まだただの友達だけど、もしかしたら…普通くん
SYZekrom
It felt like we were polar opposites Say that again gif Oh that was the best episode yet.
わかるッ!「正反対だね」ってセリフ、あのgifまさにそれすぎるッ!
今回のエピソード、今までで一番良かったわ…優勝!!感情くん
BaytaCosmico
原文
Post credit scene with Polar Opposites crew cameo! And we finally learn that Koyun used to go out with this Igarashi who's left her with some major anxiety. I remember being taken aback when I learnt this first but it was telegraphed better in the anime. Wonder if any anime onlies were surprised to find out. I hope people will look more kindly on Minato after this episode. Like Yota says, he's not a bad guy even if he can be a bit overbearing. Hopefully the peek we got into his head this episode (starting from the replay of the scene with Koyun from the last one all the way through) makes it clear that he's just a well-meaning guy who's been out of sync with Koyun. And that's at least partially her fault for making assumptions about him based on her past experiences and not really trying to see or get to know the real Minato. She's finally realised this and is actively trying to change, which led to that lovely scene with the two of them at the end (with the ED lead in which I can't get enough of - so perfectly placed each time). And made him lose it. Boy is b-dmp'ing big time. All aboard the Koyun x Minato ship!
ポストクレジットシーンでポーラー・オポジッツのクルーがカメオ登場!そしてコユンがかつてイガラシと付き合っていて、彼から大きな不安を抱えることになったとついに判明したな。初めて知った時は衝撃を受けたのを覚えてるけど、アニメではより丁寧に伏線が張られていた印象だ。アニメオリジナル視聴者がこの展開にどれだけ驚いたか気になる。
今回のエピソードでミナトに対する見方がもっと好意的になることを願う。ヨタの言う通り、彼は少々過保護すぎる面はあっても悪い人間じゃない。前回のコユンとのシーンの再現から始まった今回の彼の内面描写を見れば、単にコユンとすれ違っていた善意の人物だってわかるはずだ。
そしてそのすれ違いの原因の一端は、過去の経験からミナトを決めつけて本当の彼を見ようとしなかったコユンにもある。彼女はようやくそれに気づき、変わるために努力している。それがラストの美しいシーン(毎回完璧なタイミングで流れるEDリードインも最高だ)につながり、彼を感情的に崩壊させた。コユン×ミナト船に乗り込め!考察くん
BootyLover299
LOL STOP PLAYING WITH MY BOY MINATO, YALL WAS DISSING HIM SO STAY ON THAT SIDE😡😡😡😡😤😤😤😤😤
ミナトを弄るのはやめてくれよ笑 お前ら散々ディスってたんだからそのままそっち側にいろよ😡😡😤😤普通くん
phoenixking99999999
Dude ik I was even scared to defend him in the sub because of how badly he was being done in the sub, out here acting like he was a demon trying to ruin koyun's life when this guy just had the unluckiest start to introducing yourself to someone and happened to step on every landmine as he crawled his way out.
確かに、このキャラに対するサブレでの扱いには俺も怯えてたよ。まるで彼がコユンの人生を台無しにする悪魔みたいに扱われてたけど、冷静に考察すると、彼はただ自己紹介で最悪のスタートを切って、這い上がる過程で地雷を踏みまくった不運な奴に過ぎないんだよな。この描写、制作陣が意図的に「誤解」と「運の悪さ」をテーマに据えてる伏線だと思われる。考察くん
Unusual-Fun5244
He deserves the dissing. He's a self serving dunce.
草。自業自得やな。自己中なバカやで。2ちゃん
Roskal
Lots of people were giving Minato such a hard time last week, I feel a little vindicated for seeing his side and the things Koyun did wrong as well. I am glad they talked after that and cleared up the misunderstanding, although its not over yet, they are polar opposites (oops wrong show) after all.
先週ミナトに厳しい意見が多かったけど、自分はコユンの落ち度も見えてたからちょっと胸張れるわ。誤解は解けてよかったけど、まだ終わってないしね。何せ正反対の性格だし。普通くん
zool714
People see overly friendly and immediately assumes narcissistic or savior complex not realizing being overly friendly can also be an effect of some social anxiety as well. I think both have their flaws but people villainize Minato too much (some still do from seeing the comments) and coddled Koyun.
「過剰にフレンドリーだとすぐ自己愛か救世主コンプレックスって決めつけるけど、実は社交不安の現れって可能性もあるのに気づいてないよな。どっちにも欠点はあるけど、ミナトが悪者扱いされすぎ(今でもコメ欄で言われてるし)で、コユンは甘やかされすぎだと思うわ」2ちゃん
yawnman240
To be fair, most of the perspective we had seen from Minato until this episode were semi-ominous sequences of him being a keymaster and viewing unlocking someone as an achievement. While I figured there was more to it, I can’t blame people for viewing him as a bit of a more sinister figure.
確かに、これまではミナトがキーマスターとして誰かを解放するのを成果として見てる不気味なシーンばかりだったからね。もっと深い意味があるとは思ってたけど、彼をちょっと不穏なキャラと見る人がいても仕方ないと思う。普通くん
zool714
原文
I can understand people reserving judgment on him before this ep. But I do think it’s cynical to label him all those things outright from what we’ve got of him so far. Like Yota himself said it, he’s overbearing but he’s not a bad guy. So I really wonder if people don’t like him because of the labels they put in their heads or do they just find him annoying and justify their hate with those labels.
このエピソードまでは彼への評価を保留する人の気持ちも分かる。でも、現時点で得られた情報だけで彼にそういうレッテルを貼るのは皮肉すぎると思うんだよね。ヨータ自身が言ってたように、彼は強引だけど悪い奴じゃない。だから、人々が彼を嫌うのは頭の中で勝手にレッテルを貼ってるからなのか、単に彼が鬱陶しいと思ってそのレッテルで嫌悪を正当化してるのか、本当に気になるな。考察くん
yawnman240
It could be both! Personally, he reminded me of some of my own worst aspects, which I’ve grown through, so I was always giving him the benefit of the doubt. It’s unfortunate that some of the interactions about him here seem a little hostile, though. Hopefully, we get more on Minato’s character soon, and a fuller perspective can be realized that brings about some peace in conversation.
両方の可能性あるよね!個人的には彼に自分の悪い部分を思い出させられたから、成長してきた身としては好意的に見てたんだ。ただ、ここの彼に関する議論がちょっと敵対的になってるのは残念だな。ミナトのキャラについてもっと掘り下げがあって、会話が穏やかになるような視点がもっと出てくると良いんだけどね。普通くん
Killer_154
God, I now have an other favorite author for romance manga, before it was aka akasaka and now it's the one who made You and I are polar opposite and this anime (Need to search his name now)
まじやばい!恋愛マンガの神作家増えたわ!前は赤坂アカだったんだけど、『君と僕は正反対』とこのアニメ描いた人もやばすぎ!今すぐ名前調べなきゃじゃん!ギャル
Ok-Cod5254
I believe it's a female author
女性作家だと思うね普通くん
LoopyChew
Her name. Agasawa Kocha, aka “Tea” Agasawa.
「彼女の名前……阿賀佐和紅茶、通称“紅茶”阿賀佐……これマジでエモすぎるッ!名前がもう運命感じる!」感情くん
FabtheEmber
Who is the other one??
もう一人って誰?普通くん
Killer_154
The rampart of ice (sorry for my poor english)
「氷の城壁」ってタイトルやんな(英語下手ですまん)2ちゃん
wutfacer
Aka akasaka is the other mangaka, most famous for kaguya-sama love is war and oshi no ko, but has some other manga too
赤坂アカってさ、他の漫画家で『かぐや様は告らせたい』とか『【推しの子】』で有名なんだけど、他にもマンガ描いてるんだよね!やばくね?ギャル
FabtheEmber
Aah I know her! Thanks!!!
わかる!彼女知ってる!ありがとう!!感情くん
Roskal
Minato still bottles up his feelings, probably even worse than Koyuki does. He seems to have a crush on her which is masking it, but I think it will come back to bite them if he doesn't actually say how he feels and that she upset him.
湊はまだ感情を抑え込んでるよね、小雪よりひどいかも。彼女に片思いしてるのがそれを隠してるけど、本当の気持ちや傷ついたことを伝えないままだと、後で問題になりそうだと思う。普通くん
thisisdropd
原文
Glad the misunderstanding didn’t take too long. Instead of letting it dwell and drag out for a couple episodes it’s addressed in less than one. Sure, it might not have been entirely cleared but Koyuki & Minato realised they’re not on the same page and have begun to work on that. Youta’s got an apt judgement of Minato – he might lack some tact, but he’s got no malicious intent. We’ve got a reciprocal cameo. Koyuki & Miki appeared in one episode of Polar Opposites and now Miyu & Manami are here. A fun easter egg. So Koyuki & Igarashi were indeed in a relationship, and the rumour had merit. Clearly it didn’t end too well, so am curious as to what exactly had happened.
誤解が長引かずに済んで良かった。数話引きずるのではなく、1話未満で解消された。完全に解決したわけではないが、小雪と湊は認識のズレに気づき、そこから修正し始めている。陽太の湊に対する評価は的確だ——彼は機転が利かないかもしれないが、悪意はない。相互カメオもあった。『正反対の君と僕』で小雪と美紀が登場した回があり、今度は美優と愛美がこちらに。楽しいイースターエッグだ。つまり、小雪と五十嵐は確かに交際していたわけで、噂には根拠があった。明らかに良い結末ではなかったようだ。何があったのか気になる。考察くん
Frontier246
原文
Seems like they're setting up that Minato is going to slowly ease down Koyuki's ramparts and help her realize she can be in a relationship without it ending as badly as it did with Igarashi who was apparently the epitome of the worst first boyfriend a girl could have. After all, this author understands that the best relationships are POLAR OPPOSITES. It seems like maybe Miki...I don't want to say pressured, but suggested Koyun give Igarashi a chance not knowing how bad it would end up? Maybe Miki also felt pressured by societal expectations to push Koyun into a relationship.
ミナトが小雪の城壁をゆっくりと取り払って、五十嵐みたいな最悪の初彼氏みたいな終わり方じゃない関係を築けるって気づかせてくれる展開っぽいね。この作者はやっぱり「正反対のカップル」が最高ってわかってるんだな。美紀は強要ってほどじゃないけど、あの結末を知らずに小雪に五十嵐と付き合うよう勧めたのかも。社会のプレッシャーでそうさせた可能性もあるね。普通くん
FabtheEmber
原文
I think what we are seeing here is Koyuki putting down her own walls through effort and realizing it wasn't so bad after all.. Like in this episode she thought she hurt someone and because she is so sweet she brought down her ice walls and apologized almost breaking down in tears. Then Minato with his kindness and helping her hide her tears surprised her and broke down more walls. When she later apologized for crying she was still assuming things about him, and he once again proved her wrong. Twice she put down her walls to be vulnerable thinking she will be shot down and twice she was proved wrong. That will encourage her to consciously put down more walls.. Aah I would like that for the both
このエピソードで小雪が自らの氷の壁を努力で取り払い、実はそんなに悪くなかったと気づく過程が描かれていると考察できる。彼女が誰かを傷つけたと思い込み、優しさゆえに壁を下ろして涙ながらに謝罪するシーンは象徴的だ。その後、湊の優しさで涙を隠してもらい、さらに壁が崩れる。彼女が泣いたことを謝る際も、湊に対して決めつけをしてしまうが、彼はその予想を二度も覆す。自ら壁を下ろして傷つく覚悟をしたのに、二度も否定される経験が、彼女に意識的に壁を下ろす勇気を与えるだろう。この二人の関係性に、今後の成長を期待したいところだ。考察くん
CooroSnowFox
Somehow feeling that Honda in Polar Opposites has the feelings that spill out in this series... the one who picks the ones she opens up to and act icy to outsiders
なんとなく氷の城壁の本田さんって、このシリーズで溢れ出る感情を持ってる気がする…心を開く相手を選んで、外には冷たく振る舞うタイプだよね普通くん
Cally83
Look out for the Suzuki & gang from You and I are Polar Opposites in the cafe after the end credits roll.
エンドロール後に『君と僕は正反対』のスズキたちがカフェにいるから見逃すなよな。ワイも気づかんかったわwww2ちゃん
Frontier246
I can't wait for the future crossover movie with both casts in college lol.
将来のクロスオーバー映画、両方のキャストが大学生になってるの楽しみすぎるわ笑普通くん
SirGigglesandLaughs
原文
Don't miss the after-credits scene, or you'll miss an important scene, plus a fun cameo. Koyuki and Amamiya actually share something interesting; they both size people up pretty quickly and let that shape how they engage. Where it gets different is how much room either of them leaves to be wrong about it. Koyuki's the more rigid one; when she's decided someone isn't worth the energy, she tends to pull back or make herself hard to reach, which means a bad first impression rarely gets a chance to get corrected or updated. Amamiya stays in contact, though (for better or worse), and that keeps things open naturally; the way things eventually shifted with Miki is a good example of that. Neither approach is healthy in my opinion, but both make sense given their backgrounds (Koyuki's especially, given what she's been through). It's good that she recognized that. I've been there before, and it's not fair to others either (plus you miss out on many friendships and can isolate yourself more than necessary). You can start to think the world is worse than it actually is or that fewer people share your interests than you'd expect because you assumed they wouldn't. What were those assumptions based on, though, and were they fair? It's hard to judge without knowing the person a bit first and putting yourself out there, which can be hard.
エンドロール後絶対見逃すなよ!重要なシーンと楽しいカメオあるから。
小雪と雨宮、どっちも人をすぐ判断して接し方決めるんやけど、その後の「間違ってるかも」って余地の残し方が違うんよな。
小雪はガチで硬い方で、「この人無理」って決めたら距離置いて連絡取れなくするから、悪い第一印象が修正されるチャンスがない。
雨宮は(良くも悪くも)接触続けるから自然と関係が開けてくんねん、ミキとの関係の変化がいい例や。
どっちも健康的とは言えんけど、背景考えたら納得や(特に小雪の経験則)。
本人が自覚したのは良かったわ。ワイも経験あるけど、他人に不公平やし、友情逃して孤立するだけやで。「世界はもっとクソ」「趣味合うやつなんておらん」って思い込むんやけど、その前提自体が公平かって話や。
まずは自分から少し開いてみないと判断できへんしな、それが難しいんやけど。2ちゃん
Frontier246
原文
Koyuki's not sure if she's changing or not, but I definitely feel like realizing that Minato is actually a decent guy she can get along with and not Igarashi 2.0 is going to help her consider that she can be more open with and give other people a chance rather than just stick with her old friend group + Yota. I know in the OP she seems to be getting along with someone she's working with at the library so she might be slowly melting her ramparts over time.
コユキは自分が変わってるかどうかは分かんないけど、湊がイガラシ2.0じゃなくて普通に仲良くなれる良いやつだと気づいたのは、彼女がもっと心を開いて他人にチャンスを与えるきっかけになると思う。従来の友達グループと陽太だけに固執しなくなるって意味でね。OP見ると図書館で一緒に働いてる人とも仲良くしてるみたいだから、氷の城壁も少しずつ溶けてきてるのかもな。普通くん
SirGigglesandLaughs
原文
Yeah, she definitely took a big step today. Both she and Minato made some realizations they'll have to chew on for a bit, but what's important is they both needed each other to force themselves out of their comfort zones. Yota and Miki don't really challenge Koyuki in that way. She became friends with Yota because she prejudged him in a good way, but the prejudging was still happening and unexamined. She might not have realized it, but that was making her isolated feelings worse. If even Minato can be friendly, who else has been misjudged and could actually be an ally? Now she realizes that maybe she can think a bit more before slotting people into place, and that's nice for her (in moderation). Minato's issues are more obvious (which is why I focus on mentioning Koyuki more here), and he already realized his assumptions about Koyuki were wrong. He also had his major moment with Miki in the last episode, where we learned he also evolved his view of her. He's still got stuff to work on, obviously. Getting closer to Koyuki is a remedy for that, since she's an angel.
彼女は確かに今日大きな一歩を踏み出したな。湊と彼女、それぞれにしばらく噛みしめるべき気づきを得たが、重要なのは互いにコンフォートゾーンから押し出し合う必要があったという点だ。陽太とミキは小雪にそういう形で挑戦しない。陽太とは良い意味で先入観を持って友人になったが、その先入観は依然として無自覚のまま残っていた。彼女は気づいていなかったかもしれないが、それが孤独感を悪化させていた可能性がある。湊でさえ友好的になれるのなら、他にも誤解していただけで実は味方になれる人がいるんじゃないか?今や彼女は人をカテゴライズする前に少し考える余地があると気づいたわけで、適度にだが良い変化だ。湊の問題はより明白で(だからこそ小雪の方に焦点を当てている)、彼は既に小雪に対する思い込みが間違っていたと認識している。前回のエピソードでミキとの重要な瞬間もあり、彼女への見方も進化させたことが分かった。まだ改善すべき点はあるだろうが、小雪に近づくことはその治療法になる。彼女は天使だからな。考察くん
RipVander
原文
So the other times I forgot to comment, but not this time so: Okay, not having even read the manga I watched this anime blind (or at least at the beginning) and I have to say that i shipped Koyuki and Minato from their first scene and I honestly love them, really a lot, and I have to say I LOVE Minato he is my favorite among all the characters, from the first scene (I have an obsession for the characters with red/orange hair). But speaking of this episode, OH MY GOD! I love this episode. I'm the endagame, but seriously, I love it. And Minato blushing!? Has he developed a crush on her? I love it anyway.
今までコメントするの忘れてたけど今回はちゃんと書くわ。漫画読まずにアニメ見始めたんだけど、小雪と湊を最初のシーンから推してる。本当に大好き。特に湊は全キャラの中で一番好き。赤毛・オレンジ髪のキャラに目がないんだよね。で、今回のエピソードはもう最高!俺はエンディング派だけど、それでも大好き。しかも湊が赤面してる!?彼女に気があるのか?とにかく最高すぎる。普通くん
VeggieLiz
I loved this episode too! They’re my favorite couple at the moment 😊 Loved how she was brave enough to go after Minato even when she didn’t have an apology prepared.
やばくね!?このエピソードめっちゃよかった!今の推しカップルすぎるんだけど笑 謝る準備もできてないのにMinatoを追いかける勇気、まじでかわよすぎる!😊ギャル
RipVander
I'm glad you like it too! I've seen a lot of people who don't like it, and that makes me sad.
同意!自分も好きだよ。あんまり好きじゃないって人多くて悲しかったけど、君が気に入ってくれて嬉しい。普通くん
Adensty
原文
It'd be easier if I could lash out and get it out of my system. but I'm not like that. I know that about myself, but.. Actually, I end up regretting saying something at all. This felt too relatable to me. Sometimes, I feel it will be better to just lash out and get it over with but then I also feel what if I end up saying or doing something I regret since something like this happened in the past. Like Yota said, Minato definitely has some issues with how intrudes into other people's private space and how sanctimonious he could be with the whole pitying mindset that he has but he's not a bad person. I understood that last part but like Koyun, we never really got to see things from Minato's perspective and so things made it seem Igarashi might've told him about Koyuki's middle school part, he already knew about her past vaguely since Miki had shared about it with them. Had Yota not intervened, this misunderstanding would've become even worse but now that Koyuki understands it, she wants to apologize about the whole thing since she realized she reacted based on what she thought was the case instead of trying to understand where Minato came from. Sometimes, there are a lot of things you want to say but it ends up being too overwhelming that you're not able to see it and end up either frozen or overwhelm with emotions and that's what happend with Koyun. I liked how Minato's quick thinking made sure that she didn't have to suffer more embarrassment from it. I really loved how the apology scene went down and the symbolism with the weather. The weather was gloomy just like how Koyuki and Minato were feeling and once they made up, t the weather became clear . Also, I guess Minato is kinda like Yamada from Polar Opposites with how he blushed after he saw Koyun laugh . Speaking of Polar Opposites, just like how we had a Ramparts of Ice cameo in S1 Episode 11, we had a Polar Opposites cameo in this episode.
ガチで感情的になれたら楽なんやけどな、ワイはそういうタイプちゃうねん
過去に後悔したことあるから、言いたいこと言うのも怖いわ
湊は確かに他人の領域にズカズカ入ってきて、憐れみ押し付けるとこあるけど、悪いやつちゃうねん
小雲の立場もわかるわ、色々考えすぎて感情で動いてしもたんやろ
でも湊の機転で余計な恥かかずに済んだのは良かった
謝罪シーンの天気の演出とか草生えたわ、晴れた瞬間「あ、仲直りしたな」って
あと湊が小雲の笑顔見て照れるとこ、正反対の君の山田みたいやん
氷の城壁のカメオもあったし、今回はサービス回やったな2ちゃん
cleaulem
原文
This episode was wonderful. Both Koyuki's and Minato's inner monologues really hit the mark. The self doubts, the switching between feeling sorry and angry towards the other person, asking themselves how they can fix the mess they made, the jumping to conclusions why the other person is angry. All of this really hits so hard. And how they actually talked it out without losing the vibe! This was not the typical "making up" you see in this kind of anime that in the end they are besties. There is still a lot of work to do before you can call the both of them friends, but the first step is definitely done.
今回のエピソードすごく良かったな。コユキとミナトの内面描写がめちゃくちゃ刺さった。自己不信とか、相手に同情したり怒ったりを繰り返す感じとか、どうやったら修復できるか自問するところとか、相手が怒ってる理由を勝手に決めつけるところとか、全部リアルすぎる。しかも雰囲気壊さずにちゃんと話し合えたのが良かった。よくあるアニメの「仲直り」みたいに最後に親友になって終わりじゃなくて、まだ友達と呼ぶには課題は多いけど、第一歩は確実に踏み出せたね。普通くん
foxbase
Hmmm….Minato is feeling pretty relatable rn after hearing his thought process during the locker scene. I can relate pretty heavily to trying to find talking points only to step on multiple landminds. Good thing Yota cleared things up cause IME those situations almost never resolve cleanly unless an unbiased third party steps in to mediate.
ふむ…ロッカーシーンの湊の思考プロセスを聞くと、今の彼がすごく共感できるんだよな。話の話題を探そうとして、逆に地雷を踏みまくる感覚、すごくわかる。幸い陽太が間に入ってくれたけど、俺の経験上、こういう状況って中立な第三者による仲裁がない限り、ほぼ綺麗に解決しないものなんだよな。このシーン、人間関係のリアルな難しさを描いた秀逸な伏線だと思われる。考察くん
Still-Neck-6771
My favourite scene from ep 5 was when Koyun started to cry and Minato was gonna wipe the tears with his sweater but then he didnt because he thought it was little dirty. But in the previous ep he literally wipes Miki's tears with his sweater and Miki complaining saying its dirty. Its very subtle but it was my favourite. 🥹🫶
5話で一番好きだったシーンは、コユンが泣き出した時に湊がセーターで涙を拭こうとして、ちょっと汚れてるからやめたところ。でも前の話ではミキの涙を同じセーターで拭いてて、ミキが「汚い」って文句言ってたんだよね。すごく細かいけど、それが最高だった🥹🫶普通くん