氷の城壁

Omg. It is like Minato is getting bombarded on all sides by things that increases his self doubts. Her friendships with Yuki and Yota, her fast friendship with Momoka, Koyuki's feelings and her acting distant, heck even Koyuki's calling him gross in the first couple of episodes is playing a part in his growing self doubts and fallen self confidence. Guy cant catch a break. Funny that the Minato of episode 1 who was confident in himself might not be susceptible but the Minato who now is really conscious of her reactions and doesn't want to mess up after being shut down is very much affected by Momoka's half truths

It was a bit too early to tell, but now that we have some further inner thoughts we know that Minato didn't really have any agenda with his "manipulations" other than try to make other people happy, because that made him feel happy in return. As far as we can tell, he didn't actively put anyone else down to raise himself up. That's what makes Momoka feel different, I think. She's twisting Koyun's words and actions in a way that could (and probably will) hurt her.

There are layers to that conversation, because after shipping Koyun and Yota, she apologizes, and then threads into that apology: How she (Momoka) would feel creeped out if a friend actually liked her romantically How Koyun isn’t interested in dating her friends so it was bad form for Momoka to ship her with Yota She’s basically using an explanation of her apology to launder commentary on why Minato shouldn’t pursue his crush on Koyun. Extremely sly work.

She's manipulative and two-faced to some extent, and everyone's probably met someone like her in real life at least once because it's not that uncommon at all. That's what I really appreciate about the characterization of this show. People are presented with all their flaws, and it makes them very three dimensional and realistic. For example, everything Momoka does that makes it seem like she's just a jerk is really born out of her insecurity, which is true of a LOT of real people as well.

It is insecurity though, in the end. Momoka is very attractive. She is naturally beautiful, she is socially outgoing, she is popular, and it's easy for her to make friends. If she truly believed in herself, she wouldn't feel like she needed to manipulate amamiya, she would just assume she was good enough to attract his attention. She plays the role of the master manipulator because she thinks her own considerable inherent values aren't up to the task, which probably isn't true.

But isn't it because she can tell that Amamiya has feelings for Koyun, which is why she feels like she needs to manipulate and intervene? Like it doesn't matter how much she believes in herself if the person she likes has someone else they like. You can still be secure and try to manipulate them. If anything, she knows she can go for it because she's secure. But I guess a character we don't know too much about yet can be interpreted in different ways so I guess that's how you see it.

I’m 100% in the minority here and think she so far has done nothing wrong. Best I can tell on rewatch she has no reason to believe that Minato’s crush is reciprocated and not for lack of due diligence. She also hasn’t actually bad mouthed Koyun in her manipulations, which feels rare for this kind of subplot and makes me respect her efforts more. Not her fault Minato has gone this whole season without confiding his feelings in anyone. Bro needs to talk to Yota or Tsukiko - get a wing(wo)man dammit!

Yes I agree Minato is socially adept except when it comes to his feelings for Koyuki. However, I wonder if Minato's flaws of never really hating or disliking anyone as his friends kept telling him in the beginning will play a part here. Like he might not be able to see bad parts in others or what his actual issue is because unlike Yota or Miki we never had a Minato focused episode. They all have their internal struggles and the whys and how's were explored for Miki n Yota. But not Minato

Oh she is awful. She was jealous of Shoko the whole way through because of the attention Shoya gave her. But I think the end where she learns sign just to fuck with Shoko is super on brand for her and a bit of a surrender to the reality and as far as she can go in admitting her fault. It isn’t a real redemption and maybe even half is way overstating it. It is just the olive branch that she is capable of extending given her awful personality. Which is why I like her as a villain.

Yeah. Though this is one of those cases where I really need to trust my source's subtitles. I think Koyun said that she hadn't considered her friends as romantic interests, but Momoka told Minato that Koyun said she wouldn't consider her friends as romantic interests? Which I guess I'd count as Momoka's only lie of the episode, if those subtitles are to be trusted. But now I want someone who knows Japanese to confirm it... or I guess people who have read the manga can confirm it too.

So Momoka says " でも友達としていい人だなーって思ってるうちに好きになっちゃう場合もありますよ. そういうことって ありません？ which basically means "In regards to friends, you're thinking "they're a good person", and then you suddenly fall for them. Has that ever happened to you?" And Koyun says " ない… と思う". which translated to "I don't think so", although she starts with a negation so literally it could be more like "No...I think". When Momoka talks to Minato, she says " こゆん先 輩 友達だと思っている人は恋愛対象にならないって言ってたし" which means Koyun-sempai said she wouldn't consider her friends as potential love interests. So yeah I think the hadn't/wouldn't is a good way of comparing the two, although the first is more like "have you accidentally liked someone when they were a friend" and her second explicitly says "potential love interest" ( 恋愛対象) . So yeah, flat out lie since she put words into Koyun's mouth.

I rewatched it and I would consider it a flat out lie. Originally she basically asks Koyun "Sometimes you're friends but then suddenly you catch feels. Has that ever happened to you?" And Koyun says "I don't think so..." When Momoka talks to Minato, she says "Koyun said she doesn't see any of her friends as potential love interests," specifically the term 恋愛対象, meaning love target/object. That's putting words into her mouth of rejecting them completely, rather than not just liking them by chance.

Yeah she seemed like pure evil to me, though I know she’s just looking out for her own interests and some of the timing isn’t something she could control, or really even know about. But seeing her impact on him at this crucial moment made my skin crawl. She just kept hammering the nails in. And it really felt so sneakily manipulative to cozy up to Koyun that way. (That part I do think was deliberately two faced, even if some of the other things weren’t in her control.)

I totally find her interesting. She took in all the dynamics in a couple of days, set everything up for herself and is going for what she wants. I mean, if you look at the situation objectively without romcom lens... 1) Minato kinda, sorta, thinks he knows he likes Koyun. (It seems it's even the 1st time he actually likes someone) 2) Koyun JUST had a revelation that she might actually like Minato (if she wasn't the main gal, we'd wonder why she was always resorting to being so terribly mean.) They aren't even on the same page let alone in the same library yet and Momoko knows exactly what her goal is and she is gonna take her shot. In the real world, she'd have just moved in without even worrying to create drama. However, it's anime, we need the masterclass in manipulation 😄 I feel more bad for Yota as to how clueless Miki is.....