天幕のジャードゥーガル

As someone who likes the history of the Mongols, I like how this "slice of life" episode lampshaded some important points about the empire: That their nomadic lifestyle was important for them. From the point of view of modern society, something like a building a permanent settlement to serve as the capital feels like common sense, but for the Mongols of the time it was preposterous. That military power wasn't centralized. To be fair, this was the rule almost everywhere: the ruler was first among equals, and it could well be that a subordinate's personal army was larger than the king's. That the empire wasn't (just) about destruction and looting. Keeping trade flowing and merchant routes secure was one of their main policy goals. That women had an important role in Mongol politics. Indeed, royal spouses would be present in important meetings and have their own holdings and retinues. The latter is something I wish more historical or pseudo-historical fiction would pay attention to. Too often, women in such settings are either halpless victims or icnredibly empowered according to modern tastes. Historical women might have been subordinate to men, but that didn't mean they lacked agency, goals or plans even within the limits society had for them. This is something The Apothecary's Diaries understood well. And that one was fantasy!

Well, and from what records we have of the Mongol empire it does seem like they were well ahead of the historical curve on gender equality. Part of being nomadic was that the dedicated housewife wasn't a thing. Everyone took part in the traveling and managing the herds so they didn't have the same structural capacity to isolate women from the important tasks with associated levers of power. Unfortunately we just don't have as many records because they didn't do cities or libraries in the same way. But from what we have they seem pretty damn progressive for their era in this one area. Women held significant roles of power.

The irony of the mongols being popularly portrayed as backward when in fact they were actually very progressive when it comes to gender equality, freedom of religion, racial discrimination and meritocracy. It's ironic that someone like Sitara would still be a slave in Persia and would never be able to be in such a powerful position to take her revenge had she not been afforded the rights that she had. They were radical compared to the time.

The series keeps bringing up that, for many characters, the Mongols provide new opportunities to rise above their station and build something new, instead of being limited by past traditions. Of course, the series also shows why the Mongols would be deemed terrible by contemporary and modern voices. Nomads who see no value in cities and raze them to the ground, who destroy libraries, who massacre or enslave entire populations in a heartbeat. In a way, you could say that the Mongols were also "progressive" and "radical" in their approach to war; while other nations in their time did similar things, the Mongols were doing it at a continental scale, with speed and coordination unheard of until then, and no qualms about tradition, religion or race. The way Tolui casually discussed his plans to destroy the Jin is chilling, yet extremely efficient.

I love the way it balances it, because its a hugely difficult period to hold in nuance, even the best historians struggle with it. Yes, all of the things provided in the conquered regions WERE way ahead of their time, especially religious freedom, a huge step up from what was available before Pax Mongolica, even for the cosmopolitan Muslims of the time. However, to benefit from all of that lovely progression of society, your city/region/people had to submit or be destroyed by the Mongols. I also think its slowly showing a possible future internal conflict within Fatima, as the merchants she questioned have probably set her down that same balancing of views that almost everyone in history has struggled with. Of course her burning desire for vengeance is the difference, or will be, I think.

Agreed. People and history are both complex and complicated, so it's often more convenient to reduce it to simple stories with clear archetypes. But even the most terrible empire can have its good points, because if empires were the worst all the time, they wouldn't have lasted a year. It's not just the Mongols. I remember the discussions in the first two episodes; many a viewer was flabbergasted that slavery was presented as a mundane thing in Tus, with the "good" guys thinking nothing of it (or even patting themselves in the back for being nice to slaves), while the slaves themselves deal with it in different ways (but definitely no "give me liberty or give me death" revolutionary spirit, because the average person just wants to live with a modicum of comfort, including slaves).

I mean the reaction of the enslaved people themselves kind of caught me off guard at first, but I don’t really know what people expected from a story set in the medieval Islamic world to not address the Islamic slave trade. I also think people kind of got the wrong impression initially when they came into this show knowing it’d be a revenge story when such a story does not require the protagonist nor the people around them to simply be hapless victims of mustache twirling villains. Tusian society had very bad elements, existed in a cruel world, and got cruelly massacred. Nothing about it was uniquely evil on the mongols part, but that doesn’t mean people like Sitara are wrong to feel immense hatred for losing the closest thing they have to family.

That was not up to Fatima whether Sitara could marry him as a free woman (with the limited rights that already entails being a wife under Islamic law compared to women in mongol society), it's still the husband who decides. They're also like 8 years old literally anything could happen before that. Mongols deliberately promoted slaves based on competency and skill. Sitara is a translator which meant she was valuable, we even see in the show she was immediately being appointed as a tutor to Sorghaghtani and eventually enter her inner circle.

True. On the other hand, being nomadic also has disadvantages: it requires a lot of open space for their people and herds, since they can't stay in one place for too long lest they starve, and it's an obstacle to develop industry and trade. That was basically Ogedei's point: Mongol warrios might not see the need, but artisans and merchants would benefit from not having to move all the time. And Mongol warriors do want what artisans and merchants provide.

The latter is something I wish more historical or pseudo-historical fiction would pay attention to. Too often, women in such settings are either halpless victims or icnredibly empowered according to modern tastes. Historical women might have been subordinate to men, but that didn't mean they lacked agency, goals or plans even within the limits society had for them. This might honestly be my favourite thing about this series (I wanted to like Apothecary Diaries as well, maybe I'll give it another try), it's like... when one hears someone lecturing that we need more views on history that "aren't about Great Men" etc, it sounds tedious and annoying, like a kind of "eat your vegetables" history. But it's actually possible to explore the past through this perspective in a really compelling way!

Yep. I think the key of stories such as this is presenting the struggles of these women in an appealing way. Not just some cold numbers about the economic role of women or general vagueties about social trends. Let's be honest, the juicy parts of a lot of historical records is the "manly" pursuits: rulers, fighters, explorers, conquerors, etc. But there are also good stories to be told about court life, political intrigue, marriage, and a long etcetera of more "womanly" struggles. It doesn't have to be boring or unimportant just because these characters aren't putting arrows into their enemies or commanding armies to battle.

And even if you do want to do a historical series with a focus on warfare. That doesn’t automatically preclude women from being involved, you just have to more selective of the time and place you base it on. Several European nations had female monarchs or monarchs in all but name such as Jadwiga of Poland and Eleanor of Aquitaine. Caterina Sforza conducted warfare, Joan d’arc fought in battle, not to mention several indigenous tribes in the Americas and Africa they had strong matriarchal elements to their society.

I too wish more historical focused series cared about accurately depicted the prominent roles women could have depending on the society. I feel much the same about historical based queer representation but that’s another thing. And you don’t have to relegate the “prominent roles” to court intrigue either, which is a genre I personally don’t care much for despite liking TAD. You can genuinely do a lot with the roles women play in a historical series. You just have to actually look into where and when in the world they actually played such roles.

"You just walk in like you belong..." "Takes more than that, doesn't it?" "What? To trick the Mongols? What do you need? A fake name, clothes they gave me, and a pretty smile. They're so proud of themselves, they don't even care! They're so fat and satisfied, they can't even imagine..." "Can't imagine what?" "That someone like me would ever get inside their house. Walk their floors, spit in their food, listen to their plans."

It feels like the prologue wrapped up last episode, and the story is really starting to get going now. We're already getting several hints pointing toward the eventual split of the Mongol Empire. Even during the war council, Tolui stood out much more than Ögedei, and I got the impression that some of the people around Ögedei were already dissatisfied with his policies. No matter how well the two of them get along, the people around them aren't necessarily going to see things the same way.

Ögedei also seems to be aware himself that the people simply don’t understand the greater vision behind his policies. He’s walking a precarious path. Tolui might not intend to claim the throne for himself, but this does not matter in the grand scheme of things. If he’s perceived as a legitimate threat to Ögedei’s authority, it will turn out to be a self-fulfilling prophecy. Chagatai must’ve sensed this looming danger for political instability, hence why he made an effort to display Ögedei’s greatness before all.

Now I think I get Ögedei much better. Looks like he wants to transition from an empire of conquest to one of commerce. A wise course of action. Empires of conquest eventually engineer even their very economy around this activity, this they will eventually devour themselves in their drive to survive. A successful commercial Empire will be much more long-lived. Maybe even agreeing to this is why Genghis Khan made him his heir. But it looks like he is perhaps being too hasty about it, and the culture of the mongols isn't ready to contemplate peace. It's curious that in the end, Ögedei was wondering if the Empire will finally listen to his ideas after conquering Qin. I'd have thought he'd have been more concerned about the possibility of the Empire being fractured by the growing power of Tolui. Assuming all this showing from Ögedei was sincere, it's ironic that now Sitara and Töregene have become the warmongers, designing the fall of a peaceful idealist to make him pay for the suffering upon which his idealism might actually have a chance to succeed for the good of all.

Sitara’s conclusion that in order to further their plans to destroy the empire they have to ensure their military campaign is successful and help cause the suffering and deaths of potentially millions of people was the most interesting and impactful part of the episode for me. The series has consistently challenged Sitara’s desire for revenge and biased view of the mongols by showing the positive aspects of their culture, their leaders, and now even the empire itself, but this episode took it one step further and gave Sitara a negative aspect herself. Her commitment to her vengeance against the Mongols is so great that she’s now going to help cause immense suffering not even to Mongolian people, but help the Mongols do so to completely unrelated people. Her words at the end were incredibly powerful and so perfect. “To the people of Kaifeng, I’m just another Mongol.”

Now I think I get Ögedei much better. Looks like he wants to transition from an empire of conquest to one of commerce. I don't think Ögedei is contemplating giving up conquest here. He is thinking about consolidating power through stable commerce before continuing his father’s legacy of conquering the world. In other words, it’s less a transition from conquest to commerce and more an attempt to make conquest sustainable by strengthening the empire’s internal foundation first. Empires of conquest eventually engineer even their very economy around this activity, this they will eventually devour themselves in their drive to survive. Some of the biggest and most prosperous empires in history have had flourishing commerce, while conquest was often a way to secure new resources, goods, and trade routes. The Roman, British, Portuguese, Ottoman, French, and Spanish Empires all operated this way while still maintaining an expansionist mindset. The real threats to empires, whether they focus on trade, conquest, or both, are internal instability, power struggles, corruption, external rivals, and the inability to adapt. Even more trade-focused powers like Carthage, Venice, and the Dutch Republic were not immune to these factors. Even if the expansionist empires I mentioned had stopped conquering, as long as they had remained internally stable, they could likely have survived for far longer.

Töregene and Fatima haven’t even got started with their revenge on the Mongols yet, but it appears that they’ve already found themselves a set of rivals. Möge and Boraqchin aim to contain the seeds of distrust that they’re been hoping to spread. Will they be sabotaging each others’ plans from the shadows? It does feel like Fatima lost some of her innocence in this week’s episode. To achieve a greater goal, she’s willing to sacrifice the people of Kaifeng. Then again, she’s not really in any position to stop this siege either.

Töregene/Fatima vs. Möge/Boraqchin is such a good divide. Teams with a master planner and a royal wife in the spotlight. That said, I think they're all overlooking one important piece: Sorghaghtani. She was the first to move a piece in the board (it backfired, though she doesn't know it yet) and she can also see that the Tolui house is in a dangerous position. Then again, she’s not really in any position to stop this siege either. I think she considered the possibility to try to undermine Tolui's plans in some ways. But she realizes that it'd be better for her plans if he was successful, so she feels bad because she'd abandon them too even if she had the power.

Yeah, after seeing him handling the kurultai I’m getting a better sense of Ogedei’s personality. He seems like someone who’s kind and smart, but lacks emotional intelligence and struggles to empathize with the viewpoint of others. That would explain the issues he has with the rest of the Mongol court as well as why his relationship with Toregene is so strained. He’s kind to her but doesn’t understand what she’s been through.

its more of disconnect between everyone being too much focused on conquest and ignoring the big problems that come with the expansion of their nation. Ogedei is looking ahead to make sure they can keep their expanding nation more under control to make sure it doesnt fall into pieces. He is making sure that they can have a capital that can control most of the market as shown by the merchants that brought the pendant. That way he can keep control over the places they conquer and having a capital that controls the market, where the mongols can convince people to follow their rules, they will be able to maintain their expanding nation.

The thing is Genghis Khan's oldest Jochi was likely a bastard due to him being born as his mother was in a captivity of the Merkits. Question about his parentage made him and Chagatai, the second son not potential candidates for the throne. As choosing either one would have been a certain civil war. Tolui by Mongolian tradition was to inherit the father's household. In modern context youngest son inheriting the father's home. While older ones get aided by the father to build their own lives while he is still alive. In context of an empire that meant Tolui would inherit Mongolia itself and Genghis Khan's army directly under his control. In theory the Khan controlled the entirety of military, but in practice Khan would be in direct control of the core army likely stationed wherever he is at. Where as rest of the lords and princes would control remaining armies. So with that Ögedei was an obvious choice

yeah, i think they call it ultimogeniture in crusader kings. its a strange double layer system. ultimogeniture for one son, and some form of elective clan tanistry for another son. so process of elimination, Ogedei is the natural choice. lets you keep balance of power and reduce resentment between brothers. But i dont know, i think Chingis could just push his will and grant both to Tolui. if i remember correctly, Mongols found their vertical legacy with the Yuan dynasty so you dont need an Ogedai for that. the whole thing about a bigger army inside the empire not belonging to the emperor himself is bound to create a lot of court paranoia. it makes sense for military comman chain purposes where you have multiple warring fronts but its disruptive politically.

They talk about Tolui becoming too strong from this plan but I also took away that the way he presented the plan just seemed like he was disrespecting The Great Kha’an. He just presented it, ordered what everyone did by himself in front of all the other leaders as if he was the one in charge. To me that negates the public apology at the start of the episode by another of the brothers that was done to establish who is the one in charge. The Great Kha’an is being portrayed as a smart and kind leader (for mongol warlord standards) who is more interested in stability, peace and the best for his brothers but his inability to not call out when one of his brothers steps out of line may be his downfall. He is the boss, he was chosen as the leader and he needs to remind everyone of that when someoje like Tolui steps out of line because if not the other brothers will know they can also step out of line and impose their will over the kingdom and he will lose control of the empire.

Honestly, I really love when knowledge is power rather than jump up, kick back, flip around, and spin being the winning combination. Show em your storm, Sitara! Mmmmm this feels ominous When the flute gets a solo, and you are a flutist trying not to buy yet another flute 😩 We are on E7, and I’m still jealous the horses have better lashes than me. I wanna be on whatever the fuck that one horse is on. No brain cells. Only gorgeous lashes and mouth wide open. Merciless to his foes. Magnanimous to his subjects. From the historical context I’ve read about in previous discussions, I guess that’s correct, but then I see some people say that’s sanitizing Mongol rule, so I don’t know anymore 😭 Oh! They’re drinking the fancy milk, the airag/kumis (fermented mare's milk) that I learned about two weeks back! I have fancy milky too: lactose-free milk. I think that instrument playing is the tovshuur (🔗 YouTube ) Why does Tolui seem like he’s setting up the Khan for something? WHOOP! There it is . You sussy, Tolui. Sussy, sussy boy. Are any Kaifeng ethnic groups still around today? (TIL, Kaifeng is one of the ancient eight capitals of China with 4.8M citizens, dang.) That’s osteomancy, bone reading!! That one vertebra has a smiley face. It looks so happy to be here. Is that ringworm on the Khatun’s face? Summer AD 1230: dafuq is going on with the rest of the world at this point? Oh my gods. Those ox(cows? cattle?) are so cute and fluffy 🥹 I want to brush them and cuddle them and watch them be happy and take a nap with them. Sitara: 👁️👄👁️ Horsegirl culture in Central Asia must be surreal Even the camels’ lashes are on point 😭 I don't trust Tolui, but we'll see. That, and my concern grows for Sitara. Everything feels ominous to me, despite seeing a lot of smiles today and some kinder dynamics. I'm sure there is a German adjective for "feeling simultaneously relaxed and on edge". I feel like there's a word for everything in German. I learned a lot today! Today, I Learned (About): Gers I was just curious about Mongolian housing, or gers , and how they build them. I can't describe it, but the videos I found were fun, and a step-by-step guide. I'd love to live in one for a winter with my cats. Citation * How Mongols Built Felt Tents (Gers) To Survive Winters At -45°C ? | Architecture Documentary 🔗 YouTube * Building a Mongolian Ger 🔗 YouTube * How to Build a Mongolian Ger (Yurt): Complete Beginner’s Guide 🔗 Mongolianz Shagai Shagai (Mongolian: шагай) is called ankle bone shooting, in which ankle bones—the lowest part of the ankle joint—of a sheep or a goat are collected for games and divination. This seems to be a game still played today! That’s really cool. I’d like to learn how to play games like that; the videos make it sound like fun! Citations * Shagai 🔗 Wikipedia * Mongolian Culture and Vocab: Traditional Games | Ankle bones (Shagai) 🔗 YouTube * Mongolian game Shagai 🔗 YouTube Khorasan Khorasan was a region that encompasses modern-day western and northern Afghanistan 🇦🇫, northeastern Iran 🇮🇷, the eastern halves of Turkmenistan 🇹🇲, Uzbekistan 🇺🇿, western Tajikistan 🇹🇯, and portions of Kyrgyzstan 🇰🇬 and Kazakhstan 🇰🇿. But the extent of Khorasan varied over time. Lots of stans. Goodness gracious. How many stans do we have 😭 Citations * Khorasan 🔗 Britannica * Khorasan 🔗 Wikipedia * Khorasan 🔗 Iranica Trading under Mongol Empire Rule This will be in spoiler mode, but my citations will not be. [Mongol trade] Under Mongol Empire rule, it linked East Asia and the West, becoming the Silk Road. Merchants were given tax exemptions, lodging accommodations, passports for safe travel, low-interest loans, status, and physical protective aid. The international trade born of Mongol rule was unlike anything seen before in its scope and reach. Why do I not remember learning about any of this in school? I have the retention of a gnat 😭 Citations * The Pax Mongolica 🔗 National Geographic * Mongol Trade: Linking East to West 🔗 History on the Net * The Impact of the Mongol Empire on the Silk Road Economy 🔗 Silk Road * Nyamdaa, Otgonsaikhan. "Silk Road and Trade of the Mongol Empire" Mongolian Diaspora. Journal of Mongolian History and Culture, vol. 3, no. 1, 2023, pp. 69-79. (🔗 ResearchGate & De Gruyter Brill for the legal PDFs) * The Mongols' Mark on Global History 🔗 Asia for Educators 1230: Around the World Lots happened around the world in 1230!! Here’s the 1230 Wikipedia , 1230 On This Day , 1230 Timeline Index , 1230 Medeival and Middle Ages History Timelines , and a Kids Encylocpedia Facts 1230 for perusal! And a fun Premium Weather Index to see what happened, though 1230 is quite barren for weather stuff. 1230 July 23, the Treaty of Ceprano or the Treaty of San Germano is signed in San Germano (Cassino, Lazio, Italy in modern day) between Pope Gregory IX and Holy Roman Emperor Frederick II, king of Sicily. It was finalized in August. So while Sitara is scheming over there, some fun is to be had with the church in Western Europe. (🔗 Wikipedia )

I wanna be on whatever the fuck that one horse is on. No brain cells. Only gorgeous lashes and mouth wide open. Looksmaxxer horse... Oh! They’re drinking the fancy milk, the airag/kumis (fermented mare's milk) that I learned about two weeks back! If I recall, there's also a Mongolian spirit drink made form this, but since metals and fuel are both in short supply, instead of distillation it's concentrated by selectively freezing the water out overnight. I'd like to try them one day! Great work again with the historical references, appreciated!