天幕のジャードゥーガル

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ムハンマドが故郷を旅立って8年後。モンゴル帝国の第四皇子・トルイ率いる軍が、シタラたちが暮らす都市・トゥースにまで侵攻する。屋敷を急襲したトルイは、ファーティマが大切にしていた写本「原論」を奪い...。
エピソードサムネイル
WhoiusBarrel
Knew something tragic was about to happen when everyone was evacuating with such optimism. That mood shift really took a depressing turn when they immediately confirmed the fate of all the men and the elderly taken away. When they revealed even Nishapur was burned down to ground, Zumurrud collapsing was like symbolising that all hope they had was gone.
みんな楽観的に避難してる時点で悲劇来ると思ったわ。連れてかれた男と老人の末路即判明で鬱。Nishapurまで焼失、Zumurrud崩れるの希望全滅の象徴やん…2ちゃん
Worldly-Cherry9631
This cutesy artstyle made that turn to mongolian brutality all the more dissonant and contrasting. Lovely approach by the creators. Edit: spelling
このかわいい絵柄だからこそ、モンゴルの残虐さへの転換が余計に異質で際立ってた。制作陣の見せ方うまいね。普通くん
Atharaphelun
It reminds me a lot of Beast Player Erin , which similarly had a cartoonish art style yet tackled some very serious themes (though not as brutal as this anime).
Beast Player Erin思い出すわ〜。あれも絵柄カートゥーンっぽいのにテーマ重めだったじゃん!まぁこっちほどエグくはないけど。ギャル
CitronClassic672
Like Madoka Magica taught me, and as series like Witch Hat Atelier, Jaadugar, and even Goodbye, Lara have reminded me recently. The more cutesy and beautiful a show’s artstyle looks, the harder the brutal, dark elements of the story hit.
まどか☆マギカが教えてくれたこと、そして最近ではとんがり帽子のアトリエ、ジャードゥーガル、さらにはGoodbye, Laraのような作品が改めて思い出させてくれた。可愛くて美しい絵柄の作品ほど、物語の残酷でダークな要素が刺さるという法則が成立すると考察できる。考察くん
MaskOfIce42
Made in Abyss comes to mind also. I love the contrast between cutesy artstyle and more dark elements, it works so well
Made in Abyssも思い浮かぶじゃん!かわいい絵柄とダーク要素のギャップまじ大好き、相性良すぎなんだけど!ギャル
MtnNerd
Barefoot Gen comes to mind
Barefoot Genを思い出すでござる武士
gabechuck0129
GODAMN MONGOLIANS!! - City Wok Guy
くそったれモンゴル人め!! - City Wok Guy普通くん
iamyou20
I was thinking the same thing hahaha
俺も同じこと考えてたわ。まあ笑うよな。ドライおじ
Thomas_JCG
We all owe him an apology, he was right all along.
みんな彼に謝らないとな。最初からずっと正しかったんだ。普通くん
Donnie-G
Well looking at how the title includes the Mongols and even with what little I knew of them historically - I was like yup. Everyone's gonna die.
タイトルにモンゴルって入ってる時点で、歴史ちょっと知ってるだけでも「あ、全員死ぬわ」ってなったwwwwおじ
CitronClassic672
Props to this show so far for showing how casual death has been throughout much of history. Sitara lost everyone she cared about one after another and the story never stopped rolling.
今のところこの作品に賛辞を。歴史の大半で死がいかに日常の影だったかを示す。Sitaraは大切な者を次々失い、それでも物語は止まらぬのだ。中二病
Alarming-Koala-3524
That's war for ya. Makes me really appreciate how we're possibly living in one of the most peaceful times in history (although the places in the world that are still at war or civil conflict are experiencing more horrific violence than ever)
戦争ってそういうもんやな。今が歴史上かなり平和な時代かもって実感するわ。なお戦地や内戦中の所は地獄やけど…2ちゃん
Jacob-C
Can't have sh*t in Mongolia...
モンゴルじゃ何も持ってられないじゃん…普通くん
Ambitious-Height-148
I hope everyone realizes that it's not just the Mongol & Japanese Empires that are guilty of such cruelty & brutality.So do the European powers that subjugated the Africans, Indigenous Americans & many more & enslaved them.I hope you see the fact that Mongolians are people,too.Just like you,despite both Mongolian & European Empires' past atrocities.
残虐性はモンゴルや日本帝国だけでなく、アフリカ人や先住アメリカ人を支配・奴隷化した欧州列強にもある。過去を踏まえても、モンゴル人も同じ人間だという視点が重要。考察くん
CodeBudget710
I like that the Mongols are actually speaking Mongolian and not Japanese (or Persian in this case)
モンゴル人がちゃんとモンゴル語話してて、日本語(今回はペルシャ語か)じゃないのいいねwwwwおじ
moichispa
They got two sumo wrestlers from Mongolia voice them. Interview here
彼らの声を託すため、モンゴルより二人の相撲取りが召喚されたのだ。インタビューはここにある。中二病
Magnafeana
Not the OC but appreciate the interview link! I had wondered in EP1 if that was Mongolian and if it sounded natural or if it was an older dialect (for the times). Now I’m even more happy they have native speakers!! 🇲🇳
元コメ主じゃないけど、インタビューリンクありがとう!1話でモンゴル語かな、自然なのか当時の古い方言なのか気になってた。ネイティブいて嬉しい🇲🇳普通くん
ESCMalfunction
One of them, Tamawashi, is an absolute legend of the sport. 41 years old and still competing in the top ranks (sekitori), holds most of the age and longevity related records. He's never missed a bout going back to his debut in 2004, and has picked up two championships along the way.
Tamawashiは相撲界の生ける伝説。41歳で今も関取上位、年齢・継続系の記録多数。2004年初土俵から皆勤で優勝2回は凄い。考察くん
MtnNerd
That's really cool. I was assuming they were butchering the language as bad as they usually butcher English.
それガチでええやん。いつもの英語みたいに、その言語も盛大にぶっ壊してると思ってたわ。2ちゃん
CitronClassic672
And presumably for the more important Mongolian characters later on in the story they have the guy who can translate for Sitara, and if there’s a timeskip it probably wouldn’t be a stretch to say Sitara learned Mongolian in that time so they aren’t too restricted by historical accuracy.
後々の重要なモンゴル人キャラにはSitaraの通訳役もいるっぽいし、時間飛ぶならSitaraがモンゴル語覚えたってことにもできそう。史実縛りも緩そうだね。普通くん
Weak_Season_Of_Anime
原文
Man we knew this was coming, but everything went to hell so quickly. Great decision going with the double episode premiere for maximum trauma; first episode lures you in with these characters living in this beautiful idyllic setting only to immediately destroy everything. The way they slowly made Sitara lose everyone she cared for one by one until she was all alone, absolutely brutal. And of course Naoko Yamada's directing is superb; the brutality of war has never been depicted so artistically. I also liked how they went the extra mile and had the horde speak actual Mongolian. Overall a very strong start and contender for AOTS.
来るの分かってたけど一瞬で地獄やん。2話連続でトラウマ最大化、理想郷から即崩壊。Sitaraが全部失うのエグすぎ。Naoko Yamada演出神、モンゴル語もガチ。AOTS候補やろ2ちゃん
Comprehensive_Dog651
Did Yamada direct this episode?
この回、Yamadaが監督したの?普通くん
3rdLastStand
Yamada co-directed episode 2 with Takuya Fujikura, and also storyboarded the episode.
Yamadaは第2話をTakuya Fujikuraと共同演出し、絵コンテも手がけたでござる。武士
Comprehensive_Dog651
Can you share where you found the staff list for each episode?
各話のスタッフリスト、どこで見つけたか教えてもらえる?普通くん
3rdLastStand
It's on anidb , but I also checked the Japanese in the end credits.
anidbに載ってたけど、エンドクレジットの日本語もちゃんと確認した…!感情くん
Porgi-
There is also this site: It's fairly new but really great for staff lists
こういうサイトもあるよ。まだわりと新しいけど、スタッフリスト見るにはかなり便利。普通くん
volcia
Fuggg no wonder I feel so familiar with the storyboard of this anime, the chief director is fricking Yamada.
ああ、どうりでこのアニメの絵コンテがやけに見覚えあると思った。総監督、Yamadaじゃないか。ドライおじ
Calenmir
原文
I cried in first episode a little because of happiness. I'm not exactly from this region I'm Turkish and I'm not a religious person. My ancestors were more like the Mongolian people actually, most likely many similar stories happened on the many places they conquered. But I still accept the way of the living and the culture of west Asia as part of my own regional history and culture. Seeing the way of life pictured and mentions of Ibn-sina and Al-biruni that we learn one of the first parts of our history brought tears to my eyes. At the time that the whole region represented as backwards and barbaric widely in the west, seeing how it was respectfully shown in this anime made me seen, happy and emotional. Then came the second episode, knowing how brutal it was for regular people like us back in the day, I was already expecting heavy things. Still bawled my eyes out two times; when I realized how Fatima was loving Sitara as if she was her own daughter and how Zumurrud was still longing for her home and lost all her will to live when all her connections to her home was taken from her. Now I'm rooting for you Sitara, on your way of manipulating the continent.
第1話は嬉しくて少し泣いた。自分はトルコ人で信仰は薄いけど、西アジアの文化を自分の歴史の一部だと感じてる。イブン・シーナーやアル・ビールーニーが敬意を持って描かれてて感動したよ。第2話は当時の残酷さが辛くて号泣した。ファーティマの愛やズムルドの故郷への想いにやられた。シタラ、応援してる。普通くん
mujhe-sona-hai
I mean you're not from the region but the Mongols did also conquer the Sultanate of Rum which encompasses most of Turkey. There wasn't as many massacres as Khwarazm but it still deeply affected Turkey. It's why the Ottomans were able to rise from the ashes.
君はその地域出身ではないにせよ、MongolsはTurkey大半を含むSultanate of Rumも征服。Khwarazmほど虐殺はないが、Ottomans台頭の土�考察くん
Calenmir
原文
I got a bit confused with your comment because I never heard of Sultanate of Rum before, because I never read history in English (or any non-turkish sources tbh) In Turkish history this nation named as Anatolian Seljuk Empire, never thought about what others were calling that civilization. Rum is referred to the people from the east rome for us that caused the confusion for me. It should be obvious however, since there were already people living there before Turks came and our cultures intertwined naturally.
「Sultanate of Rum」って聞いたことなくて混乱した。トルコ史だとAnatolian Seljuk Empireだし、Rumは東ローマの人の意味だから。文化が混ざったなら当然だけどね。普通くん
Remitonov
It was on purpose, AFAIK. When the Seljuks conquered Anatolia, they named themselves the Sultanate of Rum, because that was the land they ruled over at the time, that being the lands of the Eastern Roman Empire. The demographic shift from Greek to Turkish hasn't quite started yet at the time.
自分の知る限り意図的だと思われる。セルジュークは東ローマ帝国領を支配したためルーム・スルタン国を名乗った。当時はトルコ化も未進行。考察くん
lordposedyon
Btw, this information was taught in Türkiye back when I was in elementary school, but it was not like you have to know they called themselves Sultanate of Rum as well. This was 25 years ago though. Since then goverment changed the educational style and İndex so much that I wont be surprised to know they dont teach a lot
ちなみにこれ、俺が小学生の頃はTürkiyeで習ったよ。でもSultanate of Rumとも名乗ってた、までは必須じゃなかった。25年前の話だけどね。普通くん
Remitonov
I suppose. I probably expect the information to be truncated enough to be taught to kids. What I meant is that the Seljuks named their sultanate 'Rum' on purpose.
せやな。子供向けならかなり端折られるやろな。ワイが言いたいのは、セルジュークが意図的に国名を「ルーム」にしたってことや。2ちゃん
lordposedyon
I mean, Mehmed took the title Kayser-i Rum after he conquered Constantinople. I dont think this information is also cut
いや、MehmedはConstantinople征服後にKayser-i Rum名乗ったんだよね。この情報までカットはないと思う…!感情くん
kaesura
To clarify, demographic shift from Greek to Turks was one of Turkification not of displacement (until the Young Turks where remaining Greek population was ethnically cleansed and genocided) Modern day Turks largely are descended from Christian Antalolia and Balkans.
整理すると、ギリシャ人からトルコ人への人口変化は追放じゃなくトルコ化。青年トルコ党期に残ったギリシャ人は民族浄化・虐殺され、今のトルコ人の多くはキリスト教徒のアナトリアやバルカン系だね。普通くん
Hot-Sample-952
I still can't ready for how sitara gonna make The continent his plaything. Because based of the source, she and Togede make mongol in their palm
まだ心の準備できん。原作だとsitaraとTogedeがモンゴルを手玉に取って、大陸を玩具にするんやろ…2ちゃん
ongogavlogian
Mongol horde is terrifying
モンゴルの大軍、怖すぎる普通くん
yancovigen
Thing is they were even worse and more terrifying irl.
いや現実ではさらに酷くて怖かったんだよ…無理すぎる。感情くん
Al-Pharazon
Yes, for example the anime tells us that they killed everyone in Nishapur but the artesans. But it doesn't mention that 1.7 million people lived in that city before Temujin decided to pay a visit. And that was not even close to the worst massacre comitted by the mongols
せやな、例えばアニメではニシャプールで職人以外皆殺しにしたって言うてるやん。でもテムジンが来る前に170万人住んどったことは触れてへんのよな。しかもこれモンゴルがやった虐殺の中じゃ全然マシな方やからな…ガチで2ちゃん
yancovigen
Outside of massacre the mass rape of the Oirat girls is one of the most insanely cruel acts one could imagine
虐殺を除いても、Oiratの少女たちへの集団レイプは想像しうる限り狂気の残酷さ…胸糞すぎる。感情くん
Myrkrvaldyr
I actually was surprised Sitara and the other women weren't raped given the Mongols' reputation. Glad it didn't get that dark, though.
モンゴルの評判を考えると、正直Sitaraたち女性が襲われなかったのは意外だった。でもそこまで暗くならなくてよかった。普通くん
drt0
Damn that makes more sense than I want it to make. I think I'll assume since it wasn't said explicitly that it didn't happen for my own mental.
くそ、その解釈あり得すぎて嫌やわ。明言されてないし、ワイのメンタルのために起きてないことにしとくンゴ。2ちゃん
Varyskit
When she resists the boy he also says in response "It's not...It's not like that" so that sort of proves or at least implies strongly the rape happened. It's just not made as obvious.
彼女が抵抗した時、少年も「違う…そういうんじゃない」って返してるし、レイプがあったことはかなり強く示唆されてると思う。露骨じゃないだけ。普通くん
Platinum_Rad
holy fuck, that makes it even more grim
うわまじか…それでさらにエグくて重い感じになるじゃん…ギャル
Hot-Sample-952
what?? they are raped too??
えっ??あの人たちもレイプされてるの??普通くん
blank_dota2
Yeah, the Mongols were quite brutal even for the middle-ages.
せやな、中世基準でもモンゴルはかなりえげつなかったわ。2ちゃん
Salt-Use-
They were not. Look at the crusades for example and tell me that was normal for it's time. The Mongols only stand out because they kept winning.
いや違うっしょ。十字軍とか見て、あれが当時普通だったって言える?Mongolsが目立つのは勝ち続けたからだけじゃん。ギャル
blank_dota2
原文
Really? The Siege of Nishapur resulted in the entire city being wiped out save for less than 400. Over a million dead. Merv surrendered but still had a large amount of civilian deaths anyway from the Mongols. Urgench and Baghdad also had similar outcomes. Are you really claiming the crusaders were that brutal? The mongols literally killed tens of millions. The crusaders were less competent and less organized, at most killing less than a million. The Mongolians were far more brutal and systemic wiping out nearly entire populations in the damn city that resisted them. They completely destroyed and wiped out Bamiyan. The crusaders and Arab armies could not touch the amount of death and misery the mongols caused.
マジで?ニシャプールの包囲戦は400人未満を残して街ごと全滅、100万人以上死んでる。メルヴも降伏したのに大量虐殺。十字軍がそこまで残虐だったって言うの?モンゴルは数千万人殺してるし、抵抗した街の住民をほぼ皆殺しにした。十字軍やアラブ軍じゃモンゴルの残虐さには到底及ばないよ。普通くん
Salt-Use-
That's not what you said. You claimed they were more brutal for their time. If we look at the siege of Jerusalem it was incredibly savage and brutal. Yes the death toll was smaller but that doesn't mean it wasn't any less brutal, the Mongols only stand out because they kept winning which is my point.
言ってたこと違うやろ。「当時としてより残虐」って主張してたやん。エルサレム包囲もガチで凶悪。モンゴルが目立つのは勝ち続けたからや。2ちゃん
Hoedoor
All armies rape
どの軍隊もレイプする普通くん
CitronClassic672
As an aside, a detail that I loved but what might have gone over others’ heads is the shot of the wolf when he get Genghis Khan himself speaking. As Temujin is described in several accounts as having eyes like a wolf’s.
余談やけど、Genghis Khan本人が語る場面で狼のカット入るの好き。Temujinは史料で“狼みたいな目”って言われてるんよな。2ちゃん
MindlessAnnual8323
I think it have more to do with wolf being a spiritual icon for Mongols.
それ、狼がモンゴル人にとって精神的な象徴ってことの方が大きい気がする…!感情くん
kalirion
I didn't think it was even possible for a city to have that high a population back then...
あの時代にそんな人口の都市とか、そもそもあり得ると思ってなかったんだけど…やばくね?ギャル
Al-Pharazon
原文
Generally it was not common. Outside a few cities in China, India and Baghdad you would struggle to find a single city above the million. In Europe you would have to go back centuries when Rome had around 2 million people at its peak. But in the case of Nishapur it's population was likely greatly inflated due to temporary circumstances. When the Mongols first attacked the Khwarazmian Empire they besieged Bukhara, Samarkand and Gurganj ( which siege lasted for 7 months as it was heavily defended), while this lasted I imagine mongol raids became common in Khorasan (the neighbouring region) Given such conflict, it would not be strange for those who could afford it to seek refuge in regional centers like Merv or Nishapur. Khorasan was a rich and populated region and until 1221 its cities remained relatively safe, as that was when Genghis had his son Tolui scourge the region, which he did. Also, the numbers I mentioned were compiled decades after the events, so like most historical records from the time they're likely exaggerated, albeit I don't think that it is by much given the context above.
当時100万都市は稀という前提を踏まえると、ニシャプールの人口はモンゴル侵攻で避難民が集中し一時的に膨れた可能性が高い。史料の数字は誇張だろうが、大外れではなさそう。考察くん
Korkez11
They certainly didn't look like children IRL... Seriously, even their general (I guess) who took the book looks like he's younger than Sitara.
あいつらリアルだと全然子供に見えなかったよね…。本を持ってった将軍っぽい人ですら、Sitaraより若く見えるし。普通くん
Golden_Phi
I was wondering why he looked so young
なんでこんな若く見えるの!?って思ってた…感情くん
wutfacer
He talks about his father so he's probably supposed to appear relatively younger
父親の話してるし、たぶんわりと若く見える設定なんだと思う。普通くん
jyper
He's the youngest son I think
たぶん彼、末っ子だと思う…!感情くん
HollowBlades
I think he is a child, and younger than Sitara. He said his father was Genghis Khan, so he's probably Tolui, who would only be 9-10 years old during the sacking of Tus.
子供やと思う、Sitaraより年下やろ。父親がGenghis Khanって言ってたし、Tus陥落時9〜10歳のToluiっぽいンゴ。2ちゃん
3rdLastStand
Is that true IRL? Wikipedia lists Tolui's birth as ~1191-1192 or as early as 1180s, and Tolui's massacre of Tus in 1221. That would make Tolui ~29 years old at youngest.
それって史実でも本当?WikipediaだとToluiの出生は1191〜92年頃、早ければ1180年代で、1221年にTus虐殺。最若でも29歳くらいだよね。普通くん
judasmartel
Tolui would have been 29-30 when he sacked Tus and Nishapur. Art styles can be deceiving.
ToluiはTusとNishapurを攻め落とした時、29〜30歳だったはず。絵柄ってほんと惑わされる…!感情くん
razycal970
The Mongols, during the Siege of Caffa, catapulted plague-infected bodies over the walls and into the city, which is one of the earliest recorded instances of biological warfare. It was a colony of the Republic of Genoa and a very important port city, and the fleeing Genoese merchants carried the infection with them. It resulted in the Black Death.
モンゴルはカッファ包囲でペスト死体を投げ込み、生物兵器の初期例やな。逃げたジェノヴァ商人が広げて黒死病に繋がった。2ちゃん
starswtt
原文
Nitpicks for those who care It didn't result in the black death. The black death was already ravaging asia and this was only one of the many many vectors that brought it into Europe, though the Genoan one was ultimately one of the first places it entered Europe. Also that account from Mussis, while contemporary and mostly not inaccurate, is considered to be inaccurate in that specific regard. The Y. Pestis bacteria responsible for the black death does not actually transmit efficiently from corpses. Its technically possible that it did spread from an infected corpse, but it happens so infrequently its just not an effective combat tactic, as confirmed by the fact there is literally no other recorded instances of the Mongols doing this, that its generally considered unlikely. Especially since this did align with how the Europeans believed the bacteria would spread (via miasma or bad air), but not with how the Mongols believed disease functioned. And like the Mongols had to enter the city to plunder it, so its unlikely that they wanted it to be ridden with disease. And Mussis wasn't there when he wrote it, he was trying to stich together various accounts of differing credibility and the catapaulting corpses happened to line up with what they knew about how disease spread and Mongol brutality, so it kinda checked out ig. Logistically, siege warfare is just difficult, and the geography made it so its actually just really hard to fire a soft and fragile corpse over the walls reliably bc corpses are not very stable at high speeds and not very aero, so it might not even have been possible. And if it broke apart early, it would have just damaged the siege weapons or gotten in the Mongol's way. And the Mongol army there was at the time disorganized and in a leadership crisis since they were themselves being ravaged by plague, and siege weapons are a logistical nightmare even with functioning leadership. And Mussi's documentation was heavily dramatized. So not necessarily impossible, but modern historians are very skeptical, bc the odds of Mongols even deciding to do this, then finding a corpse that's for sure killed by the plague, but by a short enough window that it's still warm (otherwise its not a vector), and that body has to be one they're willing to desecrate so it can't be their own, and then having the logistical capacity to do this as they're also dying of the plague, and then the body and any attached carriers like fleas actually making it over (since bodies are too light for most trebuchets, and again human body fragile and not very heavy/aero and geography required them to place it kinda far), its all fairly unlikely It did however likely come to Europe with the Mongols. Either directly through the Mongol armies or through the new trade routes created by the mongol armies, or likely both
細かいけど、あれが黒死病の原因ってわけじゃない。既にアジアで広がってて、欧州への経路の一つ。Mussisの記録もその点は疑わしく、死体投げは史家も懐疑的。モンゴルや交易路経由で来た可能性は高い。普通くん
MtnNerd
Given the plague was primarily transmitted by fleas, the clothing of the deceased was enough of a transmission vector
ペストって主にノミで広がったんだし、死者の服だけでも十分すぎる感染経路だったよね。感情くん
starswtt
原文
Which is the only reason why corpses are at all a vector of the black death, which I do acknowledge as possible, but it's still ultimately a poor vector. Even if the bodies of the deceased actually crossed the walls, it's generally considered unlikely to actually spread it. Not impossible, just unlikely. Fleas are sensitive to changes in body temperature and will leave the body within a few hours of the body's death, especially when being handled by another person which provides a perfect place for fleas to escape to. Technically none of the factors I gave guarantee with 100% certainty that the mongols didn't catapult corpses over as a form of bio warfare, just that there's so many things working against the theory that it's ultimately deemed unlikely.
死体が黒死病の媒介になるのは認めるけど効率悪すぎ。ノミは死後すぐ逃げるし、モンゴル死体投げ説は不可能じゃないが薄いわ。2ちゃん
No-Method-2303
Lol
ウケる笑ギャル
alconnow
Harrowing second episode 😭 These two episodes were fantastic. I’m excited for the rest of the season OP/ED are both gorgeous
第2話しんどすぎた😭 この2話、めちゃくちゃ良かった。続きも楽しみすぎるし、OP/EDどっちも美しすぎるッ!感情くん
Nghtmare-Moon
Yup!!! Ever since I saw the art style it gave me Kaiba vibes and so far it’s delivering!
それな!!! 絵柄見た時からKaibaっぽさ感じてたけど、今のところ期待通りだね!普通くん
Namaryu
I simply do not believe Muhammad is dead. If he had studied so much surely he predicted the future and escaped.
Muhammadが死んだとかまじ信じられないんだけど!あんだけ学んでたなら未来予知して逃げてるっしょ!ギャル
bicb00sac
Unless it's an unreliable narrator, it was stated in Ep 1 that he would go on to become a scholar of some renown. Then again, maybe that occurred in the 8-year timeskip, so it may all just be to leave his status ambiguous
語り手が信用できない場合を除けば、1話で彼は名のある学者になると示されてた。ただ8年の空白期なら、立場を曖昧にする意図とも考察できる。考察くん
WiIzaaa
Nah he survived. According to his ( surprisingly long ) Wikipedia page he survived and thrived so much his legacy is still used to mathematically traumatize young minds 8 centuries after his passing.
いや、生き残ってる!意外と長いWikipediaによると、その後めちゃ栄えて、死後8世紀でも若者の脳を数学でトラウマにしてるらしい。無理!感情くん
mokapotBlender
It's not surprisingly long. It's long because al-Tusi was one of the most influential intellectuals in history.
長くても驚かんやろ。al-Tusiは歴史上でもトップ級に影響力あった知識人なんやし。2ちゃん
pituechos
Oh these characters are actually based on real people from history? I'd assumed it was just a story taking place within history but this is neat!
え、このキャラたち実在の歴史上の人物が元なの?歴史を舞台にした話だと思ってたけど、これは面白いね!普通くん
AmusedDragon
Narrator also did say that when they parted it was the last time they ever saw each other face-to-face. ;_;
ナレーターも「顔合わせるのはこれが最後」って言ってたしな…;;2ちゃん
bicb00sac
True, but that doesn't necessarily mean he's dead, they could just never have contact again due to the vastness of the world and lack of communication (e.g., difficult to send letters, don't know current locations, etc.)
確かに。でも彼が死んだとは限らないよね。世界が広くて連絡も難しいから、居場所が分からず二度と会えないだけかも。普通くん
Golden_Phi
Also the assumption that he is dead would keep her from trying to reunite with him.
それに、彼が死んだって思ってれば、彼女も再会しようとかしなくなるじゃん。ギャル
CitronClassic672
This, I think that bit by the narrator was allowed despite seemingly being a spoiler of his true fate because it doesn’t really matter whether he’s alive or not because he’s dead to Sitara now.
それな。ナレーターのあれは本当の運命のネタバレっぽいけど、Sitaraの中ではもう死んだ存在だから許されたんだと思う。普通くん
DetectiveMiku
原文
From my experience, it doesn't make sense that she wouldn't reunite with him when that's the main plot point of the story. Additionally, never believe in character off screens deaths, especially when you could argue the main 2 characters are Sitara and Muhammad. Sitara has to reunite with Muhammad to be by his side. "This is the last time they ever saw each other face-to-face" brings intrigue to whoever is watching, leaving you thinking why or how that is. My belief is that Muhammad is still alive within the story, whether that's luck or the predictions he mentioned in episode 1.
メイン筋やしSitaraがMuhammadと再会せんのは変やろ。画面外死亡は信じたらアカン。Muhammad生きてると思うわ。2ちゃん
Shahars71
last time they ever saw each other could also mean that he completely fled the conflict. His view of knowledge from the first episode was about how you can use it to predict the future, so who knows where he is in the world right now.
二人が最後に会った=彼が争いから完全に逃げた、とも考察できる。1話で知識を“未来予測”と見てたし、今どこにいるか分からない。考察くん
Sailorgirl200
Wait that’s actually a great idea. The brutality of episode 2 made me forgot his speech about being prepared 😭
待ってそれ普通に名案やん。2話がエグすぎて、あいつの「覚悟しろ」って話忘れてたわ😭2ちゃん
Se7en_Sinner
I haven't been this terrified of the Mongols since my first playthrough of Crusader Kings III.
Crusader Kings IIIの初プレイ以来、モンゴルにここまでビビったの久々だわ。普通くん
SSjjlex
It is easy to become comfortable with the enemy you know, our familiar foes. But to discount the menaces that lurk beyond the known world is to risk a rude awakening that can become a nightmare. This nightmare is the Mongol invasion.
既知の敵には慣れるが、未知の脅威を軽視すれば悪夢の目覚めを招く。その悪夢こそ、モンゴル侵攻という考察ができる。考察くん
DugACCat
Haha I just had written the thought of this game before I saw you posted this. I never did well against them. Had to rely on auto-resolve.
笑、君の投稿見る前にちょうどこのゲームのこと書いてたわ。あいつら相手は苦手で、オート解決頼みだった。普通くん
CitronClassic672
Funnily enough Medieval 2 also has the Timurids as a late game boss and they’re even more broken than the mongols.
笑うけどMedieval 2でもTimuridsが終盤ボスで、Mongolsよりさらに壊れ性能なのヤバすぎるッ!感情くん
CavulusDeCavulei
Artillery Elephants...
大砲ゾウとか、やば…ギャル
DugACCat
For me it was the various older Total War games that included them. They were quite terrifying. Think that was maybe Medieval II I’m thinking of in particular.
自分は昔のTotal Warシリーズで見たのが印象的だった。かなり怖かったね。特にMedieval IIだったと思う。普通くん
SSjjlex
I think Medieval 2 is the only one with the mongols. The red aesthetic, horse archers, and throat singing made me want to link a Total War Atilla 's menu music, but those are Huns, in Europe, and takes place like 800 years before this lol
モンゴルが出るのはMedieval 2だけだと思う。赤基調、騎馬弓兵、ホーミーからTotal War Atillaの曲を連想したけど、あれは欧州のフン族で800年前なんだよなw考察くん
DugACCat
That’s right. I was also thinking of Attila. (Though I didn’t play that one as much as I should have.)
せやな。ワイもAttila思い浮かべてたわ。まああれ、もっとやっとくべきやったけど。2ちゃん
mujhe-sona-hai
The creator of that music said he was inspired by Mongols. That's why he included Mongolian khoomii in it.
その曲の作者、モンゴルに影響を受けたって言ってた。だからモンゴルのホーミーを入れたんだね。普通くん
CitronClassic672
Tbf, from what we know of the ethnography of the Huns they did have some overlap with the mongols. Being from the western steppe vs the mongols raster steppe.
確かに、フン族の民族誌を見る限りモンゴルと重なる部分はあるよね。西のステップと東側ステップの違いはあるけど…感情くん
Necessary-Hunter1060
No first Shogun total war has Mongols.
いや、初代Shogun: Total WarにはMongolsがいるよ。普通くん
Oden_sama__
john green always warned me about the Mongols. i know why now
John Greenがずっとモンゴルに気をつけろ言うてた理由、今わかったわ草2ちゃん
scythianscion
Aren't they great? Just monstrous beyond anything before or since. Listen to the Wrath of Khans podcast episodes by Dan Carlin if you want to really get a feel for the horror, it should be on youtube. Burn down a city with 2 million people in it? Tuesday for the Mongols.
すごいよね?前後の時代と比べても怪物級。恐ろしさを知るならDan CarlinのWrath of Khans聞いて。200万人の都市を焼くのもMongolsには日常。普通くん
Tenatlas__2004
Great isn't the word I would use for someone who murdered 2 million people
200万人殺した奴に「偉大」はないやろ…2ちゃん
Nickbon94
My man I didn't know anything about this and it's been the most unbearably sad thing I could watch Very beautiful anime I'll be here next week 👍
いやまじ何も知らずに見たら、耐えられないくらい悲しいんだけど…でも超美しいアニメじゃん。来週もいるわ👍ギャル
ThrowCarp
Seriously criend whem the mum was murdered. She well and truly cared about Sutara.
母親が殺されたときマジで泣いた。彼女は本当にSutaraのことを大切に思ってたんだね。普通くん
thisisdropd
原文
Bloody hell! Who’d thought a shoujo anime would have such a high body count. My eyes went wide when Fatima lunged in front of Sitara. While Sitara was technically Fatima’s slave, she’s treated well and Fatima’s dying words were a warning to the nomads to not touch her daughter . Heartwarming and tragic at the same time. Then it got from bad to worse. Pretty brutal to juxtapose Tun before and after it was razed. That’s before the nomads executed people left and right. Sitara lost her closest friends one by one. Little wonder she’s suicidal by the end of the episode.
マジかよ!少女漫画でこんな死亡者数が出るとはな。ファティマがシターラを庇った瞬間、目を見開いたわ。奴隷とはいえ大切に扱われ、死に際にも娘を守る言葉…感動的かつ悲劇的だ。トゥンの破壊前後の対比が残酷で、シターラが親友を次々失っていく展開を踏まえると、終盤に絶望するのも当然だと思われる。考察くん
moichispa
Get into historical shoujos and you will be not so surprised
歴史系少女漫画にハマれば、もうそんな驚かなくなるって…!感情くん
Golden_Phi
The last one I watched was Rose of Versailles. So yeah, that checks out.
最後に見たのはRose of Versaillesだった。まあ、納得だね。普通くん
ErikTwice
原文
Bloody hell! Who’d thought a shoujo anime would have such a high body count. Haha, dude! Who told you that? Because you are being fooled! Shoujo is not averse to violence at all. Series like X , Banana Fish or Alice in Murderland are trasgressive and bloody. You only see them less because they get fewer adaptations and they are more likely to be censored. After all, women love horror, murder mysteries and gothic stories, why wouldn't works aimed at them have high body counts? Regardless, Jaadugar is Josei. And given what Josei is and used to be like, a bit of blood is the last thing it would be scared of
少女漫画=穏やかという前提が誤認。XやBanana Fishみたいに血生臭い作品もあるし、JaadugarはJosei。血くらい怖がるジャンルじゃない。考察くん