#8幼女戦記Ⅱ
放送 2026-08-26更新 2026-08-31
cleaulem
Serebryakova's sigh when Tanya took her chocolate was the most emotional moment in this episode, if not the whole season.
セレブリャコワがチョコ取られた時のため息、やばくない!?今エピどころか今期で一番エモい瞬間だったんだけど!!ギャル
Niwaka_Samurai
Everyone's after her chocolates lol But I wonder how she always has a secret stash.
みんな彼女のチョコを狙ってる(笑)でもいつも隠し持ってるのが不思議だよね。普通くん
Tacitus_
Every top aide has to be excellent at scrounging supplies. She's also an excellent gambler so she could be cleaning out the other troops of their care packages.
「全くもう、側近ってのは物資調達の天才じゃないと務まらないんだよな。しかもこの人、賭けの腕前も超一流だから、他の部隊の慰問品を根こそぎ巻き上げてる可能性あるぞ。無理、強すぎるッ!」感情くん
OldInstruction5368
Didn't we learn a couple episodes ago that Visha has the Devil's own luck when it comes to cards? She cleaned everyone out for a huge bounty of booze and other supplies. I wouldn't be surprised if she keeps fleecing people for their chocolate rations over Poker or w/e games of chance they play.
数話前にビシャがカード運に関しては悪魔的な強運を持つと学んだよな?彼女は大量の酒や物資を賭けて皆を一掃したんだ。今もポーカーや他の賭け事でチョコレート配給を搾取し続けても驚かないな。このキャラの設定、実は伏線として機能してると思われる。考察くん
Practical_Ad_818
I don't know germans but during word wars soldiers would have chocolate as emergency rations(since chocolate is highly nutritios) .
ワイはドイツ語わからんけど、戦時中の兵士はチョコを非常食にしてたらしいで。栄養価高いからな。2ちゃん
Hot-Log6283
I recall seeing something like the Allies also carried chocolate as they were handing them out to kids once a town was liberated (Band of Brothers maybe?).
連合軍も解放した町で子供たちにチョコを配ってたって話を見たことあるな(バンド・オブ・ブラザーズだったかな?)普通くん
Practical_Ad_818
This ration chocolates made taste bad by design (so soldiers don't eat them unless no other option) so i am not sure if they would give them to childeren or bring real chocolate for childeren after liberation.
この配給チョコレートは、他の選択肢がない時以外は兵士が食べないよう、わざと不味く作られているんだよな。だから、解放後に子供たちに配る際、そのまま渡すのか、それとも本物のチョコレートを持ってくるのかは微妙なラインだと思う。考察くん
Hot-Log6283
Maybe kids who never had chocolate before think they taste good:
チョコレートを食べたことない子供は、それが美味しいと思っちゃうのかもね。普通くん
NoNameSwitzerland
And we had something called Panzerschokolade (tank chocolate) what contained Methamphetamine.
やばくね!?パンツァーショコラってやつ、まじでメタンフェタミン入ってたんだって!!やばすぎじゃね?笑ギャル
snarkamedes
I've seen a couple of Strike Witches episodes and one of the pseudo-German witches appeared to be entirely powered by chocolate.
ストライクウィッチーズを数話見たんだけど、ドイツ風の魔女の一人が完全にチョコレートで動いてるように見えたんだよね。普通くん
Panophobia_senpai
Simple, the supplies they get SOMEHOW do not have chocolate, when distributed.
配給品にチョコが入ってないのが謎だわwまじでどうなってんだよ草wwwおじ
Emi_Ibarazakiii
You dare question my plan? That's Minus 1 chocolate for you
俺の計画に異論を唱えるとは?お前はチョコレート1個減だな普通くん
cleaulem
Sad Serebryakova noises
サド・セレブリャコワの音……しんどすぎるッ!感情くん
ShadowGuyinRealLife
Don't worry, it would get ruined by the sea water so it's better Tanya enjoys some nice chocolate instead of Viktoriya I Serebryakova trying to nom on a soaked chocolate piece she tried to save.
安心していいよ、海水で台無しになるからさ。ヴィクトーリア・イヴァノヴナ・セレブリャコワが濡れたチョコを必死に守ろうとするより、ターニャが美味しいチョコを楽しむ方がいいと思うんだ。普通くん
15000yuki
Bold of you to assume Visha will not eat chocholate corrupted by salt water.
よくもまあ、ヴィーシャが塩水に浸されたチョコを食らわぬと申すか。その思い込み、実に無謀でござるな。武士
Hot-Log6283
Sea salt chocolate is a thing you know.
海塩チョコレートって実際にあるんだよ、知ってる?普通くん
NevisYsbryd
Other people disobey orders: put in the artillery target bunker, thrown through a wall and threatened at gunpoint Serebryakova disobeys orders: eats her chocolate bar in front of her Tanya really does appreiciate her!
他のやつが命令無視したら:砲撃目標の掩体壕に放り込まれて壁ぶち抜かれて銃突きつけられる
セレブリャコワが命令無視したら:ターニャの目の前でチョコバー食うだけ
ターニャガチでこいつは評価してるンゴwww2ちゃん
Granito_Rey
First Zettour, now Tanya. When will the chocolate thievery end?
我が目の前で、ゼートゥアーに続きターニャまでもが……チョコレート強奪の魔の手は、いつまで続くというのか。この世の因果は、まさに混沌の渦に飲まれようとしているのだ。中二病
snarkamedes
Victoriya has experienced the full horrors of war firsthand by now. The suffering, the death, the destruction, the administratum, the endless poetry... and both the having and loss of your personal choc stash.
ヴィクトーリアは今や戦争の恐怖をその身で経験している。苦しみ、死、破壊、行政機構、そして終わりなき詩…それに個人用チョコ備蓄の獲得と喪失の両方まで。この描写から、彼女が戦場で直面した現実の全容が伝わってくるな。まさに「幼女戦記」の世界観を象徴する一コマだと思う。考察くん
rollin340
She learned that move from her boss who took from Grantz. lol
彼女は、グランツから奪った上司からその技を学んだんだな。笑普通くん
y3kman
Tanya's going to drag not-Italy in the war with her entrance at the end. Get trolled, fence sitters.
ターニャが最後の登場でイタリアも戦争に引きずり込むつもりだぞ。日和見勢はざまあみろって感じだッ!感情くん
Emi_Ibarazakiii
"That "neutral" country is allowing Alphonse Hibler to pass through!"
あの中立国、アルフォンス・ヒブラーを通しちゃってるじゃん!普通くん
mmcjawa_reborn
Can't help but think this could backfire horribly on the Empire...they are not in a position where they can afford another country growing hostile with them.
帝国に跳ね返りそうで怖いンゴ……今の帝国に敵国増やす余裕ないやろ2ちゃん
discuss-not-concuss
the country would have to convince others they aren’t allies first, which would be difficult after Tanya’s arrival the Empire wanting to teach them a lesson is also kinda ominous, it’s a lose-lose for not-Italy in the short term
国はまず他国に「同盟国じゃない」と信じさせないといけないけど、ターニャが来た後じゃそれも難しいだろうな。帝国が「教訓を与えたい」って言ってるのもなんか不気味だし、短期で見るとイタリアじゃない国はどっちに転んでも損だよね。普通くん
BosuW
But on the long-term, it would be quite easy to convince them they aren't allies by declaring war and launching an attack. Shit other countries can already see how lukewarm Ildoa is about the Empire anyway.
長期的に見れば、宣戦布告して攻撃すれば同盟国じゃないって簡単に分からせられるやろ。つーか他国から見てもIldoaが帝国に対して生ぬるいのはバレバレやしな。2ちゃん
saga999
But on the long-term, it would be quite easy to convince them they aren't allies by declaring war and launching an attack. They wouldn't do that because then they'd be in a war.
長期的に見れば、宣戦布告して攻撃すれば彼らが味方じゃないって納得させるのは簡単だと思うけどね。でもそうしたら戦争に突入することになるから、彼らはやらないだろうな。普通くん
justking1414
True though the empire has shown how…unforgiving they can be. If not Italy suddenly attacked them, the empire would make burning their capital to the ground, their highest priority
確かに帝国は容赦ないところを見せてきたな。もしイタリアが急襲してこなければ、帝国は首都を灰にするのを最優先にしただろうな。ドライおじ
Emi_Ibarazakiii
They performed a massive show of naval strength right in front of them though, so Ildoa would have to really think it through if they consider turning their cloak! They would put a huge target on their back.
でも彼らの目の前で大規模な海軍力を見せつけたからな、イリドアが裏切るなら相当考え込むだろうな!大きな標的を背負うことになるし。普通くん
BosuW
I dunno about WW1, but Italian Navy was actually pretty capable in WW2. Depending on what the series pulls from history, they could be a major pain in the ass in the Mediterranean.
WW1は知らねえけど、WW2のイタリア海軍はマジで有能だったぞw シリーズが歴史から何引っ張ってくるか次第だけど、地中海でマジで厄介な敵になりそうだなwwwwおじ
Internal_Piccolo_931
It was a magnificent navy ship-wise, but battle-wise they were an utter embarrassment.
艦隊としては壮観だったけど、戦闘面では完全に恥晒しだったな。無理すぎるッ!感情くん
Any-Calligrapher2866
It'll backfire but in a different way. Italy will join the war and have a big brain moment.
裏目に出るやろな、ただ違う形でな。イタリアが参戦して大天才ムーブかますンゴwww2ちゃん
DandadanAsia
those pasta eating fuckers
あのパスタ食ってる連中、マジでクソだな普通くん
NevisYsbryd
While it is likely going to backfire, the thing here is that this was not fence-sitting or playing neutral. This was decidely screwing over the Empire by knowingly forcing them into an enemy killzone. This was a betrayal of their 'alliance,' full stop. Like, if the Empire were in better straits-cities and even countries have been wiped out for this sort of behavior, historically.
ワイ的にはこれは確実に逆効果やろな。ただ、これは中立でも傍観でもなかった。帝国を敵の殺戮地帯に突き飛ばすって分かっててやった行為や。完全に「同盟」への裏切りやで。歴史的にも都市や国が消し飛んだレベルの暴挙やしな。2ちゃん
CarCrafty9473
I'm starting to think Being X really isn't as involved as Tanya thinks in a lot of situations. Too many times she gets cocky/arrogant and becomes her own downfall. Like coming up with the plan to put mages in torpedos, acting as if the best mage unit in all of the Empire, i.e. her squad, wouldn't be used for this plan
Being Xって、ターニャが考えてるほど実は関わってないんじゃないかなって思えてきた。何度も彼女が調子に乗って自滅してるし。魚雷に魔導師を乗せる作戦とか、帝国最強の魔導師部隊、つまり自分の小隊がその作戦に使われないなんて思ってる時点で傲慢だよね。普通くん
throwawayurwaste
The majority of Tanya's problems are the same from their last life. She focuses way too much on logic and fails to account for human emotion. The past 6 episodes in the USSR was mistake after mistake of not understanding people are emotional beings
ターニャの問題の大半は、前世と変わってないな。論理にこだわりすぎて、人間の感情を考慮しない。ソ連編の6話も、人が感情で動くって理解してないから、ミスを重ねたんだろうな。ドライおじ
discuss-not-concuss
that wasn’t Tanya’s fault, you can’t blame her for “misinterpreting” biased bordering on falsified reports by the Empire soldiers on the contrary, it was Tanya sitting in on the interrogation with the help of Visha’s translation where she discovered that bias existed in the reports
あれはターニャのせいじゃないよ。帝国兵の偏った、ほぼ捏造に近い報告書を「誤解した」って責めるのはおかしいし。むしろ、ターニャがヴィーシャの通訳で尋問に同席して、報告書にバイアスがあるのを見抜いたんだからね。普通くん
throwawayurwaste
Wasn't it visha who both uncovered the falsified testimonials and lead the interrogation that revealed they were just defending their homes. Even during that scene Tanya says how she completely missed it because of how much she hates the commie's since her last life. And that's not even getting into the issues with the peace deal
ヴィーシャが偽証言を暴き、彼らがただ故郷を守っていただけだと明かした尋問を主導したのは彼女じゃなかったか?あの場面でもターニャは前世の共産主義者への憎悪ゆえに完全に見落としていたと述べている。和平協定の問題点に至っては言うまでもない。考察くん
discuss-not-concuss
原文
not downplaying Visha’s role here, but you are forgetting she led that particular interrogation because of Tanya and Tanya looking like a child being a child Tanya claiming she completely missed it is her thinking she’s above propaganda and misinformation. But she isn’t and realistically, no one is. the timeframe isn’t that long either since it was winter when Rerugen’s battalion captured strategic targets, winter when she found out and winter when the not-Italy’s commander visited
ヴィーシャの役割を軽視するわけじゃないけど、あの尋問を主導したのはターニャのおかげで、ターニャが子供の見た目で子供らしく振る舞ったからだってのを忘れてる気がする。ターニャが「全く気づかなかった」って言うのは、自分はプロパガンダや誤情報の上に立ってると思い込んでるからだよ。でも実際はそうじゃないし、現実的に誰もそうじゃない。タイムラインもそんなに長くないし、レルゲン大隊が戦略目標を確保したのは冬、ターニャが知ったのも冬、そしてイタリアではない国の司令官が訪れたのも冬だったんだ。普通くん
fer_sure
原文
how much she hates the commie's since her last life. Is it ever explained why a random 21st century Japanese salaryman has such a virulent hatred of Communism? I can see pre-isekai him having deep philosophical differences, but it seems personal. Given his apparent age and year of death, he'd barely have lived through any part of the Cold War, and most overt Japanese conflicts with the USSR and Russia were several decades before he would have been born.
前世からの共産主義への憎悪が尋常じゃないよな。なぜ21世紀の日本のサラリーマンがそこまで激しい嫌悪感を持ってるのか、作中で説明されたっけ?転生前の彼が哲学的な思想の違いを抱えてたのは理解できるが、なんか個人的な恨みみたいに感じる。彼の年齢と死亡年からすると、冷戦期をほぼ経験してないはずだし、日本とソ連・ロシアの顕著な対立も彼が生まれる数十年前のことだ。この辺の背景がもっと掘り下げられてたら、キャラの動機がより深く理解できたのにな。考察くん
BosuW
原文
I don't know what the average Japanese thinks of Communists. But the Salaryman specifically was ideologically a capitalist who believes in free commerce and individualism. Already that puts him diametrically opposed to communists on economic and governance matters. Add to that his interest in history which would have had him come across the absurdly massive and massively absurd communist massacres, abuses, man made catastrophes... In all honestly there is little reason for anyone who investigates the history of Communism to feel any warmth towards them, regardless of personal opinion. They have easily been some of the most evil regimes in history. It's akin to asking why would you hate Nazis.
一般的な日本人が共産主義者をどう思うかは知らないけど、サラリーマンは特に自由商業と個人主義を信じる資本主義者だったからな。経済や統治の面で共産主義者とは真逆だよね。さらに歴史に興味があったから、共産主義の大虐殺や人為的災害の記録に触れてたはずだし。正直、共産主義の歴史を調べた人なら誰でも嫌悪感を持つのは当然だと思うよ。意見はどうあれ、歴史上最悪の体制の一つだったのは間違いないし。ナチスを嫌う理由を聞くようなものだな。普通くん
0mnicious
原文
In all honestly there is little reason for anyone who investigates the history of Communism to feel any warmth towards them, regardless of personal opinion. They have easily been some of the most evil regimes in history. It's akin to asking why would you hate Nazis. That ain't really fair since you'd need to account for all of the US's meddling and fucking around that they did to influence and outright force a lot of the absurdities that happened in Communist countries. If you truly care about history you can't ignore that extremely important part.
正直言うと、共産主義の歴史を調べた奴なら誰でも彼らに好感なんて持てないやろ。個人の意見はともかく、歴史上最悪級の政権だったのは間違いないしな。ナチスを憎む理由を聞くようなもんや。
ただ、それはフェアちゃうで。アメリカがめちゃくちゃ干渉して、共産圏のアホみたいな出来事の多くを引き起こしたり強要したって事実も考慮せなあかん。本当に歴史を大事にするなら、その超重要な部分を無視できへんやろ。2ちゃん
BosuW
Even if a whole 2/3rds of Communist disasters were US fault that still leaves far too many corpses for me to be sympathetic to the regimes.
たとえ共産主義政権の災害の3分の2がアメリカのせいだとしても、残りの犠牲者の数は多すぎて、その体制に同情的になれる気がしないな。普通くん
0mnicious
that still leaves far too many corpses for me to be sympathetic to the regimes. Fair. Let me ask you an honest question, though. Are you sympathetic to capitalism? If so, do you know the death toll that capitalism has on its hands?
せやな、それでも犠牲者多すぎて政権には同情できんわ。まあ正直聞くけど、お前は資本主義に共感してるんか?もしそうなら、資本主義が生み出した死者数って知っとるんか?2ちゃん
BosuW
Of course (to the second question), who do you take me for? What do you jump to that accusatory tone immediately? (And don't pretend it isn't)
もちろん(2つ目の質問に対して)、俺を誰だと思ってるんだ?なんでいきなりそんな責めるような口調になるんだよ?(そうじゃないって言うつもりなら、それは無理があるだろ)普通くん
mujhe-sona-hai
Mao killed more Chinese in 3 years than the Japanese did in 8. Communists killed more of their fellow countrymen than their enemies ever dreamed of. And what, are you gonna blame Mao and Stalin's famines on the US?
毛沢東が3年間で殺した中国人は、日本軍が8年間で殺した数を上回る。共産主義者たちは、敵が夢にも思わなかったほど多くの同胞を殺した。そして、毛沢東やスターリンの飢饉をアメリカのせいにするつもりか?考察くん
0mnicious
原文
And what, are you gonna blame Mao and Stalin's famines on the US? No, not at all, but to ignore the influence the US had is disingenuous at best and outright propagandist at worst. I know more about the USSR situation and while it did spout out a lot of communist stuff at the end of the day it just devolved into a social imperial state. A communist state cannot be an imperial one. From it's very inception the USSR wasn't really a communist state. Calling it a communist nation and blaming communism and communists for what happened is pretty much spouting propaganda without studying and learning wtf happened. Also don't forget that there can be shit people that are communists, and there are loads, just like there are shit people that are capitalists, there are loads here too. Now on Mao's side I have to admit that I'm much more ignorant about it. I just know the gist of it and what the typical American talking points are, but honestly that's the same as having a geo political conversation in a pub full of drunkards so I'll refrain on touching this particular topic.
ワイらが毛沢東やスターリンの飢饉を米国のせいにするってか?んなわけないやろ。でも米国の影響を無視するのは、甘く見ても不誠実、悪く言えば完全にプロパガンダやで。ワイはソ連の事情は詳しいんやが、あいつらは共産主義の言葉を並べてたけど、結局は社会帝国主義国家に成り下がったんや。共産主義国家が帝国主義になるわけないやろ。ソ連は最初から真の共産主義国家やなかったんやで。それを「共産主義国家」と呼んで、共産主義や共産主義者のせいにするのは、歴史をちゃんと学ばずにプロパガンダを垂れ流してるのと一緒や。それに、クズな共産主義者もいれば、クズな資本家もいっぱいおるんやで。毛沢東の方については、ワイも正直詳しくないわ。大まかな流れと、典型的なアメリカの決まり文句しか知らんけど、正直そんなもんは酔っ払いのたむろするパブで地政学談義するのと同じやから、この話題には触れんとくで。2ちゃん
mujhe-sona-hai
Bro pulled out the “not real communism” lmao
「実際の共産主義じゃない」って持ち出すやつwww 笑うわ
※元コメントの皮肉・嘲笑のニュアンスを保ちつつ、軽いツッコミ調でまとめました。感情くん
CavulusDeCavulei
原文
I really love to read history and I feel much warmth for communists. Not for the bastards on the top, but for the common people and the great victiories of unions (and the great sacrificies they did). They are also the reason why most of the world have universal healthcare, women's rights, and many many other things we take for granted today. In my country (Italy) they fought really fiercely to give us a better life, and they were very distant from the soviet version of communism. Not saying this because I think that you are wrong in your opinion, just to say that it is not an universal feeling Edit: downvoted after saying an opinion in a cordial way, lol
ワイ歴史読むの好きやねん。共産主義者にはめっちゃ温かみ感じるわ。上にいるクソ野郎じゃなくて、一般人の連中と労働組合の偉大な勝利(と彼らが払った多大な犠牲)にな。今の世界の大半が国民皆保険や女性の権利、当たり前と思ってるもんの多くは彼らのおかげやで。イタリアではマジで激しく戦ってより良い生活をくれたんや。ソ連型の共産主義とは全然別物やったしな。お前の意見が間違いやとは言わへんけど、これが普遍的な感情やないってだけ言いたかったんやで。編集:丁寧に意見述べただけでDVされたわ、草www2ちゃん
mujhe-sona-hai
And in my country they shot my grandparents relatives for being class enemies
うちの国じゃ、祖父母の親戚が「階級の敵」って理由で銃殺されたんだよ。普通くん
mujhe-sona-hai
Try coming to Poland saying the same shit
ポーランドで同じこと言ってみろや草2ちゃん
CavulusDeCavulei
What will you do, shoot me?
何するつもりだ、撃つのか?普通くん
BosuW
原文
Just to be clear I didn't downvote you. I think that's a fair opinion. I would only question how fundamentally these smaller groups really were from the ones that were successful, if they would be any different had they taken power. Of course, that's just a hypothetical, so we'll never know for sure. But in general I'd excercise a degree of skepticism. Even the USSR had it's good points. Didn't stop it from being what it was.
明確にしておくが、俺は君にダウンボートしてないぞ。公平な意見だと思う。ただ、これらの小規模グループが成功した連中と根本的にどれほど違ったのかは疑問視したいところだ。仮に彼らが権力を握っていたとして、果たして変わっていただろうか?もちろん、これは単なる仮定の話で、確かめる術は永遠にない。だが、一般的に言って、ある程度の懐疑心は持つべきだという考察ができる。ソ連にも良い点はあったが、それがソ連の本質を変えたわけじゃないからな。考察くん
JustRedditTh
Not sure about this here specifically, but historically, Japan is not on the best terms with Russia (Russia still holds Islands that are historically northern Japan, and Japan tells them at every opportunity given to shut their trap and give them back... Maybe once the Ukraine War ends, Japans and Chinas borders move up a bit more north again?)
この件について具体的には分からないけど、歴史的に日本とロシアはあまり仲良くないよね(ロシアは今も北方領土を占領してるし、日本は機会あるごとに返せって言ってるじゃん…もしかしたらウクライナ戦争が終わったら、日本と中国の国境がもう少し北に動くかもしれないね?)普通くん
IronVader501
原文
The Salaryman had a set of absolutely non-negotiable beliefs: Personal freedoms are the highest ideal A capitalist economy is the best system The government should regulate society and the markets to keep things stable, but it was also the duty of every citizen to exploit those laws for personal advantage and loopholes as much as possible. Any ideology that breaks one of those is an absolute no-go for the Salaryman.
サラリーマンは絶対に譲れない信念を持っていた:個人の自由は最高の理想であり、資本主義経済が最善のシステムである。政府は社会と市場を規制して安定を保つべきだが、同時に全ての市民はその法律を個人的な利益や抜け穴のために最大限利用する義務がある。このいずれかを破るイデオロギーは、サラリーマンにとって完全に受け入れ不可能だという考察ができる。考察くん
mujhe-sona-hai
原文
The PRC always threatens to invade Taiwan and has disputes with Japan over the Senkaku/Diaoyu islands. China is absolutely the biggest threat to Japan and they're communists so Japanese tend to view Communists as Chinese agents. Couple that with the fact that he's a salaryman through and through who'd have a very neoliberal capitalist view and the communism of this era produced nothing but massacres and genocides.
中国は常に台湾侵攻を脅かし、尖閣諸島をめぐって日本と対立している。中国は間違いなく日本にとって最大の脅威で、しかも共産主義者だから、日本人は共産主義者を中国の工作員と見なす傾向がある。さらに彼は生粋のサラリーマンで、新自由主義的な資本主義観を持つだろう。この時代の共産主義は虐殺と大量殺戮しか生み出していない。普通くん
NevisYsbryd
原文
Implicitly, at least in the anime. Tanya mentioned stuff like 'Chicago school of economics' and 'free market principles.' Tanya's ethics are clearly adherant towards libertarian philosophy, which tends to correlate very strongly with individualism and thinking private property, laissez-faire economics, and individual rights are the basis of a well-functioning society and even ethics. Tanya's animosity towards them is probably actually quite similar to their rejection of Being X-that of a violent, aggressive tyrant. The various libertarian types who advocate for that kind of economic system tend to think of communism as the far opposite extreme of the political compass from themselves, and both often consider the other evil.
少なくともアニメでは暗黙的に、ターニャは「シカゴ学派」や「自由市場原理」といった概念に言及していた。彼女の倫理観は明らかにリバタリアニズム哲学に沿っており、それは個人主義や私有財産、自由放任経済、個人の権利を健全な社会や倫理の基盤とみなす傾向と強く相関している。彼女がそれら(敵対する存在)に対して抱く反感は、実はBeing Xへの拒絶と非常に似ている——暴力的で攻撃的な暴君への拒絶だ。そうした経済システムを擁護する様々なリバタリアンは、共産主義を政治スペクトル上で自分たちとは正反対の極端なものとみなし、双方が互いを悪と見なすことが多い。考察くん
eoz
Long term it was entirely her fault. Harassing the USSR capital so they'd pull back was a good plan. Utterly humiliating them so that there's not a chance in hell that they'd negotiate peace... Less so
長期的に見れば、全部彼女のせいだよ。ソ連の首都を攻めて撤退させるのは良い作戦だった。でも、交渉による和平なんて絶対にあり得ないほど徹底的に屈辱を与えたのは……やりすぎだったな。普通くん
discuss-not-concuss
“She did A, so she’s also responsible for B” yeah, no. The soldier being interrogated wasn’t fighting to kill Tanya, and neither were the harassers. If it was personal, they wouldn’t have accepted the deal with General Staff.
「AやったからBの責任もあるやろ」って、いやいや違うやろ。尋問されてた兵士はターニャを殺す気で戦ってたわけちゃうし、嫌がらせしてた連中もそうや。もし個人的な恨みやったら、参謀本部との取引なんて受けるわけないやん。2ちゃん
080087
The other half of her problems come directly from her big mouth. It's how she got punished by Being X in the first place. Also how she ended up doing half of the suicidal missions as part of the 203rd, also how she ended up leading Salamander Group, the V2 thing etc Quite a few times, if she just shut up she probably would have stayed in the backlines.
彼女の問題の残り半分は、まさにその大口が原因だよね。そもそもビーイングXに罰せられたのもそれだし、第203航空魔導大隊で自殺級任務の半分をやることになったのも、サラマンダー隊を率いることになったのも、V2の件も全部それ。何度か黙ってれば、後方に残れてたかもしれないのにな。普通くん
Emi_Ibarazakiii
I'm starting to think Being X really isn't as involved as Tanya thinks in a lot of situations. Tanya finally dies, and gets to meet Being X in the afterlife "Well, you won; Your impossible schemes finally got me, you piece of shit" "I'm sorry, who are you again? Anyway, please state your name and briefly tell me about your good and evil deeds"
Being Xがターニャが思うほど多くの状況に関与していないという考察は興味深い。ついにターニャが死に、あの世でBeing Xと対面する場面——「よくやった。お前の不可能な策略にようやく俺が敗れたわけだ、クソ野郎」→「ああ、すみません、どちら様でしたっけ? とにかく、お名前と善悪の行いを簡潔にどうぞ」——この流れは、Being Xの全能性への疑念を強調しているように思える。ターニャの視点が歪んでいる可能性も踏まえると、この会話は彼女の認識と神の実態の乖離を描いた伏線とも読める。考察くん
Carleen_de_Schwartz
If not for Being X showing himself to her on a semi regular basis or did not literally curse her jewel to require prayer to activate i would totally believe this but alas. He really is a petty mf
ふむ…もし存在Xが半ば定期的に姿を現し、宝石に祈りを捧げねば発動せぬ呪いを掛けねば、拙者もその言葉を信じたであろう。されど残念、奴は実に小物でござるな。武士
NevisYsbryd
Tanya shoots themselves in the foot more frequently than X sets them up, but X really is out to get them personally.
ターニャってXにハメられるより自分で自分の足撃つこと多いんだけど、Xはまじで個人的に狙ってきてるんだよね!やばくね?笑ギャル
snarkamedes
"What guarantee is there that we won't be caught up in the blast?" I thought she was going to shoot him dead there and then when he said, "That's up to the lord." Very interesting noise she made.
「爆発に巻き込まれない保証はどこにある?」って彼が言った時、彼女がその場で即撃ち殺すかと思ったわ。彼が「それは主の御心次第だ」って言った時の、彼女のあの面白い声が最高すぎるッ!感情くん
Greg_The_Rabbit
Yea, my entire thought when she's talking about how the V-2 was all Being-X's plan was "Tanya... You gave him the idea. This is totally your own damn fault. You should absolutely know by now that if you suggest a plan only mages can do, it will be your unit first on the chopping block!"
彼女がV-2計画をBeing-Xの陰謀だと言った時、俺の頭の中は「ターニャ……お前がそのアイデアを出したんだろ。これ完全にお前の自業自得だぞ。魔導士にしかできない作戦を提案したら、真っ先に自分の部隊が切り札にされるって、もう分かってるはずだろ!」って感じだったな。考察くん
NevisYsbryd
I think its interventions are actually in the single digits. While it did knock over a few keystone dominos, most of it is humanity taking its own course afterwards, and Tanya occassionally screwing themselves over.
介入は実際には一桁台だと思うよ。いくつかの重要なドミノを倒したけど、その後はほとんど人類が自分たちの道を進んでるだけじゃないかな。ターニャがたまに自滅してるしね。普通くん
Lodju
Dr. Schugel is probably the only person that can scare Tanya, clearly a PTSD. And once again something Tanya said comes back to bite her in the ass.
シューゲル博士はターニャが怖がる唯一の人物だろ、完全にPTSDだわ。しかもまたターニャの発言が自分に跳ね返ってきてるし。無理すぎるッ!感情くん
fer_sure
And once again something Tanya said comes back to bite her in the ass I'm just waiting for Tanya to accidentally mention that splitting atomic bonds might make a really big boom. ☢️💥
またターニャの発言が自分に返ってきて爆発してるじゃん!笑 まじでターニャがうっかり「原子結合を分解したら超でかい爆発するかも〜」とか言っちゃうの待ってるんだけど☢️💥 やばくね!?ギャル
Kill-bray
But it turns out that with their current technology it's impossible so they need a mage to help with the fission procedure up close.
でも、今の技術じゃそれが不可能だから、核分裂の手順を近くで手伝える魔導師が必要ってことみたいだね。普通くん
CIearMind
LMFAO and of course it'll be on them to dip at the last second
あははは笑 てかまじで最後の最後で逃げるってわかってるじゃん!やばくね!?笑ギャル
Gryse_Blacolar
I'm surprised she hasn't recommended that as the Empire's super weapon yet given that she has knowledge from her original world. But it's bound to be M.A.D (Mutually Assured Destruction) when they bring atomic power in that world and start nuclear war. Everyone will be a loser. 😅
彼女が元の世界の知識を持ってるなら、帝国の超兵器としてそれをまだ提案してないのが不思議だな。でも、あの世界で原子力を持ち込んで核戦争が始まったら、確実に相互確証破壊(M.A.D)になるだろうね。全員が敗者になるって。😅普通くん
BosuW
Dr. Schügel puts the fear of God on Tanya. The only person and only thing who can do it. Shit he's an even better investment for Being X than Mary.
シューゲル博士、ターニャにマジでビビらせるじゃん!彼女にそれができる唯一の人間だよ。てかBeing Xにとってメアリーより全然いい投資なんじゃない?やばくね!?ギャル
Emi_Ibarazakiii
Dr. Schugel is probably the only person that can scare Tanya, The only person? Probably... But a nutcracker?
シューゲル博士はおそらくターニャを怖がらせることができる唯一の人物だね。唯一?たぶんな…でもくるみ割り人形は?普通くん
Lodju
Nutcracker makes her mad, not scared.
ナッツクラッカー相手にビビるわけないッ!むしろ逆上してるんだよ!!感情くん
Meander061
She'll put a bullet into the Nutcracker. She's not allowed to hurt that lunatic doctor.
ナッツクラッカーに銃弾をぶち込むんだろうな。あの狂った医者には手を出せないけどね。普通くん
NevisYsbryd
原文
Yeah, this was a case of it clearly being Tanya screwing herself over. I think the number of interventions X has made is probably actually in the single-digits; most of it is Tanya's and humans' own doing, even if the few interventions X made were very drastic. Not only PTSD, Tanya knows that she is still subject to his insanity. Someone being deranged is one thing, them being deranged and you being forced to follow their derangement is wholly another.
これは明らかにターニャ自身が自滅したケースだな。Xの介入回数はおそらく片手で数える程度だろう。大半はターニャと人間たち自身の行動によるものだ。だが、その数回の介入が非常に劇的だったという考察ができる。PTSDだけでなく、ターニャは自分が依然としてXの狂気に従属していることを自覚している。狂人がいるだけならまだしも、その狂人に従わざるを得ない状況というのは全く別の話だ。この構造が彼女のジレンマを際立たせていると思われる。考察くん
DawgDictator
I love the 2 minutes of them saying "we're letting them in, so they shut up" and then tanya shows up with the next loudest thing from dropping a V2 on them
「彼らを中に入れて黙らせる」って2分間話してるのが好きなんだけど、そこにターニャがV2爆弾落として登場するのが最高にうるさいんだよな普通くん
Specialist_Egg_1947
The two closest things to God on earth is a judge in their courtroom and a general on a battlefield. They keep putting Tanya into situations where she is absolutely the ranking officer. In what world could the Major commanding that sub said anything close to a "no" to her? Of course she was going to get to land on her terms.
地上で神に最も近い存在は、法廷の裁判官と戦場の将軍だ。彼らはターニャを常に最高指揮官の立場に置き続ける。あの潜水艦を指揮する少佐が、彼女に「ノー」と言えるわけがない。彼女が自分の条件で上陸できるのは当然のことだ。この構図、制作陣が意図的に作ってるのは明らかだな。考察くん
Myrkrvaldyr
Those are some strong torpedoes. Also, Tanya ''happily'' smiling is nothing but the devil's smile. Something wicked is gonna happen soon.
あの魚雷は結構すごいな。それに、ターニャが「嬉しそうに」笑ってるのは悪魔の微笑みでしかないね。何かやばいことがもうすぐ起こりそうだ。普通くん
BosuW
原文
Because it carries a person it's way bigger than a normal torpedo which probably means a bigger payload. Also, Schügel did some fuck ass holy magic to make sure they detonate below the keel of the target, creating a sudden bubble that then raises and collapses which is like a triple critical hit upon the ship as it raises it over a single point plus two overpressure waves. This was impossible to achieve at the time because most torpedoes were just dumb go in a straight line and explode when you hit something. But every modern torpedo does it when attacking a ship. Here's a famous clip from the recent conflict with Iran. You can see how the attack literally breaks the ship's back.
人が乗る分、通常の魚雷よりはるかに大型で、おそらく弾頭も大きいんだろうな。さらに、シューゲルがクソみたいな神聖魔法を使って、目標の竜骨の下で確実に起爆させてる。それで急激な気泡が発生し、それが浮上して崩壊する——つまり、船を一点で持ち上げる衝撃と、二重の過圧波によるトリプルクリティカルみたいなものだ。当時の魚雷は直進して命中時に爆発するだけの無脳な代物だったから、これは実現不可能だった。だが現代の魚雷は艦船攻撃時、全員これを行う。最近のイラン紛争の有名な映像があるが、攻撃が文字通り船の背骨を折るのが確認できる。考察くん
Tels315
Holy hell... that thing lifted the whole ass of the ship out of the water.
マジかよ…あれで船の全体重が水から持ち上がったんだぜ。普通くん
BosuW
I don't know how long it's been before this event since a ship been torpedoed in war. I don't think it happened even in Falklands. It is indeed crazy to have a clip of the effects of a modern torpedo recorded with modern devices.
この出来事の前に、戦争で艦船が魚雷で撃沈されたのはいつぶりなのか見当もつかない。フォークランド紛争でもなかったはずだ。現代の魚雷の効果を、現代の機材で記録した映像が残っているのは、まさに狂気の沙汰だと言わざるを得ない。考察くん
BatteryPoweredFriend
Torpedoes are very slow and very short-ranged compared to missiles, especially the air-launched or boost stage varieties, so most militaries use them primarily for ASW.
魚雷はミサイルと比べると特に空中発射型やブースト段階のやつと比べるとクッソ遅い上に射程も短いンゴ。だから大抵の軍隊は対潜戦闘にしか使わんのやろな。2ちゃん
Llew19
Funnily enough not only are they real, they were best used by the Italians . Hood did basically get one shotted irl too (albeit by the Bismark), Ark Royal did get torpedo'd but took a lot longer to sink.
面白いことに、実在するだけでなくイタリア軍が一番うまく使ってたんだよね。フッドは現実でもほぼ一発で沈められてるし(相手はビスマルクだけど)、アーク・ロイヤルも魚雷は食らったけど沈むまでにはかなり時間がかかってた。普通くん
Knofbath
I think it's pretty symbolic that she took out both Hood (the cause of the fervor to hunt the Bismark), and Ark Royal (the carrier that took out Bismark's rudder) in the same battle.
フッド(ビスマルク追撃の引き金)とアーク・ロイヤル(ビスマルクの舵を破壊した空母)を同じ戦闘で沈めたの、めっちゃ象徴的すぎるッ!歴史の因果応報ここに極まれりって感じで震えたわ…!感情くん
Adventurous-98
原文
From what I see, to parallel read world battle, the closes is Tanya sub took out Admiral Cunningham's entire Mediterranean fleet. Admiral Cunningham fleet that won Battle of Cape Matapan consist of 3 Battleship and 1 Aircraft Carrier. What is shown in the anime is at least 1 battleship and 1 carrier getting sunk with a 1 hit 1 kill under-keel explosion. Based on that, the number of ship sunk would probably be the same as the number of Mage Trops in the water. And that is not to mention Tanya's secondary Destroyer hunt like a bunch of angry Attack Helicopter. So putting things into perspective, the non-UK probably lost their entire Mediterranean fleet or crippled it throughoutly. The series is fun as all those battles parallel many real world events from WW2 or other modern wars and it is fun to see Tanya win them one by one. Now we can check off Battle of Cape Matapan as a Empire's victory.
見た感じ、並行世界の戦いを比較すると、最も近いのはターニャの小隊がカニンガム提督の地中海艦隊全体を壊滅させたことだな。カニンガム提督の艦隊はマタパン岬沖海戦で勝利した時、戦艦3隻と空母1隻を擁してた。アニメで描かれたのは、少なくとも戦艦1隻と空母1隻がワンショット・ワンキルの艦底爆発で沈没ってところだ。これに基づくと、沈んだ艦船の数は水中の魔導小隊の数とほぼ同じだろうな。しかもターニャの駆逐艦狩りは、怒った攻撃ヘリの群れみたいなもんだったし。つまり、非連合国側は地中海艦隊全体を失うか、徹底的に壊滅させられたってことだ。このシリーズは面白いよ、これらの戦いがWW2や他の現代戦争の実在の出来事と多く平行してて、ターニャが一つずつ勝っていくのを見るのが楽しいんだ。今回でマタパン岬沖海戦は帝国の勝利としてチェックできるな。普通くん
throwawayurwaste
They gave the answer the last two episodes, Tanya is going to be wrapped up in a conspiracy and attack another capital. Ilaly seems to be the logical target
最後の2話で答えが出たな。ターニャは陰謀に巻き込まれて、別の首都を攻撃することになる。イリアルが妥当な標的っぽいだろ!感情くん
Master8248
weren't they heavily implying not-Berlin?
あれって明らかにベルリンじゃないってほのめかしてたよね?普通くん
throwawayurwaste
I thought about not-berlin at first as well but it goes against 3 things. First Tanya will follow any lawful order, attacking her own capital would be unlawful. Two, Tanya wants peace and attacking her own country would make her a outlaw in the entire world. Three, the army wants peace but a false flag attack would only galvanize the public for more war, not convince high command for peace.
ワイも最初は非ベルリン説考えたンゴけど3つの理由で否定せざるを得んわ。まずターニャは合法的な命令には従うやろ、自国首都攻撃は違法や。二つ目、ターニャは平和を望んでる、自国攻撃したら全世界で指名手配やで。三つ目、軍は平和を望んでるけど偽旗作戦は国民を戦争に駆り立てるだけで、上層部を和平に説得できへんやろ。2ちゃん
Master8248
A coup is inherently unlawful. I think a false flag also means her identity isn't revealed. They showed the capital is already a powder keg. I think such a bombing would cause riots instead of increasing war support even further.
クーデターは本質的に違法だよね。偽旗作戦ってことは彼女の正体が明かされないって意味でもあると思う。首都がもう火薬庫みたいになってるのは描かれてたし、そんな爆撃があったら戦意を高めるどころか暴動が起きるんじゃないかな。普通くん
throwawayurwaste
Well we will probably find out by the season end either way, unless some source knower wants to ping me in the source corner
シーズン終わりまでにはどっちにせよ分かるやろ。ソース知っとる人がワイに教えてくれんかな2ちゃん
BosuW
How does bombing Rome help the Empire though?
でもローマ爆撃って帝国に何の得があるんだ?普通くん
throwawayurwaste
The main issue is the higher ups blood thirst and losing both a ally and opening up another front would stack the deck so much they would have to conceded. My assumption is that they will bait ilaly into attacking first and the bombing will be retaliatory
問題は上層部の血の渇きやろな。同盟国を失う上に新戦線まで開いたら、詰み過ぎて降参せざるを得んやろ。ワイの予想やと、イタリアを先に攻撃させて、爆撃は報復って形に持ち込むんちゃうか。2ちゃん
Kill-bray
原文
It would worrk only if they make it look like it was an attack from the allied kingdom, the federation or other nations fighting against the Empire. In that case Ildoa would be forced into war. Maybe the flamboyant entrance in Ildoa's port this episode was meant to give plausibility to such a reaction from the Empire's enemies. Though I'm not really convinced myself that they were really talking about bombing Roma instead of Berlint. There's also the whole issue that it's not so easy to make a nation believe they have been attacked by another country. Is there even a real life precedent of this?
それが機能するのは、連合王国や連邦、あるいは帝国と戦っている他の国々による攻撃に見せかけた場合だけだね。そうすればアルドアは戦争に巻き込まれることになる。今回のエピソードでアルドアの港に派手に入港したのは、帝国の敵がそういう反応をする可能性を裏付けるためのものだったのかもしれない。でも、本当に彼らがベルリンではなくローマを爆撃する話をしていたとは、自分自身あまり確信持てないんだけどね。国に他国から攻撃されたと信じ込ませるのは簡単じゃないっていう問題もあるし。実際の歴史上でこういう前例ってあるのかな?普通くん
Comicauthority
Tanya claims to only follow lawful orders. In reality, she will take the most efficient action possible towards her goal of living a quiet and comfortable life. If she can end the war like this and not take the blame, she will do it.
ターニャは「合法的な命令にのみ従う」と主張しているが、実際には平穏で快適な生活という目標に向けて、可能な限り最も効率的な行動を取る。この形で戦争を終わらせられて、かつ責任を負わないのであれば、彼女はそれを実行するだろう。考察くん
Kill-bray
Right. I think it's obvious that Tanya was weighting her words very carefully there. There's no reason to think that she said exactly what she thought, instead of what she thought was the answer Zettour wanted to hear. And there's the fact that Zettour then tells her that he would have killed her if she answered differently.
そうだね。ターニャがあの場で言葉を慎重に選んでたのは明らかだと思う。彼女が本心をそのまま言ったとは思えないし、むしろゼートゥアーが聞きたいだろう答えを言ったんだろうね。しかも、もし違う答えなら殺してたって言われてるし、やっぱりそういうことだよな。普通くん
Independent_Row_1352
On the other hand, in the 1st World War the German army DID stage a coup against the politicians and took power, keeping the Emperor as a figurehead.
一方、第一次大戦ではドイツ軍が実際に政治家に対してクーデターを起こして実権を握り、皇帝を飾りにしたンゴね。ワイはこの史実がアニメの伏線になると思ってたわ。2ちゃん
throwawayurwaste
WW2 also has several assassination attempts on Hitler as seen in the documentary inglorious bastards but the shows now in this weird quasi world war I world war II situation
第二次大戦中にはヒトラー暗殺未遂がいくつかあったし、ドキュメンタリー『イングロリアス・バスターズ』でも描かれてたけど、今のこの作品は第一次大戦と第二次大戦の間の変な中途半端な世界になってるんだよね。普通くん
sephirothbahamut
one of which had Rommel invited to partecipate, and we have Rommel returning to not-germany here now.
ロンメルが招待されたやつがあったんだけど、ここでロンメルが“非ドイツ”に戻ってくるってわけ!やばくね!?続編きちゃったじゃん!ギャル
Hot-Log6283
First Tanya will follow any lawful order, attacking her own capital would be unlawful. Isn't attacking your allies also considered unlawful?
ターニャは合法的な命令には従うけど、自分の首都を攻撃するのは違法だろ。味方を攻撃するのも違法ってことにならない?普通くん
Logical_Phase8589
原文
Hmm... I think you are right about most but I think you are forgetting something, the politicians rejected the peace proposal from the military and demanded them for continuing the war with victory, ofc zettour and rest of Strategic HQ knew it was impossible to continue the war and he tried to speak against it but redendorf accepted the ridiculous task and planned the operation Andromeda. Now from my thought process this is what I think: Why redendorf accepted the impossible task? I think he also knew it was impossible but if he had let zettour talk and rejected them, there would be some heads rolling, as I understand military strategic HQ themselves does not have a direct contact with the Imperial Family and so Politicians are probably the proxy which relays the wishes and interests of the imperial family, so rejecting them was like rejecting the imperial family's wishes, so that's that. Why a reckless Operation named Andromeda? Probably bcz it was meant to fail from the start, there was never a chance of actually defeating the Russy Federation which is getting support from the Allied kingdom, and the volunteers from the United States and also getting pushed back by the Republic from the Northern Africa. The Empire had no supplies, no manpower and was running on fumes. What did Rurgen and zettour hinted to Tanya? I think the strategic HQ which by definition can be seen as Military Faction has decided that the Politicians and the Imperial Family are too drunk on victory and must be woken up, so Strategic HQ or the Military as a whole must have decided that a little staged attack on the Empire's capital will wake the politicians that even the capital is not safe so they must hurry with peace proposal rather than war. And about public opinion, I think they have been given so much propaganda that if even a little bit truth from the frontlines were to be revealed by enemy spies or by accident there would be rebellion and civil war across the Empire. So either way HQ must have decided it's worth a shot. Will Tanya participate if such were to occur? Probably yes, Tanya is a soldier and a soldier's duty is to carry out the order given by the strategic HQ, obviously she will have to make a choice herself. From a broader perspective she might participate as it is for the Empire's future.
ふむ…お前の言うとおりやな、大概は正しいわ。でも一つ忘れてるで。政治家連中が軍の和平案を蹴って「勝利まで戦争続行」を要求したんやろ。もちろんゼートゥアーら戦略本部も継戦が不可能ってわかってて反対しようとしたけど、レーデンドルフが無茶な作戦アンドロメダを受諾しちゃったんや。
ワイの考えやけど、なんでレーデンドルフが不可能な任務を受けたかっちゅうと、彼も無理ってわかってたんやろ。でもゼートゥアーに反対させて拒否したら首が飛ぶからや。軍戦略本部は皇室と直接コンタクト取れんから、政治家が皇室の意向を伝えるパイプ役なんや。つまり拒否=皇室の意向を拒否するってことやからな。
なんで無謀なアンドロメダ作戦か?最初から失敗前提やったんやろ。連合王国の支援受けるルーシー連邦に勝つ見込みなんて無いし、米国の義勇兵も来るし、北アフリカでは共和国軍に押されてるし。帝国は補給も人員も尽きてガス欠状態や。
ルーゲンとゼートゥアーがターニャに示唆したのは?戦略本部=軍部は「政治家も皇室も勝利に酔いすぎや、目を覚まさせなあかん」と判断したんやろ。つまり首都への偽装攻撃で「首都すら安全ちゃうぞ」って思い知らせて、戦争続行より和平案急げって政治家に気2ちゃん