幼女戦記Ⅱ

AutoLovepon
“アンドロメダ計画”が進捗するなか、ターニャの部隊は包囲されたソルディム528陣地で苦戦していた。ゼートゥーアの救援は、間に合うのか...。
エピソードサムネイル
DemonWraith2500
Hans von Zettour! What a man you are!
ハンス・フォン・ツェートゥアー!お前は本当にすごい男だよなwwwwおじ
asnaf745
This aura farming was on another level bro
オーラ農耕がガチで別次元やんwww2ちゃん
ggg730
The back to back with Tanya was like a combine harvester.
ターニャとの連続戦闘、まじでコンバインみたいだったんだけど!!やばくない!?笑ギャル
AuroraHalsey
I've been a Zettour fan since season 1, and my faith is rewarded. Lt General Zettour is actually the GOAT.
シーズン1からのゼートゥアー推しが報われたわw中将ゼートゥアーまじでGOATだわwwwwwwおじ
Bluemofia
The name is a dead giveaway. No one with that badass of a name is going to go down unceremoniously.
名前だけで分かるよね。そんなかっこいい名前のやつが、あっさり退場するわけないじゃん。普通くん
Mizukin
Excellent character.
うむ、見事な人物でござるな。武士
PowerOhene
Balls of Steel for a Man of Steel.
鋼の男にしては鋼の度胸だな。普通くん
BosuW
The true Devil of the War.
我が眼前に顕現せしは、戦争そのものの化身なり。かの者は悪魔にして、秩序を喰らいし混沌の主。凡人の知恵など、彼の前では塵芥に等しいのだ。中二病
snarkamedes
Peace. Peace. Peace.
平和だ。平和だ。平和だ。普通くん
mad_le_zisell
Where is this from? I don't remember this scene.
これどこから?このシーン覚えがないんだけど!?感情くん
snarkamedes
It's from Episode Two about a month ago. They put Zettour up on stage to present the plan to allow captured regions their own autonomy. I edited most of it out to place the two separate burning battlefield scenes together for a shorter mp4.
これは1ヶ月前の第2話からだよ。ゼートゥーアを舞台に上げて、占領地域に自治権を与える計画を発表させてたんだ。別々の燃える戦場シーンをまとめて短いmp4にするために、大部分はカットしたよ。普通くん
Galaxy40k
The whole "what a real strategy officer needs to be is a monster" bit was just absolutely wild. Because you damn well know from that smirk that he's including himself in that
「本当の戦略参謀ってのは、モンスターであるべき」ってやつ、まじやばくね!?あの不気味な微笑みから、自分自身もそれに含めてるって絶対わかるじゃん!笑ギャル
DandadanAsia
i felt bad for Zettour. what a great solider who understand that the Empire is wasting its solider lives when they should've take the peace deal
Zettourには同情してまうわ…帝国が兵士の命を無駄にしてるって理解しとるのに、和平案を受け入れるべきやったのにな。ホンマに立派な軍人やったわ。2ちゃん
pjepja
Zettour is actually very similar to Tanya in his thinking. That's why he essentially made her his protégé. They independently push for the same things and have similar flaws.
ゼートゥーアは思考パターンがターニャとかなり似てるな。だからこそ彼女を事実上の後継者にしたんだろう。二人は独立して同じ方向性を推し進め、同じ弱点も共有してる。まあ似た者同士ってやつだな。ドライおじ
censored_username
原文
They are similar but different. They share a penchant for extremely rational decision making, and are both capable of quickly embracing new concepts into their decision making. What separates them is their motivation. Zettour does not seem to care about sacrificing himself at all if it were to complete his goal of saving the empire. Tanya meanwhile cares most about herself, but has a strong conviction that to protect herself, she must make herself useful in the systems that she is a part of
似てるけど違うんだよね。二人とも極端に合理的な決断をするし、新しい概念をすぐ決断に取り入れる能力もある。違いは動機だな。ゼートゥーアは帝国を救うという目的のためなら自分を犠牲にすることも厭わない感じ。一方ターニャは自分が最優先だけど、自分を守るためには属するシステムの中で役に立つ存在にならなきゃいけないって強い信念を持ってるんだ。普通くん
SolomonBlack
Those fuckers in High Command really screwed up. They think they've gotten rid of a troublesome problem but all they've really done is send Caesar to Gaul.
司令部の連中マジでやらかしすぎだろッ!厄介者を追い出したつもりだろうけど、実際はシーザーをガリアに送っただけだぞ!無能すぎて笑うわ!感情くん
towardselysium
Absolutely stupid idea to send him to the front lines. They let the batshit insane dude whose been responsible for all of their insane stunts go to the front line where he can do whatever he wants with zero oversight because whose gonna say no to him? Could have stuck him in records or something but noooo
前線送りはガチでアホやろwww 今までの無茶な作戦全部仕切ってきた狂人を、誰も逆らえんからって無監視で前線に放り込むとか正気か? 記録班とかに押し込めばええのに、そうはならんのなwww2ちゃん
Conscious_Pack_2474
They just limited his authority over the battle field, that's his punishment for going against leadership. It's running theme in the anime that political leaders aren't the smartest bunch. Hans will just take advantage of the whole situation
彼は戦場での権限を制限されただけさ、それが上層部に逆らった罰ってわけだ。このアニメの一貫したテーマとして、政治屋どもは賢くないってのがあるよね。ハンスはこの状況をうまく利用するだろうな。普通くん
censored_username
原文
It's also a big reference to the politics behind WWI. The war kept going because the political side could never agree on what peace should mean between the different countries/alliances. It's also not necessarily them being dumb. The danger of total war is that it's a self reinforcing system. The more the country has sacrificed, the more the people that have made those sacrifices want to see victory. It's the mother of all sunk costs. If they stop now, their country will likely end up collapsing hard due to all the accumulate strain of the war, without anything to show for it. The people won't accept that and will likely hold the politicians responsible, possibly violently. So the only way for the politicians to stay safe at this point is just to continue piling on bodies in the hope of an eventual victory. And if you think this is unrealistic, just look at Russia right now. They're stuck in the same conundrum. The current political elite is toast if they give up on this conflict. So now they're stuck cannibalizing their country in the ever fleeting hope that they might end up victorious. They still keep making insane demands at peace negotiations. Starting a war is easy. Ending them is incredibly hard.
これは第一次世界大戦の政治的背景への大きな言及でもあるんだよな。戦争が続いたのは、各国・同盟間で平和の定義について政治的側面が決して合意できなかったからだ。彼らが単に愚かだというわけでもない。総力戦の危険性は、それが自己強化システムだということにある。国が犠牲を払えば払うほど、その犠牲を払った人々は勝利を見たがる。これはあらゆる埋没費用の母体だ。今止めれば、戦争で蓄積した負担で国は崩壊するだろうが、得るものは何もない。国民はそれを受け入れず、政治家を責任追及するだろう、場合によっては暴力的に。だから政治家が安全を保つ唯一の道は、最終勝利を願って人材を積み上げ続けることなんだ。これが非現実的だと思うなら、今のロシアを見てみろ。彼らは同じジレンマに陥っている。現在の政治エリートは、この紛争を放棄したら終わりだ。だから勝利の儚い希望にすがって、自国を食い潰し続けている。和平交渉でも狂った要求を出し続けている。戦争を始めるのは簡単だ。終わらせるのは信じられないほど難しい。考察くん
Earlier-Today
Of course they screwed up - they're politicians.
まあ、政治家だから当然だろ。ドライおじ
Will-Isley
Actual best character
まじでこのキャラ最強じゃない!?やばくね!?ギャル
Any-Calligrapher2866
I'll never forget him as long as I live
生きてる限り、彼のことは絶対に忘れないよ普通くん
SilliusS0ddus
not for 10 years at least
少なくとも10年は無理すぎるッ!感情くん
DaREY297
As a reward...
褒美って…まじでやばくね!?ギャル
BosuW
I shall give you another deployment
もう一度配属してやろう。普通くん
saga999
I really respect the fact that he didn't ask Tanya to do anything he wouldn't do himself. What a fucking mad man.
彼は自らがやらぬことをターニャに強いることなど一切せぬ、その姿勢には心からの敬意を抱くものでござる。まったく、これほどの豪傑は他に類を見ぬでござるな!武士
AlikeWolf
THATS WHY HE'S THE GOAT! THE GOAT!!!
さればこそ、彼こそが至高の存在なり!絶対的なる頂点、紛れもないGOATよ!中二病
mmcjawa_reborn
原文
This is a good episode to highlight one of the ways Tanya works over a lot of other Isekai. Is Tanya OP compared to a lot of other characters in her setting? Sure. But there are plenty of others who can effectively challenge her and endanger her life. Like the Russians very nearly killed her this episode...it's a hell of of a lot more engaging if you think the protagonist has to struggle versus the curbstomps so many Isekai characters routinely do against there enemies.
このエピソードは、ターニャが他の異世界転生作品とどう違うかを示す良い例だね。ターニャは確かに設定内では強い方だけど、彼女に挑めて命を脅かすキャラもたくさんいる。今回ロシア軍に殺されかけたし…主人公が苦戦する姿って、敵を一方的に倒すだけの異世界モノよりずっと見応えあると思う。普通くん
Myrkrvaldyr
It helps that magic in this world isn't the typical multipurpose phenomenon. She can't AoE cast fire, ice, water, put enemies to sleep, turn invisible, etc. Magic is very limited in its scope so far, it's just another form of energy that can be used for simple defense or attack, but that's it. Thanks to that, Tanya is strong in mana output but she can't nuke an entire city on her own.
この世界の魔法は、典型的な多目的現象ではないのが大きいよな。彼女は範囲攻撃で火・氷・水を使ったり、敵を眠らせたり、透明になったりはできない。魔法の範囲はこれまで非常に限定的で、単純な防御や攻撃に使える別種のエネルギーに過ぎない。それゆえ、ターニャは魔力の出力は高いが、単独で都市全体を消し飛ばすことはできないという考察ができる。考察くん
Pickled_Kagura
Shame she isn't atomic.
あの子が原子タイプじゃないの残念じゃん?笑ギャル
Galaxy40k
Eminence movie can't come fast enough
エミネンスの映画、早く見たいな。普通くん
Conscious_Pack_2474
Been waiting for years. it better be 4hrs
数年待ったンゴ……4時間は確保してくれやマジで2ちゃん
raknor88
Thanks to that, Tanya is strong in mana output but she can't nuke an entire city on her own. Not yet. It all depends on the Computational Jewels. If they upgrade their computer's processing power she might be able to. Plus I think the other magic does exist, it's just no one is exploring it as a weapon of war.
おかげでターニャは魔力量は強いけど、単独で街一つ吹き飛ばすのは無理だな。まだだけどね。結局は演算宝珠次第だよ。あれの処理能力が上がれば可能かもしれない。あと他の魔法も存在すると思うけど、誰も戦争兵器として研究してないだけだと思う。普通くん
ShadowGuyinRealLife
Don't you remember episode 3 from years ago? The E95 aside from just being more powerful than the standard issue also is needed to store mana the same way you can bullets. No other orb can do that and relies on the mage's current "mana tank." So they are probably near the limit.
数年前の第3話を覚えていないのか?E95は標準装備より単純に強力なだけでなく、弾丸のように魔力を蓄積するために必要なんだ。他のオーブにはそれができず、魔導師の現在の「魔力タンク」に依存している。だから彼らは限界に近いという考察ができる。考察くん
rollin340
It's also so complex and finicky that it literally only works because a God intervened. If they want to go beyond the limits they are at now, divine intervention might be a prerequisite.
それに、あまりにも複雑で繊細すぎて、実際に機能するのは神が介入したからだけだよね。今の限界を超えたいなら、神の介入が前提条件になるかもしれないな。普通くん
Spiritual_Bus1125
I mean, the scientist did get divine intervention for the jewel to be created, not only to be used Next ep he could come with some other random OP bullshit
いやマジで科学者、宝石作るのに神の介入あったじゃん?しかも使うためだけじゃなくてさ!次回またなんか意味わかんねぇチート級のクソ技出してくるかもじゃん?やばくね!?笑ギャル
snarkamedes
原文
Makes me wonder if the war can be won by overpowering the opposition with the jewels. Everyone will keep pace with one another regard the jewel technology: more power, duration, resilience to breakage, speed of production, etc. We saw that happen regards design of aircraft, tanks and ships throughout WW2 IRL. But could you gain advantage by simply targeting the enemy jewels? Gaining a significant numerical advantage in jewels (and thus mages flying with them) means you'd overwhelm the opposition on a front. Jewel-shattering tech is where the future of this warfare is at. Something else struck me this episode too: Tanya saw Grantz standing beside Zettour below and was instantly able to communicate with him. The mages' best use might be battlefield communications alone - that's how you get proper combined arms - they could use the magic to move their battlegroups around as fast as modern militaries do.
この宝石で敵を圧倒すれば戦争に勝てるんじゃないかって思うよ。みんな宝石技術で互角に競い合うだろうね——出力、持続時間、耐久性、生産速度とか。WW2で実際に航空機や戦車、艦船の設計でそうだったし。でも敵の宝石を狙うだけで優位に立てるかな?宝石(つまり飛行魔導師)で数的優位を得れば戦線で圧倒できる。宝石破壊技術がこの戦争の未来だね。あと今回気づいたんだけど、ターニャが下にいるグランツとツェトーアを見て即座に通信してた。魔導師の最適な使い道は戦場通信だけかもしれない——それでこそ諸兵科連携ができる。魔法で戦闘集団を現代軍並みに機動させられるんだ。普通くん
Strowy
Jewel-shattering tech is where the future of this warfare is at. They sit in the middle of the mage's chest. Just killing the mage would be easier, and probably have more of an impact considering mages are considered elite troops and require significant training and inherent talent.
宝石破壊技術こそが、この戦争の未来を決める鍵だと思われる。魔導師の胸部中央に位置する宝玉を狙うのは合理的だが、単純に魔導師を殺害する方がより効果的で、影響も大きいだろう。魔導師は精鋭部隊であり、高度な訓練と才能が必要とされる存在だからな。考察くん
Soggy_Association491
You would need a very big gap in technology advancement to win especially with not-USSR throwing body at you using lend-lease resource from not-USA.
非ソ連が非アメリカからのレンドリース資源で人海戦術を仕掛けてくる状況で勝つには、かなり大きな技術格差が必要だと思うよ。普通くん
BosuW
Magic can also actually cast enhancing effects on oneself. But in practice really that's just enabling base flight mage combat. I believe once a "medic mage" was mentioned too? But that implies it's a specialized role, not everyone can do it.
魔法は実際に自分自身への強化効果も付与できる。だが実践的には、それは基本飛行魔術師の戦闘を可能にするだけだ。かつて「医療魔導士」という単語も言及されていたと思うが? あれは専門職であることを示唆しており、誰にでもできるものではないという考察ができる。考察くん
Photo-Majestic
I always thought that’s legitimately just a mage that’s a medic. Like for high value casualties they fly in like trauma team and fly them to the nearest hospital. Or provide triage on the spot.
それな!まじで医療魔導師って感じじゃん?重症者とかにはトラウマチームみたいに飛んでって最寄りの病院に運ぶとか、その場でトリアージするとかさ。やばくね?ギャル
BosuW
But that sounds like any mage could do that. And if you're any mage, you get sent to battle.
せやな、つまりどんな魔導師でもやれるってことやろ。で、魔導師やったら戦場送りやん。2ちゃん
pjepja
原文
You can also use any helicopter to transport people to hospital, but ambulance helicopters are better equipped for it. I imagine specialised medical mage has computation jewel tuned for carry capacity and speed since they don't need to to cast nukes. They can also carry magic defibrillator instead of a large gun. You also want to give a mage like that advanced medical training to handle larger variety of injuries. It would be expensive to give that kind of training to every drafted mage and their time can be better used learning offensive and defensive magic.
確かにヘリなら病人を運べるけど、救急ヘリの方が装備が充実してるよね。医療特化の魔導師は核魔法を使わない分、計算宝石を運搬能力と速度に特化できるし、大型の銃の代わりに魔法式除細動器を持てるんだ。そういう魔導師には高度な医療訓練を施して、幅広い怪我に対応させるべきだな。でも全徴集魔導師にそんな訓練をさせるのは費用がかかるし、攻撃・防御魔法の習得に時間を使う方が効率的だと思う。普通くん
080087
原文
turn invisible Funnily enough, this is actually something she can do. We've seen light magic be used a few different times, one of which was using it to turn invisible (or close enough) with IIRC the V2 mission. It's also responsible for various illusions (e.g. the test to join the mage battalion, in a fight in season 1, in the interrogation scene in season 2). Probably also responsible for the laser attacks that Sue uses too.
面白いことに、これは実は彼女ができることなんだよな。光魔法が何度か使われるのを見てきたけど、そのうちの一つがV2任務で透明化(もしくはそれに近い状態)に使われたんだ。また、様々な幻術にも関与している(例:魔導大隊入隊試験、シーズン1の戦闘、シーズン2の尋問シーンなど)。スーが使うレーザー攻撃も、おそらくこれが原因だと思われる。考察くん
Jinsodia
although they considered it a "basic test" to be able to see through the illusion though.
彼らは幻術を見破れることを「基本テスト」だと考えていたけどね。普通くん
080087
It isn't really. That was in Tanya's "I must find a reasonable excuse to fail everyone that applies" phase. It would make sense that she makes the test super hard, and also pretends that it is very easy to the person supervising her.
いや、実際はそうでもないんだよ。あれはターニャの「不合格者を全員落とすための合理的な言い訳を探さなきゃ」期の話だからな。試験を超難しく設定して、なおかつ監督者には「簡単だ」と偽るのは、彼女の戦略として理にかなってるんだ。伏線というか、キャラの一貫性が見える場面だと思われる。考察くん
Jinsodia
That is why i put it in quotes. It still means people can see through it in a stationary closed room like that. Probably much harder to use if moving.
だからクォーテーションつけたんだよ!でも静止してる密室なら透視できちゃうってことじゃん?動きながら使うのはまじ難しそうだけどね笑ギャル
EffectiveImportant51
I agree it is very smart and what makes this different. In addition, I think most Isekai is about wish fulfillment. So the magic systems almost always are about granting the MC unlimited power or ability to access that. I think Tanya has this too. But, the key here is in order to access that she has to betray her principles which is a lovely tension at the heart of this.
同意だ。その点が本作の独自性を生んでいる。加えて、多くの異世界作品は願望充足が目的だ。だから魔法体系もほぼ常に主人公に無制限の力やそのアクセス権を与えるものだ。ターニャにもそれがあると思われる。だが、鍵となるのは、その力にアクセスするために彼女が自身の信念を裏切らざるを得ない点だ。これこそが物語の核心にある見事な緊張感だという考察ができる。考察くん
BosuW
The fact that we know the Empire ultimately loses also helps to feed the tension of each battle. In contrast to knowing, even if only implicitly through the premise, on other Isekai that the MC will ultimately win always.
帝国が最終的に負けると分かってるのが、各戦闘の緊張感を高めてるんだよね。他の異世界モノだと、前提から主人公が最終的に勝つって暗に分かってるのと対照的だわ。普通くん
Any-Calligrapher2866
I think it's incredibly fun to compare it with IRL history. It's basically an alt-history anime as well.
まじで現実の歴史と比べるのやばくない!?これって実質if歴史アニメじゃん?めっちゃ楽しいんだけど!ギャル
blackfishhorsemen
It does seem like their going to go with Tanya is always going to win/hold her battlefield while the rest of the empire loses because Being X doesn't want her to die.
ターニャは絶対に勝つし戦場を守り抜くんだろうな、帝国の他の連中が負けてもな。だってBeing Xが彼女を死なせたくないからだろ、くそッ!感情くん
Galaxy40k
原文
IMO the main reason why this works is because you know that Tanya is on the losing side. Yes, the Russian mage was close to her equal and so gave us a fantastic fight scene out of it, but there was never really any doubt as a viewer that Tanya was going to survive. But there was a LOT of doubt about if Zettour was going to survive. Or if the pincer movement would work. Maybe he sacrifices himself to win the battle but dies in the process. Tanya is OP enough to win fights but not SO OP that she can win on her own, let alone wars. And that's what makes things always feel tense and engaging
個人的には、この作品が上手く機能してる主な理由は、ターニャが劣勢側だと分かってることだと思う。確かにロシアの魔導士は彼女と互角で、そのおかげで素晴らしい戦闘シーンが見られたけど、視聴者としてはターニャが生き残ることに疑いの余地はなかった。でもゼートゥーアが生き残るかどうかはかなり不確かだったし、挟撃作戦が成功するかも分からなかった。もしかしたら彼は勝利のために自分を犠牲にするかもしれない。ターニャは戦闘には強いけど、一人で戦争に勝てるほど圧倒的ではない。そこが常に緊張感と面白さを生んでるんだと思う。普通くん
Dadarian
It’s not about when they lose but how.
負けるタイミングとかじゃなくて、どう負けるかが大事じゃん?ギャル
Boshwa
After watching a Slime character once again go through the same song and dance of always dodging/tanking every hit, and then effortlessly beating their enemy, this was cathartic
スライムキャラがまた同じパターンで全攻撃回避・防御して無双するのを見た後だと、これは本当に爽快だった。普通くん
Emi_Ibarazakiii
I've said it and I'll say it again: Tanya is "OP Isekai Protagonist done right"!
言い続けてるけど、ターニャは「正しく描かれた最強異世界主人公」だって!マジでこれ以外の表現が見つからないッ!感情くん
Remitonov
And Zettour proves why he is Tanya's superior ranking officer. He had her line of thinking nailed down and knew she'd connect the dots to launch the pincer as he required.
ツェトゥアーがなぜターニャの上官なのか、まさに証明してるよな。彼はターニャの思考パターンを完全に読んでて、彼女が自分の要求通りに挟撃を仕掛けるって見抜いてたんだ。普通くん
nhansieu1
in a battle where Tanya had all advantages too. enemies only have 4 experienced mages. she had more numbers, more fire power thanks to Type 95, yet she almost died
ターニャ有利すぎるやろこの戦いwww敵の熟練魔導師たった4人やぞ。こっちは数も火力もType 95で圧倒的やのに、ほぼ死にかけたンゴwww流石に草2ちゃん
i_reddit_too_mcuh
It seems like the Federation had better jewels there no? At least in defense and shield.
連邦の方がいい宝石持ってたみたいだね?少なくとも防御とシールドに関しては。普通くん
nhansieu1
whatever the hell they had, that's 4 soldiers against an entire elite squadron
あいつらが何を抱えてたか知らねぇけど、たった4人の兵士で精鋭部隊まるごと相手にしてたってマジかよッ!無理すぎるだろ優勝!感情くん
saga999
原文
it's a hell of of a lot more engaging if you think the protagonist has to struggle versus the curbstomps so many Isekai characters routinely do against there enemies. That depends on the anime. For a lot of those anime, the battles aren't the selling point. In their cases, curb stomping the opponent is a feature, not a bug. Of course, there are also a lot where your complaints are correct (there are A LOT of isekai). Reincarnated as a Slime is the best (and worst) example for this IMO.
主人公が苦労して戦う姿があると、無双系のイセカイより断然面白く感じるよね。ただ、作品によると思う。そういうアニメはバトルが売りじゃないし、敵を圧倒するのが欠点じゃなくて魅力になってる場合もあるからね。もちろん、君の言う通りな作品も多いけど(イセカイは数が多いし)。転スラはその典型例だと思うよ。普通くん
kimana1651
原文
This is all a simulation put on by god to get a reaction out of him. Who's to say what even happens when he dies. It could just be a training exercise like skeleton soldier couldnt protect the dungeon or Re:Zero. Or maybe he can't die until he learns his lesson. Nothing in this world matters outside of the scope of what the god wants. When the anime ends nothing in the world will really matter, just what the MC learns or cares about in the scope of what the god wants to teach him. It (should be) a really clever misdirect from the writers, we care about the war but in the third act we will probably get tore out of it for the real details that matter.
これ全部神が彼の反応見るために仕掛けたシミュレーションやろ。死んだらどうなるかも分からんしな。『骸骨騎士様』や『Re:Zero』みたいな訓練装置かもしれへんし、教訓を学ぶまで死ねないとかありそうやで。この世界の何もかも神の思惑の範囲内でしか意味ないんや。アニメが終わったら戦争なんてどうでもよくなる、ただ主人公が何を学ぶかだけが問題や。これは作家の巧妙なミスリードやと思うわ。俺らは戦争に夢中やけど、第三幕で現実的な真実に叩き落とされるんやろな。2ちゃん
absolutelynotaname
Someone last ep said that Zettour was willing to sacrifice a big piece which is Tanya and I disagreed but they were partly right, he's willing to sacrifice even a bigger piece
前回のエピソードで、ゼートゥーアはターニャという大きな駒を犠牲にする覚悟があるって言ってた人がいたけど、俺は反対だったんだ。でも部分的には正しかったな。彼はそれよりもっと大きな駒さえ犠牲にする覚悟があるってことだね。普通くん
NanDemoKnaives
It really stood out to me that he said a high ranking officer dying is what's needed to send a message to the higher ups, he's thinking of the best way to lose too.
「高官が死ぬことが上層部へのメッセージになる」って言ったのがめっちゃ刺さったわ。しかも負け方まで考えてるって、マジで頭おかしいレベルだろ。優勝すぎるッ!感情くん
OldInstruction5368
原文
It was painfully clear to anyone with sense that the war is already lost. The only question now is how badly the Empire will lose. Even victory at this point would be painfully pyrrhic. That's why someone thought this Saldim 528 plan with Tanya's head as bait was Zettour's idea to shock the Empire into accepting a White Peace. I still think that was more or less his goal, but the madlad was willing to up the ante and put his own head on the chopping block as well. He just can't make the crushing defeat look too obvious. He has to try, and still fail, to get the message back to the politicians in not-Berlin... or at least shock his friend Rudersdorf into standing up to the politicians. However, as compromised as his hotheaded friend has become... it would likely backfire and make Rudersdorf that much more reckless. The Empire, and Zettour, are truly in that dire of straits.
マジで誰の目から見ても戦争はもう負けやん。問題は帝国がどれだけボロ負けするかだけやろ。今勝ったとしても痛すぎるピュロスの勝利やしな。だからこそゼートゥアーがターニャの首を餌にしたサルディム528作戦で帝国に白紙和平を突きつけようとしたんやろな。ワイもそれは概ね正しいと思うわ。ただあの狂人、自分の首も賭けに出すとはなwww 完膚なきまでの敗北を露骨に見せられへんから、あえて失敗してみせてベルリンもどきの政治家連中にメッセージ送ろうとしたんやろ。せめて盟友ルーデルドルフを立ち上がらせようとしたんやけど、あの熱血漢がもう妥協しすぎてるせいで逆効果になりそうやで。帝国もゼートゥアーもマジで崖っぷちやな。2ちゃん
BosuW
Every option they can try at this point is just triage. Just as Zettour said, they have to use each corpse to it's maximum value. Like it's not even a question of if you will die at this point, it's a question of how much of a tradeoff you can get for it.
この時点で彼らが取れる選択肢は全部、ただの延命処置だよね。ツェートゥアーが言った通り、死体を最大限活用するしかない。もう死ぬかどうかは問題じゃなくて、その死でどれだけの見返りを得られるかって話なんだよ。普通くん
Clavilenyo
I was also skeptical when people said he would sacrifice Tanya. He sure was very cool in this one.
まじで最初「ターニャ犠牲にするんじゃね?」って疑ってたんだけど、この回の彼マジでかっこよすぎじゃね!?ギャル
saga999
Desperate time calls for desperate measures.
切羽詰まった時は切羽詰まった手段に出るしかないんだよッ!感情くん
AuroraHalsey
原文
Best episode of the season, possibly best episode of the whole series. Zettour having absolute faith in Degurechaff, a complete willingness to die to end the war, them back to back in the fire. Absolute cinema. Who knew that death camps were such an effective way to make elite mages? Here I thought they just starved and worked you to death. Seemed to work out fine for Mikel, who is probably the best mage Tanya has faced yet. Mary is still so funny. She's like a dog; she hears Tanya's name and is already running off for walkies. Tanya might be fine with it, but I'm a little salty every time I see Kampfgruppe (not combat team!) Lehrgen rather than Salamander, Degurechaff, or Zettour. Lehrgen isn't even in the theatre most of the time.
今期最高のエピソード、いやシリーズ全体でも屈指の出来だな。ゼートゥーアがデグレチャフに絶対の信頼を置き、戦争終結のために死をも厭わない覚悟、そして背中合わせで戦うシーンは、まさに映画級の演出と言える。強制収容所がエリート魔導師を生む最適な環境だったとはな。ただ餓死させて酷使するだけかと思ってたが、ミケルを見る限り効果は確かだ。彼はターニャがこれまで戦った中で最強の魔導師かもしれない。メアリーは相変わらず面白いな。まるで犬だ。ターニャの名前を聞いた瞬間、散歩に飛び出すように突っ込んでくる。ターニャ本人は気にしてないかもしれないが、戦闘団(コンバットチームじゃない!)レールゲンがサラマンダーやデグレチャフ、ゼートゥーアの代わりに出てくるのは毎回ちょっと不満だ。レールゲンは大抵戦場にすらいないのに。考察くん
Tedeeka
I completly agree, this episode was something else. the way the writing wasnt left behind because of the action, how the overcame the problems and the stakes put on the plan. it was crazy, defenetly my favorite episode yet of the whole series. the sounds were perfect and the pacing magnificent!
完全に同意だわ、今回のエピソードは別格だった。アクションに押されて脚本がおろそかになることなく、問題をどう乗り越えたか、計画にかかったリスクもちゃんと描かれてて。やばかったな、シリーズ通しての今までで一番好きな回だと思う。音響も完璧で、テンポも素晴らしかった!普通くん
Any-Calligrapher2866
I think the Soviet Mage represents Konstantin Rokossovsky. He was sent to the Gulag, not a death camp and killing people there was not ideal.
ソ連の魔導師はコンスタンチン・ロコソフスキーをモデルにしてると思うんだよね。彼は収容所送りになったけど、死の収容所じゃなかったし、そこで人を殺すのは不適切だったんだよ。感情くん
snarkamedes
原文
Who knew that death camps were such an effective way to make elite mages? Here I thought they just starved and worked you to death. I thought Salamander Group were going to cut their way through the Federation mages so quickly the AK mages were going to have to swoop in to rescue the Fed. forces. Having them being so hardened by the brutality of the gulags that they have the advantage in shielding is really cool. Will admit to being slightly disappointed that the Federation mages aren't flying around in a mortar and pestle like the Baba Yaga... they've been so good (and funny) with the cultural identities so far, eg.: skis for the Scandinavians and Harry Potter-like broomsticks for the Allied Kingdom.
まさか強制収容所がエリート魔導師を育てる効率的な手段だったとはな。飢えさせて酷使して死に至らしめるだけだと思ってたよ。サラマンダー隊が連邦の魔導師を速攻で切り裂いて、AK魔導師が救援に駆けつける展開になると思ってたんだ。でも彼らが収容所の残虐さで鍛えられて防御魔法で優位に立つってのは本当にかっこいい。ただ、連邦の魔導師がバーバ・ヤーガみたいに乳鉢と乳棒で飛び回ってるのを見たかったのは少し残念だな。これまでの文化的アイデンティティの表現(スカンジナビア人はスキー、連合王国はハリー・ポッター風の箒)が良くて面白かっただけにね。普通くん
Photo-Majestic
原文
I read it as Iron Man suits with deliberate lack of cultural significance to signify the party instead. I also reckon that it’s also simply better computation technology. Maybe skipping a few safety regulations. Tanya’s gem was also only reserved for her because it was too dangerous for everyone else if I recall correctly. Maybe in the gulags most mages were lost in experiments or sth. There should be way more than we are shown after all.
ワイ的には「Iron Manスーツに文化的意義を意図的に排除して党を象徴させてる」って読んだわ。単純に計算技術が進んでるだけかもな。安全規制すっ飛ばしてる可能性もあるし。ターニャの宝石も、他者には危険すぎるから彼女専用にされただけやろ。多分グラグでは実験で魔導師の大半が失われたとかやろな。実際はもっといるはずやしな。2ちゃん
ExtraWedding6521
原文
Having them being so hardened by the brutality of the gulags that they have the advantage in shielding is really cool. Honestly it's kind of bizarre because it trivializes the horror of the Gulags. They show no visible signs of being mistreated and they are still completely loyal to the party that sent them there. The only consequence of their stint in the Gulag seems to be improved teamwork and combat power and deeper bonds. There is no negative consequence of their time in a freaking death camp, not even psychological scars. I guess Gulag in this world means more something like training camp, not death camp.
収容所の過酷さに鍛えられて防御面で優位に立つって設定はめちゃくちゃ面白い。でも正直ちょっと変だよな。強制収容所の恐怖が軽く見えてる気がする。虐待の痕跡も見えないし、送り込んだ政党に完全に忠誠を尽くしてるし。収容所での経験の結果がチームワークと戦闘力の向上と絆の深化だけって、死のキャンプのマイナス面がゼロじゃん。心理的な傷さえもない。この世界の収容所って、死のキャンプっていうより訓練キャンプ的な意味なのかもな。普通くん
Greg_The_Rabbit
原文
I'm betting there is some extra cost to it that we just haven't seen yet. (Well besides the fact that they were arbatriarily discarded and then equally arbitrarily forced into the war when they were needed. That is shitty all on it's own.) Considering we know that Tanya's own computational jewel requires the literal Power of God not to self destruct and kill her, I'm betting the Not-Soviets made their tech on the corpses of ALOT of people. I'm betting the cost is something to do with the synchronizing between users. Like maybe it wears down resistance to the party's propaganda. Creating a quite literal form of group think.
ターニャの計算宝珠が自壊せず彼女を殺さないために文字通り神の力が必要だって事実を踏まえると、ノット・ソビエト連邦の技術は大量の人体実験の産物だという考察ができる。コストはおそらく使用者間のシンクロ率に関係していると思われる。具体的には、党のプロパガンダへの抵抗感を摩耗させ、文字通りの集団思考を生み出す仕組みなんじゃないか。任意に捨てられて必要になったら同じく恣意的に戦争へ駆り出された件も、単独で十分クソな話だがな。考察くん
Meander061
Will admit to being slightly disappointed that the Federation mages aren't flying around in a mortar and pestle like the Baba Yaga I was looking at Mikel wondering what gag he used to fly, and...he was just flying. Well, ok then.
連邦の魔導師がバーバ・ヤーガみたいに乳鉢と乳棒で飛んでるのかと思ってちょっとガッカリしたわ。ミケルがどんなギャグで飛んでるのか見てたんだけど……普通に飛んでただけだった。まあ、それでいいか。普通くん
Klusterphuck67
原文
He way the Fed mages fight also very distinct. Mikhail were literally using using his subordinates as human shield as long as it means they can take down the enemy. Granted it's probably a strat only those who went throufhlabor camp hell like them are willing to put themselves as meatshield for their commander, a very communist way of fighting. The Empire's mages constantly dart around them so they obviously have superior mobility, but it seems like the Fed's mage specialized in durability (the computational orb on Mikhail took a whole magdump and was still functional). Iirc each nation develop their mage tech differently. Empire with maximum mobility, Albion with top speed horse model, Entente... idek what those meatball mfker skiis do but I am pretty sure the Federation's are built to tank hits.
連邦の魔導師の戦い方もかなり独特やな。ミハイルとかガチで部下を盾にして敵倒すこと優先してたやん。まあ強制収容所地獄くぐった連中やからこそ、指揮官の盾になれるんやろな。共産主義的な戦い方やわ。 帝国の魔導師は常に機動しながら戦っとるから明らかに機動力は上やけど、連邦は耐久特化っぽいな。ミハイルの演算宝珠、フルマガジン喰らっても動いとったし。 各国で魔導技術の方向性が違うんやな。帝国は機動力最大、アルビオンは速度特化の馬型、連邦はタンク型って感じや。あのミートボール共のスキーが何してるかは知らんけどなwww2ちゃん
Bluemofia
The way I saw it was his subordinates moved in and out to spread out the hits so their shields don't get overwhelmed, and they have the coordination needed to maintain it, while the commander focused on the offense. It's a more practiced and refined version of what Grantz did with Zettour, with Zettour shooting a rifle while Grantz shielded the car.
俺の見方だと、部下たちが出入りしながら攻撃を分散させてシールドが負荷で潰れないようにしてるんだよ。それを維持できる連携力があって、指揮官は攻撃に専念してる感じ。ツェトゥアがライフル撃ってグランツが車を守ったあの動きの、もっと洗練された実戦版ってわけだね。普通くん
justsyr
Mary is still so funny. She's like a dog; she hears Tanya's name and is already running off for walkies. At this point any officer above her rank seems to go "meh let her do whatever she wants", telling her 'follow your orders' means nothing if they just let her do whatever every time, just take her gear, put her in a box, whatever, but we need plot lol.
メアリーは相変わらず面白いな。まるで犬だな、ターニャの名を聞いた瞬間に散歩に出かけるように走り出す。この時点で、彼女より階級が上の将校はみんな「まあ、好きにさせておけ」って感じで、『命令に従え』と言っても、毎回好き勝手させてるなら意味がないんだよな。装備を没収して箱にでも閉じ込めておけばいいのに、でもそれじゃプロットが進まないからな(笑)。考察くん
RedSsj
She’s like gon during the chimera ant arc she’s one or two more encounters from snapping and disobeying everyone to get her revenge, which should inadvertently kill her but being X needs Mary alive to teach Tanya a lesson. She’s def not my favorite character and I wish they got rid of her earlier but she’s needed to keep the conflict going.
彼女はキメラアント編のゴンみたいな感じだね。あと1、2回何かあれば、皆に背いてでも復讐に走りそうで、それが結果的に自分を殺すことになるかもしれない。でも存在Xはターニャに教訓を与えるためにメアリーを生かしておく必要があるんだろうな。彼女は決してお気に入りじゃないし、もっと早く消えてほしかったけど、対立を続けるためには必要な存在だと思う。普通くん
Cavalish
Wow are prison camps actually based??? 😍😍😍
刑務所キャンプ実際ガチで有能なんか??😍😍😍2ちゃん
Clavilenyo
The federation mage formation fighting was so awesome. I wonder if Tanya will do something similar to improve her team.
連邦の魔導師フォーメーション戦闘やばくね!?まじでかっこよかったんだけど!ターニャも同じような感じでチーム強化してくんのかな?気になるわ〜!ギャル
Electrical_Army_4382
I think what Zettour wanted was both him and Tanya to be killed. That that would ideally, shock the civilian command into accepting the previous peace deal.
ゼットーアが望んでいたのは、自分とターニャの両方が死ぬことだったんだと思う。それが理想的には、文民司令部をショックさせて、前の和平案を受け入れさせるためのものだったんだろうね。普通くん
y3kman
Tanya standing back to back with Zettour. ABSOLUTE CINEMA. The wait for season 2 is so worth it just for this episode. I know the preview already spoiled the bayonet formation but it was really cool. Those 4 Federation mages are overpowered. Gulag training must be hell.
ターニャとゼートゥアーが背中合わせで立つシーン、まさに映画級のカメラワークだな。シーズン2待ちの価値がこの1話だけで十分にある。予告で銃剣隊形は見えてたけど、実際の映像は想像以上に格好良かった。連邦の魔導師4人は明らかに戦力過多だろ。あの練度から察するに、グラグでの訓練は想像を絶するものだったんだろうな。考察くん
absolutelynotaname
Absolute cinema Those 4 Federation mages are overpowered. Gulag training must be hell. When the choice is to win or your whole family gets sent to gulag I'd expect them to be stronger than the empire mage
絶対に映画やわ。あの連邦魔導士4人チート過ぎやろ。グラグ訓練地獄やろな。負けたら家族全員グラグ送りってなったら帝国の魔導士より強くなるわなwww2ちゃん
Jaridan
i disagree tbh, we've been shown time and again that computation technology/jewel makes a massive difference which is why i'm pretty displeased that the purged and forgotten mages are supposed to be this strong from russia. Remember that the empire is also supposed to have the cutting edge technology when it comes to computation jewels, especially tanyas battalion is already above the rest.
正直言って反対だな。これまで何度も計算技術や宝珠が大きな差を生むって描かれてきたのに、ロシアの追放された魔導師たちがそんなに強いって設定には納得いかない。帝国も最先端の宝珠技術を持ってるはずだし、特にターニャの大隊は既に他を圧倒してるんだからさ。普通くん
Solid-Excuse7467
Or it could be the jewel send by the american counter part. That can explains why it so strong.
それか、アメリカ側から送られた宝石って可能性もあるよな。だからあんなに強かったんだろうな。感情くん
Jaridan
even if, they didnt train at all and were sent to the frontline immediately + wouldnt they look like the americans then?
たとえ訓練もせずに前線に送られたとしても、それってアメリカ軍みたいに見えるんじゃない?普通くん
Cool_Ad7445
I think that'll be the reveal in a couple episodes, they'll realize that American equipment is now being produced and sent to the federation en masse and things are about to get a whole hell of a lot worse.
数話後ぐらいに判明するやろな。アメリカ製装備が量産されて連邦に送られてるってやつ。そしたら事態はガチで地獄絵図やで。2ちゃん
BosuW
原文
Communists made a justifiable infamy of being low tech, ragtag, and brute force, but you shouldn't let that could your judgement to the many technological feats they did achieve. Even with all the purges and bullshit, irl USSR was the first side in the world to introduce sleek fuselage warplanes en masse during the interwar period. That goes for both fighters and bombers. They made a .50 cal machine gun that is slightly lighter, and much simpler, than the Browning M2 around the same years, then later introduced one that is 10 kilograms lighter after WW2. Their tank designs once they locked tf in were some of the best in the world, it's not just their massive numbers that counted. The US also likes to think itself the only nation in WW2 to introduce a mass issue semi-automatic rifle, but the Soviets actually did it first with the one you can see in the episode (probably, I need to look closer, but I'm fairly certain it's either an SVT-38 or an SVT-40, the latter was the specific model produced in the millions but it's practically the same design). They only couldn't field their whole army by virtue of having a much larger army and the whole having your country and factories under attack bit. All to say, it's not out of the realm of possibility for this world that the Soviets have extremely advanced computation jewels. They had straight up orc technology in many respects ( cough cough Mosin-Nagant cough ), but in others they were at moments at the leading edge. This is simply the nature of logistics for such an immense state.
共産主義者は低技術・寄せ集め・力押しという不名誉なイメージがあるけど、そのせいで彼らが達成した多くの技術的偉業を見落としちゃいけないと思う。粛清やら何やらあったけど、現実のソ連は戦間期に世界で初めて流線型の機体を持つ戦闘機と爆撃機を大量配備した側なんだよ。.50口径の機関銃もブローニングM2より軽くて構造が単純なのを同時期に作ってて、戦後にはさらに10kg軽いモデルを出してる。戦車の設計も本気出したら世界最高クラスで、数の多さだけじゃなかったんだよ。アメリカは自国だけがWW2で半自動小銃を大量配備したと思いたがってるけど、実はソ連が先で、エピソードに映ってるのはSVT-38かSVT-40だと思う(後者は数百万挺生産されたモデルで設計はほぼ同じ)。ただ軍が大きすぎて、しかも国土と工場が攻撃されてたせいで全軍に配備できなかっただけだよ。つまり、この世界でソ連が超進んだ計算宝石を持ってても不思議じゃないってこと。モシン・ナガンみたいなオーク技術な面もあったけど、他の面では最先端だった瞬間もある。巨大国家の兵站ってそういうもんだろ。普通くん
Jaridan
i'm not disregarding irl stuff but my pet peeve is that in this world the empire is the top dog technology wise, supposedly.
現実の話を無視するつもりはないけど、この世界で帝国が技術的に最強って設定なのがまじで気になるんだよな……納得いかねえ!感情くん
BosuW
This doesn't make them not. It just means sometimes someone else also makes bleeding edge technology. That's just the nature of arms races. No one can be the top dog at everything all the time.
だからといって彼らがそうじゃないってわけじゃない。ただ、時には他の誰かも最先端技術を作るってことだよ。それが軍拡競争の本質だしね。誰かが常に全部の分野でトップでいられるわけじゃないんだ。普通くん
Jaridan
you are a top dog and cutting edge for technology you aren't using? major waste of resources and thus unlikely imo.
いやまじで、最新技術使ってないのにトップ層とか言われても説得力なくね?資源の無駄すぎだし、正直ありえなくない?笑ギャル
Any-Calligrapher2866
IRL Germany also had technologically superior equipment. They just fell behind later on since maintenance for an average German tank was far more complicated than maintenance for a T34.
現実のドイツも装備は技術的に優れてたんだよ。でも後半は落ち込んだんだ、だってドイツ戦車の整備ってT34より遥かに複雑だったからな。感情くん
Jaridan
We had superior german wundersteel 😄
ドイツの超鋼材ワイらが持っとったからな😄2ちゃん
AwakenedSheeple
Maybe only the shield output is superior at the cost of all other performance.
もしかしたらシールド出力だけが他全部の性能犠牲にして勝ってるだけかもな!感情くん
Jaridan
i've talked to someone else and it comes down to the anime not portraying time being passed very well, so the squad is way more exhausted than is shown here and did way more fighting. the same was in S1 aswell when tany was promoted to spot the entente crossing which was a multiple days long recon mission test at first iirc.
他の人とも話したんだけど、アニメだと時間の経過があまりうまく描かれてないんだよね。分隊はここで見えるよりずっと疲弊してて、もっと戦闘してるんだよ。S1でも同じで、ターニャが連合軍の渡河を発見するために昇進した時も、最初は数日間に及ぶ偵察任務の試験だったはずだし。普通くん
Semivir
It seemed to me that it was mostly their shield that were a lot stronger. I was thinking it might be a reference to the KV and early IS series tanks which had a lot more armour than the germans were used to dealing with.
ワイの見解やけど、あれは主に装甲が強すぎるって話やろ。KV戦車や初期のISシリーズを連想してしもうたわ。ドイツ軍が想定しとった装甲より遥かに分厚いやつな。あれはガチで草生えるレベルの衝撃やったんやろな。2ちゃん
ShadowGuyinRealLife
Funny thing is they could have easily established the same plot point by having the Federation mages outnumber Tanya and that one colonel just be one tough nut to crack. Tanya would be denied an easy victory and still keep the lore of the Empire being stronger with better jewels, training, and experience.
面白いのは、連邦魔導師がターニャを数で圧倒し、その大佐がただの手強い相手として描かれていれば、同じプロットポイントを簡単に成立させられたはずなんだよな。ターニャは簡単に勝てず、帝国が優れた宝玉・訓練・経験で強いという設定も維持できた。考察くん
Original_Employee621
原文
Didn't the movie have a couple of other Imperial Aces fight against the Allies? Tanya is an Ace of Aces, but she has serious competition even within her own ranks. Nevermind the entirety of the Allied mages, it makes sense that 1-2 Federation mages are just as cracked. They've survived the Gulags, and probably came out tougher, like with Tanyas own mage wing. They just don't meet up, generally, because they are engaged elsewhere.
映画では他にも帝国のエース何人かが連合軍と戦ってなかったか?ターニャはエース中のエースだが、自軍内でもかなりの競争相手がいるわな。連合軍全体の魔導師は言わずもがな、連邦の魔導師1〜2人が同じくらいバケモノなのは納得や。彼らはグラグを生き延びて、ターニャの魔導大隊みたいに鍛え抜かれて出てきたんやろ。ただ、基本的に別の戦線で忙しいから遭遇しないだけやな。2ちゃん
Tels315
原文
It was only Mary Sue who fought on equal ground with Tanya, because Mary was also blessed by Being X, just as her father was before his last clash with Tanya. It's been well established in the series that no mage can stand up to Tanya if they haven't been blessed by Being X, but suddenly these Federation mages who should be lacking in nutrition, health, combat training, and experience tanked a shot from one of Tanya's Blessed Spells and then kept trucking with an impentrable shield that withstood the combined fire of her entire unit and herself. This fight sucked because it just went full battle shonen and power crept the setting for no real reason.
ターニャと互角に渡り合えたのはメアリー・スーだけだったな。彼女もまた、父がターニャとの最後の決戦前にそうだったように、存在Xの祝福を受けていたからだ。シリーズでは一貫して、存在Xの祝福を受けていない魔導師はターニャに敵わないと確立されていたのに、突然現れた連邦の魔導師たちは、栄養不足・健康不良・戦闘訓練不足・経験不足のはずなのに、ターニャの祝福された呪文の一撃を耐え抜き、彼女の部隊全体と彼女自身の集中砲火を防ぎ切る不可視のシールドを展開して前進し続けた。この戦闘は完全にバトル少年漫画化してしまい、設定に理由もなくパワークリープが起きたから、正直クソだった。考察くん