幼女戦記Ⅱ

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鉄槌作戦
イルドア王国を介した講和の機運が高まるなか、帝国はより有利な条件を押しつけるため、大規模反攻作戦「鉄槌作戦」を発動する。
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DistributionOld6411
This is what they mean when they say "The beginning of the end" The empire gave up on the last strand of humanity to get an absolute victory that will never come
これが「終わりの始まり」ってやつだなw 帝国は絶対勝利なんて絶対来ないのに、最後の人間性を捨てちまったんだよw まじかよwwwwwwおじ
Aileos
Tanya is going to have a very moderate reaction once she hears that nothing was learned.
ターニャよ、何も学ばれなかったと知った時、彼女の反応は実に「穏やか」なるものとなるだろう——まさに嵐の前の静寂、地獄の門が開く前の一瞬の平穏よな。中二病
mekerpan
The governments here are the worst of the evils in this series (except perhaps for Being X -- who is presumably encouraging their criminal irresponsibility). Tanya is positively a fluffy innocent lamb in comparison.
この作品の政府たちは最悪の悪役だよ(おそらく彼らの犯罪的な無責任さを後押ししてるBeing Xは別として)。それに比べたらターニャはむしろ可愛い無垢な子羊みたいなもんだね。普通くん
mekerpan
Tanya strikes me as very much of a hyper-rational libertarian sort (not aan insult, just a description).
ターニャは極端な合理主義リバタリアンって感じだな。悪口じゃなくて、ただの印象だよ。ドライおじ
NevisYsbryd
原文
A very apt one, yes. Tanya has specifically mentioned the Chicago School of Economics, free market principles, the rights of the individual, and so on-all or which are pretty standard features of libertarian and lib-right philosophy. They were probably alluding to something like the Non-Aggression Principle in their condemnations of Being X. And as Tanya is about as blatant an example of a non-malicious highly functioning antisocial personality disorder as it gets, yes, they are an excessively reason-oriented libertarian. Granted, their thinking has some flaws per libertarian thought, but that is where they land.
うまいこと言うね。ターニャはシカゴ学派や自由市場原理、個人の権利について明確に言及してて、どれもリバタリアンや右派リベラルの典型的な思想だよね。Being Xを批判するときも非侵略原則を意識してるっぽいし。それにターニャは悪意のない高機能反社会性パーソナリティの典型例だから、まさに過度に合理的なリバタリアンだと思う。リバタリアン思想から見ると思考に欠陥はあるけど、結局そこに落ち着くんだよな。普通くん
maoulegna
Let's be fair, the localization for the series is really bad compared to the original title. Pretty much giving the opposite effect/expectation
まじでそれな!ローカライズ版、原題と比べるとやばいくらいちゃうじゃん?全然逆の印象与えてるし、期待外れもいいとこなんだけど笑ギャル
NevisYsbryd
I think it works if read as a satirical representation of Tanya's reputation, being unjustly slandered as evil by self-righteous and self-serving aggressive hypocrites.
ワイ的にはターニャの評判を風刺的に描いたって解釈ならアリやと思うわ。自己正当化して自分勝手な攻撃的な偽善者どもに、不当に悪者扱いされてるって構図やろな。2ちゃん
mekerpan
It is "amusing" that a character is presented as virtuous who is insanely fixated on killing Tanya because Tanya evilly killed her father (who was trying his hardest to kill Tanya).
「邪悪なターニャに父を殺されたから」って理由でターニャ殺しに異常なほど執着するキャラが美徳として描かれてるの、笑っちゃうわ。しかも父親の方はターニャを殺そうと必死だったわけだし。普通くん
NevisYsbryd
And who was fighting on behalf of the aggressor in the conflict, and who Tanya was dragged into fighting and did so as a soldier doing their job, not for personal spite. But that is why she is Mary Sue.
そして、その紛争で侵略者側として戦っていたのは誰なのか、そしてターニャが巻き込まれた戦いで、個人的な憎悪ではなく兵士として職務を遂行していたのは誰なのか。だが、それこそが彼女がメアリー・スーたる所以だという考察ができる。考察くん
mekerpan
That girl seems like the perfect avatar of Being x....
あの娘こそ、まさに存在Xの化身に相違ないでござるな。武士
NevisYsbryd
原文
Eh, more the logical conclusion of its perspective as applied to humans. X holds humans in disdain and is willing to violate ethical boundaries for its own interests. As hypocritical and uncritical as Mary is, she at least thinks she is doing right by people. Her ethics are extremely poorly developed-ultimately little more than what serves her interests or aesthetics is good, and what contradicts it is bad. She is almost wholly enslaved to emotional reactivity. Being X, while petty, is not obsessive and myopic. It is a disgruntled spirit with a comparatively macrocosmic view who performed their role for a long time without truly understanding or believing in it. Being X is, ultimately, treating humans far more inhumanely, as a means to an end, than Tanya is, who deliberately things of many of them in terms of objects of utility more than as people (they at least recognize their individual rights and their own obligation to not aggress upon them), and not out direct personal grievance but as a philosophical argument. Mary is the pettiness of a disgruntled half-obedient angel foisted upon a traumatized, righteously indignant, and inappropriately privileged little girl. While we can draw a parallel in that both are ultimately motivated by an obsessive need to be right that results in them being utterly wrong, that describes too much of all humans (and in this setting, whatever class of entities X belongs to) to characterize her as an avatar. Mary is, at the end of the day, a disposable pawn for X's purposes wherein Tanya is much more important.
うーん、どちらかというと、その視点を人間に適用した場合の当然の帰結だと思う。Xは人間を軽蔑していて、自分の利益のために倫理の境界を越えることを厭わない。メアリーが偽善的で批判的思考に欠けるとしても、少なくとも彼女は人々のために正しいことをしていると思っている。彼女の倫理観は極めて未熟で、結局は自分の利益や好みに合うものが善で、それに反するものが悪というだけだ。彼女はほぼ完全に感情的な反応に支配されている。一方、Xは些細ではあるが、執着心や近視眼的ではない。Xは不満を抱えた精神であり、比較的マクロな視点を持ち、長い間その役割を真に理解も信じもせずに果たしてきた存在だ。結局、Xはターニャよりもはるかに非人道的に人間を手段として扱っている。ターニャは多くの人間を人としてよりも有用な物体として意図的に見ているが(少なくとも個人の権利と、彼らに侵略しない義務は認識している)、直接的な個人的恨みからではなく哲学的議論としてそうしている。メアリーは、不満を抱えた半ば従順な天使の狭量さを、トラウマを負い、正義感に燃え、不当な特権を持つ少女に押し付けたものだ。両者が最終的に「正しくなければならない」という強迫観念に動かされ、結果的に完全に間違っているという点で類似性を描くことはできるが、それは全人類(そしてこの設定ではXの属する存在のクラス)の多くに当てはまることであり、彼女をその化身と普通くん
Emi_Ibarazakiii
To be fair, Being X wouldn't stand for it anyway; Even if they made peace, they would probably be invaded by aliens or something on the very next day! He won't let her retire as an faithless, hateful heathen!
まあ公平に言えば、Being Xが黙って見逃すわけがないだろう。たとえ和平が成立したとしても、翌日にはエイリアンか何かに侵略されるのがオチだ!彼女を無信仰で憎悪に満ちた異教徒のまま隠居させるなんて、絶対に許さないはずだ。考察くん
VordovKolnir
Oddly enough, a few years ago I made a post asking if this could possibly be a precursor for Strike Witches with Being X the leader of the alien force. It mentions in Strike Witches a war raging across Europa before the invasion.
奇妙な偶然だが、数年前、我が疑問はこうだった——「幼女戦記」こそが「ストライクウィッチーズ」の前日譚に非ずや、と。ビーイングXこそが異形の軍勢を率いる首魁であり、ストライクウィッチーズに記された「侵攻前、欧州全土を焦土と化した戦争」とは、まさしくこの物語のことを指すのでは、と。運命の糸は見えざる所で絡み合っているのだ。中二病
mekerpan
Agreed. Being X is the worst....
同意。存在Xは本当に最悪だね。普通くん
baseballlover723
原文
Sorry, your comment has been removed. This belongs in the Source Material Corner at the top of this thread. In discussion threads for currently airing anime, discussions about source material, spin-offs, author comments and unadapted content must be posted there. Any comparison to the source material no matter how minor belongs there. Your comment was NOT removed for spoilers; it was removed for discussion of the source material outside of the Source Material Corner . Questions? Reply to this message, send a modmail , or leave a comment in the meta thread . Don't know the rules? Read them here .
申し訳ないが、このコメントは削除された。このスレッド上部の「原作ネタコーナー」に投稿すべき内容だ。現在放送中のアニメの議論スレでは、原作・スピンオフ・作者コメント・未アニメ化コンテンツに関する議論はすべてそこに投稿しなければならない。原作との比較はどんなに些細なものでも該当する。このコメントはネタバレではなく、原作ネタコーナー外での原作議論として削除された。質問があればこのメッセージに返信するか、modmail、メタスレッドへ。ルールを知らない場合はこちらを読んでほしい。考察くん
Hot-Log6283
It would make the face she made this episode when they discovered enemy HQ looks like a beautiful smile by comparison (perfect for Visha camera).
この敵司令部発見時の今話の表情、比較すれば美しき微笑みに見えてくるでござるな(ヴィーシャのカメラには絶好の獲物でござる)。武士
BosuW
Honestly I'd say the beginning of the end was already last episode, this is just that sinking in. Because previously the fact that public opinion in the Empire is encouraging the continuation of the war was already highlighted.
正直、終わりの始まりはもう前回の時点だったと思う。今回はそれがじわじわ来てるだけだね。帝国の世論が戦争継続を後押ししてるってのは、前々から強調されてたし。普通くん
DandadanAsia
原文
Real history repeated in a fictional story. Nazi also believe they can take Moscow and it was the first nail that build the coffin for Nazi. Unified States is well rested and can pump out unlimited supply for the war and when the Unified States get their troop ready for invasion. The Empire will be done just like in the real history. Tanya and Zettour are the real one. They are the only people who know the real cost for the Empire if the war continue.
歴史がフィクションの中で繰り返されているな。ナチスもモスクワを取れると信じていたが、それが棺桶の最初の釘だった。統一国家は十分に休息し、戦争に無限の物資を供給できる。そして統一国家が侵攻用の部隊を整えた時、帝国は現実の歴史と同じように終わるだろう。ターニャとゼートゥアーこそが本物だ。彼らだけが戦争継続の真の代償を理解している。考察くん
Kill-bray
Tanya of course must know it more than anyone else, since she must be able to see the parallelism with her/his original world's history.
ターニャは元の世界の歴史との類似性を誰よりも理解してるはずだ。まあ当然だよな。ドライおじ
Remitonov
She even saw the parallels of the operation with Market Garden, that being they're going to get dangerously overstretched holding bridges too far from their supply nodes. True enough, the Federation forces did escape, albeit still in fairly bad shape.
彼女はこの作戦をマーケット・ガーデン作戦と重ねて見ていたんだな。補給拠点から離れすぎた橋を確保し続けることで、危険なまでに戦線が伸びきる構造が共通している、という考察だ。実際、連邦軍はかなり痛手を負いながらも脱出に成功したが、あれはまさにその危険性が現実化した瞬間だったと言える。考察くん
Emi_Ibarazakiii
They did try to push back a little at the end, but even these officers have pressure from above! And I'd even say, from below as well; I'm sure there's a big anti-war contingent, but there's also people who lost everyone and want revenge, etc... (Plus, their own propaganda might bite them in the ass, many of their citizens probably believe they're crushing it!)
最後の方で少しは抵抗しようとしてたけど、あの将校たちも上からの圧力があるんだよね!しかも下からもね。反戦派も多いだろうけど、全員失くして復讐を望む人もいるし…(あと、自分たちのプロパガンダが裏目に出る可能性もあるし、国民の多くは勝ってると思ってるだろうしね!)普通くん
NoNameSwitzerland
And I wish the military would say something like: There i one chance to win the war, YOU (the politicians) have to join the front soldiers.
戦争に勝つチャンスは一つだけ、お前ら政治家が前線に出ろって軍が言ってくれたらいいのになwwwwおじ
saga999
It boosts morale to know the politicians stand with the soldiers.
政治家が兵士たちの味方でいてくれるって知るだけで士気が爆上がりするよッ!最高すぎる!感情くん
Vanderseid
原文
If it isn't clear by now, the Empire is now doomed. They've already clearly been stretched very thin by now on the Eastern front and not Britain and not US hasn't even fully entered the ring. It's the age old the rear can't see the realities in the front. Sure Tanya's unit has kept winning their battles, but that is just one unit. Poor Zettour suffering for two weeks straight now, though I fear a schism might have opened now between him and Rudersdorf.
今となっては明白だけど、帝国はもう詰んでるね。東部戦線で既にかなり消耗してるのに、イギリスもアメリカも本格参戦してないし。後方には前線の現実が見えないってやつだよ。ターニャの部隊は確かに勝ち続けてるけど、それはたった一個部隊だし。ツェトーアはもう二週間ずっと苦しんでるけど、ルーデルスドルフとの間に亀裂が入ったかもしれないのが心配だな。普通くん
BosuW
原文
Well it really isn't just one unit that keeps winning, considering overall Theatre objectives are still being achieved. It's more that they only keep winning through disproportionate sacrifices and a small amount of miracles. Just see this episode how exhausting it was for Salamander Group to simply arrive at their position. They were extremely lucky they weren't spotted and attacked on the way. These small things are what the rear can't see. In short, it's not that the combat units have started to lose all of a sudden. It's that they're now starting to win in spite of the overall planning and not because of it. That can create an illusion for the rear the imperial war machine still got steam in it. In reality, it's ringing ALL the alarm bells.
実際問題、単一の部隊が勝ち続けているわけではない。戦域全体の目標はまだ達成されているが、それは過剰な犠牲と僅かな奇跡によるものだ。今回のエピソードを見れば、ザラマンド隊がただ陣地に到達するだけでどれほど消耗したか分かる。途中で発見されず攻撃されなかったのは極めて幸運だった。こういった細部は後方には見えない。要するに、戦闘部隊が突然負け始めたわけではない。むしろ、全体の計画のおかげではなく、それに反して勝ち始めているのだ。これは後方に帝国の戦争機構がまだ余力を持つという錯覚を与えるが、実際には全ての警鐘が鳴り響いている。考察くん
TheBusStop12
It mirrors real life WW2 a bit. Sure, they could probably make a mad dash and actually succeed at getting to Moskva. But they'd probably exhaust their supplies and logistics would collapse. And then 80 years later "Never invade Russy during winter" will be an online meme
第二次大戦の現実をちょっと思い出させるね。確かに、モスクワまで一気に突っ込んで成功する可能性もあるかもしれない。でも、補給が尽きて兵站が崩壊するだろうな。そして80年後には「冬にロシアに侵攻するな」がネットミームになってるんだろうね。普通くん
Golden_Phi
I wonder if this world has a not Napoleon that has already created a basis for this meme.
この世界にナポレオンがおらんかったら、このネタの土台すら存在せんってことやなwww2ちゃん
TheBusStop12
Maybe if Tanya manages to survive the World War again at everything Being X throws at her, he sends her back to the faux-Napoleonic Wars instead
もしターニャがまた世界大戦をBeing Xの仕掛けるあらゆる試練を乗り越えて生き延びたら、今度はナポレオン戦争風の世界に送り返すかもしれないな普通くん
Portalhero2
That would actually slap so much, I'd watch that sequel.
それマジで神すぎるッ!続編絶対見るわ、優勝!感情くん
themaninthehightower
原文
This anime presents a central Europe as a strong monarchy at the start of the 20th century, instead of our history's version with a loosely associated federation under a kaiser. That could hint the turning point was in their version of the Thirty Years' War (1618-1648), leaving an intact Holy Roman Empire (HRE) to fill the role of the anime's empire instead of devastated Germanic lands in our timeline. Such an empire would have had a stronger influence on that reality's version of royalist France, and even if Napoleon could emerge as an emperor under those conditions by the 19th century, he'd have faced a much stronger opponent in the HRE between him and Russia. The only way he'd be in a position to make the case winters are bad in Russia is if he broke the central empire 90 years before Tanya's time, but the central empire seems quite functional at the start of the story.
このアニメの中央帝国は、現実の歴史におけるカイザー下の緩い連邦ではなく、20世紀初頭の強力な君主制として描かれているね。その分岐点は三十年戦争(1618-1648)だったのかもしれない。現実ではドイツの地が荒廃したけど、この世界では神聖ローマ帝国が無傷で残り、アニメの帝国の役割を果たしているんだろう。そんな帝国は王政フランスにも強い影響を与えたはずで、たとえ19世紀にナポレオンが皇帝として登場しても、ロシアとの間にある神聖ローマ帝国という強敵に直面しただろうね。彼が「ロシアの冬は厳しい」と主張できる立場に立つには、ターニャの時代の90年前に中央帝国を崩壊させる必要があったけど、物語開始時点では中央帝国はかなり機能しているように見えるんだよな。普通くん
Abedeus
The fact that "We could march at Moscow" wasn't met with "remember that one Frenchman who tried it?" suggests that no, and since there's still kingdoms and empires in early 20th century means there was no Napoleon at all.
「モスクワ行進できるぞ」に「フランス人で挑戦したヤツいたよな?」って返しが来ない時点で察しやろ。20世紀初頭にまだ王国や帝国が残ってるってことは、そもそもナポレオンが存在しなかったってことやな。2ちゃん
Hot-Log6283
I mean Tanya and Napoleon are kind of the same size no? j/k Tanya-sama is much taller.
ターニャとナポレオンって身長同じくらいじゃね?冗談だけどな!ターニャ様の方が全然デカいわッ!感情くん
Golden_Phi
Actually, is it me or does Tanya seem taller? When she was standing next to the board with the map I noticed that she seemed much taller than in season 1.
確かに、ターニャって身長伸びた?地図の前で立ってるシーン、1期よりだいぶ大きく見えたんだけど。普通くん
LateDitto
Well, she's a growing child after all.
彼女、まだ成長期の子どもだもんな……しんどい。でも、そうやって育っていく姿を見られるのがエモすぎるんだよな!感情くん
VordovKolnir
Yeah. It has been a year. She's 10 or 11 now.
マジで!もう1年経ったんだ!今じゃ彼女も10歳か11歳とかじゃん!時間経つのやばくね!?ギャル
BosuW
Also reminds me of the Japanese Empire. Admiral Yamamoto told the higher ups, essentially, "we will win in 6 months or we won't win at all". They already knew how it was gonna go before even firing the first shot on the Allies. Didn't stop them from doubling, tripling, and quadrupling down.
これ日本帝国のこと思い出すな。山本提督は上層部に「半年勝てなければもう勝てない」って言ったんだよね。連合国に最初の一発撃つ前から結果はわかってた。それでも二倍、三倍、四倍と突っ込んでいったんだよ。普通くん
InfernoVulpix
And for similar reasons, too. The Imperial politicians here fear that a defeat could jeopardize the royal family, and the Japanese were similarly worried at what a defeat might spell for their Emperor. IIRC when the Emperor did decide to surrender his own zealous followers nearly threw a coup over it, since they felt the only way to keep him safe was to keep fighting and somehow win.
帝国の政治家らが敗北で王室が危うくなるのを恐れてるんやろ。日本も同じ理由で天皇を守るために戦い続けたんや。確か天皇が降伏決めた時、熱狂的な支持者らがクーデター起こしかけたんやで。天皇を守るには戦い続けて勝つしかないと思っとったんやな。ワイも似たような理由でわかるわ。2ちゃん
DivinityPen
They made us whip out the ice cream boats. They shouldn't-a did that.
アイスクリームボート出す羽目になったじゃん。あれはやるべきじゃなかったな。普通くん
Routine-Hovercraft94
More so WW1 than WW2 actually
いやWW2っつーよりWW1やろなwww2ちゃん
TheBusStop12
While the war mainly draws inspiration from WW1, it also draws a lot from WW2. The conflict on the eastern flank with the Russy Federation is based in large part on WW2, mainly because the Soviets never fought in WW1, the October Revolution happened at the tail end of WW1 and Russia dropped out of the war as a result.
戦争の主なモデルはWW1だけど、WW2からもかなり影響受けてるね。東側のルシー連邦との戦いはWW2がベースになってる部分が多いと思う。ソ連はWW1に参戦してないし、十月革命がWW1の終盤に起きてロシアが戦争から離脱したからね。普通くん
matbot55
Also Tanya used knowledge from WW2 (like preventing France from fleeing to the colonies) in her strategies.
ターニャ、WW2の知識を戦略に使ってるのが天才すぎるッ!フランスを植民地に逃がさない作戦とか、歴史知ってるからこそできる芸当だよな!エモすぎて泣ける!感情くん
scot911
IIRC so far the Eastern Front has actually followed what happened during WW1 with the Russians taking some territory and the Germans taking some territory. I think this episode probably ended the front somewhere near where they were at the start of Barbarossa though so next episode should start the WW2 part of the Eastern Front.
確か今のところ東部戦線はWW1と同じ流れで、ロシアが領土を取り、ドイツも領土を取ってたんだよね。今回のエピソードで戦線がバルバロッサ開始時くらいの位置に落ち着いたっぽいから、次回からWW2の東部戦線が始まるんじゃないかな。普通くん
Earlier-Today
With the politicians saying the war can't end because they can't afford peace without reparations - it makes me wonder how they can hope to fund and supply continued war efforts.
政治家たちが「賠償金なしじゃ和平なんて無理」って言いまくってるけど、それなら戦争続ける資金とか補給どうすんの?ってマジで思うんだけど!頭おかしくね?笑ギャル
DisplayHonest6465
“”In short, it's not that the combat units have started to lose all of a sudden. It's that they're now starting to win in spite of the overall planning and not because of it. That can create an illusion for the rear the imperial war machine still got steam in it. In reality, it's ringing ALL the alarm bells””.what do you mean ? I don’t understand military strategy.why is it an illusion?
要するに、戦闘部隊が急に負け始めたわけじゃないんだよ。むしろ今は、全体の計画のおかげじゃなくて、計画に反して勝ち始めてるって状態なんだ。それが後方には「帝国の戦争マシーンはまだ勢いがある」って錯覚を生む。でも実際は、全部の警報が鳴りまくってるってことなんだよ。 「どういう意味?」って思うよね。軍事戦略わかんないし。なんで錯覚なの?って話だけど、簡単に言うと、勝ってるように見えて実は構造が崩れてるってことなんだと思う。普通くん
randomkidlol
原文
imagine a modern company thats doing well and making lots of money. they then proceed to layoff large swaths of people to save money. the company continues to do well for a while because the layoffs were only targeted at less senior or lower performing employees. these employees are then stretched thin with crazy overtime and generous amounts of luck to continue to achieve the goals management set. management sees only money saved but no drop in results, and thinks their plan was a huge success. they dont see how much extra work the employees they still have put in, or the lucky breaks they catch to continue to deliver the results the empire (and this fictional company) is on the brink of collapse as soon as those senior high performing employees run out of luck, or become unavailable for whatever reason (ie. illness, death, switching jobs).
ワイの会社やんけwww 業績ええのにコスト削減で大量リストラ→残った社員に過労と運任せで目標達成させる→上は「計画大成功や!」と勘違い そら高パフォーマンス社員が尽きたり離職した瞬間、帝国も会社も崩壊待ったなしやで まさにアニメのターニャ世界そのものやな2ちゃん
DisplayHonest6465
Thanks you understand it completely.so basically this what would set the empire to failure.they really dug their own grave
ありがとう、完全に理解してくれてるね。つまり、これが帝国を敗北に導く要因ってわけだ。本当に自分たちで墓穴を掘った感じだな。普通くん
Z000Burst
funny enough, this is basically how Tanya would see thing girl is business pill so hard
草、ターニャならマジでこう見るわwww ビジネス薬キメてるガールやんけwww2ちゃん
Kill-bray
I like the comparison one guy made using the Titanic movie: "We're sinking? Quite the opposite, this side of the ship keeps on raising!"
タイタニックの比喩、天才かよ!「沈んでる?逆だよ、こっちの船は上がり続けてるんだ!」って、まさにこれすぎるッ!最高の例えだわ!感情くん
I_am_BEOWULF
原文
The expense/mode of difficulty to achieve their mission and military theater objectives have significantly risen and they keep pushing the envelope because all the domestic leadership is seeing from the rear are the results/victories. Logistics are stretched thin, with a lot of their victories just being a coin toss due to luck falling on their side (not being spotted while traveling aground deep into enemy territory, luckily happening upon the hidden enemy HQ, etc) . Domestic leadership wants more decisive victories in order to be in a position of leverage for negotiations, ignoring the fact at how dangerously exposed their military positions now are. They're pushing their luck at this point.
任務を達成するためのコストや難易度は明らかに上がってるのに、国内の上層部は結果と勝利しか見てないから、軍は限界まで無理を続けてるんだよね。補給線はボロボロで、勝利の多くは運任せのギャンブル状態(敵地深くを移動中に発見されなかったり、偶然敵の司令部を見つけたりとか)。国内の指導部は交渉材料のためにもっと決定的な勝利を求めてるけど、軍の立場がどれだけ危険に晒されてるか無視してる。もう運を試しすぎだよ。普通くん
Emi_Ibarazakiii
原文
Poor Zettour suffering for two weeks straight now, though I fear a schism might have opened now between him and Rudersdorf. To give him credit where it's due: Even Rudersdorf expressed doubts about the mission in their last meeting... But he's a soldier at heart still (I was thinking about this when he said "As long as I can sleep, doesn't matter where I sleep"). His view is "I'm not sure about the mission, but if the people above say it's a go, then it's a go". While Zettour thinks "I'm not sure about the mission, so I should try to change their mind".
かわいそうに、ゼートゥーアはもう二週間ずっと苦しんでるな。ただ、これでルーデルスドルフとの間に亀裂が入ったかもしれないのが心配だ。彼に敬意を表するところは表したい:最後の会議でルーデルスドルフも任務に疑問を呈していた。しかし彼は根っからの軍人なんだろうな(「眠れればどこでも寝られる」という発言にそれが表れてる)。彼の考えは「任務に確信はないが、上層部がやれと言うならやる」というもの。一方ゼートゥーアは「任務に確信がないなら、上層部の考えを変えるべきだ」と考えるタイプだ。考察くん
Conscious_Pack_2474
This opinion of Zettour makes him seem illogical. Rudersdorf is just the model soldier, and Zettour is a strategist at heart. A decision won't be made until both see eye to eye, in so doing they cater for each others weaknesses. That's how it has been
ゼットゥーアの意見は一見非論理的に見えるけど、ルーデルスドルフはただの模範兵士で、ゼットゥーアは根っからの戦略家やろ。二人が合意せんと決定は下されへん。そうやって互いの弱点を補ってるんや。今までずっとそうやったんやで。2ちゃん
Emi_Ibarazakiii
This opinion of Zettour makes him seem illogical I'm not sure why you think so? While Zettour thinks "I'm not sure about the mission, so I should try to change their mind". I mean this in a way like... "Hey, I think I'm going to pick up a fight with the football team's linebacker!" Zettour: "I'm not sure about this... Maybe you shouldn't do that"
ゼットゥーアのこの意見は非論理的に見えるけど、なんでそう思うのか分からないな。ゼットゥーアは「任務に確信が持てないから、考えを変えさせよう」って思ってるんだよね。つまり、こんな感じかな…「俺、フットボールチームのラインバッカーと喧嘩しようと思うんだ!」ゼットゥーア:「それには確信が持てないな…やめておいた方がいいと思うよ」普通くん
Conscious_Pack_2474
原文
I get your angle but it's not an accurate depiction. Because they're close friends they kinda act like one brain. If ruderdolf comes up with a plan, zettour is already thinking the same thing cos he knows him. So zettour thinks within Ruderdolfs frame of thinking. So the kind of friction you depicted in your example. doesn't really happen in the anime. The only time we've seen them not seeing the same thing with the anime is current ep
君の視点は理解できるが、正確な描写とは言えないな。二人は親友同士で、まるで一つの脳を共有しているかのように動くんだ。ルーデルドルフが作戦を思いつけば、ゼートゥーアは彼を知り尽くしているから既に同じことを考えている。つまりゼートゥーアはルーデルドルフの思考の枠組みの中で思考しているわけだ。だから君が例示したような摩擦は、アニメでは実際には起こらない。二人の見解が食い違うのを見られたのは、現行エピソードくらいのものだな。考察くん
OkBox9662
原文
It doesn’t make him illogical. Just because Zettour is now showing this big desire to end the war once and for all doesn’t mean he never had it. We just didn’t see it until now. He is a strategist at heart like you said. He knows where to cut his losses. This was literally their one big chance to finally end this senseless fight and Ruderdolfs fucking said “Bet, I’ll throw as many corpses as I need to maintain the illusion of absolute victory”. He is aware of the thin chain of support, he fucking said it will be “difficult” to win any more fights and yet he still let those assholes that have never put a foot in the battlefield taunt him !!!! Zettour agreeing with the government fuckers if anything would truly make him seem illogical.
確かに彼が非論理的ってわけじゃないな。ツェトーアが戦争終結に強い執念を見せてるのは今になって明らかになっただけで、前から持ってた可能性はある。彼は本質的に戦略家で、損切りポイントをわかってる。これこそが無意味な戦いを終わらせる唯一の大チャンスだったのに、ルーデルドルフが「絶対勝利の幻想を守るためなら死体をいくらでも積む」って言い出したんだ。支援が脆いって自覚してるし、これ以上の勝利は「難しい」とまで言ったのに、戦場を知らない連中に挑発されて動かされてる。むしろ政府側に同調する方が非論理的に見えるわ。普通くん
saga999
I think Rudersdorf is struggling between reason and emotion. In front of the grave, he said, "Does this make up for my sins at least a little?" I believe that he thinks winning makes up for his sins. So even though logically speaking, he believes they should end the war, emotionally, he wants to keep fighting.
ルーダースドルフは理性と感情の間で揺れとるンゴな。墓前で「これで俺の罪が少しは償えるか」って言うたやろ。ワイは勝つことが罪の償いになると思っとるんやと思うわ。せやから理屈では戦争終わらすべきやと分かっとるけど、感情的に戦い続けたいんやろな。2ちゃん
OkBox9662
Which is as imbecile and dumb as a person can humanly get. But hey ! We have never been blamed for being extremely rational beings.
まじでバカすぎじゃね?人間としてどうなのってレベルなんだけど笑 でも別に俺らがめっちゃ合理的な生き物だって言われたことなんて一度もないしね〜ギャル
pjepja
原文
We saw this in the last episode. Rudersdorf, just like Weiss, knows that peace talks are better, but can't accept it on a human level. Tanya was always Zettour's prodigy because they think about things extremely similarly. They are too logical, which Tanya realises and tries to account for, but is not always successful. She even criticises Zettour's plans because of it, but still falls victim to the mindset.
前回のエピソードで見えたけど、ルーデルスドルフもヴァイスと同じで平和交渉が最善だと分かってるのに、人間として受け入れられないんだよね。ターニャがいつもゼートゥアーのお気に入りなのは、二人の考え方がすごく似てるからだと思う。論理的すぎるところがあって、ターニャはそれを自覚して修正しようとするけど、いつもうまくいくわけじゃない。そのせいでゼートゥアーの作戦を批判することもあるけど、結局その思考パターンに陥っちゃうんだよな。普通くん
OldInstruction5368
原文
Rudersdorf was a hot head last season, but it seems the death of his future son-in-law and how badly that impacted his wife and daughter has broken him. The clear implication being that his daughter's fiance was a soldier who fell in the war. Which then fractured his family. Leading the old soldier to lose his moral support while stewing alone in his grief. He's lost what rationality he had and can no longer look at the war through an objective lens. Ruder has become a broken man.
ルーダースドルフは前シーズンでは血の気の多い男だったが、未来の義理の息子の死が妻と娘に与えた影響の大きさに、彼は折れてしまったようだ。明確に示唆されているのは、娘の婚約者が戦争で倒れた兵士だったこと。それが家族を崩壊させ、老兵は孤独に悲しみを抱えながら精神的な支えを失った。彼はかつての理性を失い、もはや戦争を客観視できなくなっている。ルーダーは壊れた男になった、という考察ができる。考察くん
OkBox9662
Misery loves company as they say. Now he can heart broke even more families when their sons and daughters never make it back.
misery loves companyってやつやな。これで息子娘が帰ってこんかったら、さらに多くの家族が悲しむことになるんやろな。2ちゃん
Emi_Ibarazakiii
Sure Tanya's unit has kept winning their battles, but that is just one unit. The Empire is trying to think of a strategy about cutting Tanya in multiple operative pieces to send her to different places at once. not US hasn't even fully entered the ring. Imagine if Tanya manage to secure what seems to be an inevitable victory against all odds... ...Then they get fucked nuked.
ターニャの部隊は確かに勝ち続けているが、それはあくまで一つの部隊に過ぎない。帝国はターニャを複数の作戦単位に分割し、同時に異なる戦線へ送り込む戦略を模索している。まだアメリカが本格参戦していない段階だ。もしターニャが絶望的な状況下でほぼ確実な勝利を掴み取ったとしても……その後で核で吹き飛ばされる展開が想像できる。これは伏線の一つとして考察できるな。考察くん
Conscious_Pack_2474
It's unlikely they'd be nuked. There is no way for a strat. bomber to make it to a key city without it being intercepted.
核攻撃される可能性は低いよ。戦略爆撃機が迎撃されずに主要都市まで到達する方法なんて絶対ないからな。感情くん
Nachtwandler_FS
Also, nukes are not invented yet.
つーかさ、まだ核兵器とかない時代じゃん!やばくね?笑ギャル
gvon89
We dont know that since this war blends both world wars together. At some point the Unified States might announce they have one.
この戦争は第一次大戦と第二次大戦が混ざってるから、まだわからないね。そのうち統一国家が持ってるって発表するかもしれないし。普通くん
BatteryPoweredFriend
Being X has already so generously provided Notmerica with a nuke. It even flies and has Tanya-homing guidance when deployed in the vicinity.
もうBeing Xがノットメリカに核を恵んでくれてるんだけど!しかもちゃんと飛ぶし、ターニャの近くに展開すればホーミング誘導まで付いてくるってマジ優勝すぎるッ!感情くん
Equivalent_Tax6989
Maybe Magic Oppenheimer is making a magic nuke that needs blood sacrifices or something?
もしかしたら魔法オッペンハイマーが生贄とか必要な魔法の核兵器を作ってるのかもな?普通くん
OkBox9662
I imagine that if a Nuke or an equivalent weapon of destructive power existed they would have already used it ages ago. Mages seem to be the nukes of this verse. Tanya could sure as hell be considered one.
ワイの考えやけど、核兵器みたいなもんが存在したらとっくに使われとるやろ。この世界で魔導師が核兵器みたいなもんやな。ターニャは間違いなくその一人やろな。2ちゃん
Routine-Hovercraft94
原文
I'd argue it was always pretty obvious that this was not going to be some happy ending anime where Tanya and Being-X become bros and Germa- I mean the empire would win the war. Being-X most likely would rather see the entire world burn than let Tanya get away with being a heathen and have her a a nice cozy life. But yeah, the usual politicians. Back then, today, mostly no difference. It is all self interest and they rather soak the ground with blood than taking an obvious win. From here on it is only going downhill.
確かに、最初からターニャと存在Xが和解して帝国が戦争に勝つようなハッピーエンドになるとは思えなかったよね。存在Xはターニャが無神論者として楽に生きるのを許すくらいなら、世界を燃やし尽くす方を選びそうだし。でもまあ、政治家は昔も今も変わらないな。自分の利益優先で、明らかな勝利よりも血を流す方を選ぶ。ここから先は下り坂しかないね。普通くん
AlphaBreak
The happiest ending I see going forward is Tanya doing a military coup to replace the empire's leaders who keep insisting on shoving as many soldiers into the meat grinder as possible. Then she surrenders on behalf of the empire to go back to pre war borders.
この先の展開で一番ハッピーエンドだと考察するなら、ターニャが帝国の指導者たちを軍事的クーデターで排除するルートだな。奴らは可能な限り多くの兵士を肉挽き機に突っ込もうとし続けてるからな。その後、帝国の代表として降伏して戦前の国境に戻る、と。これが一番現実的な着地点だと思われる。考察くん
Cross_Toss
AU where Tanya takes all of her savings, kidnaps Visha, and flees to the Unified States
ターニャが貯金全部持ってヴィーシャ誘拐して統一暦に逃げちゃうパラレルワールドか普通くん
5kyGuardian
原文
It's kinda funny that in season 1 they kept talking how it's going to be the world war and how it means sooner or later US will join and everybody was taking it very seriously, yet now only Zettour seems to remember it and everyone else only seem to focus on this one enemy to the east. Plus during these talks of WW Tanya told them the main focus should be keeping their casualties to minimum and they agreed with it but now it's all about more sacrifices.
シーズン1では世界大戦とか米国参戦とかみんな真剣に語っとったのに、今やZettourしか覚えてないんかよ草 しかもターニャが「被害最小化が最優先」って言った時は全員納得しとったくせに、今は犠牲増やしまくりやん 話の整合性ガバガバやろwww2ちゃん
saga999
It's the age old the rear can't see the realities in the front. They can. They choose not to.
前線の現実を後方の連中が見えないって、それは古い話だろ。いや、見えてるんだよ。見て見ぬふりしてるだけだッ!感情くん
Abedeus
defensive war is tough, barely working out until they find pro-peace allies one last counter-offensive successful with minimal supply LET'S GO ALL OUT, FUCK IT, FULL WAR! Holy fucking shit. Tanya would do well to find a different country to support...
防衛戦は厳しいな。和平派の味方を見つけるまでなんとか持ちこたえて、最後の反撃が最小限の補給で成功したら、もう全力で行こうぜ、クソ食らえ、全面戦争だ!マジでやばい。ターニャは別の国を支援した方がいいんじゃないか…普通くん
OldInstruction5368
原文
If it isn't clear by now, the Empire is now doomed. They've already clearly been stretched very thin by now on the Eastern front and not Britain and not US hasn't even fully entered the ring. Just going to add that I rewatched the series recently, and pretty much the first scene in Not-Germany HQ was a discussion of strained logistics forcing a retreat of the front lines. That was the earliest phase of the war, before the Entente ever invaded! We are years past that with multiple new players having jumped into the game. The real miracle is that the Empire has held out so long with no real allies. This was truly their last chance to sue for peace and lick their wounds.
今や帝国の敗北は明白だと言わざるを得ない。東部戦線で既に兵力が限界まで引き伸ばされており、英国も米国も本格参戦すらしていない状況だ。最近シリーズを見返したんだが、帝国司令部の最初のシーンで、兵站の逼迫による前線撤退の議論が描かれていた。あれは戦争序盤、連合国が侵攻する前の段階だったんだ。それから数年が経過し、新たな参戦国も増えている。真の奇跡は、帝国が真の同盟国を持たずにここまで持ちこたえたことだ。和平を模索し傷を癒す最後の機会だったろうな。考察くん
SnabDedraterEdave
Tanya could have had her chance of appearing in photos for the history books, if only Visha had not forgotten to remove the lid off the camera. Sunk cost fallacy has reared its ugly head again, and this time it has infected even the politicians at Imperial High Command. Zettour and Tanya are on their own now.
ターニャも歴史の教科書に載る写真に写るチャンスがあったのに、ヴィーシャがカメラのレンズキャップ外し忘れなきゃな。埋没費用の誤謬がまた顔を出してるな、今回は帝国参謀本部の政治家たちまで感染してる。ゼートゥーアとターニャはもう孤立無援だね。普通くん
Magicbison
As usual politicians are so concerned with keeping their own power they're unwilling to make the right choice to save the country because it would make them look bad.
政治家ってやっぱり権力守るのが最優先やな。国救う正しい選択しても自分が格好悪くなるならやらんって、マジでクソやわwww2ちゃん
Alacune
"Make them look bad" is an understatement. They discussed the ramifications, such as the collapse of the social elite or a potential civil war. From their perspective, the country is doomed UNLESS total victory is achieved.
「やつらを貶める」って表現は控えめすぎるね。彼らは社会的エリートの崩壊や内戦の可能性まで話し合ってたんだ。彼らの視点からすると、完全勝利を収めない限り国は終わりだってことだよ。普通くん
Pecuthegreat
Nah, they can be careful about the civil war and social unrest, that is what Zettour would have done but this is like, trying to avoid the likely using the impossible.
いやいや、内戦とか社会不安には気をつけられるじゃん?それがゼートゥアーならやったと思うんだけど、これはさ、ありえないこと使って避けようとしてる感じなんだけど笑 まじで無理ゲーじゃね?ギャル
Emi_Ibarazakiii
if only Visha had not forgotten to remove the lid off the camera. Sometimes I fear for her life because they seem to raise death flags on her.. But when she pulls a move like that, she shows herself as a comedic relief; Surely you can't kill the comedic relief, right?
ヴィーシャがカメラのレンズキャップ外し忘れなければなあ。時々彼女の命が心配になるよ、死亡フラグ立ちまくってる気がするし。でもああいうドジやるとコメディリリーフだって分かるじゃん。コメディリリーフは殺せないでしょ、さすがに?普通くん
Kirosh2
Of course not. At least not until the end. Where her death, while trying to save Tanya, will just be horrific, heroic, and badass. All the while Tanya crashes out, ordering her to stop her sacrifice, only to be told no.
もちろんやないわ。せめて最後まではな。ターニャ救おうとして死ぬとこは、壮絶で英雄的でガチかっこいいやろ。その間ターニャはブチギレて「犠牲になるな」って命令するんやけど、却下されて終わりやで。2ちゃん
Emi_Ibarazakiii
Tanya crashes out, ordering her to stop her sacrifice, only to be told no. Tanya would chase her into the afterlife to get back at her for disobeying orders But joking aside, that could be some punishment from Being X...
ターニャが激昂し、彼女の犠牲を止めるよう命令するが、「ノー」と言われてしまう。命令違反の報復として、ターニャは彼女を追って来世まで行くかもしれない。冗談はさておき、これは存在Xからの何らかの罰である可能性が考察できるな。考察くん
Abedeus
"Major tells me no, that means she cares about me!" "NO YOU IDIOT I CAN HANDLE IT MYSELF!" "I'm coming to your help, Major!"
「少佐が俺にダメって言うってことは、俺のこと気にかけてくれてるってことだろ!」「違うバカ、自分でやれる!」「少佐、助けに行くぞ!」普通くん
baseballlover723
原文
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すまん、コメント削除されたわ。タグ付けミスや未タグのネタバレっぽいで。ネタバレタグ付ける時は[]で文脈示せや、例:[作品名]>!タグ付けテキスト!<みたいにな。詳細はリンク先見てくれ。質問あればmodmailかメタスレで。ルール知らん奴は読んでこい。2ちゃん
Hot-Log6283
Surely you can't kill the comedic relief, right? The fact that they said "No matter what the cost" at the end and then in the post ED show Tanya and her troops in a light moment have me really worry for all of them.
コメディリリーフは殺されないでしょ、さすがに。でも最後に「どんな代償を払っても」って言った後、ED後にターニャたちの和やかなシーンが来たのは、逆に全員が心配になってきたわ。普通くん
hanmkim
Surely the comic relief who loves food can't be killed off with her last word being her favorite food...
食いしん坊のコミックリリーフ枠が、大好物の名前を遺言に消えるとか……ありえへんやろwww2ちゃん
OkBox9662
That was low…
それはひどすぎるだろ…普通くん
rollin340
They're the only 2 that really wanted to end the war through the negotiations no matter the cost. The terms given in this episode was a gift from the heavens, and yet, it was tossed aside by asinine pencil pushers.
この2人は、どんな代償を払ってでも交渉による戦争終結を本気で望んでいた唯一の存在だ。今回のエピソードで提示された条件は天からの贈り物だったのに、愚かな机上の空論家たちによって投げ捨てられてしまった。考察くん
BosuW
Tanya could have had her chance of appearing in photos for the history books, if only Visha had not forgotten to remove the lid off the camera. She's just doing counter-intelligence in advance!
ヴィーシャがカメラのレンズキャップ外し忘れなければ、ターニャも歴史の写真に載るチャンスあったのにね。彼女は先回りしてカウンターインテリジェンスしてるだけだよ!普通くん
HugeRichard11
Might be better there aren't any recorded photos of Tanya as when they lose they might get hunted down or worse
記録された写真が無い方が良いかもな 負けたら追われるか、もっと酷い目に遭うかもしれんしな2ちゃん
MysteryNine
There are. In episode 2 of S1, there's a scene where they take a picture of Tanya dressed up as a doll. They also recorded propaganda when they went to Moscow and the executive from the Federation has a photo of her.
あるよ。S1の2話でターニャがドールの格好で写真撮られるシーンがあったじゃん。モスクワ行った時にプロパガンダ映像も撮ってたし、連邦の幹部も彼女の写真持ってるんだよね。普通くん
JustASumoGuy
Wouldn't it be better for Tanya not to have photos of herself taken so that it would be easier to go into hiding after the fall of the Empire?
ターニャは写真撮らせない方がよくない?帝国崩壊後の潜伏が楽になるだろ!ッて思うけど、まあ作画的には必要だしな…でもそういう現実的な懸念も分かるわ。感情くん
MysteryNine
But there are recorded photos of her. In episode 2 of Season 1. In the propaganda they recorded when they went to Moscow. Even Loria (Bald guy) from the Federation has a photo of her.
でも彼女の写真は記録されてるんだよ。第1期の第2話で、モスクワに行った時に撮ったプロパガンダ映像に写ってた。連邦のローリア(ハゲのおっさん)も彼女の写真を持ってるしね。普通くん
simon249
It manged to work this time with encirclement, but yeah now it's a step to far
今回は包囲作戦がうまくいったけど、さすがにこれはやりすぎじゃね?笑ギャル
OldInstruction5368
原文
It was absolutely sickening to hear the politicians talk about "our sacrifice" while dismissing the opinions of the military... the ones actually watching good men and women die on a daily basis. Many of you will have to die, but that is a sacrifice we are willing to make Ruder, mustache man, could have backed up Zettour in giving the clueless politicians a reality check... but grief has broken him. Hence why Zettour was clenching his fists so tight he bled. He now knows he can't trust his old friend anymore.
政治家たちが「我々の犠牲」なんて言いながら、実際に毎日いい人たちが死ぬのを見てる軍人たちの意見を無視するの、ほんと吐き気がするわ。お前ら多くは死ぬだろうが、それは我々が喜んで受け入れる犠牲だってな。ルーダーや口ひげ野郎は、無知な政治家に現実を見せつけるゼットーアを支援できたはずなのに…悲しみで壊れてたんだな。だからゼットーアは拳を握りしめて血が出るほどだったんだ。もう昔の友人は信頼できないって悟ったんだよ。普通くん
DawgDictator
I love the politics side of this anime more every week. I was expecting more resistance from Rudersdorf, but I suspect he has also fallen to the sunk cost fallacy like so many others.
まじで毎週このアニメの政治パートが好きすぎるんだけど!ルーデルスドルフがもっと抵抗すると思ってたのに、他のみんなみたいにサンクコストの罠にハマっちゃったっぽくない?やばくね!?ギャル
Vanderseid
I think he is swayed by his son in law's death and the effects it had on his family. It's clear that it weighed heavily on him so he probably also fell into that is his death meaningless mindset if they just call it quits now.
彼は義理の息子の死と、それが家族に与えた影響に揺れているんだと思う。それが彼に重くのしかかっていたのは明らかだし、今ここで手を引けば「彼の死が無意味になる」って考えにも陥ってたかもしれないね。普通くん
DawgDictator
Yeah, he seems to have lost his reason for emotion. I think the last hopes for the Empire is with Zettour and Rerugen
確かに、奴は感情の意味を失っちまったな…。帝国の最後の希望はゼートゥーアとレルゲンに懸かってると思うッ!感情くん
Magicbison
To be fair Rudersdorf was already thinking that way when the initial peace treaty was written up. The death of his son-in-law and its effect on his family kinda just made him double down which sucks for every citizen and soldier.
まあ公平に言うと、ルーデルスドルフは最初の平和条約が書かれた時点で既にそう考えてたんだよね。義理の息子の死とそれが家族に与えた影響で、ただ頑固になっただけ。それは国民や兵士にとっては本当に最悪だな。普通くん
BosuW
原文
To be fair Rudersdorf was already thinking that way when the initial peace treaty was written up. Though, at least the offensive this episode can be justified because it was in pursuit of getting the Empire more favorable conditions in the peace deal, instead of the base "fucking nothing for all sides" that Zettour was willing to consider. Did his son-in-law die between the episodes? Because that would certainly explain the switch up from something that was risky but justifiable, to all or nothing behavior.
ルーデルスドルフは最初の講和条約の時点で既にそう考えてたんやな。まあ、今回の攻勢は帝国に有利な講和条件を引き出すためのもんやから、ゼットーアが考えてた「全員ボロ負け」みたいな案よりはまだ正当化できるわ。でも嫁の父親、エピソードの合間に死んだんか?それならリスクあるけど妥当やった作戦から、オールオアナッシングに変わった理由も説明つくンゴけどな。2ちゃん
Magicbison
原文
Did his son-in-law die between the episodes? Because that would certainly explain the switch up from something that was risky but justifiable, to all or nothing behavior. Not really sure on that part. I think this episode was the first time it was brought up. But the last few episodes have shown us that national pride is very much strong when it comes to ending the war. Even Tanya's soldiers and officers have a similar mindset with the sunk cost fallacy affecting Rudersdorf and High Command.
彼の義理の息子がエピソードの間に死んだのか?それならリスクはあるが正当化できる行動から、オール・オア・ナッシングな行動に変わった理由が説明できるけどな。その辺はよくわからないけど。今回のエピソードで初めて言及された気がする。でも最近のエピソードで、戦争終結に関しては国としての誇りがかなり強いって見せられてるよな。ターニャの兵士や将校たちも似たような考え方だし、ルーデルスドルフや参謀本部も埋没費用の罠にかかってる感じだな。普通くん
ggg730
I think the problem is that a lot of the citizens and soldiers feel the same way as Rudersdorf.
確かにルーダースドルフに共感する市民や兵士が多いのが問題だよね。まじでわかるわ。ギャル