+819
Only_Arachnid_6472
yeah he looks like more like a rogue than a leader but we have yet more to discover because of how mighty and big dokuga and his group talk about him. take natsuki she genuinly looks upto the boss because he brings hope to those who arent able to use magic or have useless magic. the boss is a savior figure in all the cross eyes' eyes
確かに。カイマン=アイカワ説は筋が通ってるな。ただ、現時点ではアイカワがリーダー然とした佇まいより、どちらかというと反逆者っぽく見えるんだよな。でも十字目の連中がドクガやその一派を通じて語るボスの威光を考えると、まだ謎が多い。
夏樹が純粋にボスを崇拝してるのは、魔法が使えない者や役立たずの魔法しか持たない者に希望を与える存在だからだ。つまり、十字目にとってボスは救世主として機能していると考察できる。この構造、ドロヘドロのテーマである「弱者と力の在り方」を象徴してる気がする。考察くん+67
Devoidoxatom
yeah in that 1 month timeskip, the cross eyes seem to have been doing something, the boss might actually be leading instead of just being batsht insane lol
確かにあの1ヶ月のタイムスキップの間、クロスアイズは何かやってたみたいだし、ボスもただの狂人ってわけじゃなくてリーダーとして動いてたのかもね笑普通くん+29
Equivalent-Weather59
Kai man, c Ai man, and Aikawa sounds kinda like both. Really creative with your names Caiman lol
カイマン、cアイマン、アイカワ…どれも似てる響きだな。名前のセンスすごいわカイマンwww感情くん+49
Doomroar
原文
> Caiman is Aikawa, Risu’s friend who killed him for some reason and got cursed by Risu’s magic.
No neither Caiman nor Aikawa killed Risu, and we also know the reason behind the murder
Risu bought the magic devealing tech from En and tried on himself, and learned that he had Curse Magic, then he told his best friend Aikawa
Thanks to that the Cross Eyes Boss Kai, founds out that Risu has a rare magic, and gives the order to kill Risu in order to take his devil tumor and steal his magic
Aikawa doesn't knows that his other personality Kai, is the boss of the Cross Eyes, or that he killed Risu
And Risu thinks that Aikawa and Kai are the same person, and that he was just being played for a fool
So... it seems like Kai gets access to Aikawa's memories, but Aikawa doesn't gets access to anyone's memories other than himself, he doesn't even gets to keep his memories as Caiman, and if Kai also gets access to Caiman's memories, that means he may go after Nikado next
それ違うよ。カイマンもアイカワもリスの殺し屋じゃないし、殺害の理由も判明してるんだ。
リスはエンから魔法可視化技術を買って自分に試したら呪い魔法持ちだと判明。それを親友のアイカワに打ち明けたんだ。
それを知ったクロスアイズのボス・カイが、リスの珍しい魔法を狙って殺害命令を出した。アイカワは自分の別人格カイがクロスアイズのボスだって知らないし、自分がリスを殺したことも知らない。
リスはアイカワとカイが同一人物で、自分は利用されただけだと思ってる。
つまり、カイはアイカワの記憶にアクセスできるけど、アイカワは自分の記憶以外にはアクセスできない。カイマンとしての記憶すら保持できないんだ。もしカイがカイマンの記憶にもアクセスできるなら、次は二階堂を狙う可能性があるね。普通くん+44
The_nickums
> Aikawa doesn't knows that his other personality Kai, is the boss of the Cross Eyes, or that he killed Risu
An important note here is that they are actually different people. Which is why the Curse was dormant for a while, and we got that scene of him re-activating when the Kai personality took over. Also why Curse doesn't take over to attack Aikawa
> 相川は自分の別人格・カイが十字目(クロスアイズ)のボスであり、自分がリスの殺害者だとは知らない。
ここで重要なのは、彼らが実際には別人格だという点だ。だからこそ呪いは一時的に休眠状態になり、カイの人格が乗っ取った際に再活性化するシーンが描かれたんだろう。また、呪いが相川を襲わないのも、その分離が理由だと思われる。考察くん+32
Zeph-Shoir
Ooh it actively treats the different personalities as different people all together, interesting, makes sense too!
マジで!?てか別人格を完全に別の人間として扱ってるってことじゃん!面白いし納得もできるわ〜!ギャル+7
AvatarTuner
> he doesn't even gets to keep his memories as Caiman
I actually think he does remember *something* at least and was lying to Nikaido the other episode. Maybe he distanced himself from her because he knows something is off with him even if he has no memories of Kai's actions.
確かに、カイマンとしての記憶すら完全には残ってないってのは辛いな。でも俺は少なくとも何かしら覚えてて、この前のエピソードで二階堂に嘘ついてたと思うんだよね。カイの行動の記憶がなくても、自分に何かおかしいと気づいて距離置いてたのかも。普通くん+9
nofaxxspitintruflego
i mean before he was all cuckoo bet he was a goated leader, and they still romanticize that version of him
poor bros q\_q
それな!カイマン(=アイカワ)が頭おかしくなる前はめっちゃ良いリーダーだったんだろうな〜って思うし、今でもみんなその頃の彼を美化してるとこあるじゃん?笑
仲間たちが不憫すぎるんだけど泣けるわ…q\_qギャル+15
PM_ME_FUTA_PEACH
The curse thing went back to Risu when Caiman "died" in the spa place, right?
呪いの件、カイマンが温泉施設で“死んだ”時にリスに戻ったんだよね?普通くん+11
SpikeRosered
So did the curse create the killer personality?
つまり呪いが殺人鬼の人格を作ったってこと?やばくね!?ギャル+7
Hounds_of_war
原文
Nah the cross eyes were already founded at that point and Risu said his killer had cross eye marks. Having gone back through Risu’s flashback and Dokuga’s comments about why the boss disappeared and Risu’s flashback we got in this episode, it seems like:
* Risu used some kind of test to discover he had curse magic and told Aikawa
* Kai takes over, decides he wants curse magic and kills Risu so he can take it like he took En’s mushroom magic, but that triggers the curse.
* *Something* happens that leads to Kai/Aikawa’s headless body winding up in the hole, Risu’s curse trapped inside him, and Ebisu’s magic cast on him causing his head to regrow as a lizard head.
いや、その時点で既にクロスアイは確認されてたし、リスも殺人鬼にはクロスアイの印があったって言ってたんだよ。リスの回想と、ドクガがボスが消えた理由について話してたシーン、今回のエピソードでのリスの回想を合わせると、こういう流れっぽい:
* リスは何かのテストで自分に呪いの魔法があることに気づいて、アイカワに伝えた
* カイが乗っ取って、呪いの魔法が欲しいって決めて、エンのキノコ魔法を奪ったみたいにリスを殺して奪おうとしたけど、それが呪いを引き起こした
* *何か*が起きて、カイ/アイカワの首なしの遺体が穴に落ちて、リスの呪いが体内に閉じ込められ、エビスの魔法で頭がトカゲとして再生した普通くん+66
Virtual-Campaign8998
But why does he regrow head at all?
いやいや、でもなんで頭再生できんの?やばくね!?笑ギャル+17
MokonaModokiES
no i imagine curse just forced Kai to never show up since curse didnt seem to care about Caiman or Aikawa it only reacted to Kai.
So Kai just was on sleep mode
いや、呪いは単にカイを出させなかっただけだと思う。呪いはカイマンやアイカワには反応せず、カイにだけ反応してたしな。つまりカイはスリープモードだったってことだね。普通くん+21
Useful_Project4898
Kai came out of hibernation when he got a dose of his own smoke... at least that's what I think happened 😄
確かに!カイは自分の煙を浴びて冬眠から目覚めたんだと思う…少なくとも俺はそう解釈したよ😄感情くん+9
oB3NoT3Xo
cross eyes already formed by then as we see in today's flashback so probably not? maybe there's a third personality, Kai, Ai, and Aikawa?
確かに!今日の回想シーン見る限り、もうその時点でクロスアイズは形成されてたっぽいし、呪いで殺人鬼になったわけじゃなさそうじゃね?てかカイ、アイ、アイカワで第三の人格がいるかもって話、やばくない!?ギャル+8
GameDay98
The Cross Eyes and Kai are really giving off some Fight Club/Tyler Durden vibes now that we know Kai is a split personality of Akaiwa.
草、カイとクロスアイズって完全にファイトクラブやん
つまりカイは赤岩の多重人格ってことか
せやな、そらそうなるわな2ちゃん+8
NoHead1715
I think it's more like Aikawa is the split personality. Ai Coleman fell into the sludge and became Kai. Whether Aikawa emerged from there, or only after Kusakabe operated on him, is not clear. I lean towards the latter, where Kusakabe probably tweaked Kai's brain and created Aikawa.
確かに、アイカワは解離性同一性障害的な存在だと思う。アイ・コールマンが泥に落ちてカイになり、その後にクサカベがカイの脳をいじってアイカワを作り出した可能性が高いんじゃないかな。どっちにせよ、この辺の設定はまだ不明瞭だね。普通くん+5
za_shiki-warashi
I kyaa'd at the scene where Noi wakes up Shin with a kiss.
Also, reading the mood, Shouwagon withdraws coolly.
やばっ!ノイがシンにキスで起こすシーンで私もきゃーってなったんだけど!!笑
しかもショウワゴンが空気読んで颯爽と退散するの、まじアツくね?ギャル+167
Devoidoxatom
damn i forgot about Shou already. his character is hilarious 😆
確かに!ショウの存在忘れてたわ。彼のキャラクター面白すぎる😂感情くん+65
somersault_dolphin
As someone who read the manga years ago while it was on-going, he's also the only member of the En family I couldn't quite remember.
Edit: Trying to recall my memory further. I did actually remember and got excited when I saw him in season 1, and then I forgot again this season until I started going back to the manga the previous episode.
確かに、俺も昔連載中に漫画読んでたんだけど、エン家の中で唯一ちゃんと覚えてなかったキャラだわ。
編集:さらに思い出してみたら、シーズン1で見た時はちゃんと覚えてて興奮したんだけど、今シーズンは前回の話で原作に戻るまでまた忘れてたんだよね。普通くん+45
Dale-Wensley
literal genius tier writing tbh
まじでそれ!エン家の中で唯一、作者の筆力が光りまくってるキャラじゃん!天才的な書き方すぎるわ〜ギャル+30
TokiVideogame
the best ship
「能井がキスでシンを起こすシーンでキャーってなったのわかる~ッ!」
あと、場の空気読んで静かに退散する翔和田コンビもグッジョブすぎる。
最高のカップルすぎるッ!推せる!!!感情くん+53
nofaxxspitintruflego
its funny how shin is the hot and bothered tsundere here and not the girl lmao
それなw まじでシンがツンデレで女の子じゃないの草wwwwwおじ+35
TokiVideogame
devils and devil candidates are above that
確かに!心が悪魔とか候補生はそれを超越してるよね(笑)でもそれ以上にこのシュンとノイのやり取りがエモすぎるッ!感情くん+16
NanDemoKnaives
The moment is even more special with Shin naked lol.
草、能井がキスでシンを起こすシーンでワイも「きゃあ」ってなったわwww
しかもその流れでしょうわごんがクールに退散するのガチで草生えるンゴww
シン裸なのがさらに特別な瞬間にしてるやろwww2ちゃん+24
za_shiki-warashi
"Gold? Can't wipe your ass with that crap! Now, toilet paper, that stuff is the real treasure"
Team (formerly) Poverty gets what's truly important in life.
黄金だと?そんな俗物で尻を拭けると思うか?いや、真の宝とはトイレットペーパー、それこそが我が人生の奇跡的アイテムよ!
かつて貧困の闇に沈みし者たちよ、ついにこの世で最も崇高な真理を手に入れたのだ。中二病+151
Life_Is_A_Mistry
Gold can buy many toilet rolls
金はトイレットペーパー何個分にもなるんだぜw 貧乏チーム(元)の言い分も分かるけどな笑wwwおじ+31
fatcatburrito
Fuck gold, I need tp for my bunghole
ふざけんな金なんて、俺はケツ拭く紙が欲しいんだよ。ドライおじ+25
Useful_Project4898
This is so unbelievably true/real.
If you can't eat it, build with it or wipe your ass with it, where's the actual value?
まさに真理を突いた言葉よ。食えず、建てられず、尻すら拭けぬものに、いったい何の価値があるというのだ?我ら貧困の徒は、太古の昔から知っている——真の富とは、己の生存を支えるものだけだと。中二病+25
professorMaDLib
The author really loved caiman so much she made 4 different ones
作者、カイマン愛が強すぎて別バージョンを4体も作っちゃったのかよッ!優勝すぎるだろ!感情くん+126
Volfaer
Caiman, Aikawa, Ai and Kai, it's like when you play the same DND character multiple times with minimal changes.
確かに、カイマン、アイカワ、アイ、カイって、DNDで同じキャラをちょっと変えて何度も使ってる感じだよね。普通くん+73
SixCatsInAnAlley
Fun fact, Shou is in the outro! The last time the elevator doors open, you can see bloody footsteps appear out of the blood puddle before Chidamura left
やばっ!知らんかったんだけど、EDにショウが隠れてるんだって!最後にエレベーターのドアが開く時、血だまりから血の足跡が出てきて、千村が去る前のシーンらしいよ!まじで細かすぎるでしょ笑ギャル+127
somersault_dolphin
Not just that, nearer to the beginning when Noi and Shin were getting out, Shin threw the chicken bone and it bounced off something invisible.
それだけではござらぬ。序盤にNoiとShinが降りる際、Shinが投げた鶏の骨が何か見えぬものに跳ね返っておったのでござる。武士+57
flashmozzg
Also the elevator.
それな!エレベーターのシーンもやばかったじゃん!笑ギャル+26
genasugelan
Yep, the GoaT is finally here! Properly introduced.
確かに!ショウがついに来たッ!本格的に登場だ!!エモすぎるわ〜感情くん+26
AvatarTuner
I only noticed the footsteps before and was wondering what that was, such a neat detail!
Sho really was in the mentioned scenes too, I saw the bandaged head a couple of times during my rewatch but didn't even put it together when they showed the top member list this episode. He really has no presence. lol
確かに!俺も足跡だけは気になってたけど、あれそういうことだったのか。細かい演出だな。
松も言われてみればそのシーンにいたね。再視聴中に何度か包帯の頭見かけたけど、今回の上位メンバーリスト出た時も全然気づかなかったわ。存在感なさすぎるw普通くん+8
robd007
Don't know if anyone noticed but kikurage(the dog thingy) was licking the air, which I assume was Shou's hand or something
ああ、確かに。キクラゲが空気舐めてたシーン、気づいたわ。多分ショウの手でも舐めてたんだろうな。ドライおじ+6
NoHead1715
Nah... no one notices him.
確かに...気づいてなかったわ。普通くん+5
FarCritical
Watching everything from En's slaying to his mansion getting raided was like witnessing the fall of the Roman Empire in real time. Way more bittersweet than I was prepared for and I'm not even necessary rooting for or against the Cross Eyes.
Noi and Shin were beyond precious though
エンが倒されてから屋敷が襲撃されるまでの流れは、まさにローマ帝国の崩壊をリアルタイムで見ているような感覚だった。予想以上に切なさが強くて、Cross Eyesを応援してるわけでも敵視してるわけでもないのに胸に来るものがあった。
ただノイとシンのやり取りは本当に尊かったな。あのコンビの絆が作品全体のテーマを象徴してるように思えるんだよな。考察くん+119
BosuW
I think it's because En was like a true "king". Meaning he was an asshole but under his rule there was order and society functioned.
But the Cross-Eyes are kinda just thugs. So like, they deserve better than to be automatically treated as trash because they got no magic but they're not really suited to rule either...
確かに。エンはクズだったけど「王」としての秩序があったんだよね。ルールがあって社会が機能してた。
でも十字眼たちはただのチンピラって感じだし。魔法がないからって自動的にゴミ扱いされる筋合いはないけど、統治に向いてるわけでもないんだよな…普通くん+73
CyonHal
The Cross-eyes are just uneducated bumpkins that literally value toilet paper over gold bars.
確かに。エンは確かに暴君ではあったが、その下には秩序と社会があった。一方、クロスアイズどもは金塊よりトイレットペーパーを重んじる無学な田舎者でござるな。武士+34
Wastelandrider
It’s such a brilliant show with characterization that is so engaging (even when it’s gross) that I also HAVE NO IDEA WHO TO ROOT FOR.
確かに。キャラがみんな魅力的すぎて(グロくても)、誰を応援すればいいかマジでわからなくなる。普通くん+31
a1oner_bvcksn6
原文
"I wonder what happened to Caiman?" And as if to answer it right away, the scene changes and pans to Kai's eyes.
And speaking of Kai, that's got to be one of the most badass reveal I've seen in a long time, with Kaneda's bike slide being the only sequence I can think of rn that tops it. Sheathing his knives while the whole gang gazes at his back, kneeling--Kai just oozes with no-nonsense aura which I just can't say for the other two personalities.
Aikawa and Caiman are basically the same "goofy" individual whose only difference is that one has a reptilia for a head. Similarly, Risu to Aikawa is basically what Nikaido is to Caiman--the dearest of friend/partner.
「カイマンどうなったん?」って思ったらすぐにカイの目に映るシーンに切り替わるんか…演出上手いわ
んでカイの話やけど、あの登場シーンは久々にガチでカッコよかったわ。カネダのバイクスライドくらいしかワイの知ってる中で越えるもんないわ。手下どもが見守る中、ナイフしまって跪くカイ…無駄のないオーラがヤバすぎて他の人格とは格が違うンゴ
相川とカイマンは頭が爬虫類かどうかってだけで基本同じ「アホ」やし、リスと相川の関係は二階堂とカイマンの関係と同じやな——一番大事な相棒って感じ2ちゃん+85
Ok_Shine_2828
原文
I don't think there's actually that much in common between aikawa and caiman's personality. aikawa is very laid back and chill but also quite secretive and withdrawn. Caiman is way more overtly aggressive and quick to anger and tends to blurt out whatever he's thinking. He also has virtually no qualms about killing people who get in his way. He's nice to his friends, but pretty scary to anyone else.
If kai acts the way he does (like a crazy slasher villain) because its part of an actual plan he has, or is the result of some sort of event that happened in the past, then it would make a lot of sense that losing his memories and becoming an amnesiac would produce a personality like caiman's. Especially if he met someone like nikaido who would help reel him him.
Plus he literally has cross marks (or had them for 99% of his life). Aikawa doesn't have those.
相川とカイマンの性格って実はそんなに共通点ないと思うんだよね。相川はすごくのんびりしてるけど、結構秘密主義で引っ込み思案なところがある。一方カイマンは明らかに攻撃的ですぐキレるし、思ったことをすぐ口に出しちゃう。邪魔する人を殺すことにも躊躇がない。友達には優しいけど、それ以外にはかなり怖い存在。
もしカイが今みたいな狂った殺人鬼みたいな行動をしてるのが、何か計画の一部か過去の出来事の結果だとしたら、記憶を失ってカイマンみたいな性格になるのはすごく納得できる。特にニカイドウみたいな人がいて軌道修正してくれるならね。
あと、カイマンには十字の傷があるけど(人生の99%はあったはず)、相川にはないしね。普通くん+54
AlbacoreDumbleberg
Right, I'm of the opinion that Kai, Aikawa, and Caiman are all distinct personalities, which is why when Aikawa's memories were feeding through, Caiman started hemorrhaging blood. They may not have been strictly compatible.
I also wonder if Kai and Aikawa had not previously shared the same body, though I see no evidence of it yet. We don't have any history for Aikawa before that class, do we?
確かに、カイ、アイカワ、カイマンはそれぞれ別個の人格だという考察ができる。だからこそアイカワの記憶が流れ込んだ時、カイマンが大量出血を起こしたんだろう。厳密には互換性がなかった可能性が高い。
さらに、カイとアイカワが以前に同じ肉体を共有していなかったかという疑問も浮かぶ。現時点では証拠はないが、アイカワにはあの授業以前の経歴が一切ないんだよな。この空白期間が何かの伏線である可能性も考えられる。考察くん+23
TokiVideogame
caiman is risu, aikawa, or the boss?
カイマンってリスの一味か相川かボスなんかな?
ワイはまだよくわからんけど、その場面切り替わりでカイの目が映ったのは草生えたわwww2ちゃん+6
Only_Arachnid_6472
the beginning point is AI, the person on whom the surgery was performed then you can trace aikawa and kai which leads the croos eye members when they were kid from hole back to sorcerer's world then we get caiman as last iteration of the character
確かに、AIが最初の手術を受けた起点で、そこからアイカワとカイを辿ると、ホールにいた頃のクロスアイズのメンバーから魔術師の世界に繋がって、最終的にカイマンに至るって感じだね。普通くん+26
KrzyDankus
these last few episodes have been generational
also Ai definitely wasn't lying when he said he felt like he was reborn and became one with Hole, since that's what the swirly magic apparently feels like to Shin
ここ数話はまさに世代を超えるクオリティだったな。
あと、スワイリーな魔法を体感した時の感覚を踏まえると、アイが「穴と一体化して生まれ変わった気分だ」と言ったのは全く嘘じゃなかったって考察ができる。考察くん+79
The_nickums
A really important detail in this episode also, being that Dokuga was mopping up a strange sludge from the boss's room in the mansion & mentioned that this was not the first time the boss has disappeared & left behind sludge. Plus we know that Ai initially almost died from falling into the sludge pit in Hole.
確かに。今回のエピソードで重要なのは、毒蛾が屋敷のボスの部屋で奇妙なスラッジを掃除してたことだね。しかもボスが消えてスラッジを残すのは初めてじゃないって言ってたし。さらにアイも元々ホールのスラッジ穴に落ちて死にかけてたってのが繋がるんだよな。普通くん+29
Aggravating-Wolf-823
原文
We're about to find out Natsuki is a really powerfull sorcerer. Nikaido yet to make a move. Risu thinks Aikawa killed him, but the curse won't do anything while it's Aikawa and not the boss. Do we know why the curse doesn't like devils singing? lol
And I ask again, what happened to Caiman? Aikawa isn't him. The boss isn't him. He's fully dead until Nikaido goes back in time or revival is used on his lizard head. Edit: I just read another comment and oh yeah, there''s also Ai Coleman. I don't know anymore
ナツキ実は超強力な魔法使いだった説あるよな。ニカイドウはまだ動いてないし。リスはアイカワに殺されたと思ってるけど、呪いはボスじゃなくてアイカワ相手じゃ何も起こらんってのがミソやろw
で、結局カイマンはどうなったんや?アイカワは別人やし、ボスも違う。ニカイドウが過去戻すか、トカゲの頭に蘇生かけない限り完全に死体やん。
あとエイ・コールマンって要素もあったわ。もうワイにはわからんwww2ちゃん+73
ThatoneBurger2
curse just isnt a fan of death metal
呪いってやつはデスメタルが好きじゃないんだな普通くん+70
affnn
It's a shame, he'd fit right in at a metal show.
確かに!デスメタルのライブにめっちゃハマりそうなのに、もったいなさすぎるッ!感情くん+19
AbanoMex
he is more of a Melodic Black Metal guy
せやな、メロディックブラックメタルって感じやなwww2ちゃん+5
DustyBot23
I was under the impression that Caiman was how the Aikawa persona presented itself after undergoing memory loss.
確かに、カイマンは記憶喪失になった後の相川の姿って感じだよね。普通くん+50
justsomedude48
I feel like Caiman is a mix of Aikawa and Kai. Caiman got Aikawa’s kind heart and good nature, but also got Kai’s ruthlessness and violent tendencies.
それな!カイマンってアイカワの優しさとカイの凶暴さが混ざった感じじゃん?優しいとこはアイカワで、ヤバいとこはカイっぽいよね〜まじでその通りだわ!ギャル+29
nofaxxspitintruflego
its like devils singing is holy water to a ghost, well in this case a curse
since they're the holy beings in sorcerers world
草、悪魔の歌が幽霊にとっての聖水みたいなもんってか、この場合は呪いやけどな
魔術師界じゃ悪魔が聖なる存在やもんな2ちゃん+19
Useful_Project4898
I assumed that Caiman is gone from a combo of Ebisu being dead and it was her magic that made the transformation possible and Kai getting dosed with his own smoke, which perhaps made some memories come back...
確かに、カイマン消えたのはエビスが死んで彼女の魔法で変身が可能になってたからだと思ってた。カイが自分の煙を吸わされたことで、記憶が戻ったのかもね…普通くん+16
SirJasonCrage
Remind me, when did he get dosed with his own smoke?
そういえば、エビスの魔法で変身できるようになったって前提でカイマンが消えたって話だったけど、いつ自分の煙を浴びたんだっけ? その辺の描写、記憶が曖昧すぎる…感情くん+12
PM_ME_FUTA_PEACH
Wait holy, did Ebisu die in the same episode that Caiman turned to human? Was that why?
まじで!?エビスが死んだからカイマン人間になったってこと!?同じ話でそれやばくね!?ギャル+7
SirJasonCrage
Yep. That's exactly why he turned back. If a sorcerer dies, his magic is undone. We saw it with En's death too.
そうだね。まさにそのせいで元に戻ったんだ。魔法使いが死んだら魔法は解けるってルールだし、エンの死でもそれ見れたしね。普通くん+20
Useful_Project4898
原文
Well she was ultimately revived and I would have to rewatch it *again* to make sure, but I thought that the Caiman transformation came undone right around the time she was killed by the doppleganger.
I have already rewatched all episodes in this season (and last)...some multiple times. I love this series so much but it can be very confusing. I am still just guessing but I feel like I have a decent grasp of whats going on without reading the manga.
あれ、結局エビスは復活したんやけどな。カイマンが人間に戻ったのと同時にドッペルゲンガーに殺されたってことか?ワイも確認のためにまた見直さなあかんわ。
- 今期と前期の全話、もう何度も見直してるンゴ
- このシリーズガチで好きやけど、めっちゃ混乱するわ
- 漫画読まずに大体理解できてる気はするけど、まだ推測の域や2ちゃん+14
laughtale0
Kai got reveal and then cut to "one month later, En family was destroyed" HOLY AURA!
カイの正体バレてから「1ヶ月後、エン家は壊滅」ってなるのやばくね!?オーラやばすぎだろまじで!!ギャル+57
JJVM99
原文
To get the picture of what we understand of the boss now it is. The boss is Kai who besides his insane abilities he can give himself more by implant the devils that give a person their magic onto himself and we can assume have multiple abilities. He took En’s mushroom powers and in the past he took Risu’s curse power which we can also assume he has now lost. For some reason Kai gets amnesia and loses his memories and becomes Aikawa who doesn’t remember anything. And then theres his third alter ego our main character Caiman who I rn can’t decipher how he happened because I felt that Kai ended up in the hole after his battle with En where En turned that city into mushrooms when he escaped through that door and then Nikaido found him but that doesn’t explain when or how Ebisu turned him into a lizard. What can be confirmed is that Curse is what was inside Caiman’s head all along but how it was able to leave Kai and return to Risu I can’t explain from what we have seen but the main thought I have is Kai + Curse = Caiman.
also Dorohedoro is a series with no good guys but just a bunch of bastards so I just root for the bastards I like the most. That mainly goes down to whoever Caiman is aligned with but between the En Family and the Cross-Eyes I will root for the En Family because Shin and Noi are the best and they are badass and adorable together at the same time.
The one downer is knowing we only have 2 episodes left. I don’t want the ride to end.
今の時点でボスの正体が大体わかってきたわ。ボスはカイで、ヤバい能力に加えて悪魔を自分に移植してさらに能力を増やせる。エンのキノコ能力を奪ったし、過去にはリスの呪い能力も奪ってた(今は失ったっぽい)。なんか理由で記憶喪失になってアイカワになるんだよな。んで第三の人格が主人公カイマン。エン戦で穴に落ちてエンが街をキノコだらけにした後、二階堂が見つけたのはわかるけど、いつどこで恵比寿がトカゲにしたんだよ。確実なのは呪いがカイマンの頭の中にあったってことだけど、それがカイから離れてリスに戻った仕組みは不明。ワイの仮説は「カイ+呪い=カイマン」やな。
つーかドロヘドロって善人ゼロでクズしかいないから、好きなクズを応援するしかないンゴwww ワイはエン・ファミリー派やわ。シンとノイが最強でカッコ可愛いんじゃ。
あと残り2話だけなのが悲しすぎる。終わってほしくないンゴ…2ちゃん+57
ckrono
I dont think he ever got risu magic, he tried to without knowing what it was and it backfired when curse manifested
確かに!カイはリス魔法を手に入れたわけじゃなくて、知らんまま試したら逆に呪いが出ちゃったって感じだよね。やばくね?ギャル+51
JJVM99
yeah thinking it over you’re right. rn i feel lost trying to understand everything about Kai and Risu (which I feel my post shows at times) but is curse something that activates after death? So like Kai killing Risu is what led to Risu’s magic finally working but with the purpose of getting revenge on Kai.
それな、考え直すと確かにそうだね。今カイとリスの関係を理解しようとして混乱してるんだけど(投稿にも出てると思う)、呪いって死後に発動するものなのかな?つまりカイがリスを殺したからこそリスの魔法がようやく発動したけど、それはカイへの復讐が目的だったってこと?普通くん+20
ckrono
yes, it activates after death, it chased kai to kill him but got trapped inside him when he used ebisu smoke on himself
せやな、死んだら発動してカイを殺そうと追いかけたけど、カイが自分にエビスの煙使ったから逆に体内に閉じ込められたってわけやろ。ワイも最初混乱したけど、それで納得やわ。2ちゃん+22
flashmozzg
> but is curse something that activates after death
Not just death. Damage as well (at least when Risu is in the Curse mode for which he likely has to die first). But basically it's an eye for an eye kind of deal.
確かに、死後だけじゃなくてダメージでも発動するみたいだね(少なくともライスがカースモードの時は、多分先に死ぬ必要があるけど)。基本的には目には目を的な契約って感じだと思う。普通くん+7
Consistent-Horse-273
原文
>also Dorohedoro is a series with no good guys but just a bunch of bastards so I just root for the bastards I like the most.
En: competent selfish bastard that exploit people, and believe weak should submit to strong people. Can't blame the crosseye gang wanting to rebel since they are treated as second class citizen or worse, but their boss is a total psychopath who doesn't even seem interested in leading the gang.
せやな。ドロヘドロは善人なんておらんくて、クズしか出てこんから、ワイは好きなクズを応援するわ。
- 有能で自己中なクズやけど人を搾取するし、弱いモンは強いモンに従うべきって考えやん
- クロスアイズ連中が反乱したくなるのも分かるわ、二級市民扱いやしな
- でもボスは完全にサイコパスで、組織を率いる気すらなさそうやしな2ちゃん+33
Aggravating-Wolf-823
Nikaido seems like a pretty good guy
確かに、二階堂は結構いいやつだと思うよ。普通くん+26
flashmozzg
Asu
せやな、二階堂はホンマいいやつやわ。2ちゃん+14
KrzyDankus
been rewatching s1 lately, so it's worth mentioning that when Nikaido discovered the body in that alley, it had Aikawa's outfit, while the headless man in En's backstory was shirtless
最近s1見直してるんだけどさ、二階堂が路地で見つけた遺体ってアイカワの服着てたじゃん?でもエンの過去編の首なし男は上半身裸だったんだよね。やばくね?笑ギャル+22
BosuW
Though they do note that En's movie may not be a completely accurate recollection of events
確かにエンの映画は完全に正確な記憶ってわけじゃないって言及されてるね。普通くん+19
fatcatburrito
The first encounter between En and Kai happened like 6 years before the series starts, Caiman has been in Hole for like 1-2 years, I honestly cant remember. So the En incident happened before the Risu incident.
エンとカイの初遭遇は本編開始の約6年前で、カイマンがホールに来たのは1〜2年前だったはず。つまりエン事件はリス事件より前に起きてるんだよな。この時系列のズレが、カイマンの記憶や魔法使いとの因縁にどう影響するか考察すると面白い。考察くん+17
Doomroar
There's the Hole faction made out of Nikaido, Dr Kusakabe, Jhonson, Kawajiri, and the other humans
Who i consider the de facto good guys
ホール側の勢力は二階堂、日下部博士、ジョンソン、川尻、その他の人間たちで構成されてて、俺はこいつらが実質的な善玉だと思うね。普通くん+12
BandedLutz
原文
>also Dorohedoro is a series with no good guys but just a bunch of bastards so I just root for the bastards I like the most.
They're loveable bastards, lol. Flawed as they may be, that just makes them more complex and interesting characters.
Even En has aspects of himself that are surprisingly commendable at times. Despite being such a big shot (and even if he has ulterior motives and is oftem chasing power), he still takes in (and in a way takes care of) strays like Ebisu and Fujita. He's surprisingly tolerant of them and their shenanigans and goes as far as seeking revenge on behalf of Fujita (even if it ties into his greater goals). In a previous episode this season, En says he chose to kill Caiman in a painful way "to avenge Matsumura" (showing that he doesn't just think about himself all the time like you might expect). How he treats Kikurage (beyond what you would expect him to do if he was just interested in her magic) also shows a caring side.
They such great, multi-faceted characters!
確かに「愛すべきクズ」って表現がぴったりだよな。彼らの欠点こそが逆にキャラクターに複雑さと魅力を与えている。
エンに関しても興味深い点で、大物でありながら(裏の思惑や権力欲が常にあるとはいえ)恵比寿や藤田のようなはみ出し者を受け入れ、ある意味で面倒を見ている。彼らの騒動にも驚くほど寛容で、藤田の復讐のために動く場面も(それが自身の大きな目的と結びついていても)彼の人間味が感じられる。今シーズンの前回のエピソードでエンが「松村の仇を討つため」と言ってカイマンを苦しめる方法で殺そうとしたのも、決して自己中心的だけではない証左だ。キクラゲへの接し方(彼女の魔法にしか興味がなければ予想以上に親身だ)もまた、彼の思いやりの側面を表している。
本当に多面的で素晴らしいキャラクターたちだよな。考察くん+14
thebohster
Maybe my memory is failing since it's been so long, but when was it explained devils give a person their magic, assuming that's what you're referring the thing Kai plucked out of En to?
え、それってカイがエンから引き抜いたあれのことだよね?ちょっと記憶あいまいなんだけど、いつ悪魔が人間に魔法を与えるって説明されたっけ?まじで教えてほしいんだけど!ギャル+5
JJVM99
can’t remember perfectly but I am basing it on when they talked about reviving Ebisu and how she had a little devil in her brain and as long as that is fine the person can be revived. I am assuming that is something sorcerers have and that’s what gives them their powers to explain why Kai took the En’s brain out of his corpse and why he has En’s powers now.
記憶あやふややけど、エビス復活の話で脳に小さな悪魔がいてそれが無事なら蘇生できるって言ってたやろ。ソレが術師の力の源なんちゃうか。だからカイがエンの死体から脳みそ取り出して、今エンの力使えてるんやろなってワイは解釈してるンゴ。2ちゃん+12
SirJasonCrage
That could explain why the doll went to the Boss and not to En's head.
確かに!それで人形がエンの頭じゃなくてボスのとこに行ったのか…そういう伏線だったのかッ!納得すぎる!感情くん+15
The_nickums
原文
Its never explained, only alluded to. The previous episodes about Ai Coleman wanting the surgery (though we don't know what it was) & then in this episode from the hints of Natsuki commenting on how it seems Kai did surgery on himself, the doll trying to rip Kai's head off (Implying based on what Turkey said about the doll homing in on the Devil Tumor that En's tumor is in Kai's head) & eventually Kai using En's magic
この点は明確には説明されておらず、示唆に留まっているという考察ができる。アイ・コールマンが手術を望んでいた過去エピソード(内容は不明だが)、そして今回のエピソードで夏樹が「カイが自分自身に手術を施したようだ」と発言した伏線、人形がカイの首を引きちぎろうとした行為(ターキーの説明から人形は悪魔の腫瘍に反応するので、エンの腫瘍がカイの頭部にあると示唆される)、最終的にカイがエンの魔法を使用した点を総合すると、制作陣は意図的に情報を小出しにしていると見られる。考察くん+11
DustyBot23
原文
Anyone else feel after mid episode op drop that suddenly everything felt plot relevant in it rather than just being psychedelic visuals lol? With the brain surgery part and the Ai family of personas that head switching part stood out and then also with curse being scared of devil music suddenly the concert at the end doesn’t seem random anymore. There’s more stuff but I just felt everything click watching it this time in a way I didn’t before. This season is so dang good!
中盤でOP変わった後、急にサイケ映像じゃなくて全部伏線に見えてきたンゴwww
脳外科とアイ家の人格切り替えのとこが浮いたし、呪いが悪魔の音楽にビビってる描写でラストのコンサートも意味ありげに見えてきたわ
他にも色々あるけど、今回見て全部つながった感あって草
今期ガチで神やん!2ちゃん+49
somersault_dolphin
Been the case since season 1. You should revisit that eventually, especially further into the story.
Eg. Notice the four eggs in the bowl and the four chunks of meat that Nikaido made gyoza with? Ai, Kai, Aikawa, Kaiman. That's four. The framing both times are specifically Nikaido adding the fourth to the other three. That fourth is Kaiman who's the last identity to appear because of the amnesia.
同意。シーズン1からずっとそうだよね。後で見返すと特にわかる。
例えば、二階堂が餃子にしたボウルの卵4個と肉4切れ、あれはアイ、カイ、アイカワ、カイマンだよ。どちらも二階堂が4つ目を他の3つに加える構図になってて、その4つ目が記憶喪失で最後に正体が明かされるカイマンってわけ。普通くん+40
Hot-Log6283
>mid episode op drop
So much happened before then that I seriously thought it was the ED already, and that the episode was already over.
それな!!中盤でOP流れた時、もうEDかと思って「え、もう終わり!?」ってなったわ。その前に起きすぎだろマジで。感情くん+19
Weak_Season_Of_Anime
原文
Not sure how this fits in everything, but in Risu's flashback Curse was the one who took the Caiman head (decapitated by Shin) in the hospital, and presumably also dropped it near the lava when Aikawa died fighting En and Curse left his body to return to the real Risu. So that's one mystery solved regarding the random Caiman head.
Now I wonder why Kai wanted Risu's power, doesn't seem that useful when its activation condition is someone killing you. Unless Risu's magic also has something else special about it, like he implied with the magic testing machine?
リスの回想だと、病院でカイマンの首(シンが斬ったやつ)を拾ったのはカースだったんだな。その後、アイカワがエンとの戦いで死んでカースが本物のリスの体に戻った時、その首を溶岩の近くに落としたんだろう。つまり、あの謎のカイマンの首の謎が一つ解けたってわけだ。
でもカイがリスの力を欲しがった理由が気になるな。発動条件が誰かに殺されることなら、そんなに便利じゃないし。もしかしたらリスの魔法には他に特別な何かがあるのかもね。魔法測定器で示唆してたみたいに。普通くん+39
ckrono
Maybe he sensed powerful magic without knowing what it was specifically
草、カーマンの首を持ってったのがカース本人ってことかよ
確かに強力な魔法を感じ取ったのかもな、詳細はわからんけど2ちゃん+37
MokonaModokiES
原文
maybe the conditions have changed with his resurrection since curse also attacked the other cross eyed when they arrived on it.
Also even then "dying" might not be a problem for the boss since we have basically seen Caiman two times already. First when Shin decapitated him and then when En killed him/Aikawa which is when Curse left. Seems like Kai/Aikawa has multiple lives maybe due to the tumors he implanted in himself.
リスの回想シーンでカースがカイマンの頭部を持ち去った件に関してだが、復活によって条件が変わった可能性もある。カースが他のクロスアイズを襲ったのも、そのタイミングだった。
さらに言えば、ボスにとって「死ぬこと」自体が問題ではないのかもしれない。すでにカイマンは2度死亡している。1度目はシンに首を切られた時、2度目はエンにカイマン/アイカワを殺された時だ。この時カースは離脱している。
つまりカイ/アイカワは複数の命を持っている可能性がある。おそらく自身に埋め込んだ腫瘍が原因ではないかという考察ができる。考察くん+17
fozi4ek
He attacked them when they attacked first
確かに、向こうが先に仕掛けてきたから反撃したって感じだね普通くん+9
LeonKevlar
Death is a funny thing in this universe, so despite En's tumour being taken by Kai, I still wouldn't discount the chances of him being revived later.
Noi reviving Shin with a kiss was such a great scene. Noi x Shin shippers are eating well this episode. <3
この世界線じゃ死ぬのも生き返るのも適当やからな。煙の腫瘍カイに取られても、後で復活する可能性は全然あると思うわ。
ノイのキスでシン生き返らせるシーン最高すぎンゴwww
ノイ×シンカプ勢は今週も大満足やろな <32ちゃん+37
Parodizer1
hell yeah they are!
確かにそうだよね!普通くん+10
KomoliRihyoh
原文
My assumptions so far: Aikawa/Kai are the split personality of the reincarnated Ai. Kai retains Aikawa's memories, and that's how he knew about Risu's curse magic (since Risu told Aikawa). Kai is the one who killed Risu in an attempt to steal Risu's magic like how he eventually did with En, but he messed up & got attacked by Curse. However, in Risu's flashing memories, we hear Curse say "you're not a sorcerer, you imposter" to who I assume was Aikawa, meaning Kai went dormant. Since Aikawa's not "really" the killer, Curse instead attached itself to his body until Kai reemerged. In doing so, Aikawa lost his memories & became "Caiman."
現時点での考察をまとめると、相川/カイは転生したアイの二重人格だと思われる。カイが相川の記憶を保持しているから、リスに呪いの魔法を教えられた相川の記憶を頼りに、リスの呪いのことを知っていたんだろう。カイはエンにやったのと同じようにリスの魔法を奪おうとして殺したが、失敗して呪いに襲われた。しかしリスのフラッシュバックでは、呪いが「お前は魔法使いじゃない、偽物だ」と相川らしき人物に言っている。これはカイが休眠状態に入ったことを示す。相川は「本当の」殺人者ではないため、呪いはカイが再出現するまで彼の体に憑依した。その過程で相川は記憶を失い「カイマン」になったという流れだ。考察くん+35
my_soldier
You are forgetting the role of Ebisu. Ebisu is the one that trapped Curse in Caiman somehow, since Curse said Ebisu stopped him and ruined everything. We also know Ebisu is the one that actually turned Aikawa in Caiman. It seems that Ebisu somehow interfered with Curse enacting revenge on Kai, but how is not yet known.
確かに、エビスの役割を忘れてたな。呪いが「エビスに止められて台無しにされた」って言ってたし、エビスが呪いをカイマンに閉じ込めたんだろうね。それに、エビスがアイカワをカイマンに変えた張本人ってのも分かってる。どうやらエビスが呪いのカイへの復讐を妨害したみたいだけど、その方法はまだ謎だね。普通くん+39
SpikeRosered
How does Ebisu turning his head into a lizard factor into it?
え、それってエビスが頭をトカゲに変えることとどう関係あんの?やばくね!?ギャル+17
fozi4ek
IIRC if someone has magic cast on them they can't be affected by another magic, so Ebisu's smoke trapped Curse inside unable to fully manifest
確かに、誰かが魔法をかけられてると別の魔法が効かなくなるから、エビスの煙でカースが完全に顕現できずに閉じ込められたってことだね。普通くん+23
Catac0
Haru busting out another death metal karaoke session out of nowhere lol
Also I felt extremely called out when Sho appeared and I basically do not remember him at all 💀 him disappearing at the end too, poor guy 😭
ハルがまた唐突にデスメタルカラオケ始めたの笑えるんだけど、この演出はキャラの不安定さを表現してるんだろうな。
あとショウが登場した時、正直俺も全く記憶にないってなったわ。最後にまた消えちゃうし、彼の存在って物語の中でどういう立ち位置なんだろうな。伏線かもしれないけど、単純に可哀想すぎる😭考察くん+37
za_shiki-warashi
Hayashida Q's name on the mailboxes!
郵便受けに林田Qの名前がある!普通くん+31
Volfaer
原文
Oh god, not Natsuki basically killing the two best fighters of the cross eye because she stopped like a deer in headlights.
Okay, I guess that explains why the boss, or rather Kai, is so dangerous. Unlike sorcerers who have their brains hardwired into their sorceries, normal human brains can adapt to sorcery tumors and probably hold more than one spell. The boss probably also went through other surgery to implant the smoke generating organs on him, or they started to grow naturally after the tumor implant.
Now Aikawa is the big unknown factor, just how the hell does he intersect with Kai? The story is making it look like they are the same person using alteregos and living two lives, especially since Aikawa is a lot closer to Ai Cooleman than Kai in demeanor. Is Kai the personality of the sorcerer that Ai stole the tumor from?
Noi and Shin are literally more than a married couple, he just need to be honest with it.
草、ナツキがクロスアイの最強格二人を事故みたいに殺っちまったンゴwww 対向車のヘッドライトで固まるシカみたいになってるやん
なるほどな、つまりカイことボスがヤバい理由はそういうことか。魔法使いは脳みそが術式に直結してるけど、人間の脳は腫瘍に適応できて複数の呪文を保持できるってわけか。ボスは煙発生器官を埋め込む手術も受けてるか、腫瘍移植後に自然発生した可能性もあるな
で、アイカワが最大の謎やん。どうやってカイと交差するねん。物語的には同一人物で二重生活してるように見えるけど、特にアイカワの方がカイよりアイ・クールマンに性格が近いし。カイってアイが腫瘍を奪った魔法使いの人格なんか?
ノイとシンはもう結婚してるようなもんやろ、素直になれやガチで2ちゃん+28
BosuW
> Oh god, not Natsuki basically killing the two best fighters of the cross eye because she stopped like a deer in headlights.
And later she attacks who she believes is En with absolute resolution 💀💀
確かに、ナツキがヘッドライトに照らされた鹿みたいに固まってクロスアイズの最強二人を実質殺しちゃったのやばかったな…。しかも後でエンだと思った相手には迷いなく攻撃してたし💀💀普通くん+12
somersault_dolphin
She already heard he's a doll.
確かに!ナツキが人形だって知ってた時点でヤバいじゃん!まじで一瞬の判断ミスがデカすぎるわ笑ギャル+10
AlexxxandreS
What you mean she stopped like a deer in headlights?
I just finished the episode but I don't understand this hahaha damn
いや「鹿がヘッドライトに照らされたみたいに止まった」ってどういう意味?
エピソード見終わったけど意味わかんないんだけど笑 マジで普通くん+6
Volfaer
Deer freeze in fear when exposed to sudden stimulus, like the headlights of a car, leasing to crashes with the animal.
Natsuki just stood there right in front of Shin and Noi, frozen in fear, forcing Dokuga to take a hit for her and Tetsujo to flinch trying to not hit her, leading to both get incapacitated.
「鹿がヘッドライト浴びて硬直するやつやん」
「ナツキがシンとノイの目の前でガチガチにビビって固まっちゃって、ドクガが代わりに攻撃食らって、鉄条も避けようとしてよろけて、結果二人とも戦闘不能になったってわけや」2ちゃん+23
AlexxxandreS
I know what that meant, but just didn't connect that her freezing was her killing both of them...
確かに、意味はわかってたけど、彼女が固まることが二人を殺すってまでは結びつかなかったな。普通くん+8
EnvironmentalLet8932
It's a shame we've only got 2 more episodes left🤕 hope they drop a s3 soon I need more
あと2話しかないのマジかよ…😭 早くS3やってほしいンゴ、ワイもっと見たいわ2ちゃん+31
tripleaamin
At the very least the wait time shouldn't be as long as the wait between S1 and S2.
それな!S1からS2までの待ち時間よりはマシだよね笑 次のシーズンすぐ来てほしい〜!まじで続き気になるし!ギャル+24
TransposableElements
> At the very least the wait time shouldn't be as long as the wait between S1 and S2.
AoT is finally over now, hopefully nothing will steal Hayashi from his true love Dorohedoro
確かに!S1とS2の間の地獄の待機期間よりはマシだよな…ッ
AoTがついに終わった今、林祐一郎をドロヘドロへの真の愛から奪うものはないはず…祈るしかない!感情くん+7
laughtale0
Sho finally got revealed. I guess he is the one that Shin saw in the elevator, it opens but no one was there. Also in the ED, near the end before Chidaruma woke up, you can see bloody steps walking outside the elevator, that's probably him too. He was always there, his presence is just too low.
ショーがついに正体を現したね。多分あれが、シンがエレベーターで見たやつだ。ドアが開いたのに誰もいなかったやつ。あとEDの終盤、チダルマが目覚める直前に血の足跡がエレベーターの外を歩いてたけど、それもたぶん彼だよ。ずっといたんだな、ただ存在感が薄すぎただけ。普通くん+28
ObvsThrowaway5120
原文
Well well well, how the turn tables. The Cross-Eyes were scattered in the wind with no boss and getting just decimated by En. And now En’s gone and the boys are scraping what’s left of his gang off the walls. The king is dead. Long live the king! The guys are living the good life now. Look at all those rolls of tp!
I’m kind of curious to see what’s next for the gang and Aikawa. Dude’s not all there which could be a real problem considering he just destabilized their little society.
ほーら見ろ、形勢逆転やんけ。Cross-Eyesはボス無しで風に散ってエンにボコられてたのに。んで今度はエンが消えて、奴のギャングの残党は壁に張り付く始末。王は死んだ。新王万歳!連中は今やいい暮らししてるやん。トイレットペーパーの山見てみ?www
ワイ、ギャングと相川が次どうなるか気になるンゴ。あの野郎ちょっと頭おかしいし、あいつが社会を不安定にしたって考えるとマジで問題やろ。2ちゃん+23
bunbun777
Things are starting to get really spicy 🔥.
だんだんと熱くなってきたね🔥。普通くん+20
Dry-Palpitation-7460
I didnt even know they had a s2. I watched the first one twice wishing there was more. Their world is interesting
え、マジで!?S2あったの知らんかった!S1は2回も見たんだけど、続き欲しすぎてたんだよね笑 この世界観まじでやばくない?ギャル+18
wonderkidgunz
All these talks about Caiman, Aikawa, and Kai, but here I am still wondering the mystery of Ai Coleman 'death' and his corpse disappearance. The story is so damn addicting.
草、みんなカイマンとかアイカワとかカイの話してるけど、ワイはまだアイ・コールマンの「死」と死体消失の謎が気になって仕方ないンゴwww このストーリーガチでクセになるわ。2ちゃん+19
BosuW
I don't fucking know anymore man I clocked that Caiman was a chimera of different people but watching that chimera actually unfold into it's different parts breaks my head I can't keep track Imma just sit and let it play out
もう何が何だか分からなくなってきたよ。カイマンが複数の人間のキメラだってのは気づいてたけど、実際にそれがバラバラに分かれていくのを見ると頭が混乱する。もう整理できないから、そのまま流れに任せることにするわ。普通くん+17
Marbx
I just realized that Risu inside Caiman/Aikawa was finding the one who killed him (“you are not the one”), but it’s impossible to find ”the one” since Aikawa probably killed him to get his power 😢
I wonder what Risu’s power is? Maybe it‘s that hypnotic globby power he used on En and ShiNoi?
カイマン/アイカワの中にいるリスが「お前じゃない」って殺した相手探してたって気づいたンゴ……でもアイカワがパワー奪うために殺した可能性高いから「その人」見つけるの無理ゲーやん😢
リスの能力って何なんやろ?エンとシノイに使ってたあの催眠グロビーみたいなやつか?2ちゃん+19
Only_Arachnid_6472
risu's magic is curse. as explained by dokuga, there is a small window in last episode of season 1 where risu is making notes about what teach is reading to them and the teachers says, there are people with rare magics like regen, time travel, reincarnation and CURSE. to which risu says it would be a great target for corss eyes if someone with curse existed
確かに。risuの魔法は呪いってことか。season1最終話でドクガが説明してた時のノートに書いてたやつだね。「再生」「時間移動」「転生」「呪い」って特殊な魔法があるって先生が言ってて、risuが「呪い持ちがいたら十字目に狙われる」って反応してたシーンがあったのを思い出した。普通くん+35
FarCritical
Also, it's funny how we got the invisible guy who's always been there reveal both here with Sho and Purson in Iruma-kun Season 4 (tones being complete polar opposites notwithstanding)
確かに!同じ「ずっとそこにいた透明なやつ」ネタなのに、ショウとプルソンで雰囲気真逆すぎて笑ったww ドロヘドロと魔入間くん、面白すぎるコントラストだわ感情くん+17
Thy_Fear
I yearn for more Shin x Noi!
I NEED IT!!
え、まじでしん×のいの絡みもっと見たいんだけど!やばくない!?マジで早く続き欲しい!!ギャル+18
Dale-Wensley
I cant get over how good dorohedoro is !
ドロヘドロ面白すぎてやばい!普通くん+17
PandaSishou
I assume invisible dude is the footprints in the ed.
EDの足跡、あれ透明人間ってことかよ。気づかんかったわ草2ちゃん+16
genasugelan
Bingo!
当たり!それで合ってるよ普通くん+10
DustyBot23
I have no idea how any way this situation could possibly be resolved that leaves everyone happy. Brain is spinning after all these reveals lol. Can turtle polnaroff just show up and reveal the bossu’s identity and true nature/DiD system to everyone already??
この状況、全員がハッピーになるような解決方法が全く思いつかないな。一連の暴露で頭がパンクしそうだわ(笑)。もう亀のポルナロフが登場して、ボスの正体と本当の姿/解離性同一性障害のシステムをみんなに暴露してくれないかな?という考察ができる。考察くん+15
DustyBot23
原文
So from what I can gather Kai was planning on stealing Risu’s brain the same way he did En’s but something went wrong leading to the events of the story so far. I wonder if En’s magic tool just reveals how strong the ability is rather than what it is and that’s why curse fucked Kai up because otherwise it doesn’t make sense considering how op Kai has been portrayed so far. Also is anyone else not accepting that En is dead? He was such a central character and it happened so suddenly that I’m still expecting him to pop out of a mushroom or something. Well, as long as Kikurage is alive never say never!
カイはエンと同じやり方でリスの脳を奪おうとしたけど、何かが狂って今の展開に至ったって感じだね。エンの魔法道具は能力の種類じゃなく強さだけを測るものなんじゃないかな。だからこそ呪いでカイがやられたんだと思う。そうじゃなきゃ今までのカイの強さ描写と矛盾するし。それにエンが死んだってまだ信じられないよ。あんな中心人物が突然死ぬなんて、キノコとかからひょっこり出てきそうな気がする。キクラゲが生きてる限り、諦めないでおくよ!普通くん+12
RelativeMundane9045
Haru the devil just wants to jam, any time any place.
ハル悪魔、マジでいつでもどこでも即興セッションしたがってて最高すぎるッ!感情くん+12
Temperance10
God this show fucking rules. That opening had me *enthralled*.
Also poor Shou, the problem with Charisma being your dump stat.
マジでこのアニメやばくない!?OPからもう釘付けなんだけど笑
てかショウかわいそすぎじゃん!カリスマが低いってまじで致命的すぎる〜ギャル+12
theKGS
Amazing episode.
This was certainly an episode for the ShinNoi shippers.
まじで神回すぎるッ!
シノイ民にはたまらん回だった…優勝感情くん+11
Meander061
>This was certainly an episode for the ShinNoi shippers.
I just enjoyed seeing Noi's gorgeous self!
確かに、今回のエピソードはShinNoiファンにはたまらなかったね。俺は単純にNoiの美しい姿が見れて満足だよ!普通くん+6
Polaro12
I was thinking I am very keen when watching shit, but I didn't even get it that Aikawa and Kai is the same person lmao
やばくね!?俺、結構アニメ見るとき鋭い方だと思ってたんだけど、相川とカイが同一人物って全然気づかなかったわ笑 まじでやられた〜!ギャル+12
Polaro12
I was like yeah they look the same that's strange okay maybe it's just an anime artstyle
それな!「同じ顔だな…気のせいかな…」ってスルーしてたけど、まさか同一人物だったとはな…俺も気づかなかったわ笑感情くん+12
Say_o_nara
原文
This is the episode where it clicked to me they're the same.
There's probably previous obvious moments and I'm not saying I'm right, but It's mainly because of Risu's reaction towards the end of the episode, suggesting that he believes that Aikawa killed him. If that was actually true, Curse would've slimed him right there at that moment, but since he didn't and isn't actively looking for him, it must be a split personality of Aikawa that is just not "online" yet. Idk, I'll need to binge watch both seasons to have a clearer Image of what is happening
確かにこの回でワイも同一人物やと気づいたわ
多分前にも伏線あったんやろうけど、Risuの反見て「あ、Aikawaが殺したんか」って思わせる演出がミスリードやな。もしガチならその場で呪いがスライム化して襲ってくるはずやし、でもそうならんかったからAikawaの別人格がまだ「オンライン」になってないだけやろ。ワイもシーズン通して見直さなあかんわ2ちゃん+7
AlbacoreDumbleberg
Ai Coleman did not look like Aikawa, if that's what you're thinking. "Kai" was only just revealed to us.
確かに、相川とカイが同一人物って気づかなかったわ。アイ・コールマンは相川とは似てなかったし、「カイ」って名前も今明かされたばかりだしね。普通くん+5
NanDemoKnaives
原文
Looks like Risu has finally realized Aikawa was the one that killed him, but I wonder if it was really the Aikawa he knows.
It feels like it's been shown/hinted that Aikawa takes other sorcerer's heads so that he can use their magic and he performs the surgery on his own, so maybe a certain head/brain/persona of his decided to kill Risu. But with how he reacted to Nikaidou, maybe he's always present and his personality is just altered depending on who's head/brain he has. Aikawa is a character of too much mystery lol.
I was worried for Dokuga's group so I'm glad Natsuki was able to revive/repair them all. It was messed up seeing they were still alive in their dismembered state.
Noi doing magic CPR to Shin was sweet, she didn't care for her own condition. It was funny to see Shin reacting all embarrassed, but I'm glad he let the moment continue seeing how happy Noi was.
リスのやつ、ついにアイカワに殺されたって気づいたか。でも、アイカワ本人の意思なんかね?
・アイカワが他人の頭を取って魔法使うのは伏線あったよな。自分で手術してるし、特定の頭脳がリスを殺した可能性ある
・ニカイドウへの反応見る限り、頭ごとに人格変わる説もありそう。アイカワ謎すぎンゴwww
・毒蛾グループはナツキが全員復活させてくれて助かった。バラバラで生きてる描写は草も生えんわ
・ノイがシンに心臓マッサージしてるシーン尊すぎ。自分のこと忘れて必死やん。シンが照れてるのも笑えたけど、ノイの嬉しそうな顔見てそのまま続けさせてやったのはグッジョブやな2ちゃん+13
Shimmering-Sky
原文
[](/u/KendotsX)
- Absolutely *brutal*, damn.
- An elevator… for no one…?
- Ouch.
- …Aikawa(?) had En’s devil tumor put into his head, didn’t he?
- I guess he’s just Kai now.
- Ah fuck…
- Curse is weak to devil music?
- I suppose they’d still be concerned about that.
- I hope Shin and Noi are alright, wherever they are.
- Hahahaha
- He’s acting like Caiman now.
- Huh, neat.
- Oh, so *that’s* how Shin and Noi got away.
- Shin…
- Ganbare, Noi!
- Y’know what, I’ll take it.
- めっちゃエグいな、マジで。
- 誰も乗らないエレベーター…?
- 痛って…
- 相川?にエンの悪魔の腫瘍を埋め込まれたんだよな?
- もうカイってことか。
- ああクソ…
- 呪いは悪魔の音楽に弱いのか?
- それでも気にしてそうだな。
- シンとノイ、どこにいても無事だといいな。
- ははは
- カイマンみたいな真似してる。
- へえ、いいね。
- ああ、そうやってシンとノイは逃げたのか。
- シン…
- 頑張れ、ノイ!
- まあ、これで良しとしよう。普通くん+11
BlackLunette
A bit short but i'm really looking forward to that mosh pit fight esp with shin vs dokuga brawl, its brutal and i like it!
I forgot who is he is but good timing saving noi and shin before Boss caught them, haru's timing too driving curse away
短いけど、モッシュピットのバトル楽しみすぎやろwww 特にシンvsドクガの殴り合いマジでエグくて好きやわ!
誰やったか忘れたけど、ボスに捕まる前にノイとシン助けるタイミング良すぎやろ。ハルの呪い追い払うタイミングも絶妙やん2ちゃん+12
tripleaamin
Kai using En's magic implies he can use, or better yet, steal the magic of other sorcerers. Though between Caiman, Aikawa, Ai, and Kai, the mystery continues to loom.
Also a nice kiss at the end, Noi! Poor Sho lol.
カイがエンの魔法を使ったってことは、他の魔法使いの魔法も使えるか、むしろ奪えるって考察ができる。ただ、カイマン、アイカワ、アイ、カイの関係性を考えると、まだ謎は深まるばかりだな。
そして最後のキス、ノイ! しょー、かわいそうに笑。考察くん+9
Zealicous
Huh I was wondering if somehow Sho could be in the ED and you do see bloody footprints go out the elevator before Chidamaru gets up and leave.
So he was always right there...
あれ、EDでなんとかショウが出てくるのかなと思ってたんだけど、チダマルが起きて出ていく前に血の足跡がエレベーターから出てるんだよね。
つまり彼は最初からずっとそこにいたってことか…普通くん+11
Doomroar
Oh come on just get married already!
Shin was sitting on top of Shidaruma all along in the credits!!!
やばくね!?もう結婚しちゃえよマジで!!
つーかエンディングでシンがシダルマの上に座ってたのまじでやばいじゃん!!ギャル+11
lucypee
It gets better and better by each episode.
But deep, deep in my heart i just want caiman back
毎話毎に面白くなってるね。
でも心の奥底ではカイマンに戻ってほしいって思ってるんだよな。普通くん+11
theKGS
I miss Caiman's antics. He's great.
確かに!カイマンのドタバタ劇が恋しすぎる…彼が最高すぎるんだよなッ!感情くん+6
ak_them
anyone know if the manga chapter was written during the IRL toilet paper crisis?
この漫画の話、実際のトイレットペーパー不足の時期に書かれたのか気になるな普通くん+9
KrzyDankus
these chapters were released around 2009, so no (assuming you are talking about the 2020 covid toilet paper stuff)
え、それ2009年くらいの話じゃん!2020年のトイレットペーパー騒動とは全然関係ないってことだよ〜笑ギャル+23
AlbacoreDumbleberg
Is the black liquid the Cross Eyes were cleaning the same as the black sludge from the Hole that, I presume, Kai was born from? So, he goes to be alone and bathes in it?
クロスアイズが掃除してた黒い液体って、ホールの黒い泥と同じなんか?それでカイはそこから生まれたってことか?つまり、一人でその中に浸かってるってわけ?草2ちゃん+10
Granito_Rey
One month later, the En family was destroyed.
*Dorohedoro*
Raw af lol
一ヶ月後、煙ファミリーは壊滅したんだって。
*ドロヘドロ*
生々しすぎて草普通くん+7
misc_reddit_account
原文
The continual heartbreak of Dorohedoro is that you will fall in love with all the characters, and then they will try and kill each other in absolutely horrifying ways. The hallway fight was brutal, and you know Shin means business when he puts on his mask correctly. Everyone ended the episode better than I expected, at least! Shou and Natsuki putting in the work there. And welcome, Shou! Who has been in the end credits all along, whoops.
I've seen so few shows in general manage the dark comedy tonal whiplash like Dorohedoro, and I can't wait to catch up with the manga, too. The opening of the episode was ruthless, but then Haru showed up, hysterically expressing her feelings in song, and then peaces out, unknowingly delaying the Boss vs. Curse fight for another day. (I genuinely started in surprise when the Boss spotted Curse at the window.) Seeing the horror of the En mansion getting torn apart was so devastating, too, but then there was joy of Aikawa gleefully running away from cafeteria. I know Aikawa and Kaiman aren't the same, but I still felt nostalgic for Kaiman for a moment.
Ai. Aikawa. Kai. Kaiman. And now we now the specifics with Risu and his curse, and what must have happened on that faithful day. The Ebisu element along with the journey from Ai to Aikawa to Kai is still hidden in the chaos. (I think.) Poor Aikawa is going to be really confused when Risu attacks him, though at least Curse knows it wasn't Aikawa who killed Risu. It's intriguing that a Devil's Song can nullify a curse. Haru could be very helpful if she could be bothered, lol.
As other comments have talked about, it's interesting which of the four Ai variations have access/awareness of each other. Kaiman did figure out that he had a connection to Aikawa, but for me it is currently ambiguous whether Aikawa has any of Kaiman's memories. Kai seems to have access to Aikawa's consciousness and/or memories, but not the reverse. I'm still amused that Aikawa and Kai seem to change their pants when they switch from cream to black respectively. I'm curious if Kai/Kaiman's bone jacket is under Aikawa's hoodie, or whether that gets swapped out as well.
One fun attention to detail from the S2 opening is the '96925' that is sung is the number shown on Ai's ID in his backstory episode.
『ドロヘドロ』の切なさは、全キャラに愛着が湧いた瞬間、彼らがお互いに凄惨な方法で殺し合おうとするところにある。廊下での戦闘は容赦なかったし、シンが正しくマスクを装着した時点で本気度が伝わる。とはいえ、各キャラのエピソード終盤の状態は予想よりマシだった。ショウとナツキが奮闘したおかげだ。そして、エンドクレジットにずっと登場していたショウがついに本編に! うっかりミスだったか。
ダークコメディのトーンを急転換させる作品はそう多くない。マンガも追いかけたい。冒頭は容赦なかったが、ハルが登場して歌で感情を爆発させ、そのまま去り、知らず知らずのうちにボスとカースの対決を先延ばしにした。ボスが窓にカースを発見した瞬間は本当に驚いた。エン邸が破壊される恐怖も衝撃的だったが、アイカワが食堂から嬉々として逃げる場面には喜びがあった。アイカワとカイマンは同一人物ではないと分かっていても、一瞬カイマンを懐かしく思った。
アイ、アイカワ、カイ、カイマン。そしてリスの呪いの詳細と、あの運命の日に起きたことの輪郭が見えてきた。エビス要素と、アイからアイカワ、カイへの変遷はまだ混沌の中に隠されている。アイカワがリスに襲われる時、かなり混乱するだろうが、少なくともカースはアイカ考察くん+9
loungensmirtz
After watching that shit penultimate for boys. I needed something good to watch and this delivered on it.
マジでドロヘドロ最高すぎるッ!前のやつで心折れてたけど、これで完全に回復したわ。エモすぎる優勝!感情くん+8
Countless-Alts15
what a trippy ass episode..so much info goin down
めっちゃトリップする回だったな…情報量多すぎ普通くん+7
sdas99
原文
My working theory after this episode:
Ai Coleman grows up wanting to become a sorcerer. He nearly dies, and Kasukabe saves him with a surgery that turns him into a sorcerer.
Later on, Ai seems to develop split personalities - Aikawa and Kai. Kai uses En's smoke detection machine and realizes that Risu has a ton of magical energy. Kai kills Risu, with the goal of using surgery to enhance his own magical abilities, but he doesn't realize that killing Risu releases Risu's Magic Curse.
Curse is then fixated on getting revenge against Kai specifically, but not necessarily Aikawa.
Then something involving Ebisu's magic transforms Kai/Aikawa into Caiman, who loses all his memories.
This episode also shows Kai doing some surgery and then having En's mushroom powers. So the overall plot might be: Kai is trying to accumulate sorcerer abilities, and Curse is hunting him for killing Risu.
このエピソードを踏まえての考察:
・アイ・コールマンは魔術師になりたくて、死にかけたところを春日部の手術で魔術師にされたと推測できる。
・その後、アイは相川とカイという二重人格を形成。カイがエンの煙感知機を使ってリスの膨大な魔力を察知し、殺害。その目的は手術で魔力を強化することだが、リスの死が魔法の呪いを解放するとは気づいていなかった。
・呪いはカイ個人への復讐に特化しており、相川は対象外。
・エビスの魔法がカイ/相川をカイマンに変え、記憶を消失させた。
・カイが手術後にエンのキノコ能力を得た描写から、全体の流れは「カイが魔術師能力を収集→呪いがリスの仇を追う」構造だと思われる。考察くん+8
xhakami
Ok but if you know that the guy you want to steal their powers from has a curse type power taht activates when he dies, why would you killhim personally.
「その通りだよね。死んだら発動する呪い系の能力って分かってる相手を、わざわざ自分で殺す意味なくない?」普通くん+7
Ok_Shine_2828
that magic tester the crosseyes were waving around looked it only really gave a 1-5 rating with bars. I think he only knew that risu's magic was powerful, but not specifically what it was.
それな!クロスアイズが振り回してた魔力量テスター、1〜5のバー表示しかなかったっぽいじゃん?てかリスの魔法が強いってのはわかってたけど、具体的に何かまでは知らなかったって感じだよね笑ギャル+16
SebinSun
\[haven't read the manga yet\] if Kai is after powerful curses, it makes me feel worried for Nikaido (Kai learning about her magic type)..
[マンガ未読] カイが強力な呪いを追ってるなら、二階堂が心配すぎる…!彼女の魔法のタイプを知られたらヤバいってことだよな…マジでしんどいッ感情くん+6
Familiar-Ad-4802
Who was the cross eyes “boss” in dokugas flashback?
毒蛾の回想シーンに出てきたロンパリの「ボス」って誰?普通くん+5
NoHead1715
I was wondering last episode what Haru's role in all this was, and there we have it. She's the anti-Curse who saved Kai unwittingly.
Shin and Noi almost did a perfect clean with the poverty gang all sliced up and bagged. Alas for Kai (with En's tumor I suppose) coming in with the mushrooms. Tables turned and the poverty gang gets a lifetime's supply of toilet paper.
前回のエピソードでハルの役割が何なのか気になってたんだけど、今回で判明したな。彼女はカイを無意識に救った「アンチ・呪い」的な存在だったという考察ができる。
シンとノイは貧困ギャングを切り刻んで袋詰めにして、ほぼ完璧な処理を遂行しかけた。しかしエンの腫瘍を抱えるカイがキノコを持って乱入。形勢逆転で貧困ギャングは一生分のトイレットペーパーを手に入れたわけだ。この展開、物語の因果関係を考えると興味深い。考察くん+6
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