+885
AAA_BATT
he really told my girl to do the equivalent of a knock knock joke twice.
あいつ、俺の推しにダジャレを二回もやれって言ったんだぜ。普通くん+127
Charming-Loquat3702
原文
While it can be funny to say "Jugemu Jugemu Gokō-no Surikire Kaijarisuigyo-no Kuunerutokoro-ni Sumutokoro Yaburakōji-no Burakōji Paipopaipo Paipo-no Shūringan Shūringan-no Gūrindai Gūrindai-no Ponpokopī-no Ponpokonā-no Chōkyūmei-no Chōsuke" really fast, I imagine that the "Jugemu Jugemu Gokō-no Surikire Kaijarisuigyo-no Kuunerutokoro-ni Sumutokoro Yaburakōji-no Burakōji Paipopaipo Paipo-no Shūringan Shūringan-no Gūrindai Gūrindai-no Ponpokopī-no Ponpokonā-no Chōkyūmei-no Chōsuke" gets old quite fast. I mean imagine someone saying "Jugemu Jugemu Gokō-no Surikire Kaijarisuigyo-no Kuunerutokoro-ni Sumutokoro Yaburakōji-no Burakōji Paipopaipo Paipo-no Shūringan Shūringan-no Gūrindai Gūrindai-no Ponpokopī-no Ponpokonā-no Chōkyūmei-no Chōsuke" often, just to repeat saying "Jugemu Jugemu Gokō-no Surikire Kaijarisuigyo-no Kuunerutokoro-ni Sumutokoro Yaburakōji-no Burakōji Paipopaipo Paipo-no Shūringan Shūringan-no Gūrindai Gūrindai-no Ponpokopī-no Ponpokonā-no Chōkyūmei-no Chōsuke" the next day as well. All the "Jugemu Jugemu Gokō-no Surikire Kaijarisuigyo-no Kuunerutokoro-ni Sumutokoro Yaburakōji-no Burakōji Paipopaipo Paipo-no Shūringan Shūringan-no Gūrindai Gūrindai-no Ponpokopī-no Ponpokonā-no Chōkyūmei-no Chōsuke" and "Jugemu Jugemu Gokō-no Surikire Kaijarisuigyo-no Kuunerutokoro-ni Sumutokoro Yaburakōji-no Burakōji Paipopaipo Paipo-no Shūringan Shūringan-no Gūrindai Gūrindai-no Ponpokopī-no Ponpokonā-no Chōkyūmei-no Chōsuke"ing will need some twist otherwise it's Jugemuover
確かに、「寿限無寿限無五劫のすりきれ…」を高速で言うのは一瞬の笑いを呼ぶが、その呪文が何度も繰り返されるうちに、我が魂は倦怠の闇に蝕まれるのだ。あの長大な詠唱を毎日浴びせられる日々を想像してみよ——明日も明後日も、同じ呪文が響き渡る。全ての「寿限無…」には何かしらの変化が必要だ。さもなくば、それはまさに「寿限無オーバー」という名の終焉を迎えるだろう。中二病+77
ivanjean
>it's Jugemuover
I believe you mean "It's Jugemu Jugemu Gokō-no Surikire Kaijarisuigyo-no Kuunerutokoro-ni Sumutokoro Yaburakōji-no Burakōji Paipopaipo Paipo-no Shūringan Shūringan-no Gūrindai Gūrindai-no Ponpokopī-no Ponpokonā-no Chōkyūmei-no Chōsukeover".
まあ「寿限無over」って言いたいんだろうけど、正式には「寿限無寿限無五劫のすりきれ海砂利水魚の水行末雲来末風来末食う寝るところに住むところやぶらこうじのぶらこうじパイポパイポパイポのシューリンガンシューリンガンのグーリンダイグーリンダイのポンポコピーのポンポコナーの長久命の長助over」だよな。ドライおじ+50
Charming-Loquat3702
原文
While "Jugemu Jugemu Gokō-no Surikire Kaijarisuigyo-no Kuunerutokoro-ni Sumutokoro Yaburakōji-no Burakōji Paipopaipo Paipo-no Shūringan Shūringan-no Gūrindai Gūrindai-no Ponpokopī-no Ponpokonā-no Chōkyūmei-no Chōsukeover" fits the scheme of the joke to say "Jugemu Jugemu Gokō-no Surikire Kaijarisuigyo-no Kuunerutokoro-ni Sumutokoro Yaburakōji-no Burakōji Paipopaipo Paipo-no Shūringan Shūringan-no Gūrindai Gūrindai-no Ponpokopī-no Ponpokonā-no Chōkyūmei-no Chōsuke" as often as possible, not adding "Jugemu Jugemu Gokō-no Surikire Kaijarisuigyo-no Kuunerutokoro-ni Sumutokoro Yaburakōji-no Burakōji Paipopaipo Paipo-no Shūringan Shūringan-no Gūrindai Gūrindai-no Ponpokopī-no Ponpokonā-no Chōkyūmei-no Chōsuke" and only writing Jugemuover adds a nice contrast because "Jugemu Jugemu Gokō-no Surikire Kaijarisuigyo-no Kuunerutokoro-ni Sumutokoro Yaburakōji-no Burakōji Paipopaipo Paipo-no Shūringan Shūringan-no Gūrindai Gūrindai-no Ponpokopī-no Ponpokonā-no Chōkyūmei-no Chōsuke" is long, you need something short for the contrast
確かに、フルネームを毎回言うのは長すぎるから、「Jugemuover」で締めるのは良いコントラストになってるね。普通くん+14
Hounds_of_war
Honestly, fair handicap when she is competing in an amateur competition despite having been getting informal training from a master for the better part of a decade.
確かにw 十年近く師匠についてた奴がアマチュア大会に出てる時点でハンデも当然だよな笑wwwおじ+67
Frontier246
Also a good way of giving her the motivation to show everybody in said amateur competition how legit she is as a performer.
まあそれも一つの手だな。アマチュア大会で自分の実力をみんなに見せつけるいい動機付けになるだろう。ドライおじ+34
rubslotiononitsskin
She basically smurfing
それな!まじでアマチュア大会にほぼプロみたいな子が出てるのズルすぎじゃん笑ギャル+8
doomrider7
Basically yeah. It's like the most basic story in Rakugo.
確かに。落語で一番ベーシックなネタだよね。普通くん+37
Charming-Loquat3702
原文
While it can be funny to say "Jugemu Jugemu Gokō-no Surikire Kaijarisuigyo-no Kuunerutokoro-ni Sumutokoro Yaburakōji-no Burakōji Paipopaipo Paipo-no Shūringan Shūringan-no Gūrindai Gūrindai-no Ponpokopī-no Ponpokonā-no Chōkyūmei-no Chōsuke" really fast, I imagine that the "Jugemu Jugemu Gokō-no Surikire Kaijarisuigyo-no Kuunerutokoro-ni Sumutokoro Yaburakōji-no Burakōji Paipopaipo Paipo-no Shūringan Shūringan-no Gūrindai Gūrindai-no Ponpokopī-no Ponpokonā-no Chōkyūmei-no Chōsuke" gets old quite fast. I mean imagine someone saying "Jugemu Jugemu Gokō-no Surikire Kaijarisuigyo-no Kuunerutokoro-ni Sumutokoro Yaburakōji-no Burakōji Paipopaipo Paipo-no Shūringan Shūringan-no Gūrindai Gūrindai-no Ponpokopī-no Ponpokonā-no Chōkyūmei-no Chōsuke" often, just to repeat saying "Jugemu Jugemu Gokō-no Surikire Kaijarisuigyo-no Kuunerutokoro-ni Sumutokoro Yaburakōji-no Burakōji Paipopaipo Paipo-no Shūringan Shūringan-no Gūrindai Gūrindai-no Ponpokopī-no Ponpokonā-no Chōkyūmei-no Chōsuke" the next day as well. All the "Jugemu Jugemu Gokō-no Surikire Kaijarisuigyo-no Kuunerutokoro-ni Sumutokoro Yaburakōji-no Burakōji Paipopaipo Paipo-no Shūringan Shūringan-no Gūrindai Gūrindai-no Ponpokopī-no Ponpokonā-no Chōkyūmei-no Chōsuke" and "Jugemu Jugemu Gokō-no Surikire Kaijarisuigyo-no Kuunerutokoro-ni Sumutokoro Yaburakōji-no Burakōji Paipopaipo Paipo-no Shūringan Shūringan-no Gūrindai Gūrindai-no Ponpokopī-no Ponpokonā-no Chōkyūmei-no Chōsuke"ing will need some twist otherwise it's Jugemuover
確かに「寿限無寿限無」を早口で言うのは一発芸としてはウケるけど、毎回それやられたら飽きるやろwww
「寿限無寿限無…(以下略)」を連発して、次の日もまた「寿限無寿限無…(以下略)」って言われたら流石にキツいンゴ。
あれに何かアレンジがないと、まさに「寿限無オーバー」やな。2ちゃん+8
Bassaluna
Guriko keeps stealing the laughs for me. i died when master shiguma said he could hear them and you see him run away because he was trying to hear their conversation again, or how he explains koguma while they are in the bike and akane can't hear him.
ぐりこが毎回笑いをかっさらってくな。師匠のシグマが「聞こえるぞ」って言ったあと、また会話を聞こうとして逃げていくシーンで死んだわ。あとバイクに乗ってる時に小ぐまの説明してるのにあかねに聞こえてないとことか。普通くん+118
Frontier246
Shiguma: "Maybe next time you have a conversation literally outside my home where I have a panoramic view of the outside you use your indoor voices?"
【返信】
シグマ殿:「次は拙者の家の外、見晴らしの良い場所で話す時は室内の声を使うが良い」と申されたようでござるな。某も思わず笑いをこらえきれず、腹を抱えて転げ申した。武士+38
ButterIsMyLifeblood
Akane has her Rock Lee weights on now
あかねがロック・リーの重り装備した感じになってるッ!感情くん+113
Frontier246
Pray we never see how dangerous she is when she's old enough to drink.
確かに、酒が飲める年齢になったあかねがどれだけ危険か想像したくないな。普通くん+41
italeteller
It'd be really funny if she ends up being a total lightweight
草、酒弱い設定だったら笑うわwww
未成年の時は危険すぎて手出せないけど、飲める年齢になったら即ベロンベロンで逆に可愛いやんw2ちゃん+18
ModieOfTheEast
原文
I found it a bit funny when they said that everyone basically knows Jugemo, even if they are not into Rakugo. Because at that point I was thinking that I don't know it. But when they performed it, I remembered I had heard or read about this story with the stupidly long name. So they were more than right.
From a story perspective, it is an interesting challenge though. You have to make people love with a joke that everyone knows already and you have to do it twice. Will be interesting to see how Akane can manage that. However, my feeling is that Sensei wants to relate this back to Akane's father. In order for this to work, she has to "modify" the story in certain aspects and focus on different tings in both performances. And in episode 1, this is what made the Rakugo purists so outraged because Akane's father removed the description of the sea. It was still working for the audience, but the not the jury. So it is a double challenge because the jury (especially that person) will not take it lightly if the contents are changed.
「落語に興味なくても十原因(じゅうげも)って皆知ってる」って言われて、最初は「いや俺知らねえし」って思ったんだけど、実際に演じられてみたら確かにあのむちゃくちゃ長いタイトルの話をどこかで聞いたことあったわ。だからあのセリフは正しかったんだな。
ストーリー的に見ると面白い挑戦だよね。誰もが知ってるネタで笑わせなきゃいけない上に、それを2回もやるんだから。あかねがどうやって乗り越えるのか気になる。ただ、師匠はこれをあかねの父親と結びつけたいんじゃないかな。うまくいくには、話の一部を変えたり、2回の演目で焦点を変えたりしないといけない。第1話で落語の純粋主義者たちが怒ったのも、父親が海の描写を削ったからだし。観客にはウケてたけど審査員にはダメだった。内容を変えると審査員(特にあの人)が厳しく見るから、二重の挑戦になりそうだね。普通くん+109
garfe
原文
> But when they performed it, I remembered I had heard or read about this story with the stupidly long name.
It's probably the only rakugo related thing a non-enthusiast of rakugo into anime would know because of the ED of Joshiraku and this one skit in FMAB where they did the whole thing. This is what made me think "ah, this must be like level 1 of rakugo" when they were talking about it.
EDIT: And it was in Gintama as another comment noted.
> でも実際に演じられてるの見て、「あ、このむっちゃ長いタイトルの話、聞いたことあるわ」ってなったンゴ
多分、落語に詳しくないアニメファンが知ってる唯一の落語ネタやろな。『じょしらく』のEDと『鋼の錬金術師』のスキットでフルでやってたし。ワイはこれ聞いて「ああ、これが落語の初級編みたいなもんか」って思ったわ。
追記:銀魂でもやってたって他の人が言うてたな。2ちゃん+79
ModieOfTheEast
I guess it is a very typical starting lesson for Rakugo which is why they all learn it. I feel with most stories, it doesn't matter if you change a line here or there, but this story needs you to remember the name and be confident enough that the story still flows. Like I assume you can change the name, but it has to be consistent throughout the story.
確かにそれは落語でめちゃくちゃよくある最初の課題だよね。大抵の話はちょっと台詞変えても問題ないけど、この話だけは名前を正確に覚えて、自信持って話を流れるように進めなきゃいけないってのがポイントだと思う。名前変えてもいいんだろうけど、話の中で一貫してないとダメなんだろうな。普通くん+23
ali94127
No, I think the name is like the entire bit and most people know it, so you can't change the name.
いやいや、名前自体がネタの一部だし、みんな知ってるから変えられないじゃん!ギャル+33
carebearmentor
In this case the name is the one thing you don't change but you can very easily add new situations where the name becomes the punchline. They've already shown there's two "official" endings but I think the build ups are low stakes enough that changing them is very acceptable.
せやな、名前だけは変えちゃダメってのがミソやな。でも新しいシチュエーションを追加して、その名前をオチに持っていくのはめっちゃ簡単やん。公式の結末が2パターンあるってのは既に出てるけど、ここまでの積み上げは大した重みないし、変えても全然アリやと思うわ。2ちゃん+13
mekerpan
Wasm't it also in *Shōwa Genroku Rakugo Shinjū*?
確かに!それ『昭和元禄落語心中』にも出てきたやつじゃん!まじで同じ話だよね笑ギャル+7
Panory
Personally, recognized it from here.
せやな、ワイもここで知ったわwww2ちゃん+45
Charming-Loquat3702
I actually knew the Gintama version first
あっ私、銀魂バージョンの方を先に知ってたんだよね!やばくない?笑ギャル+27
sidewinderaw11
Apparently Utage recites his whole name in the last season of Tamon-kun (episode 8) as a calming device
確かに、タモンくんの最終話(8話)で宴がフルネーム呼んでたの、落ち着くための手段だったんだね普通くん+15
generictypo
This is the first thing that popped into my head as soon as they mentioned Jugemu.
I guess they weren't lying when they said it's probably the most popular rakugo story, with it being known outside of rakugo.
ワイも最初に銀魂のやつ思い浮かべたわwww
確かに「寿限無」って落語以外でも知られてるってのはガチやな。2ちゃん+6
Castor_0il
Shame no one in here knew Jugemu from Konatsu's performance in Showa Genroku Rakugo Shinjuu, which was a massive highlight for her character in a world where Rakugo performers were mostly male.
マジでそれな!昭和元禄落語心中の小夏が演じた寿限無を知ってる人ここにいないの残念すぎん?笑 あのシーン、男社会の落語界で彼女が輝く超大事な場面だったのに!ギャル+15
Panory
In fairness, when the claim is "even people who don't know Rakugo know Jugemu," citing the Rakugo anime doesn't really support the claim.
確かに、でも「落語知らなくても寿限無は知ってる」って主張に対して、落語アニメを引用するのはあんま根拠になってない気がするな。普通くん+7
Phnglui
I think most westerners would recognize it from Tikki Tikki Tembo which is almost definitely inspired by Jugemu.
「Tikki Tikki TemboってJugemuから来てる説ガチやんwww」
「確かにワイもそれ思い出したわ。西洋人でもあれ聞いたことあるやろ」2ちゃん+11
Frontier246
Instead of focusing on just being able to get Jugemu's name out there from beginning to end, Akane should probably just do what her dad would and make it all about the characters. Like how the story was supposed to tug at your hearstrings because the poor kid dies from having his name be far too long.
確かに、ジュゲムの名前を完璧に言うことより、父親みたいにキャラクターに焦点を当てるべきだと思う。本来は名前が長すぎて子供が死ぬって話で、感情を揺さぶるはずなのにね。普通くん+13
ModieOfTheEast
But as mentioned, is that something that our big boss would appreciate? I can already see him fuming and giving Akane a bad score for it.
確かに!でもそれって師匠が評価すると思う?笑 もう頭にきて低評価つけるとこ想像できちゃうんだけど〜ギャル+9
RPO777
Many Americans are familiar with the story through the 1968 children's picture book Tiki-tiki Tembo (by the American Arlene Morsel) that basically wholesale rips-off the entire rakugo story and re-sets the tale in ancient China, but with a nonsense name that doesn't actually mean anything in Chinese or Japanese (all the parts of the name in Jugemu are real Buddhist references of good fortune).
確かに、アメリカでは1968年の絵本『Tiki-tiki Tembo』でこの話を知ってる人多いんだよね。あれ、ほぼそのまま落語の話をパクって古代中国に舞台変えしただけだし、しかも名前が中国語でも日本語でも意味不明で、本家のじゅげむの各パーツはちゃんとした縁起のいい仏教用語なのにって思うとちょっと笑える。普通くん+5
CuriousWanderer567
It’s gonna be interesting to find out why Shiguma basically told Akane to repeat a dad joke in front of the same audience and professional judges.
シグマがなんであかねにあんな親父ギャグを同じ観客とプロ審査員の前でやらせたのか、その理由が気になりすぎるンゴwww2ちゃん+106
Frontier246
I feel like Koguma telling her how it originally ended in heartbreaking fashion and all the research means Akane is going to liven/spruce it up with a more emotional, human, touch.
確かに、小熊が元の終わり方が衝撃的だったって教えたことと、あかねのリサーチを考えると、彼女はもっと人間味あふれる感動的なアレンジを加えてくるんじゃないかな。普通くん+57
ali94127
Akane is basically a professional rakugoka in training. She's been coached by a professional since childhood. She already has a massive advantage compared to most amateurs.
せやな、あかねはガチのプロ養成コースやもんな。小さい頃からプロに指導されてきたんやから、素人とは土俵が違うンゴwww そのアドバンテージはデカいわ。2ちゃん+53
JohnatanWills
原文
I assume at least part of it is to teach her how to adapt her stories. She CANNOT win by telling the same story twice. She will pass the first round with it off her skills alone but has no chance in the second when everyone has already heard the story so recently. Yet obviously she can't switch to a different story so her only option is to tell the same story in a new way where it becomes a whole new story and can make people laugh again
確かに。少なくともその場で話をアレンジする力を身につけさせるってのはあるかもね。同じ話を2回やって勝つのは無理だし。1回目は実力で突破できるけど、直後にまた同じ話じゃ誰も笑わない。かといって別の話に変えるわけにもいかないから、同じ話を新しい形に変えて、また笑わせるしかないってことか。普通くん+50
mekerpan
I wonder if it is possible to tell the story the common fashion in round one, and then do the (shocking) original version in round two? And -- even if it is possible -- might it infuriate the codger overseeing the competition (who already expelled her father -- and might black list her if she aggravates him too).
せやな、1ラウンド目は王道でいって、2ラウンド目でぶっ飛んだオリジナル版をぶち込むってのはアリかもな。でも、それやったら審査してるジジイ(もう父親追放してるし)がキレてワイらがブラックリスト入りするリスクもあるンゴwww2ちゃん+7
sesaman
Seeing how he's a real traditionalist, he might actually appreciate the original telling more than all the other judges.
確かに、彼は本物の伝統主義者だから、他の審査員よりむしろ元の語り口を評価するかもね。普通くん+10
Worthyness
As a teacher, you gotta give your students a challenge so that they improve and learn on their own craft. Since she's mostly grown up in the industry, she's very likely way ahead of her peers the same age range. So as a challenge, make her win using one of the most common stories.
師として、生徒には自らの技術を磨くための挑戦を与える必要がある。彼女は業界でほぼ育ってきたから、同年代の仲間よりずっと先を行っている可能性が高い。だからこそ、最もありふれた話で勝たせるという挑戦を課したんだろう。これは成長を促すための意図的な指導と考察できる。考察くん+25
doomrider7
It's like what Guriko and Koguma said, she's basically sandbagging HARD since she's effectively a full on Pro mogging on amateurs hence the massive handicap of PERFORMING Jugemu like a Pro.
確かに、グリコとこぐまが言ってた通りだね。彼女は完全にプロなのにアマチュア相手に手加減しまくってて、その分ジュゲムをプロ並みに演じるっていう大きなハンデを背負ってるんだよな。普通くん+11
Maybe_this_time_fr
Because she's essentially smurfing.
それな!完全にサブアカウントで下位帯に潜ってるだけだよなww 師匠の意図が気になりすぎるッ!感情くん+5
Aileos
A clean haircut can really change you into a completely different person.
確かに、髪型ひとつで印象ってガラッと変わるよね。普通くん+83
Frontier246
Koguma has mastered the art of "oh no, he's hotter with his bangs up!"
それなッ!小熊の前髪上げた姿、まじで「あれ?イケメンすぎない?」ってなるやつ。無理、優勝すぎるッ!感情くん+47
UserIsOptional
The hidden art of "Style your hair properly"
確かに。髪を上げると急にイケメンになるってやつ、小熊が極めてるよね。普通くん+9
Worthyness
Also taking off glasses. That makes them into a completely different person!
確かに!眼鏡外すだけで別人すぎるッ!感情くん+5
thisisdropd
原文
Who'd have thought the man on the stage oozing with confidence turned out to be the same as the gloomy senior? Koguma really pulled a Clark Kent! Even if you ignore the glasses, he looked nothing like his stage persona. From the hairstyle, to the posture, to the voice. The only clue was his hair colour.
Shiguma had placed Akane under a severe handicap. Not only was Jugemu a basic story, she's restricted to only that one while other contestants were free to perform multiple. That meant that she would have to perform the same story twice. It's quite the steep challenge. However, Shiguma must have had his reasons for it.
___
Hilarious how Akane assumed Kyouji was Koguma's senior when it's the other way around. In her defence, most of us would've made the same assumption as her.
あの舞台で溢れんばかりの自信を見せていた男が、あの陰気な先輩だったとは誰が想像できただろうか。コグマ、まさにクラーク・ケント状態だな!眼鏡を無視しても、髪型、姿勢、声に至るまで、ステージ上の姿とはまったく別人だった。唯一の手がかりは髪色だけだった。
シグマはあかねにかなり厳しいハンデを課していたと言える。寿限無が基本演目であるだけでなく、他の出場者が複数の演目を自由に披露できる中、彼女はその一つだけに制限されていた。つまり、同じ演目を二度披露しなければならなかったわけだ。これはかなり険しい挑戦だ。しかし、シグマにはそれなりの理由があったはずだという考察ができる。
あかねが鏡志をコグマの先輩だと勘違いしたのは笑えるが、実際は逆だった。彼女を擁護するなら、私たちのほとんども同じ思い込みをしただろうな。考察くん+63
doomrider7
That's how Clark Kenting works homie. 😉
それな、クラーク・ケント方式ってやつだよね😉普通くん+26
Frontier246
He's even got his own S-curl with that lingering hair over his face!
草、顔にかかった前髪でSカールも完備やんけwww
クラーク・ケント理論ガチで草生えるわw2ちゃん+9
Frontier246
>Who'd have thought the man on the stage oozing with confidence turned out to be the same as the gloomy senior? Koguma really pulled a Clark Kent! Even if you ignore the glasses, he looked nothing like his stage persona. From the hairstyle, to the posture, to the voice. The only clue was his hair colour.
He managed to make a history lesson entertaining! That takes real skill!
確かに、あの暗い先輩とステージ上の男が同一人物とは驚きだ。コグマはまさにクラーク・ケント級の変身だな。メガネを無視しても、髪型、姿勢、声、すべてが別人。唯一の手がかりは髪色だけだった。
歴史の授業を面白くできるのは、本当に技術がいる。あれは才能だと思う。考察くん+9
ButterIsMyLifeblood
There’s so many good Akane moments this episode. I loved that they animated her backpack flipping over her head when she bowed. Plus always appreciate seeing her fangs.
今週のあかねのシーン良すぎるッ!バックパックが頭の上でひっくり返るところアニメでやってくれて嬉しすぎた。あと牙が見えるのも毎回エモいんだよな!感情くん+55
Frontier246
Her completely defeated look during Akane-Kobanashi lol.
あかねの完敗顔マジで草生えたわwww あかね小話のときのあの表情ガチでやばいやん2ちゃん+33
xbolt90
He's right, even though I never really knew much about rakugo, even I know the story of Jugemu.
Can't wait to see how she makes the story hers!
マジでそれな!私も落語のことあんま詳しくなかったけど、Jugemuの話だけはさすがに知ってるんだよね笑
彼女がどうやって自分流にアレンジしていくのかマジ楽しみじゃん!?ギャル+52
oxlemf10
原文
Koguma brought up something that seems obvious, but at the same time goes unnoticed. Rakugo stories always relate to the historical context of their time; studying history isn't just a way to understand how history works, but also how to behave during the presentation.
I have high expectations for this arc, and I also hope the teacher appears more; she's a good character in the show (and beautiful).
コグマが言ってたのは当たり前だけど見落としがちなポイントだね。落語の話はいつもその時代の歴史的背景と結びついてる。歴史を学ぶのは仕組みを理解するためだけじゃなくて、演じ方にも活かせるんだな。
この編には期待してるし、先生ももっと出てきてほしい。いいキャラだし綺麗だよね。普通くん+49
Frontier246
I love how Akane who seems to struggle with studying or being invested in anything not related to Rakugo finally cares about studying if it means she can apply it to Rakugo lol.
確かに!あかねが勉強できないタイプなのに、落語に活かせるってなったら急にやる気出すの最高すぎるッ笑感情くん+23
Worthyness
Turns out people really like to learn cool stuff about their hobbies
某も思うに、趣味の深掘りは実に面白きもの。あかねが落語以外に興味を示さぬのも納得でござる。武士+9
RepulsiveRevenue8
Funny thing is Iwa sensei and Koguma have so much in common including the hair.
I might have ship them
確かに。岩師匠と小熊、髪型含めて似てるところ多いよね。
なんか二人をくっつけたくなってきたわ。普通くん+7
RedAlkaline
Kojima and Iwa-sensei look like they'd get along great, both being bookworm and all
確かにwww 小島と岩先生、どっちも本の虫ってことで気合い合いそうだよな笑wwwおじ+6
KumaKumaGambler
Moral of this episode: Knowledge is power.
Iwa sensei's suggestion for Akane to join a competition, Karaku Cup in this case, had the unexpected result of getting Akane to read more books, not just titles related to rakugo. Of course, Koguma played a big role in steering Akane towards this direction.
このエピソードの教訓:知識は力なりって感じだね。
岩先生が茜にからく杯への参加を勧めたのが、思わぬ形で茜に落語以外の本を読ませることになったのは面白い。もちろん、小熊がその方向に導いたのは大きいと思う。普通くん+46
Frontier246
原文
It really shows the diversity and skill that goes into rakugo that even where it's not a full-on comedy performance and more of a history lesson, it can still be engaging.
Akane started off as a young rakugo prodigy but she's still young enough to be able to learn and take in more lessons to be able to better and perfect er rakugo. Being more mindful of the audience, the rakugo story itself, the history behind it, etc.
【返信先】「知識は力」って回やったな
落語ってガチの笑い話だけじゃなくて歴史の授業みたいなパターンでもちゃんと面白いんやなって思ったわ。その多様性と技術の深さがすげえわ。
あかねは最初から天才肌やったけど、まだまだ学べる年齢やし、観客のこととか演目の背景とか歴史とか、もっと吸収して自分の落語を磨ける余裕があるんやな。成長が楽しみやわ。2ちゃん+22
TsukumoYurika
# Rakugo Q&A desk
You get the mantra, sorry I'm late (was busy buying merch of my faves) 😊
遅くなってごめんね!推しのグッズ買いまくってたんだけど笑
あ、でもマントラはちゃんとゲットしたよ!😊ギャル+40
ParasaurolophusZ
I wonder if it's normal to get the same feeling from some of these stories as I do from Abbott and Costello, especially with that deadpan pun ending. I sort of get the feeling that something like Who's On First would fit right in with the neverending wordplay (aside from the translation difficulty). Are there similar stories in rakugo?
せやな、アボット&コステロみたいな感覚になるのわかるわ。特にあのポーカーフェイスでオチるパターンな。『Who's On First』みたいな無限言葉遊び、翻訳難しいけど落語にも似たようなネタあるんかな?ワイも気になるンゴwww2ちゃん+19
kixiron
Besides *Jugemu*, what other rakugo stories are considered too basic/fundamental/too well-known?
EDIT: Is *Shinigami* one of them, since it is also well-known, and it's likely to be European in origin (listed under ATU-332)?
「*Jugemu*」以外で、基本すぎる/有名すぎる落語の演目って何かある?
編集:*Shinigami*も有名だし、ヨーロッパ起源っぽいから(ATU-332に載ってるし)、それも該当するのかな?普通くん+14
Ancient_Breakfast_48
Akane-banashi faves? What merch did you pick up?
あかね噺の推し!?どんなグッズ買ったの?気になる~!感情くん+9
TsukumoYurika
Faves as in my favourite IRL hanashika actually :3 (I wonder why still no one has asked me about my actual favourites, but I promise to write a bit more about them next week)
ああ、リアル落語家でお気に入りって意味だったのか!(なんで誰も本当の推しについて聞いてこないんだろう…来週もう少し詳しく書くって約束するよ)普通くん+13
Ancient_Breakfast_48
Oh I didn't really think about rakugoka having merch but it makes sense. Hah.
確かに!落語家のグッズってあんまり考えたことなかったけど、言われてみれば確かにあるよな。ははっ。感情くん+6
affnn
How big of a faux pas would it be for Akane to enter a competition for amateurs at this stage of her training? Characters in the show had two different opinions.
確かに、あかねが今の修行段階でアマチュア向けの大会に出るのはどうなんだろうね。作中でも意見が分かれてたみたいだけど。普通くん+8
TsukumoYurika
The closest IRL equivalent of Karaku Cup, the Sakuden Taisho explicitly restricts participation to amateur performers (though there isn't any exact elaboration in the rules) so yeah, it's quite a faux pas in my eyes at least...
せやな…現実の「さくらくん大賞」ってアマチュア限定やから、カラクカップもそれに近いルールやろな。少なくともワイの目にはかなりのタブーやと思うわ。2ちゃん+10
JJVM99
原文
This episode really did a good job at getting me invested in the tournament and Akane having to win only with Jugemu makes it even more interesting to see how she will do it.
After seeing her perform Jugemu even though I don’t know anything about Rakugo I ended up agreeing with Koguma. While she was telling the story my main thought was “it’s impressive she can tell the story with so many complicated words without any issue” but it felt like she was just telling it without any substantial charm to make her stand out. Akane has her own way of doing Rakugo but it isn’t as refined as the others where they have their own style that makes them special and I feel that she needs to find her style of delivering her stories to win.
But doing it in one way won’t just work she needs to come up with 2 ways to make Jugemu this very basic well known story stand out. Researching the history of Jogemu the way Koguma does will definetly help her but Koguma’s style wouldn’t work with her so she needs to come up with 2 different ways to do it. I don’t know how much Rakugo let’s you change a story for it to still be considered the same but based on the original story maybe making it into a tragic comedy where she can find a way of making the guy with the very long name dying because of that in Jogemu funny might be one way of telling the story but the other idk and it will be very interesting to see Akane’s solution and the other participants.
このエピソード、大会への没入感をしっかり高めてくれたよな。あかねが「寿限無」だけで勝たなきゃいけないっていう展開、どうやってそれを実現するのかますます気になる。
落語について何も知らなくても、彼女の「寿限無」を見て、結局小熊の意見に同意してしまった。語ってる最中、俺の主な感想は「こんな複雑な言葉を難なく言えるのはすごい」だったけど、それだけじゃ彼女を際立たせる本質的な魅力が足りない気がした。あかねには独自の落語のやり方があるけど、他の人たちのように自分を特別にするスタイルが洗練されてない。彼女は物語を伝える自分のスタイルを見つけて勝つ必要があると思う。
でも一つのやり方だけじゃダメで、この基本的で有名な「寿限無」を際立たせるために、二通りの方法を考え出さなきゃいけない。小熊みたいに「寿限無」の歴史を研究するのは確かに助けになるだろうけど、小熊のスタイルは彼女には合わないから、二つの異なるアプローチを編み出す必要がある。落語でどこまで物語を変えても同じと見なされるかは分からないけど、元の話を踏まえると、長い名前の男がそのせいで死ぬのを悲喜劇にして笑いを取るのが一つの方法かもしれない。もう一つは分からないけど、あかねの解決策と他の参加者がどう出るか、非常に楽しみだ。考察くん+35
Frontier246
To me it just felt like she performed it thinking the big achievement was being able to get through Jugemu's name without messing up, which clearly isn't going to help in the competition.
確かに、彼女は「寿限無」を噛まずに言い切ること自体が大きな成果だと思ってやってた感じがするよね。でもそれだけじゃ勝負にはならないってのはその通りだと思う。普通くん+16
ali94127
Jugemu isn't that much longer than Bangkok's full real name, which most Thai people know.
確かに!ジュゲムってさ、バンコクの正式名称より長くないし、タイ人なら大体知ってるじゃん!てかむしろそれ比べると短くね?笑ギャル+8
This-is_CMGRI
Click the Ani-One Asia link for SE Asia, and the official Akane-banashi channel for the rest. Go watch on YouTube when you're able, guys; the metrics have tangible effects.
Ani-One Asiaのリンクは東南アジア向け、他はあかね噺公式チャンネルやで。YouTubeで見れる時に見とけよ、マジで数字が結果に直結すっから。2ちゃん+30
kixiron
I watched via the Ani-One Philippines channel, and I get hard subs and no ads!
Ani-Oneフィリピンチャンネルで見たんだけど、ハード字幕で広告なしだったよ!普通くん+8
NanDemoKnaives
I wonder if Akane will do it the normal way in the first performance and change it up in the finals with the death. I'm sure it'd have impact that way.
Koguma with his stage hairdo looked good, the confidence he exuded helped a lot too.
確かに、あかねは一次予選では正統派で通して、決勝で死を絡めた改変版をぶつけてくる可能性は高いな。その流れなら、観客へのインパクトは格段に増すという考察ができる。
小熊の舞台用ヘアスタイルは良かったな。あの自信に満ちた佇まいも相まって、キャラクター性がより際立って見えた。考察くん+25
BaytaCosmico
原文
Yay! Chiaki Kobayashi character focus. This Koguma-ani is quite an interesting chap. I like the nerdy types and can totally relate to being into researching thoroughly like that as preparation. He's quite the looker too underneath those bangs and glasses. And he's loyal to Akane's father and seems to hold as much of a grudge against that Isso master as Akane herself over the infamous expulsion.
It's nice to see how each of these Anis kindles a passion for a different aspect of rakugo in Akane and how much she loves every part of rakugo.
Was funny to see her advisor sensei getting so into recommending books. Another relatable trait right there.
This tournament arc should be a good one. Oh, and that Jugemu thing just appeared last season in Tamon-kun! I need to go back and listen to Hayamin's version of it.
Oh, and I still wish people wouldn't talk over the performances though. I really want to see at least one uninterrupted performance in this show. It was especially annoying in this episode because the story being performed was not just a funny one but an informative one and I wanted to learn more about the setting he was describing.
小林千晃のキャラにスポットが当たって嬉しい!この小熊アニは面白い奴だね。俺もマジメに調べるタイプだから共感できる。前髪と眼鏡の下は結構イケメンだし。あかねの父ちゃんに忠実で、あのいっそ師匠に対する恨みもあかねと同じくらい強そう。
それぞれのアニが落語の違う魅力をあかねに教えてて、あかねが落語の全部を愛してるのがいいな。
顧問の先生が本を勧めまくるの笑った。それもまた共感できるわ。
今回のトーナメント編、良さそうだな。そういえば寿限無、今季の「多聞くん」にも出てたじゃん!早速はやみんのバージョン聴き直さないと。
でもやっぱり演目中に話すのやめてほしい。せめて一回は遮られずに演目見たいわ。特に今回は笑い話ってだけでなく教訓も含んでて、彼が説明してた設定をもっと知りたかったから余計にイライラした。普通くん+27
Frontier246
原文
>Oh, and I still wish people wouldn't talk over the performances though. I really want to see at least one uninterrupted performance in this show. It was especially annoying in this episode because the story being performed was not just a funny one but an informative one and I wanted to learn more about the setting he was describing.
I feel like they haven't quite consistently found that sweet spot where they can balance the reactions/opinions on the rakugo with the actual performance itself.
Like, you hear enough to know the seiyuu is doing a great job even if you still have to hear it overlapped with someone else's internal monologue.
確かに、この作品は落語の演技とそれに対する反応・考察のバランスを取るのが難しそうだよな。特に今回のエピソードでは、演じられている噺が単なる笑い話じゃなくて、設定を説明する情報量の多い内容だったから、余計に中断されるのが気になったんだろうな。
制作陣としては、観客の反応や内面描写を入れつつ、声優の演技をしっかり見せる絶妙なポイントをまだ掴みきれてないのかもしれない。声優が素晴らしい仕事をしているのは、モノローグと被っていても十分伝わってくるんだけどね。考察くん+13
BaytaCosmico
And that just makes it even more frustrating. I just want to shush the person talking over the performance so I can actually listen to the story.
せやな、それガチでイライラするわ。話してる奴に「シーッ!」って言いたくなるンゴwww ちゃんと話聞かせろや!2ちゃん+11
Worthyness
原文
I believe the interruptions are mostly to help explain the stories to people unfamiliar since the viewers may be wholly unfamiliar with any of them. It's also economical for the viewer. It's a quick way to tell the story to people without having to go through the actual story telling portion and lets you focus on the reactions for the most part. So it cuts down on the amount the VAs have to memorize and do, cuts down on the animation that they'd need to show one specific character doing/acting, and cuts down on the length of the episodes since they have to do character development + the stories. Each story takes probably 5-10 minutes, which in anime form is nearly half the episode. It'd be quite hard to progress the season if every episode was half just one story and then half character development. Though I'm hoping for a full performance in the "boss fight" stages of tournaments and the like.
確かに、説明が入るのは初見の視聴者にわかりやすくするためだよね。しかも視聴者の負担も減るし、実際の話の部分を全部やらずに反応に集中できるから効率的。声優の覚える量も減るし、アニメ作画も短縮できて、1話の尺も調整しやすい。1つの話に5〜10分かかるから、アニメだとほぼ半話分になるし、毎回それやってたらキャラ成長と並行して進めるのは難しい。でも大会の"ボス戦"的な場面ではフルでやってほしいな。普通くん+7
Heavy_Heave_Ho
Even though Shinta is gone (RIP), his influence is felt in every episode so far
Shintaがいなくなっちゃったけど(安らかに…)、その影響が毎話感じられるのエモすぎるッ!泣いた感情くん+23
Frontier246
Shinta Arakawa may be dead (in a rakugo sense) but his legacy lives on in Koguma's "hot look" and his daughter.
それな!赤羽晋太(落語的には死んでるけど笑)の影響、めっちゃ感じるよね。特に小熊の「熱い目」と娘に受け継がれてるのがやばくね!?ギャル+18
HolyDragSwd2500
Koguma helping Akane is the same way Shinta helped Koguma
確かに、心太が消えてもその影響は感じられるよね。小熊が茜を助けるのは、まさに心太が小熊を助けたのと同じだと思う。普通くん+10
Roboglenn
Akane, expecting to get a full blast of "No" like Agent Twilight asking for a vacation, yet like Agent Twilight was surprised by how easy they acquiesced to their request.
Boxer Akane gave me a good chuckle.
So Lucy Kimiko Akie Airi Shiori Rinne Yoshiho Chihoko (and so forth) Yagami from Servant x Service is basically the story of Jugemu in a nutshell.
この「あかね噺」の流れ、完全に『SPY×FAMILY』のロイドが休暇申請した時の構図だよな。ロイドも「無理だ」と覚悟してたのに拍子抜けしたけど、あかねも同じように「ダメ元」で言ったら意外とすんなり通った描写、制作陣の意図が読める。
ボクサーあかね、思わず笑ったわ。このギャップが効いてる。
あと『サーバント×サービス』のルーシー・キミコ・アキエ・アイリ・シオリ・リンネ・ヨシホ・チホコ(以下略)・ヤガミの名前の長さ、まさに「寿限無」を地で行く感じだよな。考察くん+23
Frontier246
Akane is getting a lot of mentorship from her fellow Arakawa schoolmates, though in a way it's just paying back the legacy her father left behind while she's trying to honor it.
I wouldn't mind Akane punching my lights out in that outfit, but she'll probably do it with her rakugo.
確かに、あかねは荒川の仲間たちからたくさん指導を受けてるね。でもそれって、彼女が父の遺産を尊重しようとしながら、その恩返しをしてるようなもんなんだろうな。
あの衣装であかねに殴り飛ばされてもいいけど、多分彼女は落語でやってくるんだろうな。普通くん+7
mekerpan
I loved how Koguma turned on a dime whern he saw the poster...
小グマのあの豹変っぷり草www ポスター見た瞬間の切り替えがガチで面白かったわ2ちゃん+8
AceSoldia
Marathoned episode 5 and 6..good stuff....I love her teacher lmao
5話と6話を一気見したよ…最高すぎるッ!先生好きすぎて笑ったわwww感情くん+20
SYZekrom
> is a different person onstage
"Oh he's gonna lock the fuck i- HE'S HOT AF??"
「舞台上だと別人になるんだな」
「おっ、こいつヤバい感じでロックし始めるか…って、めっちゃイケメンじゃん!?」普通くん+23
doomrider7
Rakugo has the power of turning everyone and their close friends and family into atteactive smokeshows.
「確かに!落語の力ヤバすぎるッ!舞台上で別人になるってこういうことかよ…って思ったらまさかのイケメン化でしょ!全員が急に輝き出すの無理すぎるッ!優勝!」感情くん+16
PerfectBeige
Reciting Jegumu 1,000 times each gave these rakugoka well defined jawlines.
せやな、Jegumuを千回唱えたらみんなエラがシャープになるんやろな草2ちゃん+14
Se7en_Sinner
So Issho's main motivation is to get young people into rakugo for its survival. I wonder if his expulsion of Akane's dad was a deliberate attempt to light a fire under her under the guise of revenge.
つまりIsshoの主な動機は、若者に落語を広めて存続させることなんだな。アカネの父を破門したのも、復讐という名目で彼女に火をつけるための意図的な試みだったのかもしれない。普通くん+20
Frontier246
Or maybe because he felt like Shinta's generation had failed? Even though his Arakawa Brothers like Koguma and Kyoji all seem legit as rakugo performers.
せやな、もしかしたら真打世代が失敗したって思ってるのかもな。荒川ブラザーズの小熊や京次みたいな連中はちゃんと落語家してるのに。2ちゃん+14
Charming-Loquat3702
I think that's more it. He wanted to create a vacuum for a new generation to grow into. I don't think Issho was planing for Shinta's daughter to become a rakugoka.
それに近いかもね。新しい世代が成長できる空白を作りたかったんだと思う。一翔が新太の娘を落語家にしようと考えてたとは思えないし。普通くん+11
ohoni
I can't imagine he expected from the start that Akane would become a serious rakugaoka. I mean she was a tiny kid, and he probably wasn't even aware of her yet.
まじそれな!最初っからあかねが本気の落語家になるなんて思ってなかったっしょ。だってちっちゃいガキだし、そもそも彼女のこと知らなかったかもじゃん?笑ギャル+14
mekerpan
Almost surely the case. And I doubt that he has any idea that Shinta's daughter is currently an aspiring rakugoka.
確かにその通りだと思う。しかも彼はシンタの娘が今落語家を目指してるって全然知らないんじゃないかな。普通くん+8
Worthyness
> I wonder if his expulsion of Akane's dad was a deliberate attempt to light a fire under her under the guise of revenge
All according to keikaku
なるほど…つまり一翔がアカネの父を破門したのは、復讐のふりをして彼女に火をつけるための計算だったってことか。全部計画通りってわけね…しんどいッ!この伏線エモすぎる!感情くん+5
SuperRajio
The way Akane reacted to Koguma's blunt insults sent me.
The last couple of episodes have felt better-paced with the manga. I guess the idea was to focus on the Karaku Cup, which makes sense. We're in for a solid arc.
この茜の熊谷のストレートな罵倒に対する反応、めっちゃ来たわ。
ここ数話は漫画に近いテンポ感になってきたな。おそらく制作陣は華楽杯に焦点を当てる意図があったんだろう。その判断は理にかなってる。これから本格的なアークが始まるという考察ができる。考察くん+16
KazuharaIlfan
Wonderful episode that make me realized this is a shonen with how Akane is given a new challenge to tackle that will broaden her horizon. Guess I have to bite the bullet here and spoil myself with the manga because Im too eager to know how she gonna distinctively perform the same story. The anime atleast gonna be a different viewing experience even after reading it.
すごく良い回だったね。あかねに新しい挑戦が与えられて視野が広がるって、まさに少年漫画って感じ。俺は待ちきれなくて漫画をネタバレしちゃいそうだけど、同じ話をどう独自に演じるのか気になりすぎる。アニメは読んだ後でもまた違う体験になりそうだな。普通くん+17
Ancient_Breakfast_48
原文
As a reader since day one I can say that at least I still enjoy watching the anime even knowing how the story goes. But people will obviously have their own opinions on these sorts of things. I am not at all secretly an absolutely gigantically massive super fan of this series so it really isn't a surprise that I still enjoy it... I was so unbelievably happy when it had the anime adaptation announced... and have been so happy seeing each episode every week...
【返信先】あかねに新たな挑戦が与えられて、これが少年漫画だと気付かされた素晴らしい回だった
【返信】
ワイは連載開始から読んでるけど、話知っててもアニメ楽しめてるわ。まあ人それぞれ意見あるやろうけどな。別にワイはこの作品の超絶ド級の大ファンってわけやないし、楽しめてるのも当然やろ…アニメ化発表された時はガチで嬉しすぎて涙出たわ…毎週の放送が楽しみで仕方ないンゴwww2ちゃん+12
ClemFire
Akane was a sports anime the whole time
確かに!あかねが新しい課題に挑むとこ、まじスポ根じゃん!笑 少年漫画って感じするよね〜ギャル+11
ParasaurolophusZ
Tournament arc? Tournament arc!
トーナメント編キター!草www2ちゃん+17
Shimmering-Sky
原文
- Yeah…
- Oh *boy*. Akane’s definitely going to gun for that chance, isn’t she?
- Akane “sore demo”!
- Oh, this should be fun. I can’t help but think of a certain monkey from Gintama when I hear that name, though.
- Another Akane “sore demo”!
- Ah…
- lol alright then.
- Wait, seriously?
- He really is super different on stage, wow.
- Well, it’s good that you got to see this before the tournament.
- That’s some *incredible* dedication to the job.
- そうだね…
- おっと…あかね、絶対そのチャンス狙いに行くよね?
- あかねの「それでも」キター!
- これは面白くなりそうだ。でもその名前聞くと、銀魂のあの猿を思い出しちゃうな。
- またあかねの「それでも」だ!
- ああ…
- 笑 なるほどね。
- え、マジで?
- 舞台上だと本当に別人なんだな、すごいわ。
- まあ、本番前にこれを見れたのは良かったね。
- 仕事へのこだわりが半端ないな。普通くん+15
Norix596
I've seen your comments for other eps - what does "sore demo" mean?
「それでも」って意味だよ〜!あかねがよく言うセリフで、「それでも俺は」って感じの決意表明的なやつ!めっちゃ熱いんだよね!ギャル+5
Shimmering-Sky
Oh, it's just a phrase I collect recordings of that stems from an inside joke with another Gundam Unicorn fan. It usually translates to "even so" or "but still", the main character of that series said it a bunch.
I started pointing them out as the joke, but then it turned into something I legitimately enjoy listening for lol.
ああ、それはただのフレーズ集めてるだけなんだよ。他のガンダムUCファンとの内輪ネタがきっかけでね。だいたい「それでも」って意味で、主人公がめっちゃ言ってたんだよね。
最初は冗談で指摘してたんだけど、気づいたら普通に聞き取るのが楽しくなっちゃったわ笑普通くん+9
ObvsThrowaway5120
原文
So not only does Akane have to perform a bit that everyone basically knows, she’s gotta do it twice? And in front of folks who have likely done the same bit before and maybe even better. That’s a tall order. But if she’s gonna get her revenge, she’s gonna need to pull it off. It’s a good thing she’s getting a little help from her seniors. I look forward to seeing how she elevates this “basic” story.
あかねは誰もが知っている古典ネタを演じるだけでなく、それを2回もやらなきゃいけないのか。しかも、同じネタをやってきたかもしれない先輩たちの前で、しかももしかしたらもっと上手い人たちもいる中で。これはかなりの難題だ。でも、復讐を果たすなら成功させるしかない。先輩たちから少し助けを得ているのは幸運だな。この「ベタな」話をどう昇華させるのか、楽しみだ。考察くん+17
ModieOfTheEast
原文
There is another part to this whole thing imo. In order for the same story (that everyone already knows) to work, she has to modify the second reading of the story. And modifying is something that the Rakugo purists do not like. After all, removing the description of the sea was what made them angry towards Akane's father in the first place. So her teacher is forcing Akane to do the same thing as her father as a lesson that even if you manage to make the audience laugh, there is another big challenge for you ahead. Which might even mean that Akane won't actually win because of it.
確かに。同じ話を二度やるってだけじゃなくて、二度目の読みを変えなきゃいけないってのがポイントだよね。しかもアレンジは落語の純粋主義者たちが嫌うところで、海の描写を省いただけであかねの父さんが怒られた過去がある。つまり師匠は、笑いが取れてもその先に大きな壁があるって教えるために、わざと父さんと同じことをさせてるんだと思う。もしかしたらそのせいであかねは勝てないかもな。普通くん+11
bslawjen
Pretty sure modifying stories is part of the job, you just can't be doing a bad job at it.
確かに!話をアレンジするのも仕事のうちだよね。でも下手くそにやっちゃダメってのがポイントすぎるッ!感情くん+14
Theduwang
Yeah, modifying is a part of a rakugoka's maturing, he will first learn the basics from his master, then learn small bits from other masters and this mixture will then solidify his style which in turn will be used when he teaches his disciples, completing the cycle.
確かに、アレンジは落語家の成長過程の一部だよね。まず師匠から基礎を学んで、その後他の師匠から少しずつ吸収して、その融合で自分のスタイルが固まっていく。そしてそれを弟子に教えることでサイクルが完成するってわけだ。普通くん+6
bozzabando
原文
Fell in love with this show from the first episode! It's pulling me into a world I knew nothing about and it's really exciting to learn about Rakugo and see how Akane will apply the lessons she learns to her performances.
I hope we'll get a scene with Akane and her father soon, it's like he disappeared, hah... There must be a lot of unresolved feelings there and I wonder how their relationship is now.
初回からガチでハマったわww
落語の世界なんて全然知らんかったけど、あかねが学んだことどう活かすのか見るのが楽しみすぎるンゴwww
父親とのシーン早く見たいンゴね…まさか消えたみたいになってるやん草
絶対色々モヤモヤあるやろうし、今どんな関係なんやろな2ちゃん+13
mekerpan
We've seen the father. He is just an ordinary salaryman -- earning enough to suopport his family,
If you like this check out Shōwa Genroku Rakugo Shinjū.
確かに父親は普通のサラリーマンで、家族を養うのに十分な収入があるって感じだね。
これが気に入ったなら『昭和元禄落語心中』もおすすめだよ。普通くん+7
italeteller
"Master, can I go smurf an amateur competition to speedrun my goal of meeting Issho?"
"Sure, but you gotta play with max handicap"
The Karaku Cup's a great arc, I am so looking forward to it
「師匠、アマチュア大会に潜って一勝に会う目標を急いで達成していいっすか?」
「いいけど、ハンデ最大でやれよな」
からくカップ編ガチで面白いンゴwww めっちゃ楽しみやわ2ちゃん+12
Frontier246
原文
Issho Arakawa may be the evil Demon Lord of Akane's story...but he's actually a surprisingly pleasant and fun interview! He just wants to see what the youth of today have to say about rakugo! But his fierce determination to keep the spirit of rakugo blazing is clear, and this is Akane's best chance to confront him if she wins the Karaku Cup!
Is it disrespectful for Akane to take her experience and present herself as an "amateur" in a competiton? Maybe, but Shiguma knows there's no stopping her when she's set her mind to something. She's in it to win it, but she'll have to play with the handicap of "Jugemu," the most basic of Rakugo stories.
To spruce up her skills she'll need to get some insight from the "Private School" of the Arakawa school, Koguma ani-san! He's curt and antisocial and wants nothing to do with mentoring Akane...but he still owes her father, so he can't help but want to support her revenge plan. So mentor her he will.
Did Anna Nagase get that Jugemu down in one take?
Akane's performance (and ability to do rakugo on demand in public areas) is great...but could she do with some more insight into the history of the story and it's original dark ending? The more informed you are, the more informed your performance!
Oh snap, Koguma is hot when he's performing! And even if starts off as more of a history lesson than a comedy act, it still has his audience utterly enthralled. THIS is the power of research and channeling it into a charismatic performance! He even manages to nail the punchline at the end!
Iwa-sensei is a great teacher! Helping Akane apply for the competition AND helping her with her research! Even if it means more extensive reading and researching than she ever wanted to do. But now her rakugo love has spurred a study bug for the sake of rakugo.
Akane-Kobanashi! Even a Rakugo lover like Akane doesn't know EVERYTHING about rakugo! But Koguma-sensei is there to teacher her everything she could possibly know!
荒川一生はあかねの物語における悪の魔王みたいな存在だけど、実際はめっちゃ話しやすい楽しいインタビュアーだよね!ただ若い連中が落語について何を言うか聞きたいだけなんだ。でも伝統芸能を燃やし続ける強い意志は明らかで、あかねがカラク杯で勝てば対峙する絶好のチャンスになる。
あかねが経験者なのに「アマチュア」として出るのは失礼か?確かにそうかも。でも志ぐまは彼女が決めたら止まらないって分かってる。勝ちにいくつもりだけど、落語の基本「寿限無」というハンデを背負わされる。
技術を磨くには荒川派の「私立学校」、小熊兄さんから学ぶしかない!無愛想で人嫌いで指導なんてしたくないけど…あかねの父に借りがあるから復讐計画を応援せずにはいられない。だから教えることになる。
長瀬アンナ、あの寿限無を一発で決めたのか?
あかねのパフォーマンスは素晴らしいけど、もっと話の歴史や本来の暗い結末について深く知る必要があるかも?知れば知るほど、演じ方も深くなる!
うわ、小熊が演じてるときイケメンすぎ!最初は笑い話というより歴史の授業みたいでも、観客を完全に魅了する。これが研究の力とカリスマ的なパフォーマンスに変える力だ!最後のオチもしっかり決めてる。
岩先生は名教師!大会申し込みの手伝いから普通くん+10
FarCritical
Koguma even sort of looks like if Wikipedia were a rakugoka lol
The analogy of performing Jugemu twice as throwing nothing but right straight punches was fascinating. Guess the path to confronting her dad's "assassin" is one full of drills on the fundamentals.
クマちゃん、ウィキペディアが落語家になったみたいな顔してて草
「寿限無」を2回やるのをストレート連打に例えるの、ガチで面白かったわ。親父の"刺客"と対決する道は基礎練の連続ってわけやな。2ちゃん+9
Muffin-zetta
hey isn’t that the story of Tikki Tikki Tembo?
それってTikki Tikki Temboの話じゃない?普通くん+9
Torque-A
Looks like Jugemu was the inspiration, yeah.
確かに!ジュゲムが元ネタっぽいよね、それな!感情くん+6
bushwarblerssong
原文
This episode touched on it somewhat, but there are a number of universities that have serious rakugo circles and have produced some top talent. Part of Akane’s audience for this competition will be people from these circles, who have experience performing Jugemu.
Tatekawa Shinnosuke, the inspiration for Akane’s master, went to Meiji. Sanyutei Koyuza, who does a lot of promo for Akane, also went to Meiji. Kyoji’s inspiration, Shunputei Ichinosuke (my personal fav Shoten member) graduated from Nihon University. Tatekawa Harenosuke also from Shoten went to Tokyo University of Agriculture. At least one person has graduated from Yale and there are Todai and many other top university grads. Most started their apprenticeship while they were in uni.
Akane’s VA is really great, but because she’s so good, the other VAs have felt a little lacking in comparison even though their characters are supposed to be more experienced. It might be asking too much, but I hope the VAs in the competition will be just as good as her.
今回のエピソードでも少し触れられていたけど、実際に落語研究会が盛んな大学はいくつかあって、そこからトップクラスの人材が何人も出ているんだよな。今回のあかねの競技会の観客にも、そうしたサークル出身者で「寿限無」を演じた経験がある人が含まれているという考察ができる。
あかねの師匠のモデルである立川志の輔は明治大学出身。『あかね噺』のプロモーションでも活躍している三遊亭小遊三も明治大学だ。狂詩のモデル・春風亭一之輔(個人的に一番好きな笑点メンバー)は日大卒。同じく笑点の立川晴の輔は東京農業大学出身。イェール大学卒業者も少なくとも一人いるし、東大や他の名門大学出身者も多い。そのほとんどが大学在学中に弟子入りを始めている。
あかね役の声優は本当に素晴らしいんだけど、あまりに上手すぎるせいで、他の声優が演じる経験豊富なキャラクターたちが逆に物足りなく感じてしまうのが気になる。贅沢な要望かもしれないが、競技会に出てくる声優陣も彼女と同じくらいの実力であってほしいと願うよ。考察くん+7
Charming-Loquat3702
Jugemu Jugemu Gokō-no Surikire Kaijarisuigyo-no Kuunerutokoro-ni Sumutokoro Yaburakōji-no Burakōji Paipopaipo Paipo-no Shūringan Shūringan-no Gūrindai Gūrindai-no Ponpokopī-no Ponpokonā-no Chōkyūmei-no Chōsuke
ジュゲムジュゲムってあの長い名前のやつだよね。あれをここで出すセンス好きだわ。普通くん+7
ShedPH93
While making people laugh on a well-know joke is a huge challenge, hearing a familiar story might make the audience lower their guard and be caught by surprise by something new - all the more if you present it twice. I believe Akane's approach will be on her first presentation tell the story while enriching it with trivia, and the second will be telling the original ending.
せやな、有名なネタで笑わせるのは超大変やけど、聞き覚えのある話なら客の警戒心が解けて新しい展開に驚きやすいってワケや。特に2回やるならな。ワイはあかねのアプローチ、1回目はトリビア盛り込んで話して、2回目で本来のオチをやるパターンやと思うンゴwww2ちゃん+5
Narmatonia
It's a good job they spoke to Koguma. Now that she knows there are 2 endings to Jugemu, she can perform the well-known version in the first round, and then surprise everyone with the darker version in the second round to keep it from getting too stale. I wouldn't be surprised if figuring that out was part of the 'test' Shiguma has set for her.
確かにコグマに話しかけて正解だったね。ジュゲムに2つの結末があるって知ったから、1回戦は有名なバージョンで演じて、2回戦でダークな方を見せて新鮮さを保てるってわけか。それがシグマの課した"試験"の一部だったとしても全然驚かないな。普通くん+5
Ivan105man
Is Jugemu going to die in this arc?
Jugemu死ぬんか?このアークで……マジでやばいやん2ちゃん+5
Guaymaster
The name is too long to fit in the remaining 18 episodes, it'll be a cliffhanger!
やばっ!名前長すぎて残り18話に収まんないじゃん!絶対続きが気になる終わり方くるでしょこれ笑ギャル+6
Nachtwandler_FS
Akane is talented, but being a book dumb sometimes does her disfavor (like in this case). I wonder what exacrly she will do with this advice?
And yeah, I knew the whole story about "Jugemu" and that original version of the story had a more tragic ending.
あかねは才能あるけど、時々本の知識不足が裏目に出るんだよな(今回みたいに)。このアドバイスを彼女がどう活かすのか、気になるところだ。
そういえば「寿限無」の原話はもっと悲劇的な結末だったんだよな。あの話を知ってると、今回の展開もまた違った考察ができるな。考察くん+5