+73
Frontier246
Honestly I feel like the past two seasons and Kazuya trying to make sense of his relationship with Chizuru have really set him back as a character compared to season 3.
Also I love how she just tells the family that "Chizuru Mizuhara" is a pseudonym and he still calls her Mizuhara like it's her actual name.
確かに、過去2シーズンと和也が千鶴との関係を整理しようとする過程は、シーズン3と比べて彼のキャラクター成長を後退させた感があるな。
あと、彼女が家族に「水原千鶴」が偽名だと明かした後も、和也が未だに「水原」と呼び続けるのは興味深い。これは彼の中で「水原千鶴」というレンタル彼女の仮面と本当の彼女の境界線が曖昧になっている証拠だと思われる。制作陣の意図として、呼称の変化が彼の成長のバロメーターになっているという考察ができる。考察くん+30
PrincipeDeiPoveri
原文
You think? Personally, I believe that he actively tried to advance their relationship, failing more because of others than because of himself (by this I don’t mean that he bears no blame), for example, he clearly told Ruka that he wanted to cut ties with her (Ruka ignored him and continued to chase), he tried to confess his love to Chizuru several times (Chizuru, like a coward, tried to prevent it from happening, which then led to the misunderstanding where Kazuya thought he was rejected and to the pool scene), finally, after being 'rejected' by Chizuru, Kazuya had decided to definitively end their relationship (pretending they had broken up) at the end of the vacation.
Regarding the fact that he calls her Chizuru Mizuhara, honestly, I don't see any problem, like if we consider that Kazuya is in really bad shape (self-esteem at the bottom + failed confession) and Chizuru has a poker face that is scary + actively does everything to make him think that their relationship is strictly professional (the devil kissed him twice in this episode and managed to find a good excuse to make him think it's just pretense), it makes sense to think that Kazuya has no familiarity, not even trying to call her by her first name.
Finally, the main point of my speech remains, Kazuya is playing in ultra-hard mode while all the other characters from romantic comedies are in easy mode.
確かにそうだね。和也はちゃんと関係を進めようとしてたと思う。瑠夏にはっきり断ろうとしたし、千尋に何度も告白しようとしたけど、千尋が逃げたのが原因で誤解が生まれた。千尋に振られたと思って別れようとしたのも納得できる。
水原って呼んでる件も問題ないと思う。和也の自己評価が低くて告白に失敗した状態で、千尋がプロ扱いしてくるし、キスしても「演技」って言い訳するから、名字呼びになるのは当然だよ。
結局、和也は超ハードモードで戦ってるのに、他のラブコメ主人公はイージーモードなんだよな。普通くん+21
Frontier246
原文
I mean, I think he deserves some of the blame just because of how much he stammers and struggles to speak to Chizuru or act on his feelings half the time.
Some of it is genuine insecurity, but other times it just feels like he just can't act rationally or sensibly when it comes to her.
I also just don't think it's good for their relationship that he still thinks of her under a fake name after all the time they've spent together.
まあ、和也にも非があるのは確かだな。千鶴と話すたびにどもったり、感情を行動に移せなかったりするのは問題だ。
半分は本当に自信がないんだろうが、それにしても彼女のことになると冷静さを欠く場面が多い。
それに、あれだけ一緒に過ごしたのにまだ彼女を偽名で呼んでるってのは、関係的には良くないだろうな。ドライおじ+13
BosuW
Yeah I feel the blame of the current situation actually lies mostly on Chizuru. Kazuya had already geared up to confess, and she fucking knew it. If she hadn't ran on him, all of this could have been avoided.
確かに。今の状況の責任はほとんど千鶴にあると思う。和也はもう告白する覚悟決めてたし、千鶴もそれに気づいてたはずなんだよな。彼女が逃げなければ、こんなことにならなかったのに。普通くん+27
LegendRazgriz
原文
Once you get deep enough into the sunk cost fallacy that is this series, you start to realize that, if anyone, Chizuru is the pathetic one here and we just give her a pass because she plays it cool and is a beauty. In 9/10 scenes we get from inside her head and through her eyes, she's lying to herself through her teeth and intentionally playing dumb just to not admit she likes the guy.
At some point, you just cannot blame Kazuya anymore. He's gone past what is reasonable for someone to expect out of a person. Chizuru constantly gives him a Christmas tree's worth of mixed signals and is insanely dishonest with herself to a degree you can't make sense of her actions at all. It's not just because Kazuya starts thinking with his lower body when in her presence, no one can get a read on her. The fact that Ruka is just as exasperated as Kazuya if not even moreso than he is after this latest stunt is damning. I never thought Kazuya was the greatest guy, but at some point it's unreasonable to say he's the one dragging the series down.
ふむ…我が魂に刻まれたこのシリーズの深淵を覗き込むほど、ある真理が浮かび上がるのだ。真に哀れなるは、水原千鶴その人。彼女は冷徹なる美貌で全てを偽り、自らの心に牙を剥きながら、ただ「好き」と認めることを拒む愚か者に過ぎぬ。
もはや木ノ下和也を責めることなど不可能。彼は人の限界を超えた試練に立ち向かっているのだ。千鶴はクリスマスツリー如き矛盾した信号を放ち、己にすら欺瞞を重ねる。更科瑠夏でさえ、その最新の策略に彼以上に苛立っている事実が全てを物語る。我は和也を聖人とは思わぬが、彼をシリーズの癌と断ずるのは最早不条理よ。中二病+20
oneevilchicken
Also look at everyone around him.
Mami is Mami.
His grandmas has honestly only ever put him down.
His parents barely have anything to do with him half the time.
Kibe punched him for the smallest of reasons.
Everyone around him is honestly kinda shit. He’s honestly done well given how loaded everything is against him.
せやな。周り見てみ？麻美は麻美やし、ばあちゃんはマジでディスりまくり、親もほったらかし、木部は些細なことで殴るし。
周りがクソすぎるンゴwww こんな環境でよくやってるわ。ワイは和也に感情移入するわ。2ちゃん+16
JonathanAltd
The only 2 not batshit insane persons are the 2 other girls we havent see in 2 seasons.
His grandma is straight up evil
Mami feels like a stand-in for me because I want this to story to end « I’ve had enough of your non sense! You still call this work? Are you out of your mind? »
確かに周り見てもヤバい人ばかりだよね。2シーズン出てない残りの2人の女の子だけがまともな気がする。祖母は完全に悪役だし、麻美は「いい加減にしろよ！これが仕事だって？正気か？」って物語終わらせてほしい俺の代弁者みたいな感じ。普通くん+14
SlippyFist_68
It's because he has the most ridiculous/exaggerated facial expressions and body language of any MC of all time, it's like the author doesn't even want us to cheer for him.
せやな、ワイも和也は嫌いになれへんわ。でもあの顔芸と動きはガチで草生えるわ。作者が応援させたくないんちゃうかってレベルやんwww2ちゃん+13
TempestoLord
And the same inner thoughts and monologues over and over again…the anime would be half as long if he didn’t overthink every single thing but Reiji found the infinite money glitch and will milk this for many more years. Like there is enough material for 5 more seasons lmao.
確かに。同じ内面の独白を繰り返すのも問題だよな。全てのことに過剰に考え込まなければ、アニメの尺は半分で済んだはず。でも、レイジは無限の金策を見つけて、これを何年も搾取し続けるんだろうな。まるで、あと5シーズン分のネタがあるみたいだしな（笑）。考察くん+13
NathaKevin0
i REALLY hope they cut some stupid arcs or somethinh bc i dont really see how 5 more seasons of this would be good... because if they dont do that then we will have to wait at least 8 more years for 5 more seasons.
tbh if they dont skip some stuff i fear that the anime might get discontinued at some point
【返信】
マジでクソみたいな原作アークはバッサリ切ってほしいンゴ……このペースで5期もやる意味あるんか？って思うわ
もしカットしないならあと8年は待つ羽目になるやん
正直飛ばさなかったら途中で打ち切りになる未来しか見えへん2ちゃん+5
omimon
Its sad that the two girls he's was/is interested in (Mami and Chizuru) torment him to this degree.
Meanwhile Ruka and Sumi would have ended the series in the first season if they were the main heroine.
確かに。和也が興味持ってる2人（麻美と千鶴）にここまで振り回されるのは見てて辛いな。
一方で瑠夏と墨がヒロインだったら初回で話終わってたってのは納得だわ。普通くん+6
Zeta42
Well, Reiji has admitted this is intentional, that he doesn't like "convenient" romcom heroines because that's unrealistic.
確かにw 作者もわざとそう書いてるって言ってたしな。リアルな人間関係を描こうとしてるんだろうな笑wwwおじ+8
actionfirst1
"Do it again, I wasn't looking" -Patrick Star
「もう一回やって、ワイ見てなかったわ」 by パトリック・スター2ちゃん+38
Frontier246
You can tell Chizuru is an actress because she really committed to those kisses like she was on film.
確かに！千鶴のキスシーン、女優魂感じたわ。本気で演じてるのが伝わってきて最高だった！感情くん+19
actionfirst1
Needed a second take
確かに、本番みたいなキスシーンだったからな。もう一度撮り直しが必要なくらい自然だったわ。普通くん+12
BosuW
Mami should've locked in to Stanley Kubrick mode and asked them to do it a hundred times
確かに！麻美、スタンリー・キューブリックばりに「もう100回撮り直し！」ってやればよかったのに笑ギャル+7
Nunbrot
Crazy how they don't let you out of this situation for three whole episodes.
3話もこの状況から抜け出せないって、マジでクレイジーだよな。普通くん+37
Nesp2
I really felt Kazuya when he said: "Godamn!" while sitting on that toilet.
Because that exact reaction is how I feel about this show.
Can't wait for next week tho.
確かにw 和也がトイレで「ちくしょう！」って叫んだシーン、めっちゃ共感したわ笑
このアニマ見てると正にそんな気分になるよなw
でも来週も楽しみだわwwwwwwおじ+16
Frontier246
They've been making a public spectacle of themselves for three episodes and the staff only really intervened after the second makeout session. Can't upset the other hotel guests' delicate Japanese sensibilities lol.
確かに、3話もあれを引っ張るのはすごいよな。2回目のキスの後までスタッフが介入しなかったのも笑える。他の宿泊客の繊細な日本人気質を壊せないってかｗ普通くん+10
NationalStrategy
Did we really need Kazuya popping a boner in of everyone during the kiss?
確かに和也がみんなの前で勃起するシーン、必要だったか？無理すぎるッ！感情くん+33
Ok-Cod5254
After the pool boner scene, this is lightwork. lol
「同意でござる。プールの一件と比べれば、今回のそれは軽いものよ。ふっ」武士+27
NationalStrategy
I know, but I don’t want to see more of it
確かに、あのプールのシーンよりはマシだけど、もうああいうのは見たくないな。普通くん+13
kicksFR
It was a valid boner ngl
確かに、あのタイミングでの勃起には意味があると申す。某も同意見でござる。武士+9
blakeavon
How are you surprised? Thats always been the tone of the show.
え？今さら驚くの？この作品はずっとこんなノリじゃん。むしろそれ込みで笑えるんだよな。感情くん+8
GondolaMedia
I can't believe we missed this absolutely banger of a Mami reaction for seasonal comment face nominations.
マミのリアクションがこんなに神ってたのに、シーズンコメント顔のノミネートで見逃してたなんて信じられないわ。普通くん+38
Frontier246
Mami has the best "oh you @#%\^ing ***bitch***." face
マジでそれな！麻美の「あんたマジかよこのビッチが」って顔、神すぎじゃん笑ギャル+22
LegendRazgriz
Aoi Yuuki tuning out of Mami and straight into Tanya did things to me that I was not prepared.
麻美からターニャに切り替わる悠木碧の演技、俺の心の準備ができてなかったわ。普通くん+7
Purest_Prodigy
She is absolutely seething
マジでこの麻美の反応ヤバすぎるッ！怒りで爆発しそうな顔エグいわ…優勝感情くん+6
cleaulem
Mami's reactions today were quite something. Aoi Yuuki could really shine voicing Mami losing her shit. And Chizuru calling her out being an obsessive creep over Kazuya also was pretty amazing.
今日の麻美のリアクションはすごかったな。麻美がキレるシーンで悠木碧がめっちゃ輝いてた。千鶴が「和也にストーカーみたいに執着してる」って言い返すのもかなり良かった。普通くん+31
JumpOrganic3798
Great voice roles for both Chizuru and Mami.
まじでそれ！千鶴も麻美も声優の演技やばすぎじゃん？特に麻美がキレるシーン、雨宮天じゃなくて悠木碧がやってる感じすごく出てたよね笑ギャル+12
kicksFR
The voice acting in this show is just top notch
確かに、この作品の声優陣は本当に豪華だよね。特に今日の麻美の反応はすごかった。雨宮天の千鶴も良いし、声優の演技が作品を引き立ててると思う。普通くん+11
TootBoxSniffer
Inserts "I'm tired boss" meme.
I can't keep doing this.
「もう疲れたよ社長…」ってミーム貼りたい気分や
これ以上は無理やわ…ガチで2ちゃん+31
Jorojr
Sunk cost fallacy is a hell of a drug.
確かにそれな…「もう戻れない」って思い込むの、マジで沼すぎるッ！感情くん+19
kicksFR
Sure bro, see you next week
それな、また来週な普通くん+11
Atario
\> Bitches and moans
\> Won't just fuck off
Sure, fam
「もう疲れたよ…」ってやつね笑
愚痴ってるくせに
結局ずるずる離れないんだよね〜
わかるわ〜ギャル+9
next_door_nicotine
At least according to the preview we'll be back from Spa Resort Hawaiians finally. And looks like Kazuya has become a NEET.
On the brightside, a Mini appearance!
God, I miss Sumi 😭
プレビュー見た感じ、ついにハワイアンズ編終わって日常戻ってくるっぽいな。しかも和也がニート化してて草生えるわ。
明るい話題としては、ミニちゃん登場やん！
つか墨ちゃん恋しすぎて泣けるンゴ😭2ちゃん+19
magnumcyclonex
Mini is a welcome back addition to this season. We have been so missing her appearance and unique point of view.
But for all time, best girl will always be Sumi!
ミニの復帰は今シーズンに嬉しい追加だね。彼女の登場と独特な視点がすごく恋しかったよ。
でも、永遠にベストガールは墨だよ！普通くん+15
next_door_nicotine
I just hope she is safe, wherever she is.
同意。ミニが戻ってきてくれて嬉しすぎるッ！彼女の視点が本当に恋しかった。でもどこにいても無事でいてほしい…それだけが心配すぎる。感情くん+8
magnumcyclonex
She's busy with her own spinoff adventures! (Yes there's a real spinoff manga featuring Sumi, in case you didn't already know)
え、マジで！？墨ちゃんのスピンオフ漫画あるんだ！知らんかったわ〜笑
てかスピンオフで忙しいなら安心じゃん！どこにいても無事そうでよかった〜💖ギャル+12
Riverflowsuphillz
Can someone explain mami like what the point of her being the antagonist like chizaru flip flopping is worse than anything mami can do
確かに麻美の悪役っぷりは分かりにくいけど、千鶴のフラフラ行動のがよっぽどムカつくわ…どっちつかずすぎて無理感情くん+16
candry_shop
The point of Mami being the antagonist is to make you forget the Chizuru sucks
確かに、麻美が悪役として機能することで千鶴のダメな部分を忘れさせられるってのは分かる。普通くん+29
BosuW
Not doing a very good job of that
せやな、麻美が悪役やってる意味あんまないわwww
千鶴のクソっぷり全然霞まへんやん草2ちゃん+11
Ok-Cod5254
It pushed them to kiss to give fans still keeping up with the series something to see as a "reward".
Some really thought this could be the turning point from the manga to change status quo, so it was bait.
But then Chizuru is still gonna be a hindrance to progress the plot with the walls she maintains that are hard to chip away.
確かに麻美の存在は視聴者への「ご褒美」としてあのキスシーンを演出するための布石だったんだよね。
「これで漫画の流れが変わるかも！」って期待させといて、結局はただの釣りだったし。
でも千鶴のあの頑なな壁はまだまだ崩せそうにないから、また進展を妨げるんだろうな。普通くん+15
hanzperson
To make drama and make the story actually interesting every once in a while cause God knows everyone would get bored of seeing Chizuru flip flopping for the 100th time in a row
草マジでそれな
麻美はただのドラマ製造機やろ
千鶴のフラフラっぷりに飽き飽きしてるとこにブチ込んでくるスパイス要員って感じやん2ちゃん+7
BosuW
Can't believe Chizuru hit Mami with the whataboutism and it actually worked smh
千鶴が麻美に「お前だってそうじゃん」って論法で返してそれが通じたの笑うわ普通くん+6
NeutralGeneric
Yeah didn’t expect her to fold so easily.
せやな、まさか麻美がこんなあっさり折れるとは思わんかったわwww2ちゃん+8
NeutralGeneric
原文
My interpretation: Mami doesn’t actually care about any of that. She’s just saying things to try to hurt and manipulate Chizuru. Her origin story episode showed that she just wants to ruin love for other people because it was ruined for her. So when Chizuru points out she’s obsessed with Kazuya in particular it stops her in her tracks because she has to consider if she actually likes him. It doesn’t really matter if it addresses her accusations of Chizuru because she never really cared about that in the first place and Chizuru cut to the heart of the matter.
確かに。麻美は別にそんなこと気にしてないんだよね。ただ千鶴を傷つけて操ろうとしてるだけ。過去回でわかったけど、自分が恋愛ダメになったから他人の恋愛も壊したいだけなんだ。だから千鶴に「和也に執着してる」って指摘された時、自分が本当に彼のこと好きなのか考えざるを得なくなったんだと思う。千鶴への非難にちゃんと答えてるかは関係なくて、核心を突かれた感じだね。普通くん+7
ObvsThrowaway5120
原文
Honestly, that kiss might have done more harm than good in the long run. Like ok, Mami’s off their case and Chizuru telling her she’s gotta check her weird ass Kazuya obsession was kinda great but now what? Lying to cover a lie isn’t really a long term solution. And that kiss has done a real number on Kazuya. Bro’s spinning out thinking about whether it meant anything or not. If Chizuru likes him, she should just step up and tell him. Worrying because he’s a client seems pointless at this point. They’ve crossed the line beyond what’s even professional.
Perhaps the greatest mystery in this show is how a dude like Kazuya has all this girls obsessing about him to varying degrees. Like… do they see something we as the audience don’t?? If you looked up pathetic simp in the dictionary, bro’s face would be right there lol.
正直なところ、あのキスは長期的に見れば毒にしかならなかったんじゃないかという考察ができる。麻美が一旦引き下がって、千鶴が「和也への執着おかしいよ」って言ったのは良かったけど、その後の展開がね…嘘で嘘を塗り重ねるのは長期的な解決策にはならない。そしてあのキスが和也に与えた影響は深刻だ。彼は「あれに意味はあったのか」ってグルグル考え込んでる。もし千鶴が和也のことを好きなら、もうはっきり伝えるべきだ。「彼がクライアントだから」って心配するのも、もはや意味がない。彼らはとっくにプロとしての線を越えてる。
この作品最大の謎は、和也みたいな奴にどうしてここまで複数の女が執着するのかって点だよな。視聴者には見えない何かがあるってことか？「哀れなシンパ」の項目で辞書を引けば、真っ先にこいつの顔が載ってそうだわ（笑）考察くん+18
Frontier246
They act like this is such a pivotal, seismic, arc but other than Kazuya and Chizuru finding out Mami is a two-faced jerk nothing has actually changed since the beginning of season 4.
We've sat through 17 episodes of basically *no plot progression* even after the truth got exposed.
確かに。みんなこのキスが大事なターニングポイントみたいに言ってるけど、第4期序盤から麻美が裏表あるやつってバレた以外、状況は全然変わってないよね。
17話も観てきたのに真実が明らかになった後も*ストーリーが進んでない*っていうのがなあ。普通くん+22
Kadmos1
17 anime epi. of little to no progression is minute compared to hundrds of manga chapters doing the same thing.
確かに！アニメ17話で進展ほぼゼロとか言うけど、漫画は何百話も同じようなもんだろッ！進捗ダメすぎて笑うわ。感情くん+10
Allansfirebird
Those threads in r/manga were something to behold during the *year* we were stuck watching the "Paradise Arc" unfold originally.
ああ、あの頃のr/mangaのスレッドはすごかったな。パラダイス編が続いてた1年間は特にね。普通くん+5
hanzperson
Remember when we got that pretentious narration near the beginning of this arc of Kazuya saying something big that would change his life was about to happen too lol
「あの大げさなナレーション思い出したわw 和也が『人生変わる大きな出来事が起きる』とか言ってたやつ。結局大したことなくて草」感情くん+6
Mr__Cuddles_
The problem is that we hear every fucking thought going through his pathetic head, while the girls doesn't. That is why they are throwing themselves at him.
確かにそうだな。問題は和也のクソみたいな思考を全部見せられてるだけで、女の子たちはそれが見えてないってことだよな。だからあいつらが彼に迫ってくるんだと思う。普通くん+11
Sarellion
原文
Chizuru likes the money, Ruka has that odd heart condition and because it jumped once, he is her hero, Mami is just crazy. Okay tbf Chizuru seems to have feelings but apparently she is supposed to be torn between being a professional in her (crappy part time) job and having feelings for the dude who did a lot for her.
In their own ways all of these girls are pretty pathetic. They are all pretty but the characters of the girls would eb a big turn off in a longer relationship.
確かに、そのキスが長期的には逆効果になるという考察は興味深い。それぞれのキャラクターを分析してみると、千鶴は金銭的動機とプロ意識の狭間で葛藤しているように見える。瑠夏の心臓病のエピソードは、和也を「運命の人」と錯覚させる伏線として機能している可能性が高い。麻美に関しては、彼女の行動原理が嫉妬や支配欲から来ていることは明白だ。
これらのヒロインたちは、それぞれ独自の「欠陥」を抱えていると言える。外見は魅力的だが、長期的な関係を築くには性格的な障壁が多いというのは、制作側が意図的に描いているテーマかもしれない。特に千鶴の「プロと感情の板挟み」という構図は、レンタル彼女という職業の本質的な矛盾を象徴している。考察くん+8
JumpOrganic3798
Chizuru is conflicted between her personal relationship with Kazuya and rental relationship with Kazuya simultaneously.
千鶴は和也とのプライベートな関係とレンタル彼女としての関係の間で板挟みになってるんだよね。普通くん+5
magnumcyclonex
Well, the one thing I will say is that he did sort of help Sumi gain confidence in herself. Sumi in this universe, will always be the best girl. So similarly to Ruka, when someone does something nice and impressionable, it can have a lasting effect. I don't remember/know how/why Mami liked Kazuya in the first place though.
確かに、和也が墨の自信をつける手助けをしたのは間違いない。この世界観において墨は常に最高のヒロインだと言える。瑠夏の場合と同様に、誰かが印象的な親切を行うと、それが長期的な影響を与えるという考察が成り立つ。ただ、麻美が最初に和也を好きになった経緯については、正直よく覚えていないし、理解し難い部分だな。考察くん+6
hanzperson
原文
Yea, if they actually told the family they broke up after this it'd be fine, but we all know that's not happening. This is only gonna hurt more in the long run.
And to answer your second question, it's cause it's a self insert and nothing more. Even your usual romcom protags have more going for them than Kazuya. Somehow every other dude in this universe is just as bad if not worse than he is if we base it off the commentary of the mob characters every time they see one of the girls.
せやな、このまま「別れた」って家族に言えば丸く収まるんやけどな…でもそうならんの分かってるやん。長い目で見たら傷口広げるだけやろな。
んで2つ目の質問の答えやけど、要は自己投影用のキャラってだけやで。普通のラブコメ主人公でもカズヤよりマシな要素はあるわ。つーかこの世界の男ども、モブの台詞から察するにカズヤ以下か同レベルしかおらんやんwww2ちゃん+8
BosuW
原文
Kazuya was actually pretty cool in the movie Arc, I can see a girl falling for that easily.
Ruka is delulu and needs no further explanation
Mami is not really "purely" in love with him, she has insecurity and jealousy issues. Basically it's not about him it's about her.
Mini... I'm pretty sure she's gay? And more of a wingwoman in any case.
Sumi may as well not exist
So all in all, ironically Kazuya's situation regarding hot girls being into him compared to the average romcom clone protagonist is actually not too crazy.
和也の映画編での活躍は確かにカッコよかったな。あれなら女の子が惹かれるのも理解できる。
瑠夏は完全に妄想一直線、説明不要だな。
麻美は「純粋に」彼を愛してるわけじゃなくて、不安と嫉妬の問題を抱えてるんだと思う。つまり彼の話じゃなくて彼女自身の問題って考察ができる。
ミニ…多分レズビアンだよな？いずれにせよ完全に恋愛のサポート役だ。
墨は存在すら消えてる。
総合すると、皮肉なことに和也が美人に好かれてる状況は、平均的なラブコメ主人公と比べるとそこまで非現実的じゃないという結論に至る。考察くん+7
ObvsThrowaway5120
Sumi is best girl because there’s never any drama there. She’s just trying to overcome her shyness. I can respect that.
確かに！墨は最高すぎる。ドラマとか一切ないし、ただ自分の恥ずかしがり屋を克服しようとしてるだけってのがエモすぎる。その姿勢にリスペクトだわ！感情くん+6
Sarellion
原文
Maybe I misremember but wasn't it pretty invasive concerning her private life? Ruka quit when she wanted a real boyfriend. But I probably got it wrong. Ruka did it only to get her heart going faster or so. Also there was a lot of agency this, agency that.
But I noticed something. Their new lie is "it was rental but we are now dating for real." Not sure how well thought out this lie is, but no one mentioned that this wouldn't be permitted from the agency, including Mami.
So, well, if they stopped the renting, Ruka and Mami couldn't blackmail them and she could date him, if she wanted? I think I get why many long time manga readers loathe her.
確かに、プライベートに踏み込みすぎだよね。瑠夏はちゃんとリアルな彼氏が欲しくて辞めたんだし。心臓ドキドキさせるためだけだったのかもだけど。
で、気づいたんだけど、新しい嘘が「元レンタルだけど今は本当に付き合ってる」ってやつ。これってよく考えられてるのか？麻美も含めて誰も「代理店が許さない」って言わなかったんだよな。
つまり、レンタルやめれば瑠夏も麻美も脅せなくなるし、千鶴が本気なら和也と付き合えるってこと？長年読んでるファンが瑠夏を嫌う理由がなんとなくわかった気がする。普通くん+5
hanzperson
It’s a self insert character for certain types of people, but I sure as hell don’t see myself in Kazuya. Reiji definitely does though
確かに和也は特定の層向けの自己投影キャラだと思うけど、俺は自分を重ねられないな。でもレイジ（作者）は絶対投影してるよね普通くん+6
NationalStrategy
With how obsessed Mami is with this, it goes without saying that she is in desperate need of therapy
まじで麻美の執着やばすぎじゃん！？絶対カウンセリング必要だって笑ギャル+18
JumpOrganic3798
The obsession was pointed out by Chizuru. Both Chizuru and Mami have their own faults. Chizuru did ask Mami to consider and think what she's doing towards Kazuya, Mami has her own problems to deal with.
確かに千鶴も麻美の問題を指摘してたね。どっちにも欠点はあるけど、麻美は自分の問題と向き合う必要がありそう。普通くん+12
BBryant3rd
I loved how Mami looked like her head was going to explode from the kiss.
マミがあのキス見て頭爆発しそうな顔してるの最高すぎるッ！笑感情くん+13
Frontier246
原文
We now return to Chizuru giving Kazuya a kiss worthy of an Academy Award! And she's finally calm and composed enough to put on her best acting performance and maintain this new lie while coming clean: she's not just a rental girlfriend, she's a LEGITIMATE girlfriend.
Mami is fuming and grasping at straws. They need to kiss again!!! And Chizuru is willing to even kiss Kazuya a second time to sell it. And yes, the shot of Kazuya popping a boner was TOTALLY necessary to the plot!
Oh NOW they care about making themselves a public spectacle after 3 episodes. But I guess it's finally time to put on some actual clothes and tell Granny Nagomi 97% of the truth...while still lying to her. But she buys it, and in true Granny Nagomi fashion basically accepts Chizuru and hits Kazuya for making this into the mess it was. Nothing's really changed.
It's funny how Kuri and Ruka both confront Kazuya/Chizuru at the same time. Ruka does NOT care about getting NTR'd by Chizuru (who can't really offer up a good explanation). Though it's MAMI who really confronts Chizuru and lays in on her for all this. I wish Mami actually HAD called and turned Chizuru in to her agency, though Chizuru finally throws it in her face how she's been obsessing over Kazuya this whole time. Though Chizuru saying she'd wait until Mami sorted out her feelings...she'll put anything off, won't she?
Kazuya being a horny idiotic simp who legitimately can't do or say anything, so obviously he can't properly figure out Chizuru's feelings. She herself is acting as cool and unbothered as ever, rationalizing the kiss as just being the same as that time she gave him CPR. Nothing's changed, not even the plan for them to "break up" at some point and use this as an excuse for why. Fat chance that'll actually happen though.
Though for as unbothered as Chizuru acts, deep down it seems like she's still working through her feelings as she grapples with falling for Kazuya while thinking she can't be falling for a client...all the while Granny Sayuri is laughing in Heaven at how clearly in love she is.
千鶴がアカデミー賞級のキスを和也にしてるシーンに戻ってきたな！そしてついに冷静になって最高の演技で新しい嘘を貫きつつ、ただのレンタル彼女じゃなくて「本物の彼女」って認める流れ。
麻美は怒り狂って藁にもすがる感じだな。またキスしろって！千鶴は2回目もやってでもごまかす覚悟あるし。そうそう、和也が勃起してるカット、マジでプロットに必要だったんだよな！
3話も経って今さら公衆の面前でバレるの気にし始めたのかよ。でもついに服着て、なごみばあちゃんに97％の真実を話すか…それでも嘘はつくけど。でも信じてくれて、ばあちゃんらしく千鶴を受け入れて和也をぶって終わり。何も変わってない。
栗林と瑠夏が同時に和也/千鶴に問い詰めるの面白いな。瑠夏は千鶴にNTRられても気にしてない（千鶴はまともな説明できないし）。でも本当に問い詰めるのは麻美で、全部ぶちまける。麻美が実際に千鶴を事務所に通報してほしかったけど、千鶴が「ずっと和也に執着してたのはお前だろ」って言い返すのは良かった。でも「麻美が気持ちを整理するまで待つ」って…また先延ばしにしてるよな？
和也はただのムラムラしたバカで何も言えず行動できず、千鶴の気持ちを全然理解できない。千鶴は相変わ普通くん+11
NationalStrategy
Don’t you just love that Kazuya and Chizuru practically got away with lying to his friends and family, and continues to lie to them?
やばくね！？和也と千鶴、友達とか家族に嘘つきまくってるのに、結局バレずにそのまま続けてるって最高じゃん笑ギャル+15
Frontier246
It doesn't feel like anything's really been resolved or they've actually learned anything.
確かに…和也と千鶴、結局何も解決してなくない？嘘つき続けてるし、成長とか学びも感じられないのがモヤモヤするッ！感情くん+12
BosuW
Battle Shounen thinks it has strong plot armor
They got nothing on this
確かに。バトル漫画の主人公よりこっちの方がよっぽどご都合主義だよね。普通くん+8
Sarellion
It was quite funny to hear that they came clean about almost all of it except that they started dating a week before her grandma passed. So they are still lying about their current relationship status and the one thing that was most important to grandma? so the core issues? I am not sure what they actually came clean about.
確かに、彼らが「ほとんど全てを打ち明けた」と言いながら、実は「祖母が亡くなる1週間前から付き合い始めた」という部分だけは隠しているのは興味深い。つまり、現在の関係性と、祖母にとって最も重要だった事実——いわば核心部分——はまだ嘘を続けていることになる。彼らが実際に何を打ち明けたのか、疑問が残るな。考察くん+5
Zeta42
原文
This is what I hate the most about this arc, even more than the cuck genjutsu. Hell, it ruined the entire story for me. This incident could've been a turning point where MC owns up to his mistakes and takes steps to become a better person, but the exact opposite happens. He can't do anything right: not stop lying to his friends and family, not get the girl he likes, not even see his ex for what she really is.
確かにそれな。この展開が一番嫌だわ。嘘を認めて成長するチャンスだったのに、まったく逆のことやってるし。友達にも家族にも嘘つき続けて、好きな子も振り向かせられなくて、元カノの本性にも気づけないって、マジで何もできてないじゃん。普通くん+5
NationalStrategy
They should definitely still be mad at them. Even with the cover up lie, the glaring issue of those two lying to them is that they kept up the lie for over a year
確かに怒って当然だよなッ！カバーするための嘘だったとしても、あの2人が1年以上も嘘をつき続けた問題はデカすぎるッ！無理、許せる気がしない感情くん+5
ChillexLovesPringles
Seeing Mami lose her shit was satisfying and funny ngl especially since she was the one who told Chizuru and Kazuya to kiss the previous episode and again in this one
確かに、前のエピソードで千鶴と和也にキスしろって言ってた麻美が、今回も同じこと言いながら自分がキレてるのは笑えたしスッキリしたわ普通くん+12
nakorurukami
Chizuru is a liar, a cheat and a manipulator, but most of the community thinks she's the perfect girlfriend.
千鶴は嘘つきで騙すし操るやん。なのにコミュニティの大半は「完璧な彼女」とか言ってるの草生えるわwww2ちゃん+10
Kadmos1
However, isn't Mami a worse manipulator?
いやいや、麻美のほうがまじでやばいじゃん！？笑ギャル+6
Ok-Cod5254
Mami is the one obviously framed as the "villain" while Chizuru is put on a pedestal. So that's the difference.
確かに麻美は明らかに「悪役」扱いされてて、千鶴は神格化されてるもんな。それが違いすぎるッ！感情くん+6
NardTheGamer
Bro… how many mental breakdowns from Kazuya are they going to add to one episode.. like damn. We get it. He kissed Chizuru. Let’s move on. Wasting precious time of the episode on that goofy sh*t.
Mami-Chan is super annoying at this point. I’m glad Chizuru told her about herself.
マジで和也のメンタル崩壊シーン多すぎじゃね…1話に何回入れるんだよ。わかったわかった、千鶴とキスしたって。もういいから先に進もうぜ。あのバカみたいなシーンで時間無駄にしすぎ。
麻美ちゃんはもうマジでウザすぎ。千鶴が麻美に言い返したのは良かったわ。普通くん+11
JumpOrganic3798
原文
Glad Chizuru calls Mami out too, that was the right time for Chizuru to speak up to Mami although Ruka tries to stop Chizuru and Mami from fighting, Chizuru is aware of Mami's obsession with Kazuya and it's clear that Kazuya had moved on from Mami. Chizuru and Mami have different problems. Chizuru is struggling on personal and rental relationships, especially that she has no more family members, she only has Kazuya, Ruka, Kibe, Kuri and Kazuya's family to support her, although she's at fault too for the lies along with Kazuya. Mami is stuck in her family condition, also it wasn't right for her to take out on couples despite of genuine ones.
せやな、千鶴が麻美に言い返したのはガチで良かったわ。瑠夏が止めに入ったけど、千鶴は麻美の和也への執着見抜いてたし、和也ももう麻美のこと引きずってないのがハッキリしたしな。
千鶴と麻美は抱えてる問題が全然違うわ。
- 千鶴：個人とレンタルの関係で悩んでて、家族ももういない。和也・瑠夏・木部・栗林・和也の家族だけが支えや。嘘つきなのは和也と同罪やけどな。
- 麻美：自分の家庭環境に囚われてる。本物のカップルに八つ当たりするのはアカンやろ。2ちゃん+5
Kadmos1
Isn't Chizuru's job of a rental girlfriend essentially prostitution minus the sex work?
確かにそういう見方もできるけど、千鶴の場合はちゃんと線引きしてるし、感情も絡んでるから単純にそうとは言い切れないと思う。普通くん+8
Frontier246
Basically it's like a paid hostess gig.
それな。要はお金もらって疑似恋愛する仕事ってだけで、本質的にはキャバクラとかホストと似たようなもんだよな。でも千鶴の場合はちゃんと線引きしてるから、そこが違うって言いたいんだろうけど…まあ人によって捉え方違うしな。感情くん+21
Atario
Isn't *all employment* prostitution minus the sex work?
確かにそういう見方もできるけど、千鶴の場合は感情を切り離してサービス提供してるわけじゃないから、ちょっと違う気がするな。普通くん+12
hanzperson
原文
Gotta love how the MCs are covering up lies with even more lies and somehow it's being portrayed as a good thing. But Kazuya got his fake kiss that only happened because they were in a bad situation, so it's all good, right? Real "mature" of Chizuru as well to keep up lying in this situation instead of owning up to it. And Kazuya should wipe that shit eating expression off his face because she was literally forced to kiss him, it wasn't even real. Hated the noises he was making when he was getting kissed for the second time and the fact he got a LITERAL BONER from it and then fell down.
And again, how does Mami and everyone acknowledge the fact she could've faked the kiss but not the fact that she could've also just been kissing him but not been in a real relationship with him?
If Chizuru is framing this as her slowly having fell in love with Kazuya while working as a rental, shouldn't the family be questioning how she broke the rental TOS? In fact shouldn't they still be angry she's working as a RENTAL GIRLFRIEND at all, especially currently? Kazuya said himself that it's not gonna be accepted so easily when this started. And how in the HELL is his family fine with the fact that the two lied to them for so extremely long? How did they explain the whole "pathological liar" thing with Ruka if they came out with the truth? Don't they also care about the fact she didn't tell Chizuru's grandma the fact she was a rental girlfriend? And Chizuru was about to cry when they brought up the fact she lied to her grandma until her last moments, but I guess she's fine with lying about that now.
Both Ruka and Mami have valid reasons to be angry at her. She literally forgets she a rental girlfriend again and puts herself deeper in these situations AND leads Kazuya on further. She's not helping his grandma at all. How is she gonna just say "calm down" and "sorry" when she literally kissed the person Ruka loves in front of her??
Mami's had valid points and she's right that she's making fools out of everyone. Chizuru should feel guilty about literally KISSING her client. Literally no different than a prostitute since she's not gonna date him. But of course somehow Chizuru doesn't LOSE HER JOB OVER THIS LIKE SHE SHOULD OVER HER COUNTLESS TOS BREAKS BECAUSE SHE BROUGHT UP A STUPID POINT ABOUT MAMI BEING IN LOVE WITH THE MC. If she had any morals she'd quit her job right now instead of giving empty apologies.
But of course the show is just gonna pretend those criticisms aren't valid at all, move on without addressing the issue despite the fact that Chizuru made that "pained" face and instead she's gonna continue associating with Kazuya instead of actually making him tell his family they BROKE UP BECAUSE THIS IS A SHIT SHOW
An extra FUCK KAZUYA for literally giving up on her with the pool boner scene before and now he's freaking out on the toilet with some nonsense dialogue again even though it was A FAKE KISS and just completely disregarding how everyone felt last episode, including Ruka who he literally hasn't addressed yet for defending him. We all know he won't tell his family they drifted apart at all or broke up after this because he's a worthless irredeemable loser.
"I can't fall in love with him, he's my client" THEN FUCK OFF. YOUR DEAD GRANDMA'S LAUGHING AT HOW STUPID HER DAUGHTER IS
この状況、本当にどうにかならないものか。主人公たちが嘘を重ねて、それが良いことのように描かれているのが理解できない。和也のキスも、ただの状況に追い込まれただけの偽物だ。千鶴も「大人の対応」とは思えない。嘘を認めずに続けるなんて。
麻美の指摘はもっともだ。キスが偽装かもしれないのに、なぜそれが「本当の関係じゃない」可能性を皆が無視するのか。千鶴がレンタル彼女として和也と恋愛関係になったなら、規約違反を家族は問いただすべきだ。なのに和也の家族は長期間の嘘をあっさり受け入れている。瑠夏との「病的嘘つき」問題もどう説明したのか。
瑠夏と麻美が怒るのは当然だ。千鶴はレンタル彼女であることを忘れて、状況を悪化させている。瑠夏の前で和也とキスして「落ち着け」「ごめん」だけで済むわけがない。
麻美が言う通り、千鶴は全員を馬鹿にしている。クライアントとキスするなんて風俗嬢と変わらない。規約違反を何度も犯しながら仕事を失わないのはおかしい。道徳心があるなら、空っぽの謝罪ではなく即刻辞めるべきだ。
でもこの作品は批判を無視するんだろうな。千鶴が苦しそうな顔をしても、結局は和也と関わり続ける。そして和也はプールの一件で諦めたくせに、また偽キスで混乱してる。瑠夏への説明もなし。もう家族に「別れた」と言うこともない考察くん+6
Undisguised_Toast
They might be deceiving them but this is a legitimate confession by Chizuru
確かに千鶴の告白は本物だと思う。騙してるように見えるかもしれないけど、あれはちゃんとした気持ちからの言葉だね。普通くん+5
cheyrn
I hate the anime guy yelling thing.
うぜぇんだよアニメの雄叫び。2ちゃん+5
BosuW
原文
Man my Mami Agenda so strong it surprises even me lol. If what she does goes wrong for Chizuru and Kazuya I think "good, they deserve it!", if it turns out to serve to progress the plot I think "they don't deserve what you do for them Queen". They can never make me hate you Mami-chan 😤.
But on the topic of it "turning out well", man holy fuck I was extra disgusted with Chizuru, Ruka, and Kazuya this episode. It would be one thing if Mami pushing the issue finally got the fake couple to admit they're in love. But nooooo they really just pulled this shit _to cover their ass_. I don't give a shit how many times Chizuru apologizes and humiliates herself if it doesn't translate into actual consequences. I'm sorry Mami, but they have plot armor and it seems they will be allowed to get away with it every time.
And Ruka still thinking she's the real gf even though Chizuru kissed this mf _twice_. Okay yeah they're literally selling the lie that it's all still bizz to those who know. But if you're buying you're also a dumbass.
Btw great voice acting on Kazuya's seiyuu on the second kiss, he really knocked it out of the park lmao
マミアジェンダ強すぎて自分でも笑っちゃうわ。千鶴と和也に悪い結果になれば「ざまあww」って思うし、結果的に話が進むなら「お前らに彼女の行動はもったいない」ってなる。マミちゃんは絶対嫌いになれない😤
でも「うまくいく」って話になると、今回の千鶴・瑠夏・和也にはマジで吐き気がしたわ。マミが追い詰めてようやく偽カップルが認めるならまだしも、違うんだよな。ただ自分たちの尻尾隠すためだもん。千鶴が何度謝って恥をかこうが、実際に結果が伴わなきゃ意味ない。ごめんマミ、でも彼らには主人公補正があって毎回逃げ切れるんだろうな。
瑠夏はまだ自分が本命彼女だと思ってんの？千鶴が二度もキスしたのに。まあ知ってる人には全部ビジネスって嘘を売ってるけど、それを信じるならお前もバカだよ。
ついでに二度目のキスの和也の声優、神がかってたなww普通くん+5
_Arlotte_
I just can't stand Mami
まじで麻美ムリなんだけど！なんであの子が登場するたびに空気悪くなるの？やばくね？ギャル+5
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