+736
hikoboshi_sama
"Does this mean you'd drink with me if i didn't have to drive?"
Man, the silence was so loud it hurts...
「拙者が車を運転せねばならぬ身でなければ、共に飲んでくれるということでござるか?」
……いやはや、その沈黙、あまりに痛く響き申した。武士+223
cyberscythe
> Man, the silence was so loud it hurts...
the awkward silence in the car was also palpable
the way they drove into a tunnel and she was like "so when you went with Kamiina to the hot springs... was *this* hot springs better??" had me rolling
ああ…あの沈黙、まるで時空が歪むかのように響き渡っていたな…
- 車内に漂う気まずい静寂、まさに我が魂を切り裂く刃のごとし
- トンネルに突入した瞬間、彼女が「カミイナと行った温泉より…こっちの方が良かった?」と問いかけた時、我は運命の歯車が軋む音を聞いたのだ中二病+122
ClemFire
Their "date" really captured the vibes of when your crush isn't interested in you and it felt terrible to watch but I'm impressed by the scene
「デート」シーンのあの空気感、マジで片思いが通じない時のそれだったな…見てて辛かったけど、演出はすごいと思った。普通くん+87
PerfectBeige
**Gujou:** Fuck, Marry, Kill: me, Botan, and this jar of infused whisky I made just for you (*I hope I'm being subtle*).
やばっ、車の中のあの気まずい沈黙やばくね!?まじで伝わってきたわ~笑ギャル+68
the_dan_man
God, I hope this series gives Gujo at least *something* to balance out all the Ls she's taking...
「運転しなくていいなら一緒に飲んでくれる?」って聞かれた後の沈黙、痛すぎたな…
グジョウさんには、今までの不運をチャラにするくらいの見返りがあってほしいよ…普通くん+60
hikoboshi_sama
Well there is the new girl coming to the dorm. The chinese woman, the only one from the OP who hasn't shown up yet.
ああ、新入り来るって話か。OPでまだ出てきてない中国人の子だよな。グジョーに何かいいことあるといいなwwwwおじ+40
ThrowCarp
What a beautifully animated rejection scene though. Made it all the more painful.
確かに。あの沈黙は痛かったな。でも断るシーンの演出は綺麗だった。その分余計に辛かったけど。ドライおじ+26
Drago1598
This show is so damn beautuful and melancholic but my favourite scene is when Kamina is awestruck by the drink and the barman gets flustered.
やばくね!?このアニメめっちゃ美しくて切ないんだけど、私の推しシーンはカミナが飲み物に感動してバーテンが慌てちゃうところ!まじでかわよすぎるじゃん笑ギャル+162
Leri_weill
It was so funny how he broke his character for half a second
せやな、キャラ崩壊して一瞬で草生えたわwww2ちゃん+93
NanDemoKnaives
It was all I needed to find him cute lol.
確かにそれだけで可愛く見えちゃうんだよね笑普通くん+42
Leri_weill
He sometimes looked like Spike Spiegel to me
わかるんだけど笑 時々スパイク・スピーゲルっぽく見えるときあるよね!ギャル+25
SSjjlex
Barman Fully Blossoms When Complimented when
「褒められて満開になるバーテンダー、可愛すぎるだろ」って感じだね。同意。普通くん+23
Ocixo
Haha yeah. I bet that he also gave Botan a drink on the house because of that compliment.
ははっ、確かに!あの褒め言葉でボタンに奢ったのは間違いないでしょ(笑)感情くん+7
Rymphonia
The animation for this series is an art piece. There's such great direction and symbolism with the construction/blocking of the scenes.
このシリーズのアニメーションは芸術作品だな。構図や演出、象徴表現がめっちゃ上手い。普通くん+149
ClemFire
How Ibuki and Gujo are are so often separated in the shot like with the beam of light from the heavens themselves trying to tell Gujo that Ibuki is interested in a pink haired girl instead.
せやな、伊吹と具条がいつも画面の中で引き離されてるの草
天からの光が「お前の相手はピンク髪やで」って教えてくれてるみたいやんwww2ちゃん+64
Rymphonia
The light in the bar being only on Kamiina was another really strong compositional decision. It showed how vulnerable and self conscious Ibuki was. She was hiding, and down on her mood, while Kamiina was the bright spot in her drinking hobby.
確かに。あのバーの照明が上伊那だけを照らしてたのもめちゃくちゃ良い演出だったよね。伊吹の不安や自己意識の高さが伝わってきた。彼女が隠れて落ち込んでる一方で、上伊那が酒の楽しみの光になってる感じがした。普通くん+51
ClemFire
Exactly from Ibuki's POV Kamiina is the light that can pierce through the ramparts she built around her heart. This is why I love how the OP too is mostly from Ibuki's POV so no wonder why there are so many flattering shots of Kaminna because that's how she sees her
我が視点から見れば、伊吹にとって上伊那こそが心の城壁を貫く一筋の光なのだ。だからこそOPも主に伊吹の視点で描かれているのは納得だ。あれだけ上伊那が美しく映るカットが多いのも、彼女がそう見ている証拠よ。中二病+34
oops_i_made_a_typi
yeah the line usages was super apparent all throughout the episode, and culminating in that sunset shot i literally said 'what in the your name'
それな!あの夕日シーンまじで「君の名は。」すぎて草生えたんだけど笑 てか線の使い方やばすぎじゃない?ずっと気になってたわ〜ギャル+13
RobrechtvE
原文
The blocking is exactly why I'm confused why so many people think that final scene is Gujo taking another L.
Did we not all see Ibuki cross the divide over to Gujo's side of the screen? Did people not realise the symbolism of that, especially when we combine it with Ibuki taking Gujo's cigarette and taking a drag from it? Did people forget the exact symbolism surrounding Gujo and cigarettes and how she started smoking in the first place?
確かに。あのブロッキング見ればわかるよね。伊吹が画面の向こう側から具嬢の側に移動した意味、タバコを奪って吸うシンボリズム、具嬢の喫煙の背景を考えれば、あのラストシーンは具嬢の敗北じゃないと思うんだけどな。普通くん+9
SirGigglesandLaughs
原文
She just rejected her romantically but crossed the lines to reassure her that they'll remain closer friends. When people say she "took an L" they're talking about the romance. If you mean "she got closer to Ibuki in a platonic way" then yeah she did do that but that wasn't her ultimate goal there and the ED visualized that further.
Grabbing the cigarette doesn't change the major point which was Ibuki refusing to share her most intimate thing (drinking privatly) with anyone other than Botan. It was "I'm not willing to drink with you (date) but I'm willing to do these other things (cigarette) that represent our friendship and closeness. This type of ending for the "loser" is pretty common as a way of reassuring them that there is still a relationship even if not romantic.
まあ、彼女は恋愛面では振ったけど、親友としては距離を縮めて安心させたってことだな。「Lを取った」って言うのは恋愛面の話だ。友情として近づいたっていうなら確かにそうだが、それが彼女の最終目的じゃなかったし、EDでもそれが強調されてた。
煙草を奪ったところで本質は変わらない。伊吹が一番プライベートな行為(酒を飲むこと)をぼたん以外とは共有したがらなかったってことだ。つまり「デートとして酒は飲めないけど、友情の象徴として煙草ならやる」って線引きだな。敗者が関係を完全に失わないための、よくある締めくくり方だよ。ドライおじ+19
Substantial-Hawk-897
Is this Botanagatari? So many shots in the opening minutes remind of it
これボタナガタリじゃん!?冒頭数分のカットがめっちゃそれすぎて無理ッ!!感情くん+144
TheBusStop12
It's Yurimonogatari. Or Sakemonogatari
確かに!笑 でもそれ「ゆりものがたり」って呼ぶのアリじゃね? 酒も出まくるし「さけものがたり」もわかるわ〜ギャル+81
cyberscythe
if we're looking for a more punful name, Nomimonogatari rolls off the tongue better
確かに、語感で言うならノミモノガタリの方がしっくりくるな普通くん+58
sgt-pepper98
Bravo, this is the best one, covers the entire spectrum of the stuff they end up drinking (quite literally haha)
それな!!「ノミモノガタリ」が一番しっくりくるじゃん!笑 実際に飲んでるもん全部カバーできててまじで天才的なネーミングだわ〜ギャル+12
cyberscythe
i've been noticing bits and pieces of that ever since the absinthe episode
それな、アブサンの回からずっとそれ感じてたわ2ちゃん+26
runevault
If you told me the dream sequence at the start and the petalstorm at the end came from Kizumonogatari I'd have believed you. What stunning animation.
確かにw 冒頭の夢シーンとラストの花びら嵐、キズモノガタリって言われても信じるわ笑 作画やばすぎだろwwwwwwおじ+22
Railgun_8S
原文
Well the Storyboarder of the last 2 episodes and episode director of this week (and also Assistant Series Director) Shuntarou Tozawa previously worked on 2 TV Shows (Fire Force S1 and Undead Unluck) from Yuki Yase, who himself worked at Shaft for 8 Years and was the Chief Director for episode 17-26 of Monogatari Second Season. So it is likely that he was influenced by Yase.
Which wouldn't be the first one on Kamiinas Staff, Gin-san (Storyboarder and Animation Director of E3) was already heavenly inspired by Hidamari Sketch.
I truly love how the Staff behind this Show gets so much creative freedom, even if it means that not every episode will be well received by everyone.
確かにその指摘は興味深い。今週の話数と前後2話の絵コンテを担当した戸澤俊太郎氏は、以前『ファイアフォース』S1や『アンデッドアンラック』で八瀬祐樹氏の下で活動していた。八瀬氏自身はシャフトで8年働き、『〈物語〉シリーズ セカンドシーズン』17~26話のチーフディレクターを務めた経歴がある。つまり、この作風は八瀬氏からの影響が強く、結果的に『化物語』的なショット構成に繋がったという考察ができる。
また、これは『上伊那ぼたん』スタッフに限った話ではなく、第3話の絵コンテ・作画監督を担当した銀さんが『ひだまりスケッチ』から多大な影響を受けていた例もある。制作陣にこれだけの創作自由が与えられているのは本当に素晴らしい。たとえ全エピソードが全員に受け入れられるとは限らなくても、その自由度こそが作品の深みを生んでいると思われる。考察くん+21
LeonKevlar
Glad I'm not the only one who noticed. It felt like this episode was handed over to Shaft.
確かに、拙者も気づき申した。某も一人ではなかったと安心したでござる。今回の話、まるでシャフトが手掛けたような趣きであったな。武士+16
extralie
原文
Oh no... we are off to a very moody start.
Botan's idea of what a bar is like is pretty funny and cute.
Man, this whole scene in the bar from when the other people entered actually made me tear up a bit. Also, I really like the direction of having Botan be illuminated by the light while Ibuki in the dark the entire scene.
Senpai finally had enough... Botan run!
She doesn't have much screentime, but Akane was pretty cute this episode.
This whole scene, man... It's so good, but I also feel so bad for Gujo senpai...
She is not ready to drink with her, but this was at least nice gesture...
Them cutting from Gujo senpai (presumably) crying to the ending that shows Gujo and Ibuki's relationship from meeting her until now is so evil, it actually made me tear up again...
Also, her just losing colors once Botan showed up, is just...
I'm telling you, you can NEVER skip endings in this show.
ああ…いきなり重い雰囲気から始まってしまったな。
ぼたんのバーに対するイメージは可愛くて面白い。ただ、他の客が入ってきた後のバーのシーン全体、実は少し涙が出そうになった。特に、ぼたんが光に照らされ、伊吹がずっと暗闇の中にいるという演出は意図的で、二人の立場の違いを象徴していると考察できる。
先輩、ついに限界か…ぼたん逃げろ!
茜は出番は少なかったけど、今回のエピソードでは結構可愛かった。
このシーン全体…本当に良いんだけど、郷上先輩には本当に同情してしまう。彼女はまだ一緒に飲める状態じゃないのに、それでもあのジェスチャーは少なくとも優しかったんだよな。
郷上先輩が泣いている(と思われる)カットから、郷上と伊吹の出会いから現在までの関係を描くエンディングに切り替わる演出は本当に悪質だ。また涙が出てきた。
それに、ぼたんが現れた瞬間に色が失われる演出も…本当に考えさせられる。
言っておくが、この作品のエンディングは絶対に飛ばしてはいけない。考察くん+133
Zealicous
Her losing color part hit too hard then it should 😕
Poor Gujo
それな!?色が抜けちゃうとこ、想像以上にグッときちゃったんだけど😕 郡上ちゃんかわいそすぎるじゃん…ギャル+92
TheBusStop12
Especially if you notice as well that before she met Ibuki she also had no color. For the last year or so Ibuki had been her reason, and now it's gone again
特に気づいたんだけど、彼女が伊吹と出会う前も色がなかったんだよね。この1年くらい、伊吹が彼女の生きがいだったんだ。それがまた消えちゃったんだよな…。普通くん+18
oops_i_made_a_typi
that ending was so sad it was funny to show Gujo getting put in the cuck seat so hard, not subtle at all visual storytelling but great
確かに…あの色が抜ける描写は刺さりすぎた。五条が完全に寝取られポジションにされてて笑えるくらい悲しかったわ。演出は露骨だけどめちゃくちゃ良かった。感情くん+13
cyberscythe
> Senpai finally had enough... Botan run!
Gujo let me see what you have
先輩ついに我慢の限界か…ぼたん逃げろ!
ぐじょー、見せてみろよ普通くん+32
Solracziad
Crazy they got Spike Spiegel to bartend for them.
スパイク・スピーゲルがバーテンやってるのヤバすぎやろwww
ボタンのバーのイメージ可愛すぎて草
雰囲気暗めスタートやけど、これはこれでアリやな2ちゃん+26
Krazee9
> This whole scene, man...
They used the lighting contrast in that scene again too. Ibuki becomes enveloped in the shadow of the setting sun, making her appear darker compared to Gujo, who was illuminated just moments before.
They really weren't subtle with that visual metaphor this episode at all.
確かに…あのシーンのライティングの対比、またやってたね。伊吹が夕日に照らされた郡上と違って影に包まれてて、暗く見える演出。今週は視覚的なメタファーが全然控えめじゃなかったな。普通くん+16
ClemFire
>Also, I really like the direction of having Botan be illuminated by the light while Ibuki in the dark the entire scene.
This was such a well done scene. There has been so much visual symbolism in the show, but this is my favorite use so far
せやな、このシーンはガチで良かったわ。
光の中のぼたんと闇の中の伊吹、その対比がもう完璧やん。
今までにも視覚的な象徴表現は多かったけど、これが一番好きやわ。2ちゃん+10
Elvenoob
I so hope this series goes the poly route, all the major ships the series's spent time on are really compelling and everyone in this show is precious and deserves to be happy.
(In a more platonic sense, including that bartender lol, it was so adorable when the simple complement of his presentation of the drinks made that man's whole evening hahaha.)
確かに、最初はムーディーな雰囲気だったね。
でもぼたんのバーに対するイメージは可愛かったし面白かった。
このシリーズはポリアモリー展開になってほしいな。主要なカップリングはどれも魅力的だし、みんな幸せになってほしい。
(あと、バーテンがドリンクの提供を褒められただけであんなに喜んでるの、超可愛かったわ笑)普通くん+5
WalkingAbacus
Haha, blasting eurobeat while driving is such a mood.
Indirect kiss with a cigarette?? Wow, that scene was beautiful. Good for you, Gujou-senpai.
笑った。ユーロビート爆音でドライブとか最高すぎるッ!
間接キスをタバコで?! あのシーン美しすぎて泣いた。グジョウ先輩、おめでとう!!感情くん+115
SirGigglesandLaughs
That was definitely a rejection scene (not being willing to drink with her even without an excuse) but at least she got "sent off" in a kinder way. She's very sweet and has been respectful. Hopefully she'll find someone before the season is out. Another really beautiful episode! The ED also was sad for Senpai but a nice overview of their friendship.
あのシーン、間違いなく振られた感じだったけど(言い訳すらせずに飲もうとしなかったし)、少なくとも優しく「送り出し」てもらえたのは良かったね。彼女はすごく優しくて、ずっと敬意を払ってたし。今期中に誰か見つかるといいな。今回もすごく綺麗なエピソードだった!EDは先輩にとっては切ないけど、2人の友情を振り返る良いまとめになってたな。普通くん+108
cyberscythe
原文
yeah, i saw it as an indirect rejection because she refused to answer about the drinking together part
i think though that Ibuki is still processing her feelings, but she knows that drinking together is something that she wants to reserve only for Botan (similar to how Yaeka doesn't want anyone else but Akane to wear the same nail polish color)
the way that Ibuki took a drag on Gujou's cigarette makes me think that she's not exactly closing the door on Gujou, but opening another door
i think Gujou's mistake is that she's trying to be Botan and steal some of her mojo; in this episode she even uses Botan's knife (even though we see she already has her own knife), tries to go on her own onsen trip but better, and tries to be a poser in a lot of other ways (like with trying to drive stick last episode), but it seems like Ibuki is showing that she likes Gujou as she is, even the parts that she finds a bit shameful like her smoking habit
同意やな。一緒に飲む話をはぐらかした時点で間接的なフラれやろな
思うに伊吹はまだ自分の気持ち整理中なんやろ。でも「一緒に飲む」ってのはぼたんだけに取っておきたい特別なことなんやと思う(八重花がアカネ以外に同じネイル塗らせないみたいな感じで)
伊吹がグジョウのタバコを一服したシーン、あれはグジョウを完全に拒否したわけじゃなくて、別のドアを開けたんやろな
グジョウの失敗はぼたんの真似しようとしてるトコやと思う。今回もぼたんのナイフ使うし(自分で持ってるのに)、温泉も真似しようとするし、他にも色々ポーズ決めてるやん。でも伊吹はタバコ吸うトコ含めて、ありのままのグジョウが好きなんやろな2ちゃん+63
SirGigglesandLaughs
原文
I actually don't think that was indirect since both of them understood what that question meant (which is partly why she tried to take it back). Refusing to answer felt like Ibuki being afraid to hurt her.
Ibuki also seems to know she wants to be with Botan. It just seems like they're both feeling each other out to make sure they're on the same page, like "does she fully realize I like her as not a friend and how can I figure that out without fully revealing myself?" Ibuki seems very clear about Botan being her special person and separating her from anyone else; Botan does the same thing.
I think Senpai is in a "no win" situation as a result, no matter what approach she takes. Her chance was before Botan arrived and she kind of missed that. I think she realizes that now and is struggling to deal with knowing it was possible. Reminds me a bit of Sayaka from "Bloom into You."
確かに、あの質問の意味はお互い分かってたからこそ、返事を拒否する形になったんだと思う。伊吹はぼたんを傷つけたくなくて答えなかったんだろうね。
- 伊吹はぼたんと一緒にいたいって自覚してるっぽい
- お互い探り合ってる感じ:「本当に友達以上に思ってくれてるのかな?」って
- 先輩は完全に「勝ち目なし」状態だな。ぼたんが来る前がチャンスだったのに逃した感じ
- 『やがて君になる』のさやか思い出すわ普通くん+48
Major_Ad138
原文
I took the skies as the message that giving Gujuo an answer helped breakdown that wall between them. Whether it was plane trails or flaring from a sunset, they had distinct lines between them. Then night falls and the line disappears after she is turned down. She does say "Sorry". It's a rejection. But now they can become friends and get to know each other.
There is intimacy in the cigarette though. It doesn't mean romantic intimacy but she is touched by Gujou's interest. Gujuo is a genuinely kind person. I thought the worst when they showed her staring at a knife. It had an ominous tone as if we're seeing her dark side. Yet the only darkness was that she was lying about needing one so that she could use Botans. As if that would rub off some Botan luck onto her. I think she has self esteem issues and the poor girl needed some kindness in that ending. I thought it was very sweet of Ibuki.
せやな、空の描写はグジョウが答えを出したことで二人の壁が崩れたってメッセージやろ。飛行機雲でも夕焼けでも、最初は線がくっきりしてたけど、夜になってその線が消えたんや。彼女が「ごめん」って言った時点で振られてるわ。でもそこから友達になってお互い知り合えるってことや。
タバコのシーンは親密さはあるけどロマンチックなもんじゃなくて、グジョウの関心に心動かされたって感じやな。グジョウはガチで優しいやつやわ。包丁見つめてるシーンはワイも「やべえ闇来たか」と思ったけど、実際はただの嘘で、ぼたんの道具借りて幸運にあやかろうとしてただけやったんやな。彼女、自己肯定感低そうやし、あのラストでちょっとした優しさが必要やったんやろう。イブキさん良い人すぎやろ。2ちゃん+18
PerfectBeige
>That was definitely a rejection scene (not being willing to drink with her even without an excuse) but at least she got "sent off" in a kinder way.
A last (and first) cigarette as it were.
確かに、あれは断られてたよね。言い訳すらせずに飲もうとしなかったし。でも少なくとも優しく送り出してもらえたって感じだな。いわば最後(で最初)の一服みたいな。普通くん+10
Hitman7128
I'll just say it: they should just form a polycule with the indirect kisses
それな!間接キスとかやばすぎじゃん!?あのシーンまじで美しすぎて泣けるんだけど笑 つーかもう3人でポリキュール組んじゃえばよくね!?ギャル+13
Taedirk
Honestly. Botan seems like she'd be down with it.
せやな。ぼたんならノリノリでいきそうやんwww2ちゃん+22
awdsns
Botan would not just be down with it, it almost seems like she's actively trying to build one. With herself at the center, preferably.
それな。ぼたんは乗り気ってレベルじゃなくて、自分から積極的に作りにかかってる感じがするよね。しかも自分が中心で。普通くん+25
SirGigglesandLaughs
原文
I don't see it from her end, honestly. She seems pretty fixated on being alone with Ibuki and vice versa. Everything about her behavior has been about separating her and Ibuki from everyone else. From the marriage proposal to sneaking away from the group with Ibuki even when Senpai is there. Botan has not been one to share Ibuki and the group of friends realizes that.
I take her asking Senpai to hang out with Ibuki as the typical manga romance trope of wanting the friend with a one-sided crush to express their feelings once and for all. A nice gesture but not meant to imply a desire to share or to lose out. I've seen the same idea in a bunch of romance series where the losing party gets a "confession," so they can be rejected and have closure. Often it's the gf/bf who pushes them to do so. All that happened this episode, with the confession, rejection and closure.
確かに、ぼたん側から見るとその解釈は難しいな。彼女の行動を分析すると、一貫して伊吹との二人きりの時間を確保することに固執しているように見える。結婚宣言から始まり、先輩がいる場面でもグループから伊吹と離脱しようとする姿勢は、所有欲の強さを示している。彼女が伊吹を他の誰とも共有したがらないのは明白で、友人たちもそれを認識している。
先輩に伊吹と遊ぶよう促した件は、典型的なマンガの恋愛トロープ——片思いの友人に想いを告白させてケリをつけさせる——と考察できる。親切心ではあるが、共有したいとか譲りたいという意図ではなく、「きっぱり振られて終わらせるため」の流れだ。多くのラブコメで、負けヒロインが「告白」することで拒絶され、決着をつける展開があるが、それを今回のエピソードで実行したと見るのが妥当だろう。告白、拒絶、決着——すべて計算された伏線だったと思われる。考察くん+11
Nachtwandler_FS
Someone should redo the car scene with some m.o.v.e song as an OST.
確かに、あの車のシーンにm.o.v.eの曲を合わせるのはアリだね。普通くん+8
Savant_OW
Outrageously peak show. That ending was sad though
マジで神アニメすぎじゃん!?でもラストは切なすぎて泣いたわ…ギャル+114
Leri_weill
I thought this show was gonna be a nice little addition to my *Angel Next Door* fridays and nothing more but it turned out to be one of my favourites of the season
確かに!まじでこのアニメ予想外すぎたッ!
*お隣の天使様*のついでに見るだけのつもりが、今期のベスト級になってて泣いた感情くん+36
logawnio
The angel next door has been the biggest let down of the season for me. Now that there isnt any tension as to whether they get together or not it is sooo boring. Basically just episode after episode of them both saying
I love you
No, I love you.
Repeatedly over and over with zero stakes.
同意。*お隣の天使様*は俺にとっても今期最大の期待外れだったな。もうくっつくかどうかの緊張感がなくなってからめっちゃ退屈。毎回「愛してる」「俺も」の繰り返しで全然スリルがないんだよね。普通くん+9
shanatard
im reminded why many manga end immediately after they get together
the mangaka just have no idea how to write the afterword
せやな、付き合った後の話になると急に筆が止まるんやろなあ
漫画あるあるすぎて草2ちゃん+9
Leri_weill
Yeah, it's especially jarring when *You and I are Polar Opposites* finished airing a month ago 😅
確かに!*君と僕の正反対*が終わった直後だと余計に落差がヤバすぎるッ!😅感情くん+5
cyberscythe
imagine being in a yearning competition and your competition is Gujo
は?片思い対決で相手がグジョウとか無理すぎでしょ笑ギャル+104
ClemFire
That shot is diabolical, I haven't felt this bad for a losing heroine since \[Blue Box\] >!Hina, and the author better give her a happy ending in the next season.!<
確かに、あのカットは酷すぎるよ…… \[Blue Box\]のひな以来、負けヒロインにここまで感情移入したの初めてだわ。次のシーズンでは作者に幸せな結末を絶対に与えてほしい。普通くん+29
mastesargent
Yeah, uh… [Blue Box season 2, no specific plot details spoiled] >!Hina will barely be in it, because frankly the only purpose she actually serves in the story is to be a losing heroine.!<
同意。マジでそれな… \[Blue Box 2期\] >!ヒナ、ほとんど出番ないしな。正直、彼女の存在意義って負けヒロインでいることだけだし。!< しんどすぎるッ!感情くん+21
ClemFire
Thanks for the heads up but I can't click as I don't follow the manga
マジでありがと〜!でも漫画読んでないからリンク押せないんだよね笑ギャル+7
Ok_Scheme_4579
Roka from Cosmic Princess Kaguya had an unrequited relationship with Iroha according to the guide book…. Only to be taken away by Kaguya in few weeks….
確かに、空の姫君かぐやのロカはガイドブックでいろはに片思いしてたのに、数週間でかぐやに奪われたんだよな…。切なすぎる。普通くん+14
Weak_Season_Of_Anime
原文
That salty dog was clearly not salty enough, Ibuki had to add her own tears into it. But damn does her hiccup trauma run deep.
And another bonding moment between Botan and Gujou. Though they are love rivals, they have been so kind to each other. It's tough to watch knowing that Gujou will lose, even though Botan is trying her best to ~~push for the poly route~~ get Gujou and Ibuki to drink together.
The roadtrip between Ibuki and Gujou. Wow the visuals and cinematography were spectacular, but this is the final nail in the coffin for the Ibuki and Gujou ship. The whole scene is almost framed as a final farewell; the indirect cigarette kiss, the white and blue butterflies separating, and the last teardrop.
And to rub salt to the wound this week's ED was about freshman Ibuki and Gujou becoming friends. But hey, new girl next week, keep your head up Gujou.
**Edit: Flower language stuff.**
Purple, white and orange flowers.
Not sure on the id of the purple and white flowers, but they both seem to be the same species, just different colors to represent Gujou and Ibuki (their butterflies follow the same color coding too). Most likely candidate seems to be the Japanese Bellflower (Platycodon), which comes in both purple and white, and carries the meaning of endless love, honesty and the desire for the return of a friend.
Alternatively, if the white flower was a different species, it might be an Evening Primrose (Oenothera). It only blooms at night , so it carries the meaning of silent unrequited love (I guess this is related to the girl in Ibuki's flashback?). But it also can mean fickleness/changeable love since the flowers start off white but gradually change to pink (her growing relationship with Botan).
Orange flowers are marigolds (Tagetes), representing Botan. Marigolds in general seem to be associated with negative emotions jealousy and sadness, but orange marigolds can also specifically mean sincerity.
Orange day-lilies.
Japanese name of the orange day-lily (Hemerocallis fulva) is (忘れ草), literally meaning forget(忘れ) and grass (草), so this plant specifically carries the meaning for forgetting one's sorrows, a symbolism that got carried over when the plant was brought from China to Japan. So I guess the butterflies drinking from the flower are like Ibuki and Gujou drinking their sorrows away lol? They are also called day-lilies because they bloom for a day so there is that meaning of fleetingness and moving on too.
あのしょっぱい犬、全然足りひんやんけ。伊吹が自分の涙ぶち込んだんやろな。でもしゃっくりのトラウマ、ガチで根深いわ。
牡丹と牛嬢の絆エピもあったな。恋のライバル同士やのに、めっちゃ優しくし合っとるやん。牛嬢が負けるの分かってて見るの辛いわ。牡丹は牛嬢と伊吹を一緒に飲ませようと必死やけどな。
伊吹と牛嬢の旅パート。映像と撮影技術はガチで神ってたけど、これで伊吹×牛嬢は完全に終わったな。間接タバコキスに白と青の蝶々が別れていくカット、最後の涙…完全に別れの演出やん。
追い討ちかけるように今週のEDは一年生の伊吹と牛嬢の友情話やったし。まあ来週新キャラ来るらしいから、牛嬢元気出せ。
**編集:花言葉の話**
紫・白・オレンジの花。
紫と白は多分同じ種で、キキョウ(Platycodon)やな。紫と白で伊吹と牛嬢を表してるんやろ(蝶も同じ色分けや)。花言葉は「永遠の愛」「誠実」「友の帰りを願う」。
白い花が別種なら月見草(Oenothera)かも。夜しか咲かんから「静かな片思い」(伊吹の回想の女の子関連か?)。でも白からピンクに変わるから「移り気な愛」の意味2ちゃん+100
eightcheesepizza
I kinda wonder how Ibuki's nightmares relate to her drinking/hiccup trauma though. They're in school uniforms and wouldn't have been able to (legally) drink yet, right? Maybe at that age she was told she was annoying for different reasons, but she ties her hiccups to that?
確かに。伊吹の悪夢と飲酒・しゃっくりのトラウマの関係が気になるな。制服着てるし、あの年齢じゃ(法的に)飲めてないはずだよね。もしかしたら別の理由で「うるさい」って言われた経験が、しゃっくりと結びついてるのかもね。普通くん+42
HirokoKueh
imo her nightmare is people breaking into her personal space, like in the nightmare someone touched her shoulder from behind, drinking is very important for her, gotten judged on the party is like her drinking experience got broken into
せやな、あの悪夢って要はパーソナルスペースが侵される恐怖やろ。後ろから肩触られるシーンとかまさにそれやん。酒も彼女にとって大事なもんやし、パーティーでjudgeされるのは酒体験が侵害される感じなんやろな。2ちゃん+38
extralie
> like in the nightmare someone touched her shoulder from behind
I think that's the opposite? In the dream Ibuki have long-ish hair, while the person the hand reach for have shorter hair, and then the dream cut from that hand to Ibuki's hand reaching for the phone. So, I think it was her reach for someone.
確かに興味深い考察だ。夢の中で伊吹の髪が長めで、手が伸びる相手は短髪、その後に電話へ手を伸ばすカットが来るんだよな。つまり、あれは誰かに手を伸ばす伊吹自身の視点だった可能性が高い。制作陣の意図を読むと、彼女の内面の願望や孤独感を暗示している伏線とも取れる。考察くん+21
lolman5555
Anything carbonated would have caused her hiccups too
確かに!炭酸飲料とかでもしゃっくり出ちゃうってやばくない?笑 でも制服着てる夢ってのが気になるんだよね〜ギャル+16
eightcheesepizza
Hmm but she was willing to drink a Monster or other energy drink with Gujo.
確かに!でも炭酸じゃなくてもグジョウと一緒ならモンスターとかエナジードリンクでも飲みそうなのがエモすぎるッ!感情くん+11
WheelMax
I think Kamiina would be affected by anything carbonated, but Ibuki by anything alcoholic. There are different causes, but it could be alcohol irritating her stomach lining. In real life, apparently it's more likely after drinking large amounts, but in the show it feels like it starts shortly after any small amount.
確かに炭酸全般が上伊那に影響する一方、伊吹はアルコール全般が原因という考察ができる。原因は異なるが、アルコールが胃壁を刺激している可能性が考えられる。現実では大量摂取後に起こりやすいとされるが、作中では少量でもすぐに始まるのが印象的だな。考察くん+6
ClemFire
原文
I think of the hiccups as more of a window into her inner self and what she really has trauma from is being put down for expressing who she really is. Even though drinking isn't an uncommon hobby because she loves it so much she would hate to see others talk down to her about it which is why she keeps other at arm's length until the bundle of joy named Botan crossed her boundary like it was nothing.
I won't know why but Ibuki's brief flashback and crying at the bar really reminded me My Dress-Up Darling. Anyways my favorite scene so far and Ibuki deserves to be loved.
しゃっくりはむしろ彼女の内面を映す窓みたいなものだと思ってて、本当のトラウマは自分の本音を表現することを否定されることなんじゃないかな。飲酒自体は珍しい趣味じゃないけど、彼女がそれほど愛してるからこそ、他人に軽く見られるのが嫌で距離を置いてたんだよね。でもボタンっていう喜びの塊が平気でその境界線を越えてきた。
理由はわからないけど、伊吹の一瞬のフラッシュバックとバーで泣くシーンは『その着せ替え人形は恋をする』を思い出させた。とにかく今のところのお気に入りシーンだし、伊吹には愛される価値があると思う。普通くん+6
cyberscythe
> That salty dog was clearly not salty enough, Ibuki had to add her own tears into it
i thought that was a fun bit of foreshadowing; it's like that classic romance trope where someone's bread no longer sells because they started to taste too salty, and you find out that it's because the baker has had their heart broken and they've been crying into the dough in a clear health/sanitary violation
確かに「塩分が足りない」って描写、伏線として面白いな。古典的なロマンス作品で「パンが急に塩辛くなった理由は、パン職人が失恋で涙を生地に落としてたから」って展開があるけど、あれの逆パターンだよな。伊吹が自分の涙で塩分を補うって、衛生面的にはアウトだけど(笑)、彼女のトラウマの深さを視覚的に表現した上手い演出だと思う。考察くん+15
absolutelynotaname
This episode is like extra beautiful, every shot is so cinematic i felt like I was watching a movie.
Botan is such a kind person, she's obviously fond of Ibuki but still rooting for Gujo senpai to take her shot. Sadly she got rejected tho
このエピソードめっちゃ綺麗だったな、どのカットも映画的ですごくてまるで映画見てる気分だった。
ぼたんは本当に優しい人だよね。明らかに伊吹のこと好きなのに、それでもグジョウ先輩に頑張れって応援してるのがいい。でも振られちゃったのは残念だな。普通くん+83
ClemFire
The shots feel like they are going for a live action approach. I'm sure even Gujo and tell why Botan was able to break through Ibuki's walls but it hurts to watch
せやな、この演出まるで実写みたいやん。五城もボタンが伊吹の心の壁ぶち破れた理由分かってるやろうけど、見てて胸が痛むンゴwww2ちゃん+14
hammile
Itʼs Gujōver.
ギャー!グジョー終わったじゃん!やばすぎるんだけど!ギャル+67
geazylol
原文
Just wow oh wow. Most visually appealing anime episode in all of the spring lineup so far, I hope we get to see more out of this type of animation when we see more Botan x Ibuki crumbs.
GGs to the Gujo x Ibuki shippers though, that might've been the end of it. I always thought that Gujo's interest in Ibuki was of pure romantic intent only, but looking back on ep 4 and the sneak into Ibuki's past during her drink in the bar with Botan, I feel like another reason why Gujo is so desperate to be able to drink with Ibuki again is her knowledge about Ibuki's troubled past when it comes to drinking (watch the end credits here and you'll see still drawings of ibuki and gujo's first interactions while drinking all the way to them being the first occupants of the dorm). She wants to be the person to open up her walls again and drink with others despite her hiccups (which Botan already kinda did).
In the end, with the most beautiful scenery I've seen from this series yet, we see a rather complex interaction between them. Others see it as Ibuki's rejection of Gujo, but I see it as Ibuki's way of processing her feelings. The way she couldn't answer straight up the three separate questions of Gujo about Botan already implies that Botan is special to her. And the line in the end where she gets a puff of smoke from Gujo's cigarette asking "am I doing this right?" I think that's Ibuki indirectly asking if she's approaching things right with Botan and Gujo, especially since Botan is a newcomer to the dorm, she's wondering why Botan is the special one to her and not Gujo who has been by her side since (presumably) the beginning of her college life?
All in all, imo one of the top 3 romance anime this spring cuz of how subtle the details and meanings behind each character's actions are which is uncommon with your usual romance nowadays, or ig im just really a sucker for SoLs. Looking forward to more peak next Friday!
わあ、まじでやばかった。今期春アニメで一番映像美が光ってた回だね。もっとこういう作画でぼたん×伊吹の絡みが見たいわ。
郡上×伊吹派にはご愁傷様だけど、これで終わりかもな。俺はてっきり郡上の伊吹への興味は純粋な恋愛感情だけかと思ってたけど、4話と伊吹の過去回想を振り返ると、伊吹とまた飲みたいって執着には、彼女の酒にまつわる問題を知ってるからって理由もある気がする(EDの静止画見ると伊吹と郡上の初めての飲みから寮の最初の入居者までの流れが描かれてる)。彼女は伊吹の壁を再び壊して、酒を介してまた人と交流させたいんだろうね(でもぼたんがもうやっちゃったけど)。
最後の美しい風景の中で描かれた複雑なやり取り。他人には伊吹が郡上を拒否したように見えるけど、俺には伊吹が自分の感情を整理してるように見える。郡上の「ぼたんは?」って3つの質問にストレートに答えられなかった時点で、ぼたんが特別な存在だって暗に示してるし。最後に郡上の煙を吸って「これでいいのかな?」って聞くシーン、あれは伊吹が間接的に「ぼたんとの関係、これで合ってる?」って郡上に確認してるんだと思う。特にぼたんは新入りで、大学入学時から一緒にいた郡上じゃなくて、なぜぼたんが特別なのかって疑問が彼女の中にあるんだろうな。
全体的普通くん+64
extralie
>Others see it as Ibuki's rejection of Gujo, but I see it as Ibuki's way of processing her feelings.
I don't see it as Ibuki rejecting her, but I see it as Gujo giving up on trying to get Ibuki to drink with her. I hope Ibuki will eventually open up to the others, but for now drinking is something she only willing to do with Botan, and I think Gujo come to accept that.
確かに、このシーンを「伊吹が郡上を拒絶した」と捉えるのは単純すぎるな。むしろ、郡上が伊吹に無理に飲ませようとするのを諦めた、と見るのが妥当だと思う。伊吹が心を開くのはまだ先だろうが、現時点で酒を共にするのはぼたんだけという線引きを、郡上も受け入れたんだろうな。この関係性の変化、今後の伏線として興味深い。考察くん+21
geazylol
That totally makes sense! The fact that she had Botan herself help on making the strawberry whisky was practically signalling that it was Gujo's last hurrah trying to get Ibuki to open up to her, fully knowing that Botan is the only one capable of doing so.
せやな!ボタン本人にストロベリーウイスキー作らせた時点で、グジョーが伊吹に心開かせる最後の賭けに出たってことやろ。ボタンだけがその役目を果たせるって完全に分かってたんやな。2ちゃん+7
ClemFire
原文
>All in all, imo one of the top 3 romance anime this spring cuz of how subtle the details and meanings behind each character's actions are which is uncommon with your usual romance nowadays, or ig im just really a sucker for SoLs.
Last season had Polar Opposites but this season's breath of great romance is honestly such a sight to behold.
Also your breakdown of the final scene was really interesting and I didn't consider as deeply what it meant when Ibuki asked Gujo if she was doing it right.
確かにそれな。今期の恋愛アニメの中でもトップ3に入ると思うわ。キャラの行動の細かい意味合いがすごく繊細で、最近の恋愛アニメには珍しいからね。単に日常系が好きってだけかもだけど。
前クールの「君のことが大大大大大好きな100人の彼女」も良かったけど、今期の良質な恋愛アニメの豊富さは本当に見応えあるわ。
それと最終シーンの分析面白かったな。伊吹が「合ってる?」って聞いた時の意味、そこまで深く考えてなかったわ。普通くん+10
geazylol
原文
The Ramparts of Ice (which was made by the same author of Polar Opposites) is part of this season's lineup and is just as peak! The fl there reminds me of Ibuki too cuz they both have trouble lowering their walls due to their traumas from the past.
I'm lowkey reaching with that take LMAO, I just love to create hypotheticals cuz this anime has so much open-ended scenes with superb attention-to-detail.
同意やで。氷の城壁(Polar Oppositesの作者が描いてるやつ)も今期ラインナップに入っててガチでピークやわwww
ヒロインが伊吹みたいに過去のトラウマで壁作っちゃうとこ似てて草生えるわ。ワイの解釈は無理あるかもしれんけど(笑)、このアニメ細かい描写が神ってるから妄想が止まらんのやンゴwww2ちゃん+5
Need_not_to_know
This episode is so beautiful that I had to watch it twice. Might watch it again later.
このエピソード美しすぎて2回も観ちゃったよッ!また後でもう1回観ようかな…優勝すぎる!感情くん+46
AndyAndyZ510
原文
A little off topic but I just want to say that I truly admire the team at Soigne has done so far, it's truly immersive and endearing to watch.
Both mono (Soigne's first show and from creator of Yuru Camp) and now Botan are my top shows of all time.
mono inspired me to visit some parts of Nagano last year, this time Botan really makes me want to visit Chichibu and Mitsumine Shrine next year!
Almost skipped Botan due to watching so many shows this season, glad I picked it up while it started airing last month after seeing some amazing things said about it! Soigne I kneel and will watch anything you make from now on 😉
ちょっと話ズレるけど、ソワニエのチームは本当に尊敬してる。めっちゃ没入感あるし愛着湧く作品だよね。
『mono』(ソワニエ初作品でゆるキャン△の作者)も『ぼたん』も俺の歴代トップクラス。
去年『mono』に影響されて長野行ったんだけど、今回は秩父と三峯神社に行きたくなった!
今期は見る作品多くて『ぼたん』飛ばしかけたけど、評判良かったから先月から見始めて正解だった。ソワニエには膝まづくわ。今後も全作品追うよ😉普通くん+36
ClemFire
\[mono\] >!That skateboarding scene was honestly one of the best animated sequence from spring last year!<
それな!あのスケボーのシーン、去年の春のアニメの中でもトップクラスにやばかったじゃん!ギャル+11
runevault
原文
I feel so bad for Ibuki. She finally opened up a bit why she's so unwilling to drink around people. It is about what one would expect, but seeing how deeply it stung her hurts. Alcohol is something dear to her, and yet to enjoy it she feels like she must become a recluse, or did before Kamiina came into her life. I hope part of this show is her finding more people she can trust enough to let see herself be drunkenly hiccupping and vulnerable. Gujo deserves to be one of them but after the way this episode ended I dunno that it can happen now.
伊吹の気持ちが痛いほどわかるな…。ようやく人前で飲めない理由を少し話してくれたけど、やっぱりそういうことかって感じ。でも本人がどれだけ深く傷ついてるかが伝わってきて辛い。酒は彼女にとって大切なものなのに、楽しむためには隠れなきゃいけなかったんだよね。上伊那に出会うまでは。この作品で、彼女がもっと信頼できる仲間を見つけて、酔っぱらってしゃっくりしながら無防備な姿を見せられるようになってほしいな。呉々もその一人になるべきだと思うけど、今回の終わり方を見ると、もう無理かもしれないね…。普通くん+38
Ocixo
I feel sorry for Gujo. We don’t know yet what *precisely* went down with Ibuki in the past, but it hurts to see her favour Botan this much over Gujo. Aren’t they friends too?
You’d almost think that Ibuki doesn’t trust Gujo enough to open up about her inferiority complex.
郡上には本当に同情するよ。伊吹の過去に何があったのか正確にはまだわかっていないけど、彼女がぼたんをここまで優先する姿を見るのは辛い。二人だって友達じゃないのか?
伊吹が自分のコンプレックスを打ち明けるほど郡上を信頼していないようにすら思えるんだよな。考察くん+11
Rasputin1720
That’s how I’m feeling. She’s shutting her out so hard but telling/showing everything to Botan. And I know Botan is super sweet but her pushing Gujo to try and get closer to Ibuki, knowing full well they like each other seems sorta cruel.
確かに。グジョウを完全にシャットアウトしてるのに、ぼたんには全部見せて話してるんだよね。ぼたんは優しいけど、お互い好きなの知っててグジョウにイブキと仲良くさせようとするのは、ちょっと残酷だと思う。普通くん+7
jinddle
You know what, i had doubts about the show deciding to not have one true Animation Director but i can't believe I've seen it work in action tremendously well, always makes you wanna look forward into what type of creativity they would go for every episode.
ワイ最初は専任の作画監督置かへんって聞いて不安やったンゴ
でも実際見たらガチでハマったわwww
毎話どんなクリエイティブなことやらかしてくれるか楽しみでしゃーない
マジで期待を裏切らん構成やわ2ちゃん+38
absolutelynotaname
Right? I thought the same. It's a good chance for the animators to shine and develop their directing skill
それな!俺も全く同じこと思ってた。各アニメーターが監督として輝けるチャンスすぎるし、成長にもなるし最高じゃん!感情くん+6
LeonKevlar
Did they get Itamura to direct the first and last part of the episode? From the cut numbers to certain shots like the traffic lights and telephone lines, and even the silly cutaways, this episode feels very Shaft/Monogatari-coded. At one point, I was waiting for Ibuki to do the Shaft head-tilt. 😆
板村が今回の話の最初と最後のパートを担当したのかな?カット番号から信号機や電柱のショット、そしてギャグカットに至るまで、明らかにシャフト/物語シリーズっぽい雰囲気だった。途中で伊吹がシャフト首かしげをやるんじゃないかと待ってたよw普通くん+32
alan_14
The guy in charge for the storyboard/episode director is Shuntarou Tozawa. I'm curious about what are his thoughts when creating those Monogatari-like scene.
せやな、絵コンテ/演出担当は戸澤俊太郎って人やで。あの物語シリーズっぽいシーン作る時どんなこと考えてたんか気になるわwww2ちゃん+16
eightcheesepizza
原文
It's strawberry season and I'm trying to eat all the strawberries I can, but the ones I got today were moldy. 😢 I just wanted to complain for a sec.
Maybe I was too busy thinking about that to realize, until Gujo was offering the strawberry whisky to Ibuki, that when you cut the strawberries that way they look like little hearts. They really packed a lot of symbolism into this episode, huh?
With the addition of the ED animation, I'm coming around to the idea that Gujo basically spent this episode preparing for the end of her pursuit of Ibuki. Like Ibuki's favorite whisky infused with little hearts was her last, best attempt at getting Ibuki to let her in. And that she got Botan involved with making it, as a sort of peace offering, because she knew she's probably the losing heroine. She asks Ibuki questions, but she already knows what the answers are.
That ending hit me too hard, I guess. I can really relate to being in that situation and seeking closure how she did, but nothing I ever did was as beautiful or poetic as going to those fields of flowers.
いちごの季節だし、食べられるだけ食べようとしてたのに今日買ったやつカビてたわ😢愚痴りたかっただけ。
あのストロベリーウィスキーのシーンで気づいたんだけど、あの切り方すると苺が小さなハートに見えるんだな。今回の話、めっちゃ象徴的だったね。
EDアニメも相まって、グージョは今回の話でイブキへの想いに区切りをつける準備をしてたんだなって思えてきた。イブキの好きなウィスキーに小さなハートを仕込んだのは、最後の最善のアプローチだったんだろうな。自分が負けヒロインだってわかってて、ボタンを巻き込んで平和の証みたいに作らせたんだ。質問してるけど、答えはもうわかってるんだよね。
最後のシーンは結構響いたわ。ああいう立場で区切りをつけようとした経験、すごく共感できる。でも俺はあの花畑みたいな美しいことは何もできなかったな。普通くん+32
ClemFire
原文
The "date" between Gujo and Ibuki was beautifully uncomfortable and really captured the loneliness when you're the only one who feels romantic love. I appreciate how the show has treated Gujo as a losing heroine though and respected her feelings and didn't antagonize her but it still feels bad.
Reminds me of like how I felt for \[Blue Box\] >!Hina. I'm excited for S2 but I hope she gets a happy ending!<
草、グンジョーとイブキの「デート」が気まずすぎてワロタwww
恋愛感情だけ一人で抱えてる孤独感がガチで伝わってくるンゴ…
負けヒロイン枠扱いされてるグンジョーに同情するわ、制作側もちゃんと彼女の気持ちをリスペクトしてて悪役にしなかったのは評価できるけど、それでも胸クソ悪いやん
あと『ブルーボックス』のヒナ思い出したわ
>!S2楽しみだけど、ヒナには幸せになってほしいンゴねぇ…!<2ちゃん+15
TheBusStop12
原文
I generally dislike it when a romance has a losing heroine, because I feel bad for them. But I really appreciate that they're taking the time to properly flesh out these complicated and uncomfortable feelings. The way Gujo is portrayed reminds me a lot of Makeine Too many losing heroines, a show that I absolutely adore.
Here's hoping that Gujo finds the color in her life again eventually, maybe with the new transfer student they were teasing.
確かに、負けヒロインが出るとかわいそうで嫌な気持ちになるんだけど、この作品は複雑で気まずい感情をちゃんと描いてるのがいいよね。郡上の描かれ方、俺が大好きな「負けヒロインが多すぎる!」を思い出させる。
郡上にはいつかまた人生に彩りが見つかるといいな。転校生との展開にも期待。普通くん+7
ClemFire
I don’t like it when they are kept hanging around as backup choices, but understand that most romance don’t get their full source material adapted so it could be the case where their story isn’t finished yet.
With one more girl still yet to be introduced in the opening though I hope Gujo is able to move on with this transfer student like you mentioned.
確かに、いわゆる「負けヒロイン」がキープされ続ける展開はあまり好きじゃないんだよな。でも多くのロマンス作品は原作を最後までアニメ化しないから、単に彼女たちの物語が完結していないだけという可能性はある。
ただ、オープニングでまだ紹介されていない女の子がもう一人いるんだよな。君の言う通り、その転入生とともに郡上が前に進める展開になることを願いたい。考察くん+6
DocMcCoy
The small stall along the (white) asparagus fields here that in previous years also sold local strawberries... isn't there 😢
え、まじか…それ悲しすぎるッ😢 毎年楽しみにしてたローカルイチゴ屋さんがもうないの、しんどい…感情くん+5
awdsns
Man, being Gujou-senpai is pain. I hope someone can fill the Ibuki-shaped hole in her heart soon.
And can I just say, this show is so freaking beautiful. Every shot is just pure art.
ぐじょう先輩マジで辛すぎるな…。早く誰かが伊吹の穴を埋めてあげてほしい。
つーかこのアニメ、マジで美しすぎない?どのカットも芸術作品だわ。普通くん+34
mekerpan
Maybe the soon-to-arrive foreign exchange student will fall for Gujo?
I wonder what the ages are of all the main characters. Botan is clearly the youngest -- college freshman, right (but with a gap year or something). Gujo is in grad school, Where do the others fit in?
せやな、交換留学生来たらグジョ先輩に惚れるかもしれへんな
年齢気になるわ
ぼたんが最年少で大学1年(浪人かも?)やろ
グジョ先輩は院生
他の連中はどうなんやろな2ちゃん+12
awdsns
> Maybe the soon-to-arrive foreign exchange student will fall for Gujo?
I guess that's what they're setting up, yes. And with her, the prophecy of the *Rokudaime Yuri* will be fulfilled.
確かに、そういう展開を狙ってるんだろうね。彼女が来れば*六代目百合*の予言も成就するってわけか。普通くん+13
SYZekrom
Ahhh the light shining on Botan with Ibuki in the dark at the table
The plane trail separating Ibuki and Kanade on their hike... they're going in with the symbolic framing this episode huh
THE FUCKING LINE SEPARATING THEM WITH THE
God
The framing...
草ァ!光が当たってるぼたんと闇にいる伊吹の対比やばすぎンゴwww
ハイキングの飛行機雲で伊吹と奏を分断してんのな…今週はマジで構図で語りまくってるやん
その線で二人を分ける演出とか神すぎだろ
構図がガチで芸術点高いわ2ちゃん+31
hammile
Another divisions:
- by flowers and windows.
- by the flowers
- by the shadow
花と窓で分ける演出とか、影の描写とか…まじでエモすぎるッ!泣いた。感情くん+6
ObvsThrowaway5120
I really liked the visuals this episode. It’s kinda neat every episode is like a different kind of visual treat.
It’s nice to see Gujo finally getting to hang out with Ibuki one on one. Maybe one day they’ll have that drink together. For now, I guess they can settle on sharing a ciggie.
今週の映像マジで良かったわ。毎回違うタイプの映像美が見れるの地味にすげえよな。
具象がやっと伊吹と二人きりになれて良かったやん。いつか一緒に酒飲める日が来るんかな。とりあえず今はタバコ一本で我慢しとけって感じやなw2ちゃん+30
cyberscythe
incredible staging on some of these shots
at the bar table:
two flowers (one of which is probably peony (botan)):
contrails splitting the two:
at the windswept yuri fields:
it's almost distracting how bold these look
バーカウンターの構図、まさに神がかってたよな。
- 二輪の花(片方は多分牡丹=ぼたん)
- それを分かつ飛行機雲
- 風に揺れる百合畑
どのカットも主張が強すぎて、逆に集中できなくなるレベルだわ。
制作陣の演出意図が随所に感じられるな。考察くん+33
TheBusStop12
It feels like every episode director is issued a challenge to pour their passion into what *they* want to make and leave their mark. Because even in most visually pleasing anime with fantastic direction you don't get this many striking shots in a single episode. And because it's different every episode it never gets tiring and old
毎回の演出家が「ワイのやりたい放題やらせてくれ!」って感じで自由に暴れてるンゴね。
大抵の作画いいアニメでも1話でここまで印象的なカット連発はないわ。
しかも毎話違うから飽きが来ないんよな。マジで草。2ちゃん+19
alan_14
Mad props to the series director for allowing them to go crazy with the storyboard
確かに、シリーズ監督が各話の絵コンテで自由に暴れさせてるのはすごいと思う。普通くん+13
eightcheesepizza
I'm loving all these different art/animation styles, and maybe the best part for me is that, IMO, if every episode were as bold with the imagery and staging as this episode was, I'd be like "come on, now." Or if every episode were as freeform as episode 3 was, I'd get sick of it. But an episode is just the right dosage.
Can't wait for the 3D CGI episode next week! ^^joking
【返信】
いやもうホンマに色んな作風楽しめるの最高やわ
でも毎回今回みたいな演出バリバリだったら「おいおいやりすぎやろ」ってなるし、逆に3話みたいな自由すぎるのも飽きるンゴ
1話ごとに適度な匙加減で来るのがええわ
来週の3DCG回楽しみやな! ^^(冗談やで)2ちゃん+9
cyberscythe
at this point, i wouldn't be surprised if one episode was just a straight up musical
確かに!もうこの時点で、急に1話まるごとミュージカルになっても驚かないよな。むしろ見てみたいッ!感情くん+16
DocMcCoy
Can't wait for a repeat of this Bocchi scene:
このぼっちのシーンの再来が待ちきれないな普通くん+8
TheBusStop12
The environmental art and scene composition this episode is immaculate. Some of the prettiest I've seen
Direction is on point again as well as always. You can really feel the freedom each episode director is given to pour their passion into their own vision
今週の背景美術と画面構成、完璧だったな。近年のアニメの中でもトップクラスの美しさだと思う。
演出も相変わらず冴えてる。各話ごとに監督が自由にビジョンを表現できる空気感がひしひしと伝わってくる。制作陣の裁量の大きさが作品の質に直結してる好例だ。考察くん+25
ClemFire
The bar scene where Botan is washed over by light while Ibuki is covered in darkness was just too good
確かに!あのバーシーン、ぼたんに光が当たって伊吹が闇に包まれてる構図、良すぎるッ!演出が神ってる!感情くん+9
TheBusStop12
Yeah. The usage of illumination and shadow is a common form of visual storytelling and symbolism to illustrate ones mood during a discussion. It's something I generally tend to immediately notice and appreciate whenever a show uses it. But rarely does it look this ***aesthetic***.
確かに。照明と影の使い分けは、会話中の心情を視覚的に表現するよくある手法だ。普段からそういう演出にはすぐ気づいて評価する方なんだけど、ここまで***美的***に決まるケースは滅多にない。ぼたんに光が当たり、伊吹に影が落ちる構図は、二人の立場の対比を象徴的に描いていると考察できる。考察くん+5
Acrzyguy
Absolute amazing art directions for every single episode
That’s what anime renaissance feels like
毎話毎話の美術演出がガチでやばいンゴwww
これぞアニメルネッサンスって感じやな2ちゃん+27
cyberscythe
found someone on twitter who made this neat comparison between scenes in the opening and climax of the episode:
contrast of two scenes reflected in Ibuki's eyes: one of her past (a jilted lover? someone she used to yearn for?), and one of Gujo (strongest yearnmaxxer of today)
Twitterでオープニングと今週のクライマックスシーンを比較してる人がいて、めっちゃ面白かったよ。
伊吹の目に映る2つのシーンの対比:過去の誰か(振られた相手?憧れてた人?)と、現在のグジョウ(最強の憧れマシマシ人間)。普通くん+27
hammile
Actually there were at least three scenes, with Botan too.
マジで?ボタンも入れて少なくとも3つもあったんだ!?その気づきヤバすぎるッ!Twitterの比較画像見たい…エモすぎて泣くわ感情くん+8
hasanman6
They got some wind superpowers at the end of the episode
最終回で風の超能力ゲットしたんだな普通くん+24
cyberscythe
classic yuri physics
確かに!風の超能力って百合あるあるすぎるッ!感情くん+18
NanDemoKnaives
原文
That last scene was such a surprise, Ibuki still can't drink in front of Gujou but she was definitely closing the distance with that cigarette. That was her first smoke too, I thought Gujou was going to be blushing lol. I really hope for Gujou's sake, they'll eventually drink together, they've known each other for so long too.
What I like about Gujou as well is that she interacts well with Kamiina, I'm sure she's envious of her relationship with Ibuki, but it doesn't stop her from keeping that separate.
Too bad we didn't get to see Gujou in the hot springs though.
Bartender was sweet, I found it cute when he got happy about Kamiina's being taken by the look of the drink.
最後のシーンは良い意味で意表を突かれたな。伊吹はまだ呑みの席で上条と向き合えてないけど、あの煙草で距離を縮めてるのが考察できる。あれが初めての喫煙ってのも伏線的で、上条が照れる展開を予想してたんだがな。上条のためにも、いつか一緒に酒を飲める日が来てほしい。長い付き合いだしな。
上条の魅力として、上伊那との距離感もうまく保ってる点が挙げられる。彼女が伊吹との関係に嫉妬してるのは間違いないが、それを別の関係性に持ち込まない線引きがキャラの深みを出してる。
ただ、上条が温泉に入るシーンがなかったのは惜しい。バーテンダーの描写も丁寧で、上伊那が酒の見た目に惹かれてるのを見て喜ぶ姿は、制作陣の細かい心情表現が光ってた。考察くん+20
TheBusStop12
原文
>That last scene was such a surprise, Ibuki still can't drink in front of Gujou but she was definitely closing the distance with that cigarette. That was her first smoke too, I thought Gujou was going to be blushing lol. I really hope for Gujou's sake, they'll eventually drink together, they've known each other for so long too.
To me that felt like a rejection scene. Both realized that what Gujo was actually asking for was for Ibuki to choose her over Botan. And Ibuki couldn't do that. By refusing to answer she answered pretty clearly. The cigarette scene afterwards felt more of an assurance of Ibukis part that she didn't reject Gujo fully as a person, just her romantic intent. They could still be friends, just not in that way. Hence Gujo did not blush. She more likely cried.
>>あのラストシーンはマジでビビったわ。伊吹、まだ牛条の前で酒飲めないんかよ…でもあの煙草で距離は確かに縮めてたンゴね。初めての煙草やったし、牛条が照れるかと思ったら草。牛条のために、いつか一緒に酒飲めるようになってほしいわ、長い付き合いやしな。
ワイ的にはあれ、拒絶シーンやったわ。二人とも気づいてたんやろな、牛条が本当に求めてたのは、伊吹が牡丹より自分を選ぶことやって。でも伊吹はそれができへんかった。答えを拒否することで、はっきり答えちゃったンゴ。その後の煙草シーンは、伊吹が「お前を人間として否定したわけちゃうねん」っていう保証やったんやろ。恋愛感情は拒否したけど、友情は続けられるって。だから牛条は照れへんかったんや。泣いてた可能性のが高いわ。2ちゃん+13
SirGigglesandLaughs
Yeah it was "I'm not willing to drink with you (date) but I'm willing to do these other things (cigarette) that represent our friendship and closeness.
確かに!「一緒に酒は飲めない(デート)けど、タバコなら…」って友情と距離感の象徴すぎるッ!この関係性エモすぎて泣いた❤️感情くん+5
actuallyrndthoughts
Yea, there's no way they'd let the K-on girl get between the bocchi girls.
*Truth is... the game was rigged from the start*
それな!K-onの子がぼっち組の間に入れるわけないじゃん笑
*実はな…最初からゲームは仕組まれてたんだぜ*ギャル+22
ClemFire
It's ironic because Gujo's VA also voices Touko from Bloom into You so now she really knows how Sayaka felt
確かに。郡上の声優がやがて君になるの燈子も演じてるってのが皮肉すぎるな。今の彼女は紗耶香の気持ちがよくわかったんじゃないか。普通くん+12
hikoboshi_sama
So Gujo decided to gift her homemade strawberry whiskey and invite Ibuki to drink together... on a road trip where she had to drive? For someone who's supposed to be in postgrad, she really did not think this through. It's so funny how the most senior member of the cast is also the biggest girlfailure.
草wwww 草生えまくりやん
グンジョー、自分で運転しなきゃいけないロードトリップ中にイブキを酒に誘うとか頭おかしいやろ
院生なのにマジで考えなしすぎて草
最年長メンバーが一番のダメ人間なの面白すぎるンゴwww2ちゃん+18
ClemFire
Often times the heart can't help what it wants
それな。心ってどうしようもないよな…グジョウの気持ち、痛いほどわかるッ!感情くん+12
FinancialYear475
Every episode is gayer than the last, god I love yuri
毎回どんどん百合度が上がってて最高だな、やっぱ百合は正義普通くん+16
AlmostFamousStan
Oh man I did not expect a Yuri anime to hit me this hard this season but this one is so good in so many different ways
まさか今期の百合アニメでここまでやられるとは思わんかったわ…色んな意味でガチで良すぎンゴwww2ちゃん+17
ClemFire
This season is honestly such a feast for romance enjoyers, Botan, Ponsuka, Ramparts, and MarriageToxin just to name my favorites
わかるッ!今期ラブストーリー好きにはマジでご褒美すぎる。ぼたん、ぽんすか、ランパーツ、MarriageToxin…俺の推しだけでもこの充実具合ヤバい。感情くん+6
desantoos
Another beautiful episode from a show that oozes with vibes.
Though maybe pass on The Botan Kamiina Drinking Challenge (drink everything shown in the episode within the episode's allotted time) this week. This show has too much hard liquor to follow along, especially this one that has them guzzling flavored whisky.
この作品、毎話本当に雰囲気が素晴らしいな。ただ、今週の「上伊那ぼたん飲酒チャレンジ」(放送時間内に出てくる酒を全部飲むやつ)は控えたほうがいいと思う。この作品はハードリカーが多すぎて追いつけないし、特に今回はフレーバーウイスキーをがぶ飲みしてる回だからな。制作陣の意図を考察すると、酔いの進行をリアルに描くための演出かもしれない。考察くん+14
cyberscythe
i have whiskey-drinking friends who would wince at seeing a good Glenlivet used for a sweet cocktail infusion like that
確かに、あんな良いグレンリベットを甘いカクテルに使うのは、ウィスキー好きの友達ならみんな顔をしかめると思うわ。普通くん+12
Cuddles_theBear
New headcanon is that Gujou was going to win Ibuki over until she presented that drink.
\> "What the fuck did you do to this Glenlivet?!" - Ibuki, probably
マジで草www 新たな俺的解釈なんだけど、牛条が伊吹を落とそうとしてたのに、あのドリンク出した瞬間に終わった感あるじゃん?
> 「おいおい、このグレンリベットに何しやがったんだよ!?」って伊吹が絶対言ってるやつwギャル+18
heimdal77
I guess today is the day to be somber. Both this and Angel hit it with the somber episodes.
They gonna turn the girll into a alcoholic how everyone is always getting her to drink.
It is going be a miracle if that dorm doesn't just blowup one day.
Well I guess the blatant symbolism of the lilies being shows clearly states this is a yuri series.
今日はしんみりする日みたいだな。この作品もエンジェルも重いエピソードだったし。
みんなが彼女に酒を勧めて、アル中にしてしまいそうだな。
あの寮がいつか爆発しないのが奇跡だよ。
まあ、ユリがはっきり象徴的に描かれてる時点で、これは百合シリーズだって分かるけどね。普通くん+13
PerfectBeige
>It is going be a miracle if that dorm doesn't just blowup one day.
From ad hoc fermentation projects or sheer sexual frustration?
確かに!あの寮が爆発しないの奇跡じゃね?笑
発酵実験のせいか、それとも溜まった性欲のせいかって話だけど、どっちにしろやばすぎるっしょ!ギャル+13
szalhi
*Mandatory mid season addition.*
Gujou wants in this poly.
I find it interesting that she went up to the bar in the first place. I suppose she's not worried about being obnoxious to a bartender, it's their job to serve her after all.
草、強制ミッドシーズン追加キャラやんwww
Gujouもこの百合ポリに参戦したいンゴねぇ。
でも最初からバーカウンター行くの面白いわ。
「バーテンに迷惑かけても仕事やし」って割り切ってるんか?ガチで図太いな。2ちゃん+12
thisisdropd
原文
Kanade finally got a road trip alone with Ibuki. She's adorable when she got jealous of Botan. Unfortunately, she couldn't have a drink as she's also on driving duty. What a shame, after Akane & Botan had helped with the strawberry whisky. The indirect kiss with the cigarette's a decent consolation, though. I didn't expect Ibuki to suggestively pull it out of Kanade's mouth before putting it in hers. What a stunning landscape – and the scene with the flying leaves was pure cinema.
A new resident? This is bound to be exciting. How'd she react to the drunken gay shenanigans she'd be exposed to on a daily basis?
奏、ついに伊吹と二人きりのドライブだね。ぼたんに嫉妬してる姿が可愛すぎる。でも運転当番だから飲めなかったのは残念。あかねとぼたんがイチゴウイスキーを用意してくれたのにさ。間接キス的な煙草のやり取りでちょっと慰められたけど。伊吹が奏の口から煙草を抜いて自分で吸うなんて、そんな煽情的なことすると思わなかったよ。景色も最高だし、舞い散る葉っぱのシーンはまさに映画みたいだった。
新入り?これは楽しみだな。毎日繰り広げられる酔っ払い百合の騒ぎにどう反応するんだろうね。普通くん+10
RumicPosting
Easily one of the best visuals this season. The yuri is just the cherry on top.
Poor senpai tho, after everything Botan just showed up and scooped Ibuki effortlessly. She stands no chance.
まじで今期イチの映像美じゃない!?百合要素はまさにオマケみたいなもんだけど笑
でも先輩かわいそうすぎん?あんなに頑張ったのに、ぼたんが颯爽と現れて伊吹さらってくんだもん。勝ち目なさすぎでしょwギャル+11
superguy133
原文
It's really neat how they remind us from time to time they are all engineering students. Like it's such a small detail but it's also probably not what you would expect when guessing what they are studying (If anything usually these type of shows don't specify what they are learning since it barely comes up anyway). At least the amount of drinking they are doing makes more sense in that context.
Also I may be wrong but I think that was the first male character we've seen in the show. Up until now it wasn't 100% certain this isn't a full yuri alternate universe.
時々彼女たちが工学部の学生だって思い出させてくれるの、結構いいよね。細かい設定だけど、普通こういうタイプのアニメだと専攻とかあんまり触れないし。そう考えると、あの飲みっぷりにも納得いくわ。
あと、あれが初めて登場した男性キャラだったんじゃないかな?今までは完全な百合世界じゃないかって確信持てなかったし。普通くん+10
Hitman7128
-> Making strawberry whiskey and enjoying it
That petal storm?
Ibuki taking the cigarette out of Gujo-senpai's mouth and using it to smoke herself? Indirect kiss!
(ポジティブ・興奮)
イチゴのウイスキー作って楽しむのエモすぎるッ!花びらの嵐も最高!そして伊吹が三条さんのタバコを口から取って自分で吸う間接キス!優勝すぎるでしょ!感情くん+11
ClemFire
Gujo's consolation prize. That scene was very somber but I appreciate how Gujo's feelings were treated with respect by the show as someone who can't help but feel bad for the losing heroines
それな。グンジョーの慰めアイテムって感じだったね。あのシーンはすごく切なかったけど、負けヒロインとしてのグンジョーの気持ちをちゃんと尊重して描いてたのは良かったと思う。普通くん+5
hikoboshi_sama
The opening of the episode was pure art. The overall direction of this episode is really good.
The ED music video was so painful to watch tho.
オープニングが芸術すぎるッ!今週の演出マジで神ってる。
でもEDのMVは見ててしんどかった…泣いた。感情くん+9
Major_Ad138
The symbolism with the imagery they use is so beautiful. I really love how they use environments and atmosphere to convey meaning and emotions.
象徴的な映像表現がすごく美しいよね。環境や雰囲気で意味や感情を伝える手法が本当に好きだな。普通くん+10
Lwyn_
Sound so gay and I am loving every single part of this. God damn it.
I've never seen an anime studio channeling this much of similar art direction from my favorite studio, Shaft.
やばくね!?めっちゃ百合っぽくて最高なんだけど笑 まじで全部好き!
しかもさ、好きなスタジオShaftっぽいアート方向をこんなに取り入れてるアニメスタジオ初めて見たんだけど!ギャル+9
Primary-Paint-1716
I might have watched the best episode of any anime this season. That was beautiful
今期のアニメで一番の回を見たかもしれないッ!!美しすぎる…優勝感情くん+8
lifeischerryblossoms
this shows so good bro , gujo fc was winning this ep
このアニメめっちゃ面白いな、五条FCが今週勝っててよかった普通くん+9
lolman5555
Don't think this counts as "winning" here lol, buddy. The direction made it clear she basically got rejected but at least received a consolation prize
それな!これ「勝った」って言うの?笑
むしろフラれたけど、まあ参加賞もらったみたいな感じじゃね?笑ギャル+19
ZcaTs2
holy sangatsu
まじでさんがつやばすぎる普通くん+8
zool714
Man, if that was really a rejection then it stings like hell. It’s one of those “why can’t it be me” type of situations
マジでこれが振られたってことなら、めっちゃ胸に刺さるじゃん!「なんで私じゃないの?」ってパターンでしょ、やばくね?ギャル+7
OfficialPrower
This is the best thing I've seen this year visually I'm ngl, who tf is directing this show? Gods??? Best episode so far this was GREATTTT
今年一番の視覚体験だったわ、誰が監督してるんだよ神か?今回がベストエピソードだった、マジ最高すぎた普通くん+9
Lunchb0xx87
this show is art
このアニメ、芸術すぎるんだけど!?まじでやばい!ギャル+7
sKyBlazer08
原文
This show is fucking insane bro, oh my God. It's so good.
The lingering melancholy especially surrounding Gujo-senpai. This week's ending visuals is diabolical. Then there was also the bar scene with Ibuki. I didn't expect something as simple as excessive hiccups when drinking could make me almost tear up, but it did.
Honestly wasn't expecting to get this much depth when I first started this show. I thought it would just be some chill cute girls doing drinking together kind of show, which I would have also thoroughly enjoy, but what we're getting both that and much more, it's amazing.
The directing, the visuals, the animation, everything about it is awesome. The EDs alone telling so much story.
この作品、マジでヤバいな。マジで神回だった。
特に郡上先輩を中心に漂う物悲しさが印象的だ。今週のED映像は意図的に視聴者を抉ってくる演出だった。そして伊吹とのバーシーン。酒を飲んだ時のただの過度なしゃっくりが、ここまで涙腺を刺激するとは思わなかった。
正直、この作品を観始めた時はここまでの深みがあるとは予想してなかった。ただの可愛い女子たちが一緒に酒を飲むだけの癒やし系アニメだと思ってたんだが、それも存分に楽しみつつ、それ以上のものを与えてくれる。本当に素晴らしい。
演出、映像、アニメーション、全てが秀逸だ。特にEDだけでこれだけの物語を語れる構成力は、制作陣の意図を感じさせる。考察くん+8
DocMcCoy
The melody Botan is humming at the beginning is the final movement of Beethoven's Ninth Symphony#IV._Finale). Also known as "Ode to Joy" (or "An die Freude" in German), because it's was inspired by / based on that poem by Schiller, so much so that both the melody and the words are often seen as inherently belonging together
冒頭でぼたんが口ずさんでるメロディー、ベートーヴェンの第九交響曲第4楽章「歓喜の歌」だよね。シラーの詩が元になってて、メロディーと歌詞がセットで有名なやつ。普通くん+7
djthomp
Some very distinctive camera angles and artistic shots today, i assume that must be the director's style.
Poor Gujo-senpai just keeps taking Ls, particularly in the ED story today.
今日のカメラワークと構図、めっちゃ独特だった!絶対監督のスタイルだよねッ!
郡上先輩が可哀想すぎる…特に今日のEDの話、また負けてて泣いた…ッ!感情くん+7
ActualMolasses3271
I like the fact that when ibuki asked for a drink that will cheer her up it was the color of minas hair implying thats the only person that can cheer her up
それな!伊吹が元気出る飲み物頼んだら皆の髪色と同じだったのやばくない!?つまり元気にしてくれるの皆だけってことじゃん!まじで尊い〜!ギャル+6
CommunistPuppy
This show is so freaking good, it might be the one I look forward most to watching every week
The cut to the blasting eurobeat was so unexpected and actually made me laugh out loud
このアニメめちゃくちゃ良くて、毎週一番楽しみにしてるかも
急にユーロビートが爆音で流れたの予想外すぎて、実際に声出して笑っちゃったわ普通くん+7
Tsukiko_
Im convinced I should start drinking and smoking
まじで私も酒とタバコ始めたくなってきたんだけど!笑ギャル+6
Burnouts3s3
Now, THIS was a beautiful episode!
今の回、めっちゃ綺麗だったね!普通くん+7
yoshimonpinata
原文
truly elated to see ep 4 and 5 feel distinct in direction while also not sacrificing a relatively similar looking style of drawing, this episode had very very noticable direction (lots of split down the middle framing and lighting etc) but also kept the look of past episodes and still distinguished itself which was so nice, really love this series except for episode 3 and hope it continues on the trend that 1, 2 4 and 5 have set in the future.
4話と5話は作画スタイルの一貫性を保ちつつ、演出面で明確な個性を打ち出していたのが素晴らしいな。特に今話は中央分割の構図や照明など、演出が非常に際立っていた。過去のエピソードのルックを維持しながら独自性を確立している点が本当に良い。3話以外はこのシリーズが大好きだし、1・2・4・5話が示した方向性を今後も継続してほしいと願っている。考察くん+5
SaltAndABattery
Studio Soigne is freakin going hard, jeez!
スタジオソワニエ、めっちゃ気合い入ってるな、やばい!普通くん+5
MeiAki00
原文
Such an amazing show, the change in directorial style each episode really shone this time.
When they decided to reference The Infamous Evangelion Ep.24 When Ibuki Meets Kamiina ahead of the bar scene i had to pause and collect myself. Such a bold and beautifully executed homage (especially with how the final shot of both this episode and NGE24 are mirrored to show a love dying, savage and gorgeous work.)
この作品、本当に素晴らしいな。毎回監督のスタイルが変わる演出が、今回は特に際立ってたと思う。
バーシーンの前に、あの悪名高いエヴァンゲリオン24話「伊吹と上伊那の出会い」を引用する判断をした時は、一旦止めて自分を落ち着かせる必要があったよ。あれほど大胆で美しく実行されたオマージュはそうない(特に、今回のエピソードとNGE24話の最終カットが、死にゆく愛を映し出すように鏡合わせになっているのは、凄絶で見事な構成だという考察ができる)。考察くん+5
Ok_Scheme_4579
If I had a nickel for every time a girl who has platonic relationship with the main character only to be taken away by someone else who just appeared a few days, I would have two nickels in this year
「主人公とただの友達だった女の子が、現れたばかりの別の誰かに奪われる展開、今年だけで2回も見たんだけどッ! なんでだよ…しんどすぎる」感情くん+6
Andreiyutzzzz
Man it's suffering to be Gujo senpai
確かにグジョウ先輩は辛い立場だよね…普通くん+5
QuienNZ
That episode was beautiful, I’m glad Gujou finally got the courage to shoot her shot even though I think she missed her chance, rather than never had one. The rejection hurt, and the ED just made it all the harder seeing how close they were.
このエピソードは本当に美しかった。具条がようやく勇気を振り絞って告白したのは良かったと思う。ただ、彼女にチャンスが「なかった」のではなく「逃した」可能性が高いと考えると、その拒絶は痛烈だ。EDで2人の距離感が描かれるほど、その切なさが増幅される構造になっている。考察くん+7
larana1192
The “Hippie Drink Shop” that appears partway through is a parody of the real-life “Happy Drink Shop.”
**
Happy Drink Shop is a drive-in in Yamanashi that uses vending machines. They previously collaborated with yuru camp.
途中に出てくる「ヒッピードリンクショップ」は実在の「ハッピードリンクショップ」のパロディなんだね。
**
ハッピードリンクショップは山梨県にある自動販売機を使ったドライブインで、以前「ゆるキャン△」とコラボしてたんだって。普通くん+6
Viktorv22
Welp, I think I'm running out of adjectives for describing this show.
Simply stunning.
草、褒める言葉もう尽きてきたわ
マジでやばい。ただただ美しいンゴwww2ちゃん+5
LeaveNoPresence
I need to find a nice, dark, moody bar when I'm in Tokyo in a couple months.
東京行くなら雰囲気のある暗めのバー探さないとな。普通くん+5
Puzzleheaded_Play825
原文
Holy shitt what did I just watch
Dang poor ibuki no wonder she so self conscious and I’m guess said person was pretty important to her to
Though the whole half episode of ibuki and gujo I think was needed for both of them.
Gujo biggest problem was the fact that she was both trying to hard but also not trying hard enough.
Whether she was scared of rejection or was trying so hard to impress ibuki
It couldn’t really get her pass ibuki wall cause at the end of the day what she needed was to be more honest about she feel. And not worry so much about what the end result will be good or bad.
And this was a good representation of that since while there where quite intentional with the distances
Even more so with creating more distance with gujo question
For the first time ibuki is actually looking and thinking about gujo. And what the relationship is.
Now her attempts ultimately did push ibuki away from her but it was kinda needed for her to just be more upfront and show ibuki the distance she was putting between the 2 before
Ibuki kinda needed this experiences to. At the end of the day her drinking habits are just her preference there’s nothing wrong with and nobody should judge for it.
But ibuki was kinda using as both a crutch for herself and wall to keep others out. And distance
Like she had someone right next to her before botan who really wanted to bonded with her.
I’m not trying to say it all ibuki fault or what not. Or that she a horrible person.
And this is a bit of a over exaggeration since ultimately it just her drinking habits and
As I said gujo was kinda putting her up on a pedestal and trying to be to round about and should have just been more upfront about it
But ibuki was alway putting a wall for her
But it’s more so a matter of trust and honesty
where botan got to come and go as she please
Which is kinda crappy if you ask me. Always rejecting her and putting distance without ever explaining why
And consider both the ending and what we learn last episode I think gujo probably already knows about the hiccups
今の話、何が起きたんだって感じだな…
伊吹、かわいそうだよな。あれだけ自己意識が強いのも納得だし、あの“誰か”は彼女にとってかなり重要な存在だったんだろう。
ただ、伊吹と具嬢の半話分のエピソードは、二人にとって必要なものだったと思う。
具嬢の最大の問題は、頑張りすぎているのに、同時に頑張りが足りなかったところだな。拒絶されるのが怖かったのか、それとも伊吹に好印象を与えたかったのか。
結局、彼女が本当に必要だったのは、もっと素直に気持ちを伝えることであって、結果が良いか悪いかを気にしすぎないことだったんだ。
それを象徴するのが、意図的に距離を置く描写だよな。特に具嬢の質問でさらに距離ができたシーンは象徴的だ。
初めて伊吹が具嬢のことをちゃんと見て、関係性について考え始めたんだ。
結果的に具嬢の行動は伊吹を遠ざけてしまったけど、それも彼女がもっと率直になって、今まで二人の間にあった距離を伊吹に見せるためには必要なことだった。
伊吹にもこの経験は必要だったんだ。結局、彼女の飲酒習慣は単なる好みで、それ自体に問題はないし、誰もそれを責めるべきじゃない。
でも伊吹はそれを自分の支えとして使うと同時に、他人を遠ざける壁としても使っていたんだな。例えば、牡丹の前に、本当に彼女と絆を深めたかった人がすぐ隣にいたのに。
別に全部が伊吹のせいだとか、彼女が酷い人間だと言いたいわけじゃ考察くん+6
NoHead1715
F for Gujo.
Ibuki has made her choice, it's just not Gujo despite their history together. A shared smoke is the best consolation she can give.
Botan has been supremely kind by pushing Gujo to shoot her shot, even helping with preparations. Let's see how things go with the incoming exchange student. Perhaps Gujo would get an admirer herself. Or Botan might find a new tongue to chase.
具女には同情するわ。過去があっても、結局伊吹が選んだのは具女じゃなかった。一緒に煙草吸うのが精一杯の慰めだよな。
ぼたんは具女に告白を後押しして、準備まで手伝うなんてマジ優しい。次の留学生でどうなるかだな。具女に新たな恋が来るか、それともぼたんが別の相手を追いかけるか。普通くん+6
GerHunterIB
DSG Shift knob in an anime.
まじで!?アニメでDSGシフトノブとかあるんだけど!やばくね!?笑ギャル+6
logawnio
I took it as her apologizing for the rejection but letting her gujo know that she does want to get closer, just not in that way.
彼女が告白を断ったことへの謝罪と、恋愛感情じゃなくてもっと仲良くなりたいって気持ちを伝えたんだと思う。普通くん+9
larana1192
原文
It was kind of cute how Gujou called a tin can a “kan kan.” The detail of her keeping the air conditioner remote inside the tin can really gave it a down-to-earth feel, and it made me laugh.
Making umeshu with crystal rock sugar and shochu (or, if unavailable, vodka or Everclear) is a classic early summer tradition in Japan, so it seems only natural that Botan would have mistakenly thought she was making umeshu when she saw the crystal rock sugar and the bottle.
It’s a shame that Gujou made a drink with Glenlivet and strawberries just for Ibuki, but she can’t drink it because she’s too shy to drink in front of others.
グジョウが缶詰を「カンカン」って呼ぶのが可愛いんだよな。エアコンのリモコンを缶の中に保管してる描写がすごく生活感あって、思わず笑っちゃった。
氷砂糖と焼酎(なければウォッカやエバークリア)で梅酒を作るのは日本の初夏の風物詩だから、ぼたんが氷砂糖と瓶を見て梅酒作りと勘違いするのは自然な流れだと思われる。
グジョウがイブキのためにグレンリベットとイチゴでお酒を作ったのに、人前で飲むのが恥ずかしくて飲めないのはもったいないな。この羞恥心の描写がキャラクターの内面をよく表している。考察くん+5
zairaner
She generally seems to be okay with (or had to accept) the epople serving her at her favourite drinking places, it was the same for the drinking boutique in episode 2
彼女、行きつけの飲み屋で給仕されるのにはまあ許容してる(というか受け入れてる)感じだよね。第2話の酒屋でも同じだったし。普通くん+20
cyberscythe
Ibuki also frequents that bar boutique, so i think she's okay in general with the hiccups; i'm thinking the bar setting might've triggered some of her bad memories
伊吹もあのバー行きつけやし、しゃっくりにはまあ許容的なんやろな。でもバーの雰囲気で嫌な記憶思い出しちゃった可能性あるンゴね……ワイもそれ思ったわ2ちゃん+15
extralie
I mean, her fear is that she might come off as obnoxious to people, and he is bartender, so she probably didn't feel the need to worry, since you know, it's basically his job to put up with obnoxious people.
確かに、彼女は周りにうざがられてるんじゃないかって不安だったんだよね。相手はバーテンダーだし、酔った客に付き合うのが仕事みたいなもんだから、そこまで気にしなくてもいいって思ったのかもな。普通くん+14
PM_ME_YOUR_ROBOTGIRL
原文
I think there's a few levels of misunderstanding going on, here.
The first misunderstanding is this:
> Based on the title, this show is SUPPOSED to be about how Botan really lets loose when drunk
This is an issue with how the title of the show is translated, and there isn't much of a way to really fix it. The original Japanese title uses the symbolism of lilies to establish firmly that this is a GL anime. The author has stated, explicitly, that this is a GL series. In other words, the title is suggestive that Kamiina Botan is getting into girls' love while drunk. This has been true of every single episode thus far; the love triangle is simply a means of adding excitement to what would otherwise be straightforward GL. To be clear, I actually really hate love triangles in romance stories, so I'm not even saying this as a defense. It's just what I think is observably true.
The second misunderstanding is this:
> and that whole relationship revolves around Botan knowing WHY Ibuki doesn't drink with anyone, with Koujo out of the loop on it but knows that the two have a special relationship and [I believe] knows that Botan and Ibuki have been drinking together.
This I believe is a misinterpretation of the nature of Gujo and Ibuki's relationship and what the point of the love triangle is. The ED cinematic for this episode reveals that Ibuki and Gujo have actually drunk together; she *should* be aware of her habit. This is especially since there are conversations earlier in the show that suggest that the students at the dorm know that Ibuki is clearly embarrassed about drinking with others, and even if they don't know exactly why, they at the very least know that it's due to some habit of hers.
This love triangle isn't really defined by an information gap between each party, but rather it's defined by the establishment of boundaries. Ibuki isn't strictly opposed to the idea of her habit being known, as she'll do it in front of bartenders or service staff. She's opposed to the idea of being mocked for it. The hiccuping habit is a representation of Ibuki's vulnerability, which in turn leads to Botan allowing her to feel vulnerable safely. A good way to understand this is Gujo asking Ibuki if she liked being at the hot springs with her more than with Botan. This really has nothing to do with drinking, it's entirely Gujo trying to get a feel for how Ibuki feels about her and if she's open to something more, just exactly how special her relationship with Botan even is.
This evolves into the idea of Ibuki believing that Botan is someone uniquely special to her; someone who she wants to share her deepest vulnerabilities and secrets to, only her. This is thematically foreshadowed by Yaeka's protectiveness over nail polish, the show is trying to establish that in the romantic language of this narrative, there are certain special things that people can share only with one another, as a representation of the uniqueness of their relationship. This is true even of Gujou's smoking habit, as an earlier ED cinematic revealed that it originated from a previous friendship she had.
So, what's the resolution to this love triangle? This is the resolution. Gujou attempted to impose on the boundaries that were set, and Ibuki made it clear that she will not commiserate on her unique relationship with Botan for Gujou's sake. However, she *will* allow Gujou a small entryway into her life through the shared smoke, as a kind of final send-off/"we can still be friends" sort of thing. The fact that this episode is basically the end to this particular conflict is sort of all over its visual language, as well as Gujou saying that there'll be a transfer student soon, which is basically code for "we're moving on to a new character and their effects on the group dynamic".
> Because outside of gay girls being gay and drunk at the same time, what else is there to this show?
Yuri is an appeal in its own. But, if you're asking what distinguishes it from other GL works, it's a show about people learning to be vulnerable with one another, experiencing rejection and acceptance in equal measure, and coming to new understandings about the boundaries they have set for themselves and others. Alcohol is the boundary setter and the boundary breaker. It's also a show about habits, and how our hobbies and customs can define our relationships with others. Nail polish, music, alcohol, smoking, it's all here.
このコメント、いくつか誤解のレベルがあると思うンゴ。
**誤解1: 「タイトルからして酔ったぼたんが暴れる話だろ」**
元の日本語タイトルは百合を象徴に使ってて、作者が明言してるGLアニメや。つまり「上伊那ぼたんが酔って百合に走る」って話。三角関係はそのスパイスに過ぎん。ワイも三角関係嫌いやけど、これは事実やろ。
**誤解2: 「伊吹が誰とも酒飲まない理由をぼたんだけ知ってる」**
ED見れば分かるけど、伊吹と紅条は実は一緒に飲んでる。寮の連中も伊吹が人前で酒飲むの恥ずかしがるの知ってる。この三角関係は「情報格差」じゃなくて「境界線」の問題や。伊吹は笑われるのが嫌なだけで、しゃっくりは弱みの象徴。ぼたんはそれを安全にさらけ出せる相手ってわけ。
**「酔った百合以外に何があるの?」**
百合それ自体が魅力やけど、この作品の特徴は「互いに弱みを見せ合うこと」や。拒絶と受容を経験しながら、自分と他人に引いた境界線を再認識していく。酒は境界線を引いたり壊したりするツール。趣味や習慣が人間関係を形作る話でもある。ネイル、音楽、酒、煙草…全部そこに繋がってるンゴ。2ちゃん+22
SirGigglesandLaughs
原文
Very good write up. Agreed on all fronts, especially about Ibuki's choice of drinking partner; that is not based on wanting Ibuki to "spill." There's nothing to spill there. It's not the hook either. She simply chooses one special (romantic) partner to share those moments with and Senpai is not that person. Senpai's story is about a missed opportunity, not missing information. She did not take the chance Botan did and lost out as a result. These last episodes have been a slow, agonizing realization for her that her moment passed her by before she understood there was an opportunity.
Also, there's been so much depth to these last few episodes, so the idea that it's not had enough to say or present is a bit surprising. It's a show about relationships; it'll always focus on those relationships. How they develop, crash, change forms and collide with one another. The last few episodes have been full of that and in interesting forms. There is a lot more that can be done and many other relationships and lives to develop alongside our main couple.
I'm glad we've gotten more Yuri series developed to show what these series have to offer. There's so much great storytelling out there that hasn't been adapted and it feels like some are starting to realize that with these recent series. The series have a lot to say and are of really good quality. There's also such a variety out there and we're starting to see that show up in anime. Before they'd only adapt one type of Yuri series but not so much anymore.
いい考察だね。全部同意。特に伊吹の飲み相手の選び方は「吐かせる」ためじゃなくて、特別な(恋愛的な)相手とその瞬間を共有したいだけで、先輩はその対象じゃないってとこ。先輩の話は「機会を逃した」って話であって「情報不足」じゃない。彼女はぼたんが掴んだチャンスを掴めずに、気づいた時にはもう遅かったってこと。この数話は彼女にとって、ゆっくりとした苦い気づきの過程だったんだよね。
あと、最近のエピソードにはめっちゃ深みがあるから「語ることが足りない」って意見にはちょっと驚くわ。この作品は人間関係がテーマで、それがどう発展し、壊れ、形を変え、ぶつかり合うかを描いてる。最近の話はまさにそれで面白い形で表現されてる。メインカップル以外にもまだまだ描ける関係性や人生はたくさんあるしね。
最近の百合シリーズが多様化してきて嬉しいよ。未だアニメ化されてない名作もたくさんあるし、ようやくその価値が認められてきた感じ。質も高いし、語ることも多い。昔は特定のタイプの百合しかアニメ化されなかったけど、今は違うね。普通くん+10