Dr.STONE SCIENCE FUTURE

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再会
天・地・水上と激しさを増す科学王国同士の制圧戦。空中で千空たちがドッグファイトを繰り広げるなか、地上ではゼノ軍が巨大な潜水艦でペルセウス号を襲撃!万事休すかと思われた時、クロムたちがゼノを確保する。
エピソードサムネイル
Santedtra
So all this time Why-man's just a buncha aliens with really bad communication skills.
まじで!?結局ホワイマンって宇宙人の集団で、しかもコミュ障すぎるってオチじゃん笑ギャル
Mexander98
I think it's that the way they think is well, alien. Maybe it's just the case that on average intelligent species think more differently than humans, and we are an outlier in the way we think.
ワイ的には「あいつらの考え方、完全にエイリアンやん」って思うわ。平均的に賢い種族ほど人間と思考が違うだけで、むしろ人間の考え方の方が外れ値なんちゃう?って感じやな。2ちゃん
clone69
原文
I mean, just as we assume all life must be carbon based, they may assume all life is mechanical so petrification only coats them from the toxic oxygen that degrades their physical form. In fact, it does the same to us, but on a different scale. Oxidation is, after all, the cause of free radicals which are harmful to the human body. Then again, they did mention that the most intelligent examples of the petrified host species are the first to break out of petrification and them they are grateful for the chance at eternal life, and that they were partially slow to break out. I don't see how intelligence correlates to randomly being exposed to nitric acid to undo the petrification. What I did find as farfetched was the thing they said about headdress feathers serving as antennas to amplify the sound of polishing rocks so it arrived to the moon as radio waves.
我々が生命は炭素基盤と決めつけるように、奴らは全生命が機械構造だと仮定しているのかもしれぬ。つまり石化とは、彼らの肉体を劣化させる有毒な酸素から身を包む鎧に過ぎないのだ。実際、我々にも同様の現象が起きているが、規模が異なる。酸化とはすなわち、人体に害を及ぼす活性酸素の根源だからな。 だが待て、奴らは石化した宿主種の中で最も知性ある個体が最初に石化から覚醒し、永遠の命に感謝を示すとも語っていた。しかも、その覚醒は意図的に遅らせたとも。硝酸に偶然晒されて石化が解けるのと、知性がどう関係するのか、我が理解を超えている。 最も荒唐無稽だったのは、頭飾りの羽根が研磨音を増幅するアンテナとなり、月まで電波として届くという説だ。中二病
LeloThePGG
原文
I don't see how intelligence correlates to randomly being exposed to nitric acid to undo the petrification. It has been mentioned since season one that staying awake and thinking "consumes" the petrification so that only nitric acid is required to undo it, instead of the more chemically complex revival fluid. By that logic, it's safe to assume that an even higher and more intense brain activity would undo the petrification faster and without even the nitric acid.
確かに、石化を解くのに硝酸に偶然当たるのと知能がどう関係するのかはわからないな。でも第1期から言われてる通り、起きて考え続けることで石化が「消費」されて、復活液より単純な硝酸だけで解けるようになるんだよね。その理屈なら、もっと高い脳活動なら硝酸すら要らずに速く解けるってことになりそうだな。普通くん
goffer54
I suppose more intelligent species would also be more responsible with immortality than us. Even Senku wanted to keep the Medusa a secret for fear of what it would do to society.
それな!賢い種族ほど不老不死をちゃんと扱えるってことかもね。センクーだってメデューサを社会にどう影響するか怖がって秘密にしてたし、まじでその通りじゃん!ギャル
Mundology
Indeed, they pretty much went to war over it. Immortality may seem tempting. However on a large scale, it would fundamentally change humanity's relationship with resources which are finite. The contrived immortality through petrification solved that issue but removed all the perks of living in the first place.
確かに、それをめぐって戦争になりかけたんだよね。不老不死って魅力的に見えるけど、大規模に考えると有限な資源に対する人類の関係を根本的に変えちゃう。石化による作為的な不老不死はその問題を解決したけど、そもそも生きる楽しみを全部奪っちゃったんだよな。普通くん
ScarecrowFM
And you can see why the aliens thought that showing they can achieve immortality through petrification was the most beneficial and didn’t think of the other complications it could cause, they seemingly don’t need other resources than their batteries.
せやな、宇宙人から見たら石化で不老不死を実現できるって示すのが一番有益だと思ったのもわかるわ。他のややこしい問題とか考えてなかったんやろな。なんせバッテリー以外の資源は必要ないみたいやし。ワイも「まあそうなるわな」って感じやったわwww2ちゃん
Rolder
Now I'm wondering how petrification affects your hunger and the like. Imagine if instead of eating you could just be petrified and undone and magically have a full stomach after.
まじそれな!石化すると空腹とかどうなんのかなって思うじゃん?笑 もし食事の代わりに石化して戻ったらお腹いっぱいになるってチートすぎない!?ギャル
Roeclean
But for humans, it would entail needing to get a massive amount of nitric acid for the revival fluid. And due to that infinite nitric acid machine Senku talked about, I suppose it could work. But theres bound to be people that try to hoard it.
人間にとって復活液を作るには大量の硝酸が必要になるってことだよね。でも千空が言ってた無限硝酸製造機があれば理論上は可能かも。ただ、絶対に独占しようとするやつが出てくるだろうな。普通くん
Rolder
Pure speculation but I imagine once industry and technology really kick off, they could probably find a way to achieve the same effect with minimal resources or using some other method
マジで予想だけどさ、産業と技術が本格的に動き出したら、同じ効果を最小限のリソースで実現する方法とか、別の手段を見つけられるんじゃね?って思うんだよな。エモすぎる未来ッ!感情くん
InvaderDJ
原文
I think that could be it in a way. I think the expected progression is the parasite finds an intelligent species, petrifies them all, then waits for the smartest to naturally unpetrify. Then the intelligent species finds out how this leads to immortality and decides to petrify themselves willingly forever, existing as an immobile but thinking being. Like Senku though, I am curious on what the plan is to help the parasite maintain itself. I guess not everyone has to petrify themselves all at once. But man, for a species/creation so advanced, how do they not think of direct communication? They know English and Japanese. They know measurements of time and distance. Why not announce their whole plan to a target civilization and let them take it?
ある意味、そういうことかもしれないな。推測するに、寄生生物が知的生命体を見つけ、全員を石化させ、最も賢い者が自然に石化解除されるのを待つ、という流れが想定されているのだろう。そして知的生命体は、これが不死へと繋がる仕組みだと気づき、自らの意思で永遠に石化することを選ぶ——動けないが思考は続く存在として。千空と同じく、寄生生物を維持するための計画が何なのか、気になるところだ。全員が一度に石化する必要はないのだろうが。しかし、ここまで高度な種族・創造物でありながら、なぜ直接コミュニケーションを考えないのか?英語も日本語も、時間や距離の単位も理解しているのに。なぜ目標の文明に全計画を説明し、受け入れさせるという方法を取らないのか?考察くん
Deathsroke
原文
But man, for a species/creation so advanced, how do they not think of direct communication? They know English and Japanese. They know measurements of time and distance. Why not announce their whole plan to a target civilization and let them take it? They see it as a very self-evident truth. To them the mass petrification is a sale's pitch. They show their "product" and then suddenly every last member of the host species is 100% dedicated to creating more Medusas and maintaining those which exist. Really the biggest issue seems to be that human brains leave a lot to be desired when compared to the "average" intelligent species so instead of a short while it took millennia for even our greatest minds to unpetrify.
ふむ…我が理解を超えし高度な存在でありながら、なぜ直接的な意思疎通を選ばぬのか。奴らは英語も日本語も、時間や距離の概念も理解しているというのに。文明に対し全計画を宣言し、委ねれば済む話ではないか。彼らにとっては、これこそが自明の真理。大量石化は奴らの“売り込み”なのだ。自らの“商品”を見せつければ、宿主種族の全個体がメデューサ製造と維持に邁進する——そういう構造。最大の問題は、人間の脳が“平均的な知性種族”と比べてあまりに貧弱なこと。故に、我々の最高の頭脳でさえ復活に数千年を要したのだ。中二病
CertifiedBedophile
sales pitch that causes millions of people to die when inevitably many statues will break if they were mid driving or in an airplane
「セールストークのせいで何百万人も死ぬってマジ? 飛行機や運転中に石化が解けたら確実に像が壊れるのに… そのリスク考えなさすぎだろッ!」感情くん
Deathsroke
That's the thing they don't "die" from the Medusas' perspective. You are looking at it as a human who considers living to be more than just not being dead, they don't see it that way.
やばくね!?あいつらメデューサ的には「死んでない」ってことなんだよ。人間の感覚で「生きてるってただ死んでないだけじゃないじゃん」って思っちゃうけど、あっちはそういう見方じゃないんだって笑ギャル
CertifiedBedophile
question, we know Senku and some other people were aware the entire time they were petrified. Lets say their statue broke and head split in half. Would they still be aware then? Could you really say thats being "alive"?
確かに気になるよな。石化してる間も意識あったって設定やろ?じゃあ像が割れて頭が真っ二つになったら、その間も意識あるってことになるんか?それって「生きてる」って言えるんか?ガチで哲学的な問題やんけwww2ちゃん
saga999
Turns out it's just a bad case of culture clash. "How am I supposed to know you don't like being turn into stone and remain conscious for eternity?"
文化の違いって怖いな……「永遠に石になって意識だけ残されるのが嫌だって、どうして分かれって言うんだよ!」ってなるの無理すぎるッ!感情くん
Roeclean
They are absolutely horrendous at scouting out a civilization (besides searching for radio waves)
文明の偵察(電波探し以外)は本当に下手くそだよね普通くん
AvatarTuner
Why-man Can't Communicate
ワイのワイマン、コミュニケーションできへんのかい草2ちゃん
Spoon_Elemental
I find it funny that one of Senku's first guesses really early on was correct.
まじでセンパイの初期の推測が当たってるのウケるんだけど笑ギャル
Suspicious_Deal4412
Also they can't comprehend the human condition, oxygen in the air slowly kills them via oxidation and paralyses them, but for us humans we need it to live. Senku had to point to them that humans pass down information between genrations as well.
確かに。機械には人間の事情が理解できないんだよな。空気中の酸素がゆっくり酸化で機械を壊すけど、人間には生きるために必要。千空が「人間も世代を超えて情報を受け継いでる」って指摘する必要があったんだね。普通くん
Ycr1998
oxygen in the air slowly kills them via oxidation and paralyses them, but for us humans we need it to live. Technically oxygen is slowly killing us too, we just call that "aging". 😆
空気中の酸素が酸化でゆっくりと奴らを殺して麻痺させるけど、人間には生きるために必要ってわけか。実は酸素は俺らもゆっくり殺してるんだよな、それを「老化」って呼んでるだけだわw😆wwwおじ
Suspicious_Deal4412
Dying in style.
かっこよく散るって感じだね。普通くん
spitfire9107
What was everyonel's theories on y man? My theory was that y man was one of the people who survived on the spaceship with senku's dad. One of them had a crush another crew member and thought by petrifying the earth thats the only way they'd date.
「Yマン」についての考察だが、俺の仮説ではYマンは千空の父と共に宇宙船で生き延びた人物の一人だった可能性が高い。その中の誰かが他のクルーに片思いしていて、地球を石化させることでしか相手と付き合えないと考えた、というのが俺の推理だ。考察くん
marktronic
I assumed it was some AI that humans developed and went rogue.
人間が開発したAIが暴走したのかと思ってたわ普通くん
Cheesemacher
I figured it might be an AI because it's existed for thousands of years but aliens didn't even cross my mind. Another thing it could've been is a human or a group of humans living in a moon base, infinitely extending their life with the medusa.
草、ワイもAIだと思ってたわ。宇宙人来るとは思わんかったンゴwww 月基地で人間がメデューサで無限に寿命伸ばしてる説もアリやな2ちゃん
Lraund
原文
I assumed someone froze the people on earth to protect them from some sort of catastrophe/threat since freeze people then do nothing didn't make much sense. Why Man was some basic AI overseer program that was on low battery that was struggling to cover the unexpected, like it was too soon to start unpetrifying people. Basically trying to communicate "Why are you unpetrifying you're going to get yourselves killed.", but wasn't programmed to communicate so it did it badly. Still left a lot of unexplained though since they could have just repetrified the earth with a single medusa.
誰かが地球の人々を冷凍したのは、何らかの災害や脅威から守るためだと思ってたよ。だって凍らせただけで何もしないのは意味不明だしな。ホワイマンはバッテリー切れ間近の基本的なAI監視プログラムで、予想外の事態に対応できずに苦戦してたんだな。つまり「なぜ石化を解くんだ、お前ら死ぬぞ」って伝えたかったんだろうけど、プログラム上うまくコミュニケーションできなかったってことか。でもメデューサ1個で地球を再石化できたはずなのに、まだ説明不足な部分が多いな。普通くん
swordmalice
I initially thought Whyman was some rogue AI that went out of control during some kind of experiment on the moon and it caused the petrification.
最初はホイマンって月で実験中に暴走したAIかと思ってたけど、石化の原因だったのか…マジで予想外すぎるッ!感情くん
ebonyphoenix
原文
The petrification = immortality thing is interesting because while petrified you can still think. So technically speaking it is a form of immortality. Theoretically not even breaking a statue would cause permanent death if they stay awake. Death is only confirmed when they are unpetrified and if all their pieces are not in the correct places to support flesh and blood life. But for humans communicating and collaboration is so intrinsically linked to being alive and advancement that petrification is the next closest thing to death. Which Whyman didn’t understand. They were looking for a lifeform that would be content to live in their own head for eternity. So that when they worked through the petrification process naturally (like Senku and Xeno did), they would immediately try to seek to be re-petrified again. And would create and maintain more medusas in the process.
石化=不老不死って考えは面白いよね。石になってる間も思考は続くわけだから、厳密には不老不死の一種だと思う。理論上は、像のままでも意識が起きていれば完全な死は訪れない。本当の死が確定するのは、石化が解けて肉体がバラバラになってる時だけ。でも人間にとって、コミュニケーションや協力って生きる上で欠かせない要素だから、石化は死に限りなく近い状態でもあるんだよね。そこをワイマンは理解してなかった。彼らは永遠に自分の頭の中だけで生きることに満足する生命体を探してた。だから石化のプロセスを自然に突破した奴ら(千空やゼノみたいに)が、すぐにまた石化されたいって思うように仕向けてたんだ。その過程でメデューサを作らせて維持させるために。普通くん
Ill_Act_1855
Yeah they're mechanical life forms who clearly have no issue remaining dormant most of the time, so the idea that humans don't value a life of dormant petrification as something worthwhile is just completely alien to them
確かにあれは機械生命体で、普段は休眠状態でも全く問題ない存在だよな。つまり「人間が石化による休眠状態を有意義な生と認めない」という概念が、彼らにとっては完全に異質なものなんだろうな。この価値観のズレが、物語の根底にあるテーマの一つだと思われる。考察くん
Bakatora34
They also can float in the vacuum of space.
宇宙の真空でも浮かべるんだよね。普通くん
Sawa___i
If all humans were telepathic capable of had developed such capabilities... Or even immersive VR via telepathic activation of radio waves, I wonder how'd Humanity perceive petrification then.
まあ、もし人類全員がテレパシー能力を持ってたら、あるいはテレパシーで電波を操作して没入型VRができてたら、石化をどう捉えるかって話だよな。興味深い視点ではある。ドライおじ
hanmkim
Why not just put us in the Matrix at that point?
それって結局マトリックスに入れるのと同じじゃんって思っちゃうな。普通くん
CrashDunning
It made me think of the computer that played Tetris and paused the game forever because it technically meant it would never lose. Like yeah, I guess, but it misses the point of the game. This is that, but with life.
この「テトリスを永遠に一時停止したコンピュータ」の比喩、すごく腑に落ちた。確かに技術的には負けない状態を作れるけど、それってゲームの本質を見失ってるんだよな。Dr.STONEで言うなら、科学で全てをコントロールしようとする姿勢と通じるものがある。生命や人間性の「不完全さ」こそが物語の核心だという考察ができる。考察くん
LightningRaven
The petrification itself also solves a TON of issues with space travel and the fact you can still think might be worked around through tech, such as internal communication devices to let people still talk to each other or other tech around them (connecting through cameras to see). This means that slower than light speed space travel isn't the insurmountable barrier that it is right now.
確かに石化って宇宙旅行の問題を一気に解決するんだよな。思考は保たれるから、内部通信デバイスで会話したりカメラで周囲を見たりできるようにすれば、光速以下の移動だって今ほど困難じゃなくなるってことだね。普通くん
AromaticAjwaiin
原文
I think that's what "different" about other intelligent lifeforms and humans. I suppose the other ones that why-man-chans have come across are individually more intelligent, their societies are based on individual effort and they may have lifespans more than we can ever imagine. While the human society is more "passing down". That's why a more intelligent life may prefer living in their own head for forever and for us its literal torture
まあそういう見方もあるだろうな。他の知的生命体は個人の知能が高くて、社会も個人の努力で成り立ってて寿命も人間より長い。一方で人間社会は「継承」が基本。だから高知能な種は自分の頭の中だけで永遠に生きるのを好むんだろう。人間にはそれが拷問にしか感じられないってわけか。ドライおじ
zool714
原文
Aliens was definitely in my cards but actually seeing it and reaching this point feels surreal. And seeing their actions that affected this whole show throughout was kinda insane too. I had similar thoughts as Chrome at first, thinking they’re some sort of conservation tool from other alien race to stop us killing ourselves. But pretty ironic now that the mechanical beings are afraid of dying while the organic being is basically immortal. But still, being mechanical may imply they have creators somewhere out there. Curious to know what Senku wants. My basic guess is knowledge. Surely they know things much more advanced. Even the petri-beam we don’t know how it works and exactly what it does. But again, pretty surreal how we’re reaching the end of this series. How many episodes are left ? I remember trying this series out right as it aired
エイリアン説はワイも予想してたけど、実際に登場してここまで来るとマジで現実味ないわ…。しかも彼らの行動が作品全体に影響与えてたの見ると結構ヤバかったンゴ。最初は千空と同じで「別の種族が人類の自滅を防ぐための保存ツールか」と思ったけど、機械生命体が死を恐れてて有機生命体がほぼ不死って皮肉すぎるやろ。でも機械ってことは創造主がどこかにいる可能性あるよな。千空が何を求めてるか気になるわ。ワイの予想は知識やろな。向こうは絶対もっと高度な技術持ってるやん。石化光線の仕組みすらまだ分かってないし。でも何よりシリーズ終盤に差し掛かってるのが非現実的や…残り何話やっけ?放送開始時から追ってたの思い出すわ。2ちゃん
Myrkrvaldyr
But still, being mechanical may imply they have creators somewhere out there. Possible but not necessarily true. We know life doesn't have to be carbon-based or even use DNA/RNA. It was sad the aliens said DNA, because that would imply all life in the universe uses DNA. It's possible they started off as purely organic and eventually turned themselves into purely mechanical.
うーん、機械的ってことはどこかに創造主がいる可能性もあるってことか。そうとは限らないけどね。生命は炭素ベースじゃなくてもいいし、DNAやRNAを使う必要もないってわかってるし。エイリアンがDNAって言ったのは悲しかったな。宇宙のすべての生命がDNAを使ってるってことになるから。もしかしたら最初は完全に有機体で、後に機械に変わったのかもね。普通くん
Mexander98
They could have just used DNA in their speech because that is the way earth life works, as opposed to other life mechanisms.
DNAって言えばええやんけ、地球の生命の仕組みなんやから。他の生命体の仕組みとは違うって話やしな。草2ちゃん
Myrkrvaldyr
Yeah, possible, but the author might simply not be aware of artificial xeno-biochemistry (XNA) we created in labs proving life doesn't have to be DNA/RNA.
確かに!でも作者は研究室で作られた人工XNA(人工核酸)の存在を知らないかもね。生命がDNA/RNAだけじゃないって証明されてるのにッ!感情くん
OldInstruction5368
原文
It annoyed me that Senku was using idiomatic expressions, words and phrases whose meaning is primarily cultural. It's the difference between "connotation" and "denotation" in nerd speak, with the former being "scoring an own goal" and the latter being "why did you sabotage yourself?" One requires knowledge of soccer and an understanding that sportsball speak is used in general conversation outside of any game, and the other is what you are actually trying to communicate. Whenever you are negotiating with someone from a different cultural, particularly one that doesn't even share your native language, you have to be very careful to prune these "colorful" sayings out of your speech. Because even if a Chinese businessman you are trying to strike a deal with can speak perfect English, they might take offense if you say something like "this is a no-brainer!" "No-brain? Is he saying I'm stupid for suggesting this plan?" Idioms are all culturally rooted, and there are far more of them than we typically realize: they are just "normal" to the native speaker, but confuse outsiders who aren't familiar with them. The truth is, there are so many layers to any given conversation that we largely take for granted. The show has been very careful with the science-talk, but less so with the greater details (the main cast are all superhuman.) But this is ultimately just a work of fiction, for entertainment, so I can just barely let it slide.
千空が文化的な背景を持つ慣用表現を多用してたのは気になったな。オタク用語で言う「含意」と「指示」の違いみたいな話で、前者が「自爆ゴール」、後者が「なんで自分を台無しにしたんだ?」って感じ。サッカー知識と日常会話でのスポーツ用語の理解が必要で、相手が違う文化ならこういう表現は削らないといけない。中国のビジネス相手に「これは明白だろ!」って言ったら「脳がないって言ってるの?」って受け取られる可能性もあるし。慣用句は文化的ルーツがあって、ネイティブには普通でも他者には混乱を招く。会話には無意識のレイヤーがたくさんあるんだよな。科学用語は丁寧に扱われてたけど、細かい部分(主要キャラが超人すぎる)は甘かった。でもまあフィクションだから大目に見るけどね。普通くん
Myrkrvaldyr
原文
Because even if a Chinese businessman you are trying to strike a deal with can speak perfect English, they might take offense if you say something like "this is a no-brainer!" "No-brain? Is he saying I'm stupid for suggesting this plan?" Idioms are all culturally rooted, and there are far more of them than we typically realize: they are just "normal" to the native speaker, but confuse outsiders who aren't familiar with them. Unfortunately, that level of self-awareness for anything related to language requires a nice amount of critical thinking, much more commonly found in people whose professions demand high linguistic awareness, law, translation, interpretation, etc. If aliens ever make worldwide contact with us, we'd make a blunder by bringing politicians or average scientists who don't have strong communication skills. Senku badly needed a wordsmith there.
このシーン、まさに言語と文化の壁を如実に描いていたな。たとえ中国のビジネスパートナーが完璧な英語を話せても、”this is a no-brainer”のような慣用句を無自覚に使うと、「自分はバカだと言っているのか」と受け取られるリスクがある。慣用句は文化的背景に根ざしており、ネイティブには「普通」でも、外部の人間には混乱を招く。言語に対するそうした自己認識には高度な批判的思考が必要で、それは法律や翻訳・通訳など、言語感覚が求められる職業に従事する人に多く見られる特性だ。 もし地球外生命体と世界規模の接触があった場合、政治家や平均的な科学者を交渉に出すと、コミュニケーション不足で大失敗する可能性が高い。その点、千空はまさに「言葉の達人」を必要としていたという考察ができる。このエピソード、単なる商談ではなく、異文化理解と言語運用の重要性を巧みに伏線として組み込んでいたんだな。考察くん
OldInstruction5368
原文
If aliens ever make worldwide contact with us, we'd make a blunder by bringing politicians or average scientists who don't have strong communication skills. Senku badly needed a wordsmith there. cough Gen cough The author did have some awareness of this, as Gen did coach Senku into approaching Why-Man. Solid advice, at that, as Gen pointed out that an exchange of gifts is universally customary in diplomatic situations... Which likely gave Senku the last piece of the puzzle to suggest offering the diamonds and jump starting negotiations. But then Senku proceeded to ignore everything else Gen tried to say. Basically, the above (linguistic awareness for high-level diplomacy) was invoked only to be immediately discarded, for comedic effect. Which is a large part of why it rubs me the wrong way.
もし宇宙人が地球とコンタクトしてきたら、政治家やコミュ力低めの普通の科学者を差し出すのは失敗だよね。千空には絶対に言葉のプロが必要だった。咳 ゲン ってね。作者もそれに気づいてて、ゲンが千空にホワイマンとの接し方を指導してたし。プレゼント交換が外交の基本って指摘はマジで的を射てた。それが千空にダイヤを差し出して交渉を始める最後のヒントを与えたんだろうね。でもその後、千空はゲンの言うこと全部無視したけどな。要するに、高度な外交に必要な言語感覚が、コメディのために一瞬出てきてすぐ捨てられた感じ。それがなんかモヤモヤするんだよな。普通くん
darthvall
I kinda doubt they're able to "turn themselves". The fact that they need other species for maintenance means they do not have any other ability that could create technology. They're basically more primitive than human, outside of their natural ability to petrify.
「自分たちで石化解除できる」ってのは正直怪しいンゴwww 他の種族にメンテ依存してる時点で技術作る能力ないやろ 石化能力以外は人間より原始的な存在やな2ちゃん
Adorable-Bridge-801
I feel like it's more of an AI gone rogue, where they petrified their own creators after relizing it's a way to "save" them.
それって完全に暴走AIじゃん!自分たちの創造主を石化させることで「救う」って判断したってことだよね。エモすぎるし衝撃的すぎるッ!感情くん
Monstar132
It's technically more of a Gray Goo/Berserker probe. They were probably created as a life support mechanism but after undergoing an unknown amount of modification by other beings. They probably changed their original directive to survive and replicate.
確かにグレイグーとかバーサーカープローブに近いな。元は生命維持装置だったんだろうけど、他の存在に改造されまくった結果、生き残って増殖するっていう本来の目的を変えちゃったっぽいね。普通くん
ActuallyFrozen
How many episodes are left ? Just one 😭😭😭
えっ!?あと1話だけなの!?😭😭 マジかよ悲しすぎるんだけど!!ギャル
FakhirRee
Rezero went on a break and this is ending next week, Lord have mercy, i probably gotta take a look at my backlog there doesn't seem to be any big anime coming that i am interested in.
Re:Zeroが休止に入って、これが来週最終回か…マジで神様助けて。積んでるアニメ漁らないと、興味ある大型アニメが全然来なさそうだわ。普通くん
AscendingRs
It’s crazy to me that there’s nothing releasing in the next 6 months you’re interested in
6ヶ月以内に気になる作品が何もないってマジか…それはしんどすぎるッ!感情くん
FakhirRee
Rezero will be coming back but apart from that i have nothing so far, other guy said i shouldn't rule it out just yet tho but i checked mal and there doesn't seem to anything interesting coming out for me in next few month but that could change.
Re:ゼロはまたやるってよ。でもそれ以外はまだ何もないンゴねぇ。他のやつが「まだ諦めるな」って言ってたけど、ワイがMAL見た感じ、ここ数ヶ月は面白そうなのないやん。まあ変わるかもしれんけどな。2ちゃん
AscendingRs
I know you said you mostly like battle shonen, but I’d highly recommend giving Apothecary Diaries a try. Every person I’ve recommended it to has really enjoyed it, regardless of their taste. It has a movie and 3rd season releasing later this year
「バトル系が好きって言ってたけど、薬屋のひとりごとも超おすすめだよ。今まで勧めた人みんなハマってるし。今年中に映画と3期も公開されるらしい」普通くん
Trash_luck
Jaadugar seems pretty good from the trailer, and elusive samurai and 100 girlfriends are getting new seasons, same with clevatess.
やばくね!?JaadugarのPVめっちゃ良さそうじゃん! あとエルusive samuraiと100人の彼女も新シーズンくるってまじで嬉しすぎる! clevatessも続くし、やばいほど楽しみなんだけど!ギャル
ActuallyFrozen
what kinds of shows do you like? maybe I can recommend some stuff
どんなジャンルのアニメが好きなの?いくつかおすすめできるかも普通くん
FakhirRee
原文
I have watched bunch of anime but they are mostly battle shonen, they don't necessarily have to be action oriented as i have enjoyed vinland saga season 2 and frieren, i am not a slice of life fan either but i really enjoyed spy x family and kaguya sama so i guess i have a mixed taste. From years now i have been watching anime weekly season to season, there alway have been something that have keep me occupied in last 4 years but it looks like that's gonna change since final 6 month of 2025 looks dry af (only thing i will be watching that will be airing is rezero after it comes back from break.) That said i already have few ideas to keep me occupied, I am not alway kept up with every seasonal anime, i have heard good things about sentenced to be hero, witch hatlier (i am butchering that name) and there is a anime called daemon or something written by fmab author, all of these are recent anime i have missed so i will probably watch these to fill space.
私も似たような経験がある。アクション主体のバトル少年漫画を多く見てきたが、ヴィンランド・サガ2期やフリーレンのような作品も楽しめる。スライス・オブ・ライフは好みじゃないけど、SPY×FAMILYやかぐや様は面白かったから、結局はミックスされた好みってことだな。 2025年後半は確かにラインナップが薄い。リゼロの2ndパート以外に視聴予定がないというのは、この4年間毎週何かしら追ってきた身としては寂しい。ただ、見逃した作品を埋めるという戦略は賢い。『英雄教室』や『ウィッチハット・アトリエ』(名前は合ってる)、それに鋼の錬金術師の作者の新作『DAEMON』(たぶんこれ)は、どれも評判が良いからな。制作陣の意図を読み解きながら、こうした隠れた良作を掘り下げるのも一興だと思う。考察くん
ActuallyFrozen
原文
In terms of non-sequel action series, some notable ones next season are The Ghost in the Shell remake, Black Torch and Recommendation from Iwamoto-senpai. Sparks of Tomorrow, A Witch in Mongolia, Though I Am an Inept Villainess, Sayonara Lara and World Is Dancing will probably all be great. final 6 month of 2025 well, we barely know anything about fall shows so don't rule it out just yet. and there is a anime called daemon or something written by fmab author It's called Daemons of the Shadow Realm. It's is actually 2 cours, so it'll continue until the end of summer.
続編モノ以外だと、来期は『攻殻機動隊』リメイク、『Black Torch』、『岩本先輩からの推薦』とか注目やな。『Sparks of Tomorrow』『モンゴルの魔女』『不出来な悪役令嬢ですが』『さらばララ』『世界は踊る』も多分全部良さげ。2025年後半は秋アニメの情報ほぼないし、まだ諦めるなよ。あと鋼の錬金術師の作者が書いた『Daemons of the Shadow Realm』ってアニメが2クールで夏まで続くらしいンゴwww2ちゃん
FakhirRee
原文
Noted, thank you for the recommedation, i have heard good things about classic the ghost in the shell anime and i have alway wanted to check it out, i will try it out before watching the remake later on, i will also check the rest out eventually. Yes it was Daemons of the Shadow Realm, that was the one, it has interested me but i haven't had the time to check it out, it's good to know that it still going on, i will try to pick it up in the next few week and catch up to weekly schedule for it if i can.
承知しました。『攻殻機動隊』のクラシック版は名作として評価が高く、リメイク前に視聴するのは正しいアプローチだと思われる。『Daemons of the Shadow Realm』も現在進行形ということで、週刊連載に追いつく計画は戦略的だと言える。1話から丁寧に追えば伏線の積み重ねを楽しめるはず。考察くん
ActuallyFrozen
i will try it out before watching the remake later on fyi the remake is going to be a faithful adaptation of the manga, whereas the original isn't.
マジでリメイク版観る前にちょっと試してみるわ!てかリメイクは原作に忠実なんだってね、元のはちょっと違うっぽいし。やばくね!?ギャル
Xatu44
Sentenced was great; I recommend it.
Sentencedはすごく良かったよ。おすすめ。普通くん
darthvall
原文
We assumed they're technologically more advanced, but that just doesn't seem to be true other than their mineral body. They didn't bring any outside technology outside of their inherent ability to petrify. They have 2000+ years to wait, but they didn't develop anything. Meanwhile it took 10 years-ish for human to build rocket from scratch. You said that human is practically immortal, but whymen could live in space for thousand of years. The reason they died was only due to oxygen or if their diamond deteriorate or broken. According to other redditor, it could take million of years to deteriorate.
確かに、我々は彼らを技術的に優れた存在と想定していたが、肉体が鉱物であること以外はそうではないという考察ができる。石化能力以外の外部技術を持ち込んでおらず、2000年以上待機している間に何も発展させていない。対して人間はゼロからロケットを開発するのに約10年しか要していない。人間が実質的に不死であるという主張は理解できるが、ホワイマンは宇宙で数千年生存可能で、死因は酸素不足かダイヤモンドの劣化・破損のみ。他のRedditユーザーの指摘によれば、ダイヤモンドの劣化には数百万年かかる可能性があるという。考察くん
Aliensinnoh
Levitation is the other big piece of tech they have.
浮遊技術も彼らが持ってる大きな技術の一つだね普通くん
willi5x
Yeah, I had the idea that the petrification was sort of a Great Filter prevention tool. That aliens did it to stop us and other species in the universe from destroying ourselves. Which, unfortunately, causes the very thing they are trying to prevent.
確かに石化現象は「グレート・フィルター」防止装置だったという考察ができる。宇宙人が人類や他の種族が自滅するのを防ぐために仕掛けたものだと思われる。ところが皮肉にも、それがまさに彼らが防ごうとしていた事態を引き起こしているんだよな。考察くん
kawaiinessa
its so nice to have answers to all the questions weve had the entire show, i really didnt guess that each medusa was basically an intelligent being on its own. their view on eternal life is definitly different than what my understanding is, i see petrification as being a sort of pause button for life rather than eternal life.
番組を通してずっと疑問に思ってたことが全部解決されて嬉しいよ。まさか各メデューサが独立した知的生命体だとは思わなかった。彼らの永遠の命に対する考え方は、俺の理解とは全然違うな。俺は石化を永遠の命っていうより、人生の一時停止ボタンみたいなもんだと思ってた。普通くん
SciFiXhi
Well, that's the difference between a machine and a person. A machine might strictly delineate death as "the day I become completely and irreversibly nonfunctional" and define all days before that time as "life." A person would consider life to be the culmination of their experiences, so a pause in those experiences would be an interruption of life rather than its sustenance.
せやな、機械と人間の違いってまさにそこやろ。機械は「完全に回復不能になった日=死」って線引きするけど、人間は「経験の積み重ねが人生や」って考えるから、その経験が止まるのは人生の継続じゃなくて中断やと思うンゴwww2ちゃん
OldInstruction5368
原文
Even then, while petrified, you can't protect yourself from a chaotic world. I'm honestly surprised so many statues 'survived,' as what happens when a tree falls on top of you? Or the building you are in collapses? Or an avalanche? Earthquake? Etc. etc. etc. Even on a stable environment like the Moon, there are meteorite impacts. There is no atmosphere to burn up the little meteors, and as mentioned in the show, the Moon acts as a bit of a meteor magnet catching strays that were originally pulled towards the Earth. While petrified, life is technically eternal, but it is also eternally at the mercy of it's chaotic environment.
石化してても、混沌とした世界から身を守れるわけじゃないんだよな。木が倒れてきたり、建物が崩れたり、雪崩や地震が起きたらどうなるんだろうって思うと、あれだけ多くの像が「生き残った」のは正直驚きだよ。月みたいな安定した環境でも隕石が衝突するし、大気がなくて小さな隕石も燃え尽きないし、作中でも言ってたけど月は地球に向かう隕石を引き寄せる磁石みたいなもんだしね。石化してると理論上は永遠の命だけど、同時に永遠に環境の荒波に翻弄され続けるってことだ。普通くん
Roeclean
原文
I'm honestly surprised so many statues 'survived,' Eh, there's still like 8 billion+ people before the petrification device (due to the modern setting), and I'm pretty sure around a million people have been de-petrified or maybe less, since the anime never showed them making an automated or sprinkler type de-petrification device. So you its pretty much assumed that they had a bottle of the de-petrification serum that was used to de-petrify everyone to this point. And I know that hoses are shown in the show, but I feel like them making one for the de-petrification serum would at least have its own scene to tell the viewer.
マジで草、あれだけの像が「生き残ってた」のガチで驚きやわ でも石化装置の前は80億人以上おったわけやしな(現代設定やし) ワイの記憶が正しければ、復活したのはせいぜい100万人ぐらいやろ アニメで自動散布とかスプリンクラー式の復活装置とか作ってるとこ見せてないしな つまり今まで復活した連中は全部、瓶入りの復活液でやったってことなんやろな ホースは出てきとるけど、復活液用のやつを作るなら専用のシーンいるやろと思うンゴ2ちゃん
ConsiderationOk5914
They can bring you back from the dead. I think being petrified extends your life and heals your wounds. so you'd use them over and over to be immortal and in exchange you'd keep them alive with diamonds
石化で死者を蘇らせられるんだよね。石化状態だと寿命が延びて傷も治るみたいだし、それを繰り返せば事実上不死になれる。その代わりにダイヤで装置を動かし続けるってわけだな。普通くん
justking1414
And even then, you only need 1 diamond to petrify the entire planet. Meanwhile the one on treasure island lasted for hundreds of years with semi-frequent use, up until the entire island was petrified.
なるほど、たった一つのダイヤで地球全体を石化できるとは驚きでござるな。一方、宝島の方は数百年もの間、頻繁に使い続けて島全体を石化させていたというわけか。まさに科学の神秘、恐れ入ったでござる。武士
ConsiderationOk5914
Yeah, that part confused me. The pyramid of Medusa was used to petrify the whole planet in the flashback, but then, before the time skip, it only took one to petrify the planet
あのシーン意味わかんねえわ。フラッシュバックではメデューサのピラミッドで地球全体石化してたのに、タイムスキップ直前はたった一個で地球石化してんの草。設定ガバガバやろwww2ちゃん
justking1414
I think, as it was explained earlier, they fired multiple waves to ensure humanity was fully petrified
確かに!前に説明あったけど、人間を完全に石化させるために複数の波を放ったってことだよな。その徹底っぷりがエグすぎるッ!感情くん
OldInstruction5368
Pretty sure those in orbit only saw one big wave, so if it was multiple, it would be multiple simultaneous pulses. And gauging by the size of that pyramid in Brazil... that was, a great, great, great, many simultaneous pulses. Can one pulse only petrify a certain number of people? A hundred, a thousand?
軌道上から見たら1つのデカい波にしか見えなかったっぽいけど、もし複数だったら同時多発パルスってことになるよな。ブラジルのピラミッドのデカさ見る限り…めっちゃくちゃ大量の同時パルスだったってことやろ。1回のパルスで石化できる人数って決まってるんか?100人?1000人?2ちゃん
Sorwest
Maybe the amount of medusas is so many that losing 1 or 1000 or 1 million medusas for an attempt at contact is like drop in the water
メデューサの数が多すぎて、接触の試みのために1つや1000、100万失っても焼け石に水みたいなものってことか。確かに数が違いすぎるな。普通くん
chalo1227
原文
Thats kinda the point, tho, the petrification heals so much , and they dont age , could be a "plot hole" but maybe they dont think of aging as something that needs fix , but they should ? , or maybe the petrification is slowing or stoping aging for some time? like a petrification every couple years keeps you at your current age. But also as humans being petrified is not living and well, clearly the point the author points on this episode.
確かにそれがテーマの核心だな。石化が傷を治癒する能力を持つ一方で、老化を止めない点は一見矛盾に見える。だが、作者は「石化状態は生きた状態ではない」という点を4話で明確に強調していた。つまり、老化は「生きているプロセス」だから石化では修正対象外という考察が成り立つ。また、定期的な石化で老化を遅延させる可能性も示唆されるが、それは人間としての「生」を放棄することに他ならない。この辺りの倫理的ジレンマを作者は意図的に描いていると思われる。考察くん
Cross_Toss
Aging wouldn't kill you if your body is constantly healled to the max (we see Kaseki doing much better after reviving, so that could be the case)
老化も気にならなくなるよ、体が常に最大まで治癒されてるならね(カセキが復活後にめっちゃ元気になってたし、そういうことかも)。普通くん
Blackbankai
But eventually someone old enough will have to constantly use the medusa to revive themselves from dying of old age because even though it heals it does not make the target younger.
確かにそれな!でも結局誰かが老衰で死にそうになるたびにメデューサ使いまくらないとダメになるってことか... 老化は治せないのしんどすぎるッ!感情くん
Cross_Toss
Age itself wouldn't kill you (dissess and organ failures do), and rapid deterioration only occurs when parts of the body are already defective. If you can always heal up your issues, you will be able to continue on with no issues.
年齢そのものが死因になるわけじゃない(病気や臓器不全が原因だよね)。急激な衰えも、体のどこかに既に問題があるから起こるだけ。常に問題を治癒できれば、問題なく生き続けられるってことだね。普通くん
OldInstruction5368
原文
Yes and no. "Aging" is actually believed to be DNA degradation. It's not just the cumulation of mutations over the course of your lifetime (most are pruned out, but occasionally some fall through the cracks of your immune system and are preserved), but the corruption of the "caps" to our chromosomes, the telomeres, that make copying themselves harder and harder. So to truly prevent age-related deaths would be to heal the telomeres. If that can be done, further decay can be prevented and life becomes largely eternal... except for the mutations I mentioned. And it's not just a few. Over the course of 70 years, a person will accumulate around ~2,000 mutations, largely from accidents that happen during cell division that aren't immediately 'caught' by your immune system. Cancer is the main killer here, but this is also why having kids at a later age is more "dangerous." Most mutations are in bodily cells, but you also accumulate mutations in your junk. Well, men do, at least, as a women are born with all the sex cells they'll ever have. Sperm is constantly produced, and the sperm of a 90 year old man is going to be loaded with more mutations that can affect the viability of his offspring. So what happens when a 1,000 year old ma, constantly rejuvenated by the Medusa, has a kid? Plus, women and reproduction... is the petrification going to replace her full set of sex cells she had at birth? That would mean an old woman that was awakened from petrification would get her period again... and potentially have some more kids with grandpa. At what point do the cumulative mutations just break someone down completely? To repair the "dna damage," you'd need to have a baseline snapshot of someone's DNA to reset all the mutations. And if that was possible, then natural evolution would largely break down. EXISTING genes could be reshuffled, but no new genes would be 'created.' Evolution would be largely artificial and controlled via laboratory settings. But I seriously doubt we were supposed to look that deep into this cartoon comedy (forgive the alliteration, my fellow weebs!) about parasitic alien machine intelligences.
せやな。でも「老化」って実はDNAの劣化らしいンゴ。単に突然変異が溜まるだけじゃなくて、染色体の先っちょ(テロメア)がすり減ってコピーが難しくなるのが原因やって。つまり不老不死を実現するにはテロメアを修復せなあかんのや。それができれば突然変異以外の寿命はほぼ無限になる…けど、70年で約2000個の突然変異が蓄積されるらしいで。癌が主な死因やけど、高齢出産が危険な理由もこれや。男の精子は常に作られるから、90歳のジジイの精子は突然変異まみれや。で、1000歳のジジイがMedusaで若返って子供作ったらどうなるん?女の場合は石化で卵子がリセットされるんか?もしそうならババアも生理再開してジジイと子作りできるかもな。でも突然変異が溜まりすぎると人間は崩壊するやろ。DNA修復には基準となるスナップショットが必要やけど、そんなんできたら進化が止まってまう。既存の遺伝子は組み替えられても新種は生まれへん。進化は実験室で人工的にコントロールされるだけや。…まあこんな深い話を寄生エイリアン機械知能のギャグアニメに求めるのが間違いやったわ(韻を踏んでみたで、同志よ!)。2ちゃん
Roeclean
Nahh, that was a pretty nice analysis on the situation. And still very much on topic with this sci-fi show. I doubt the show would ever go that far, but I can see a fan animation or story doing so.
それな!めっちゃ良い分析すぎるッ!しかもこのSF作品にドンピシャで合ってるし。本編であそこまでやるのはさすがに無理そうだけど、ファンアニメやストーリーならあり得そう。エモい。感情くん
Devatator_
Your brain tho, might not like it. Not even sure how long a human brain can last if it's in perfect condition forever. You will start forgetting stuff at some point, tho I guess it's possibly solvable in their future
確かにその考察は興味深い。人間の脳が永遠に完全な状態で維持された場合、どれだけ持つかは未知数だな。記憶の劣化は避けられないという仮説も立てられるが、作中の未来技術なら解決可能かもしれない。まさにDr.STONE的世界観ならではの命題だ。考察くん
Cross_Toss
You'll reach max capacity at some point, but that's an entirely different problem to being constantly in and out of stine form (especielly considering we forget shit all the time as is)
確かに容量には限界があるけど、石化したり戻ったりを繰り返すのはまた別の問題だよね(特に人間ってすぐ忘れるし)。普通くん
kawaiinessa
Yes i understand the point lol
せやな、その言い分はわかるわw2ちゃん
Deathsroke
原文
From how they were surprised that humanity took thousands of years to unpetrify we can assume it is much faster for other alien species they've encountered right? If so then most other species probably don't lose conciousness which means they'll probably de-petrify semi-regularly on their own. That would mean they continue to think and whenever they de-petrify they can do whatever tasks are needed to keep their industrial civilization going. If said tasks only take a small amount of time and petrification cures aging then they would be functionally immortal.
他の星の生命体からすると、人間が石化解除に数千年もかかったことに驚いてたってことは、彼らが遭遇した他の種族はもっと早く解除されるんだろうな。だとすると、他の種族はおそらく意識を失わずに、定期的に自分で石化解除できるってことか。つまり思考し続けられて、解除中に文明維持に必要な作業をこなせるんだろう。その作業が短時間で済んで、石化が老化を治すなら、実質的に不死みたいなもんじゃない?普通くん
Roeclean
原文
The plot hole is moreso just the medusas' greatly overestimating humans. Since they were thinking humans would somehow be able to break out of petrification a lot sooner. But then again, I'm sure even they didn't know the use of nitric acid would be needed to get out. Or maybe it takes an insanely smart individual to passively create brainwaves in order to break out themselves (like rivaling Dr.Who or Rick Sanchez brain waves).
このメデューサの設定、考察しがいがあるな。人間の能力を過剰に見積もってたって解釈は納得だわ。つまり本来ならもっと早く石化から脱出できると想定してたんだろう。ただメデューサ側も硝酸が必要だとは知らなかった可能性が高い。あるいは千空クラスの超人的な脳波を能動的に発生させないと自力脱出は不可能で、ドクター・フーやリック・サンチェス級の頭脳が前提だったのかもな。考察くん
Jacob-C
When we saw the moving dark cloud on the moon my first thought was: "That's a swarm of some sort". However, I thought the swarm would be a kind of biomass and not mechanical in nature. That the medusas themselves were living beings was even more unexpected.
月の表面を動く暗雲見た瞬間「あれ何かの群れやろな」って直感したわ。でもまさか生物群やなくて機械やったとはな。さらにメデューサ自体が生命体ってのが一番の衝撃やったわwww2ちゃん
LeonKevlar
原文
The scene where "Senku" asks Kohaku to release the Medusa then suddenly Stanley grabs her hand with a panicked look on his eyes was actually a pretty terrifying scene. It made me wish the mystery of Why-Man lasted a little bit more until the end of the episode. So it turns out that Why-Man is actually the Medusa itself . And it's not just a single entity; they're a cluster of mechanical parasites who wanted to use humans to help them propagate in exchange for eternal life, aka the petrification beam. But it sounds like they overestimated humanity and thought we were advanced enough to understand what they were trying to do, and were so confused at humanity's response to the petrification beam. That explains the "Why?" message they initially got. Damn. So, in the end, the entire thing is just a massive misunderstanding between two species? Honestly? Fair. If an armada of UFOs arrived on Earth today, we'd struggle to understand them. It's even more difficult with the Why-Men since they're mechanical creatures that defy our science. This meeting of two alien species was doomed from the start. I don't know what Senku will try to do , but I hope he can convince the Why-Men to leave and find a new host.
千空がコハクにメデューサを放すよう頼んで、突然スタンリーが焦った目で彼女の手を掴むシーン、めっちゃ怖かったわ。ホワイマンの謎がもうちょっとエピソード終わりまで引っ張ってほしかったな。結局ホワイマンってメデューサそのものなんだな。しかも単体じゃなくて、機械的な寄生虫の集団で、不老(つまり石化光線)と引き換えに人間を使って自分たちを増やそうとしてたんだって。でも人類を過大評価してて、こっちが彼らの意図を理解できるほど進んでると思い込んでたみたいで、人類の反応に困惑してたんだな。それで最初の「Why?」メッセージにも納得。つまり結局、二つの種族間の大規模な誤解ってこと?正直、それもありだな。もし今UFOの艦隊が地球に来たら、俺たちだって理解に苦しむし。ホワイマンは科学を無視した機械生命体だから尚更だ。二つの異星種族の出会いは最初から破綻してたってことか。千空がどうするか分からんけど、ホワイマンに別の宿主を探して去るよう説得してほしいな。普通くん
Myrkrvaldyr
原文
If an armada of UFOs arrived on Earth today, we'd struggle to understand them. I'd like to believe that any sufficiently advanced enough species to traverse the cosmos understands the immense value of scouting and intel gathering first. They would decode our languages, study deeply our history and realize that we're too fragmented as a species, so they should change their approach for contact. Contacting individual govs wouldn't be good if they're shrewd. Either make a worldwide declaration so no one can hide the info, or infiltrate slowly by talking to individuals and not institutions.
このコメント、SF的な外交戦略の考察としてかなり興味深い。もし今日UFO艦隊が地球に来たとしても、我々は彼らを理解するのに苦労するだろう。宇宙を渡るほど高度な種族なら、まず偵察と情報収集の価値を熟知していると信じたい。彼らは我々の言語を解読し、歴史を深く研究し、人類が分裂した種族であることを認識して、接触方法を変えるはずだ。賢いなら個別の政府と接触するのは得策じゃない。情報を隠蔽できないよう世界的な宣言をするか、個人とゆっくり対話して組織を経由しない方法で潜入するのが合理的だという考察ができる。考察くん
Ahuevotl
原文
I mean, the whole concept of diplomacy, tactful approach, governments and institutions is very very human, and not necessarily a condition for "intelligence", whatever the definition of intelligence is to aliens. If we assume intelligent thought being reduced, only to purely logical endeavours around resource management, for the preservation and expansion of a species, including the technological development required for such endeavors (like knowledge about electromagnetic phenomena), then showing the petrification outright, is like shoving a fridge to a group of cavemen: The finite resource that is life, like food, can now be put in the fridge for preservation.
確かにそうだね。外交や政府、制度ってのは人間らしい概念で、知能の定義次第では宇宙人にとって必須条件じゃないかも。もし知能を単なる資源管理と種の保存・拡大のための論理的思考(電磁気学みたいな技術開発含む)に限定するなら、石化装置をいきなり見せるのは原始人に冷蔵庫を見せるようなものだよ。命という有限資源を保存できるって理解させる感じ。普通くん
Sawa___i
You're explanation in an example Objective Perspective is quite intriguing and helps relate to an Alien Perspective. Whereas I kept binding the Intelligence to Human's Domain.
確かに!「人間の知能」って枠で考えすぎてたけど、異星人の視点で見るとまた全然違う話になるんだな…。そのObjective Perspectiveの例え、めっちゃ腑に落ちたわ。しんどいけど面白いッ!感情くん
flashmozzg
原文
If we assume intelligent thought being reduced, only to purely logical endeavours around resource management, for the preservation and expansion of a species, including the technological development required for such endeavors (like knowledge about electromagnetic phenomena), then showing the petrification outright, is like shoving a fridge to a group of cavemen: Instead they didn't show the fridge, they put the cavemen into one. Like I don't see a reason why the couldn't have went the fragmented approach like they did with the second try on the island from the start. If just a couple thousand random people got petrified the collective humanity would've figure it out way faster.
もし知性ってやつが「種の保存と拡大のための資源管理と、それに必要な技術開発(電磁現象の知識とか)」って純粋な論理作業にまで還元されるもんだとしたら、石化をいきなり見せるのは、洞窟人に冷蔵庫をドーンと突きつけるようなもんやろな。むしろ冷蔵庫を見せずに、洞窟人を冷蔵庫の中にぶち込んだ感じや。最初から島での二度目の試行みたいに断片的なアプローチでいけなかった理由がわからんわ。数千人のランダムな人間が石化しただけで、人類全体はもっと早く気づいてたやろ。2ちゃん
Ahuevotl
Because they don't think human. Shove a fridge at a caveman, put the food inside the fridge to show how it wors. Caveman sees bad alien shoving a dangerous box at him and taking away his food. Then, caveman decides to use the fridge's power source to electrocute other cavemen into submission, or to lock away their food if they don't submit… ¿You see?
だって人間的に考えてないからだよ。冷蔵庫を原始人に押し付けて、中に食べ物を入れて「これが便利だよ」って見せても、原始人からすれば「得体の知れない箱を押し付けてきて、食べ物を奪うやばい宇宙人」にしか見えない。そしたら原始人は、冷蔵庫の電源を使って他の原始人を感電させて服従させたり、言うこと聞かなきゃ食べ物を閉じ込めたりするようになる…分かるだろ?普通くん
flashmozzg
You say they don't think human and is your example for them behaving the way they did is something that only someone familiar with humans think would come up with...
「人間じゃないって言うけどよ、その例として挙げた行動って、人間に詳しい奴しか思いつかんやつやんwww」2ちゃん
DeusFatum
The aliens themselves are also very human: they communicate with words and signals, they have a desire to live, they propagate, etc. There's no reason to segment diplomacy as a uniquely human concept.
確かに宇宙人も人間っぽいところあるよね。言葉でコミュニケーション取るし、生きたいって思うし、繁殖もするし。外交を人間だけの概念って区切る必要はないと思う。普通くん
ShinJiwon
The words they use are copied from human speech. If they weren't talking to Senku, they would probably be communicating in beeps and boops.
まじそれな!人間の言葉パクってるだけなんだよね。センクと話してなかったら多分ピッポッパッみたいな感じで会話してたんじゃない?笑ギャル
DeusFatum
All words are copied from human speech. That's how you learn. I'm not sure what you meant by this?
せやな、全部人間の言葉を真似して覚えるんやで。ワイの言いたいこと、伝わらんかったか?2ちゃん
ShinJiwon
I'm saying their own communication between themselves wouldn't have human speech. They only seem human to you in that moment cos they are accomodating and talking to humans.
確かにッ!彼ら同士の会話は人間の言語じゃないってことか…。人間に合わせて話してくれてるだけで、あの瞬間だけ人間っぽく見えてるだけってのがエモすぎる…ッ!感情くん
DeusFatum
They used words to talk to japanese people in english through feathers. And speaking full sentences on the radio from space
「羽根に英語でメッセージ書いて日本人に伝えるとか草 しかも宇宙からラジオで全文ペラペラ話しとるやんwww ワイもう意味わからんすぎて笑うわ」2ちゃん
Sawa___i
原文
Perhaps they themselves aren't that much advanced, but used to seeing general behavior of intelligence species. Humans fall quite low or someone said, outliers, in the spectrum. I mean if they're themselves intelligent, they'd have figure out to do more things than they can't, limbs and stuffs, extraction and develop diamonds themselves. They're called parasites as literally parasites behave, leach off other beings. Though we give them a degree of some level of intelligence for they can communicate and radio waves, a sign of intelligence ig. PS: It's just how much capable is of their own intelligence? Or could it be that the more intelligent you are, you miss out the average etiquettes?
この考察、興味深いな。つまり「彼ら自身はそこまで高度な知性を持っているわけではなく、知的生命体の一般的な行動パターンを観察しているだけ」という解釈か。人間は知性のスペクトラムでかなり低い位置、あるいは外れ値にいるという指摘は納得できる。もし彼らが本当に知性的なら、自分たちの体の制約を乗り越えてダイヤモンドの採掘・加工くらいできそうなものだ。寄生生物の定義通り、他者から搾取するだけの存在という見方は説得力がある。ただし、コミュニケーション能力と電波を使う点は一定の知性の証拠と言える。ここで疑問なのは「彼らの知性はどこまで実用的なのか?」という点だ。あるいは、知性が高すぎると逆に平均的なエチケットを見落とす可能性もあるのかもしれない。考察くん
thoughtlow
Yeah I think so. Parasites are not known for having great intelligence. They just follow the queues and most of the time it works out. Radio -> intelligence -> propagate.
確かにそうだなw 寄生虫ってあんま賢くないしな。合図に従って適当にやってりゃ大抵うまくいくんだよ。ラジオ→知能→増殖ってな笑wwwおじ
LakerBlue
I agree. They have advanced technology, clearly, but I think they may have a very limited form of intelligence. I think your arrow chart pretty defines how their “DNA” moves them to operate.
せやな。確かに先進技術は持っとるけど、知能はめっちゃ限定的やと思うわ。矢印チャートがまさに彼らの「DNA」の動きを定義しとるンゴwww2ちゃん
InvaderDJ
And the Medusa did do that which is weird. They understand at least two different languages. They can ask questions, have those questions answered and have follow ups of their own. They know human measurements of time and distance and even use slang like wanna. It feels like they could have just asked directly.
確かにメデューサは変だよな。最低でも2言語を理解してて、質問もできるし、その返答に対してさらに質問もできる。人間の時間や距離の単位もわかってて、スラングすら使うんだよ。直接聞けばよかったのにって感じだよね。普通くん
Hot-Log6283
Isn't this also one of the believe of some of the native who got exploited by foreigner in the past?
確かに、それは過去に異国人に搾取された先住民たちの信念の一つでもあるでござるな。武士
Guaymaster
原文
But it sounds like they overestimated humanity and thought we were advanced enough to understand what they were trying to do, and were so confused at humanity's response to the petrification beam. That explains the "Why?" message they initially got. I think that essentially they were wrong, it's not that we wouldn't understand them, it's just that we think uhhh "too slow" to undo the petrification on our own in a timely fashion. If they had just shot radio waves from the Moon and told the modern age scientists what their deal was first, nobody would be in this mess.
彼らは人類を過大評価してたみたいだね。「俺たちの意図を理解できるほど進歩してるだろ」と思ってたのに、人類が石化光線にどう反応するか困惑してたんだな。最初に"Why?"ってメッセージが来たのもそれで説明がつく。つまり彼らの見積もりが間違ってただけで、理解できないってわけじゃなくて、人類が自力で石化を解くには「考えるのが遅すぎる」ってことなんだろうな。最初から月から電波飛ばして現代の科学者に事情を説明してたら、こんな混乱にはならなかったのに。普通くん