chiaotzu_Tien +1714
スレ主投稿画像
Monobrobe
For a girl that has felt trapped since her father left to become a cyborg, this is the perfect moment for her. It allows her to finally break free of Saturn’s shackles and be the child she truly is. I imagine as she grows older she won’t need this form, or won’t be able to use it anymore.
父親がサイボーグになるために去って以来、閉じ込められた気持ちだった彼女にとって、これは最高の瞬間だ。これでようやく土星の束縛から解き放たれ、本当の自分である子供でいられる。成長するにつれ、この形態は必要なくなるか、使えなくなるんだろうな。+1244
lavmuk
Yeah her being a 12 yr old little girl locked cuz of her illness, then govt is such a strong msg. Even kids aren't free (both literally & metaphoricaly) in this world cuz of current gov
病気で閉じ込められてた12歳の少女が、政府のせいで…ってのは強烈なメッセージだよな。 この世界じゃ、今の政府のせいで子供たちも（文字通り＆比喩的に）自由じゃないんだ。+222
Due-Conflict-7926
No of course she’ll be able to use. She met Nika. Nika is real to her. She experienced a reality where she is most free. There’s no going back when the shackles are broken
いや、絶対使えるようになるって。彼女はニカに出会った。ニカは彼女にとって現実なんだ。最も自由な自分がいる現実を体験した。束縛が壊れたら、もう後戻りはできない。+70
Renegade__OW
原文
You're missing the point of her fruit. It's not that she can do things that are real, it's that she believes she can become these things. Presently, she believes that she can become just like Nika, because Nika is free and she wants to be free. Over time, she'll realize that she can't become like Nika, because freedom isn't Nika, Nika just happens to be free. The wilder her imagination, the stronger her fruit, as she grows older and she gets a firmer grasp on reality, it'll weaken.
彼女の能力の要点を理解してない。 現実のことをできるんじゃなくて、自分はこれになれると信じているんだ。 今は、ニカのように自由になりたいから、ニカのようになれると信じてる。時が経てば、なれないことに気づくかもだけど…+79
online222222
I think you missed the part where Saturn is a curmudgeony old fart who only assumes imagination becomes more narrow with age because he doesn't have any himself. One piece is written by someone in their 50s don't forget. Oda himself is the meta proof you need to know Saturn is full of shit.
サターンがただの偏屈じじいで、自分に想像力がねえからって、年取れば想像力も狭まるって決めつけてる部分を見逃してるんじゃない？OPは50代の人間が書いてるんだぞ。尾田本人が、サターンがデタラメ言ってるってことのメタ的な証拠だ。+53
thtsjustlikeuropnion
原文
>as she grows older and she gets a firmer grasp on reality, it'll weaken. If her reality and strength is based on her imagination, then I would think her imagination is only going to get wilder and more stronger as she gains more experience with her powers. So as she grows older, her imagination is going to continue to grow along with her strength, not weaken. Devil fruit users have a different grasp on reality compared to normal people.
>年を取って現実をしっかり把握するようになれば、弱くなるだろう。 もし彼女の現実と強さが想像力に基づくなら、能力を使う経験を積むほど、想像力はより狂ったように強くなると思うんだが。つまり、成長するほど、彼女の想像力は…+17
Due-Conflict-7926
No you’re missing the point. She didn’t use it to become nika, she used it to become the freest person she could be. She is now free, she has seen Nika. She is with her father. That dream is a reality. That will never go away now.
違う、要点を外してる。彼女はニカになるために使ったんじゃない。自分がなれる最も自由な存在になるために使ったんだ。今や彼女は自由だ。ニカを見た。父親と一緒にいる。あの夢は現実だ。もう二度と消えない。+7
Serbaayuu
It is perfect for Luffy too, as a true liberator, granting other people the ability to become exemplary is what he's always done.
真の解放者であるルフィにとっても完璧なんだ。他者に模範となる存在になれる力を与えるって、彼がいつもやってきたことだ。+4
brodayrec
Was it kind of a strange choice sure but her becoming the version of her that was truly free and in a sorts fufilling her fathers and hers dream I think it is a cool ending to their arc
確かにちょっと変わった選択だったかもだけど、彼女が本当に自由な自分自身の姿になり、ある意味で父親と自分の夢を叶えたってのは、このアークのクールな締めくくりだと思うぜ。+526
Manjorno316
What was strange about it?
何が変だったって？+62
greeneggsnyams
原文
Luffy spent a lot of time getting to a point where he could even do gear 4th, much less gear 5, and even then the time he spent training was still relatively quick to get to his strength compared to other power houses in the series. Bonny got buff on imagination Edit: I enjoyed bonny going goofy. I thought it was a great way to end that chapter of her and kumas arc. I don't have any issue with it. I'm just pointing out other people's, very valid, opinion on that matter.
ルフィだってギア4に至るまでずいぶん時間かけてるし、ギア5はなおさらだ。それに、他の強者と比べても彼の鍛錬期間は比較的短い方だ。ボニーは想像力で強化されたわけで。 編集：ボニーがふざけるのは楽しかったよ。俺は…+58
slackoff123
原文
That's the thing tho. Her power quite literally is Imagination. As long as she can imagine a future where she achieved something, she can become that version of herself. Vegeta spent his entire life hearing stories and aspiring to be The Legendary Super Saiyan but no one actually believes they can make a myth become real. When he saw it was possible he achieved it in months. Bonnie unlocked the form but was clearly nothing even close to Luffy's power
それがポイントだよ。彼女の能力は文字通り想像力なんだ。何かを達成した未来の自分を想像できさえすれば、その姿になれる。ベジータは生涯、伝説の超サイヤ人になることを聞かされ、憧れてきたが、実際に自分がなれると信じた者はいなかった…+153
Manjorno316
You do realise that Bonny didn't actually unlock gear 5 right?
ボニーが実際にギア5を解放したわけじゃないってわかってる？+70
UW-TangClan
This isn't a Bonnie unlock to me so much as it is Luffy awakening Bonnie's potential through his own power and inspiration. That makes this a manifestation of Luffy's gear 5 power more than anything to me which is why it doesn't feel cheap or unearned.
これはボニーの解放ってより、ルフィが自身の力とインスピレーションでボニーの潜在能力を覚醒させたって感じがする。 だからこそ、これはルフィのギア5の力の顕現って側面が強く、安っぽくも努力不足とも感じないんだ。+22
Gibbs-free
People keep bringing up this argument and acting like the thing that made Luffy powerful was unlocking that form. The thing that makes Luffy powerful is Luffy. The form just lets him be more Luffy. Like if Luffy picked up Mihawk's sword, that wouldn't make him as good a swordsman as Mihawk.
みんなこの議論を持ち出して、ルフィを強くしたのはあの形態の解放だみたいに振る舞うけど、ルフィを強くしてるのはルフィ自身だよ。形態はただ、彼をもっと「ルフィらしく」してるだけ。 ミホークの刀をルフィが振り回したからって、ミホーク並みの剣士にはならねえだろ。+16
frubano21
I think the only thing I didn't like was that it was adult version of Bonney. Would've been cooler to me if her child form is what turned into Nika
唯一気に入らなかったのは、ボニーの大人バージョンだったことかな。子供の姿のままニカに変身する方がカッコよかったと思う。+272
Loros_Silvers
True, but she sees Luffy and she copies him so it makes more sense that she'd look around his age.
確かに。でも彼女はルフィを見てコピーしてるから、ルフィと同年代くらいに見える方が自然だろ。+104
CaptainSchmid
Its also an imagined future
それに想像上の未来だし。+65
dankhonker
I think it make perfect sense tbh. She is a child that's imagining her self growing up to be "Nika-like", hence the adult form. Kinda like how as a kid you would go "when I grow up, I wanna be an astronaut"
個人的には完璧に理にかなってると思う。子供が「大人になったらニカみたいになりたい」って想像してるんだから、大人の姿になるのは当然。子供の頃「大人になったら宇宙飛行士になりたい」って言うのと同じ感じで。+30
zmarotrix
She ses potential futures.l, so it stands to reason she would be older.
彼女は可能性のある未来を見てるんだから、年を取ってるのが道理にかなってる。+8
pinkleftsock
If you have enough media litteracy to understand she didn't actually become Nika, it's a great ending to her arc. And Kuma being there to see it even if he's not truly alive anymore was just perfect.
メディアリテラシーがあって「彼女が本当にニカになったわけじゃない」と理解できるなら、彼女のキャラクター成長として最高の締め方だよ。クマがもう本当の意味で生きてはいなくても、そこに居合わせて見届けたのも完璧だった。+212
adgobad
For anyone confused, media litteracy is when you throw your manga on the street after you finish reading it instead of finding a trashcan
混乱してる人向けに説明すると、メディアリテラシーってのは漫画を読み終えた後、ゴミ箱を探す代わりに道端にポイ捨てすることだよ+160
tangerineTurtle_
That’s not going to be a problem for me because I cannot read
それは俺には関係ないな、だって読めないから+41
adgobad
That's a literacy litteracy issue
それはリテラシーのリテラシー問題だな+22
DTPVH
Love it. It’s not only a nice power up for Bonney, but character development for Luffy as well.
最高だ。ボニーにとって良いパワーアップなだけでなく、ルフィのキャラクター成長にもなってる。+161
kidelaleron
Bonney's powers are whatever she thinks can happen in the future essentially.
ボニーの能力は、基本的に彼女が「未来に起こりうる」と思うことなら何でも実現できるんだ。+109
thefirstlaughingfool
It's why her's and Kuma's Devil Fruits are the most broken.
だから彼女とクマの悪魔の実は最強にチートなんだよ。+48
Emm_withoutha_L-88
Saturn gave it to her cus he thought it was useless too lol
サターンが彼女に渡したのも、自分でも使い物にならないと思ったからだろw+16
iggloovortex
Explain Kumas being busted
クマの能力がどうヤバいのか説明して+4
Clive_Bossfield
原文
Conceptual offense and defense. His paw pads deflect anything. Similar to Bartolomeos fruit, the powers it has are absolute as a rule (unless we see otherwise, I doubt we'll see either defense fail but I'd understand if they do). But for Barto its just defense, for Kuma you get repelled force, leading opponents to get knocked off guard and exposed to harm. World travel at will for him and anyone he can touch, spammable air cannons that travel insanely quickly, spammable air bombs that can deliver literal megatons of force with no energy expended. Possibly with training he could repel molecules or atoms but that gets complicated. So, reflexes permitting, he has impenetrable defenses and insane offenses, and we haven't even touched the notion of pain, memory, emotions, and sensations repelling. He can literally push concepts out of a person body. You fight him? Ok nice try idiot you dont know who you are anymore. Wait hold on you managed to hurt him? Cool he throws a bubble at you, that pain is yours now Maybe he has allies and pushes their pain out and sends it at all the enemies. Maybe he pushes out your love for the color purple
概念的な攻撃と防御だよ。彼の肉球は何でも弾く。バルトロメオの能力に似て、その力のルールは絶対的（今後覆る描写がない限りね。もしあっても理解はするけど）。でもバルトロメオは防御だけ、クマはそれに加えて弾く力、誘導もできる。+30
givemethedeetz
With the stipulation that as she gets older and learns more about the world, the amount of different futures that she can envision and activate with her powers becomes smaller. So she could really only use this specific power as a child that believes anything is possible.
ただし、彼女が年を取り、世界についてより多くを知るにつれて、彼女が想像し、能力で発動できる未来の種類は減っていくという条件付き。だから、この特定の能力は「何でも可能だと信じる子供の頃」にしか本当に使えなかったんだ。+7
funny-pupper
Yeah but in the one piece world there are all sorts of shenanigans going on so I think she could grow up and still think anything is possible especially growing up on the grand line
まあでもワンピースの世界では色々な超常現象が起きてるから、大人になっても「何でも可能」と思い続けられると思うよ、特にグランドラインで育ったならね+8
Epicbear34
Kind of unnecessary imo, her scene of witnessing Nika and discovering he was real had more narrative weight to me. I kind of wish Oda left it at that, even if it damsel-ifies her a little bit.
個人的にはちょっと不要だったと思う。「ニカを目撃し、彼が実在したと知る」シーンの方が、物語的に重みがあった。尾田先生があのシーンで止めておいてくれたら良かったのに、少し彼女を「お姫様」扱いにしてしまうとしてもね。+22
pipboy_warrior
原文
Loved it, and it was very inline with both Bonney and Luffy. For Bonney this was fulfilling her father's dream. After she and Kuma had suffered so long because of the Celestial Dragons, she was able to break free and deliver some much bigger payback. As for Luffy, he's always been about giving other people their moments to step up and shine. When he makes friends with someone and they are able to overcome their limits and step out of whatever hell they were in, that's when he's happiest. Not long before he did this with Momonosuke where he set it up for Momo to bite Kaido, he did the same with Bonney fighting Saturn.
最高だったよ。ボニーにもルフィにも、とても合ってた。 ボニーにとって、これは父親の夢を叶えることだった。天竜人のせて長く苦しんだ彼女とクマが、ついに束縛を破り、遥かに大きな仕返しをすることができた。 ルフィに関して言えば、彼はいつも…+27
NoodleIskalde
I love how Luffy just played defense to give Bonney the opening for pure offense.
ルフィが完全に防御に回って、ボニーに純粋な攻撃のチャンスを作ったところが最高に好き。+6
CalypsosCthulhu
My reaction when I watched it
俺がこれを見た時の反応+22
Yoh-Sei
I honestly thought it was dumb and unnecessary
正直、バカバカしくて不要だと思った+18
SunFamiliar4090
I didn’t like it ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
俺は好きじゃなかったな ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯+21
megasean3000
Love it! Love Bonney and Luffy’s friendship!
最高！ボニーとルフィの友情が大好き！+12
AStoopidSpaz
I really miss the old days of this subreddit. And the people in these comments are really enforcing that feeling for me. New Gen anime fans really are the worst
このサブレディットの昔が本当に恋しい。そして今このコメント欄にいる人たちが、その気持ちをさらに強くさせてくれるよ。ニュージェネレーションのアニメファンは本当に最悪だ。※「ニュージェネレーション」は、ここでは近年のアニメファン層を指すネットスラングとして意訳しています。+10
milkaberry
I understand what they were trying to do with the concept of “Freedom” and all but it happened way too soon. Gear 5 was a long awaited power up and huge twist to luffys devil fruit, it felt awkward seeing Bonney suddenly using it right after he just recently unlocked it. Also would have been more endearing if child Bonney used it instead of her adult version
「自由」のコンセプトで何をやろうとしてたかは分かるけど、タイミングが早すぎたんだよな。 ギア5は長年待ち望まれたパワーアップで、ルフィの悪魔の実に対する大きなひっくり返しだった。それが最近解禁されたばかりなのに、ボニーがすぐに使い始めるのは変な感じがした。それに、もっと…+10
Playful-Ease2278
I think it is a broader foreshadowing of the spreading of freedom
これは「自由」の広がりについての、もっと大きな伏線なんじゃないかな。+8
DebriMing
They just pulling things out the ass huh?
もう適当にでっち上げてんの？ｗ+8
tooka133
I don't like it I know how it works but I just don't like it, it just makes luffys Nika form less amazing to see
仕組みは分かるけど好きじゃない。ルフィのニカ形態の特別感が薄れちゃうよ。+8
quasvr
I completely agree
まったく同感。+1
Jix_Omiya
It was a darn beautiful moment. People overthink too much.
めっちゃキレイな瞬間だったよ。みんな考えすぎ。+7
EldridgeHorror
Translation: turn your brain off and enjoy it.
要するに「脳みそ停止して楽しめ」ってことだな。+3
TeddyMMR
Makes no sense
意味わからん。+8
TrickNatural
Didnt like it and still dont. Bonney love is so forced.
好きになれないし今もそう。ボニー愛はすごく作為的だ。+6
DonutloverAoi
原文
Still dislike it. I dont have the time to type out what I posted awhile back, but her just getting Gear 5. A form at the time i was still iffy about and was only slightly warming up to after the baseball scene. But also her power just being "if she can imagine a world she has that ability, she can do it. Kinda made me wish Bonney went back to being an unknown character we knew nothing about besides her aging power, and I will stand by my Hot take of not liking her just getting Gear 5, a form we waited years for Oda to give to Luffy.
今でも好きじゃない。前に書いた長文をまた書く時間はないけど、彼女がギア5を手に入れるって…あの形態は当時まだ自分も納得いってなくて、野球シーンの後でやっと少し受け入れ始めたところだった。それに彼女の能力が「想像できる世界ならその能力を使える」って…+7
pichukirby
I don't like it, but I can get over it
好きじゃないけど、まあいいや。+7
EldridgeHorror
Dumb in a bad way.
ダサい意味でアホらしい。+9
Jullia_Parrez
Bonney having access to the Nika form because he believed in his father makes sense emotionally, but narratively it seems that Oda needed a last minute power up. Her and Kuma’s arc deserved a more organic ending.
ボニーが父親を信じたからニカ形態を使えたのは感情的には納得できるけど、物語的には尾田先生が土壇場のパワーアップが必要だったように見える。彼女とクマの物語には、もっと自然な結末がふさわしかった。+5
i-bernard
Reading the manga week to week, I didn’t really hate it and thought it made a lot of sense. Especially thematically. In the anime, it was annoying as hell, but think most shit in the anime is annoying. They don’t know how to pace an episode to save their lives. Haven’t checked out the new season yet but I’m sure it’s going to be the same.
週刊でマンガを読んでた時は、別に嫌いじゃなかったし、かなり理にかなってると思ったよ。特にテーマ的には。アニメではめちゃくちゃウザかったけど、アニメのほとんどのシーンはウザいと思ってる。連中は命がけでもエピソードのペース配分が分かってない。新しいシーズンはまだ見てないけど+5
Ambitious_Mission_57
I don't care
別にどうでもいい。+5
ボニーのニカ形態は、彼女の自由への憧れとクマの夢を体現した感動的な瞬間として評価する声と、ルフィのギア5の特別感を損なう不必要なパワーアップと感じる声に分かれた。