D-Biggest_Wheel +1175
# Intro…
# Intro After 250+ chapters – eight years of real time – we finally got the BIG reveal of Imu’s appearance aaaand… it’s pretty much what we expected it to be: Imu is *One Piece*’s version of “[**the Devil**](https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/onepiece/images/d/d4/Nerona_Imu_Manga_Infobox.png/revision/latest?cb=20260416103420)”. image There was always a bit of a dilemma – at least for me – If Imu is meant to represent God, or the Devil, but his appearance – that of the classical depiction of the Devil – alongside his “The Devil’s Fruit”, now makes it pretty clear. In fact, I think we all low-balled just how strong the Devil influence would be, because Imu straight up is just **Satan** a.k.a. [**Lucifer**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucifer). [Alexandre Cabanel - Fallen Angel](https://preview.redd.it/v5il0y8dd5wg1.jpg?width=3732&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0a0cac83a03f05e9b1761cf0485b5cfae53d1a12) While his appearance doesn’t tell us the full story, the last time I wrote about Imu, we didn’t even know what he looks like. Now that we do, I think we can piece together the information we have so far in one piece through **John Milton’s epic poem,** by the name of… # Paradise Lost image “[*Paradise Lost* ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradise_Lost)is an epic poem about the **biblical story** of the fall of man: the temptation of **Adam** and **Eve** by the fallen angel [**Satan**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satan) and their expulsion from the [**Garden of Eden**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garden_of_Eden)**.** At the center of the story are the themes of free will and the moral consequences of disobedience, addressing questions of predestination, human agency, and the nature of good and evil.” You might be thinking that this seems random: why would this book *specifically* have anything to do with *One Piece*? But Oda is a well-known book nerd, and no stranger to using famous literary classics as inspiration for his own story. image From the names of Whitebeard’s ship *(*[*Moby-Dick*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moby-Dick)), Doflamingo’s family name ([*Don Quixote*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Quixote)), to the *Fishman Island arc* being Oda’s take on [*Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Seas*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty_Thousand_Leagues_Under_the_Seas), and the entire premise of *One Piece* being the same as that of [*Around the World in Eighty Days*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Around_the_World_in_Eighty_Days), you can see Oda incorporate some of the most famous literary stories into his own. You can already recognize the similarities in the themes explored in both *One Piece* and *Paradise Lost* (specifically, the “free will” and “human agency”), but what I want to draw attention to is the obvious “**biblical influence**” surrounding Imu, as well as the latest few arcs of *One Piece*. image We’ve had things like [**Treasure Tree Adam**](https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/onepiece/images/7/7c/Elbaph_Treasure_Tree_Adam.png/revision/latest?cb=20241110150340) and the [**Sunlight Tree Eve**](https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/onepiece/images/4/4a/Sunlight_Tree_Eve_Infobox.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/1000?cb=20240405013543) for quite a while now, which are obviously referencing the aforementioned [Adam and Eve](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_and_Eve), and the giant ship **Noah**, which is a reference to [Noah’s Ark](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noah%27s_Ark). But this goes way further – back to the first time the Straw Hats set foot in Grand Line. To avoid simply listing every single reference, I will stick to what is important. # The (Mu’s) World image Several times throughout the story, Imu is referred to as “the World”, by a couple of different characters (Rocks and Blackbeard Pirates). To our understanding this is because Imu is – not only the ruler, but also “the creator” (another thing he is referred to as) of this world; and Imu is aiming to change his creation by the means of sinking (flooding) it. We are assuming this to be the case because Imu states his (Mu’s) world is “incomplete”. image This is interesting because the name of the first part of the Grand Line is called “[**Paradise**](https://onepiece.fandom.com/wiki/Paradise)”, which is self-explanatory as to what it references, while the second one is called “[**The New World**](https://onepiece.fandom.com/wiki/New_World)”. What’s additionally interesting about this naming is that “Paradise” is writen in katakana as “*Paradaisu”*, after the English world itself (and not something like “Tengoku”), while the New World is in Japanese as “*Shinsekai”*. To me, this is clearly a reference to *Paradise Lost*: Satan gets banished from the titular Paradise after his loss in battle with God and, sometimes later, decides to corrupt the “new world” created by God through the corruption of Adam and Eve. image Grand Line’s Paradise represents the “old world” that existed before the creation of the **Red Line**, while the New World represets, well, the “new world” created after the Grand Line’s separation by the Red Line. I know there is a long running debate if the Red Line is a natural or artificial creation, and by no means is it confirmed that it’s artificial, but there is a lot of evidence supporting this notion, and it’s pilling on. This is the “Imu’s world”. The question is why? What is Imu’s goal and why does he want to change the world? # Better to Reign in Hell than Serve in Heaven image When Imu “descends” on Elbaph, he can be seen coughing blood, and clearly in pain. Now, this could be simply due to overexertion – maybe teleporting himself takes a lot of energy and effort; or maybe he is simply sick/wounded. However, the language used by the Gorosei, paints a completely different picture. Gorosei explicitly said that “descending to the lower world” will have consequences on Imu, implying the mere act of going “down/lower” will somehow harm him (which we see is true when he spits blood). [This is from the OFFICIAL translation of Chapter 1179](https://preview.redd.it/i136ex3df5wg1.png?width=975&format=png&auto=webp&s=833c21d91fa4fcc1314dcd39077008c84a5680a6) The specific wording used for the Chapter title, “*descends*”, is clearly meant to evoke the imagery of God, or rather an Angel, descending from Heaven (which is how the place where the Celestial Dragons live is referred as). And the usage of “lower”, points towards the ***altitude*** having significance. It seems clear that being at low altitude, closer to the sea, physically harms Imu, which is why he lives so high up on the **Red Line**. The entire purpose of rising the sea level is an effort to “terraform” the **Blue Planet** to make it more hospitable for Imu, and that is the reason why “Mu’s World” is not yet complete. Why does the Blue Planet’s climate harm one of its inhabitants? It’s because Imu is not one of them. Imu is ***not of this planet***… # The Moon Many have drawn comparison between Imu’s appearance and [**Hagoromo Otsutsuki** ](https://i.pinimg.com/736x/26/64/80/266480240287c5979d0ce11a0bc6ada6.jpg)from *Naruto*, and I believe this is intentional by Oda. Not because I think he wants the readers to draw comparison between the two characters, but instead where they come from: **the Moon (Space)**. image Both Imu and Hagoromo seem to take inspiration from the same source – they are these otherworldly, alien figures, and it shows in their designs. On his body, Imu has something resembling the [**Eye of Rah/Horus**](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b2/Eye_of_Ra_bw.svg/960px-Eye_of_Ra_bw.svg.png) (a.k.a. **Wedjat-eyes**), on the back of his palm, but also these angular lines mixed with circular spots that resembles a [circuit board](https://d1ymz67w5raq8g.cloudfront.net/Pictures/480xAny/8/4/0/130840_shutterstock_476872021.jpg), mixing up the elements of supernatural (Egyptian mythology) and science-fictional (“alien” technology).  Now, *One Piece* is no stranger to aliens: Skypieans, Birkans and Shandians are all confirmed to come from the Moon, and we even have other type of aliens in Enel’s Cover Story. image There are even theories that Lunarias come from the Moon, due to their namesake (Luna = Moon). However, we need to think BIGGER –          *further*, because I believe Lunarians, and Imu, come from **outer (deep) space** (it would explain the advance technology said to be used by the Ancient Kingdome). There has been some debate if Imu’s **dark skin color**, mixed with the white hair, is because he is a Lunarian, or simply due to his “The Devil’s Fruit” making his skin red (which shows as dark gray in black and white format). I, however, am positive, regardless if his skin color is red or brown, that he is indeed a Lunarian, or related to Lunarians (e.g. Imu is the progenitor of the races on the Blue Planet, and is to Lunarians what Ancient Giants are to Giants). # The reason for this is two-fold: First, the less important one is that in the 1000+ Chapters of the Manga, **King**, a Lunarian, is *THE ONLY* character to ever be drawn using a different shade for his skin. [The shade varies depending on the scan quality, but King is indeed a darker shade than other characters.](https://preview.redd.it/vagaxarbf5wg1.png?width=975&format=png&auto=webp&s=e650139f540153196f25fd39193fde6a1efd874a) Not even the brightly colored [**Oars (Red)**](https://www.pinterest.com/pin/one-piece--290552613459968818/) and **Oars Jr. (Yellow)** were shaded differently. This is mostly because Oda has stated that using shaders is time consuming and hard. The only other example of Oda using shaders is for Shanks’ red hair (I guess now Shamrock, as well). The other reason is a much more important one: a big part of the Devil’s lore is that Lucifer/Satan is seen as a **Fallen Angel** (in Christianity and ~~Islam~~). # The Fallen Angel, Imu Lunarians are very obviously meant to be *One Piece*’s representation of Angels – [**Seraphs (or Seraphim)**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seraph)**,** to be more precise: the highest order of Angels, known as “**the burning ones**”. [Angels \(Middle\), Seraphim \(Right\), Cherub \(Left\): Byzantine Orthodox Art](https://preview.redd.it/enref8grd5wg1.png?width=625&format=png&auto=webp&s=8a6c4dcd46a496c7d144bee157d4799789591c35) The Warlords clones (SSG), which incorporate Lunarian DNA/Lineage factor in their creation, are even called Seraphim, after the very angels they are meant to embody. Usually, when Lucifer gets banished from Heaven, he also symbolically, and quite literally, loses his angel wings. We can even briefly see Imu seemingly “growing” wings when he is about to teleport to the surface, and again we can fully see them in *Chapter 1180*. [Additionally, Gunko grows a pair of bat-wings when she gets possessed by Imu. ](https://preview.redd.it/hxs7b4faf5wg1.png?width=975&format=png&auto=webp&s=42cd923fa357762e4aaae21af3428984914869a9) The ring with eyes on Imu’s back also looks similar to **Ophanim** a.k.a\*\*. wheels\*\* a.k.a. **“**[**the many-eyed ones**](https://youtu.be/NGiiPTD8swk)”: the Angels second closest to God\*\*.\*\* As their name suggests, they take an appearance of wheels with many eyes, similarly to Imu’s “**halo**”. Back when Luffy’s real fruit was yet to be revealed, I theorized that Enel was attempting to emulate **Son God Nika**, due to his “final form” resembling the so-called “**Wisdom King**” (it’s how [Hyougorou called Luffy’s Gear 4^(th) form](https://preview.redd.it/was-hyogoro-right-afterall-chapter-1043-v0-uvp6le9s44n81.png?width=1006&format=png&auto=webp&s=331c4c3d9321e45fb01ccd9b9b23c55a17fdad04)). image The idea was that Enel, being the explorer he is, learned a lot about the unknown history, and the involvement of the mythical figure known as the Sun God, and then tried to emulate him. After all, Enel has a *tiny bit* of a God Complex. However, with Imu in the fray now, it seems way more likely that he was trying to emulate Imu. Enel is a Birkan who removed his wings (for yet unknown reason) and in their stead put a ring/circle with drums that have [**Tomoe**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomoe) on them. This ring/circle resemble the one Imu has. image If you really want to push it, and evoke the Naruto comparison, the Tomoe drums could be a representation of the eyes that Imu has on his ring, since that is what **Sharingan** is in *Naruto*. Reading about a God from olden times – a possible Lunarian who had his wings clipped and in their stead put this circle with eyes on it, might’ve inspired Enel to do the same. # What Is The Giant Shadowy Form? I’ve seen some confusion regarding the giant, shadowy form Imu assumes during Sabo’s confrontation in the Throne Room. If Imu ate “the Devil’s Fruit”, and assumed the humanoid form we see him in, then what was this all about? image This is because the Devil takes many forms: * Although he is not named specifically in the [*Book of Genesis*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Genesis), Satan is often identified as **the serpent** in the Garden of Eden. * In the [*Book of Revelation*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Revelation), Satana appears as a “[Great Red Dragon](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/eb/La_tenture_de_lApocalypse_%28Angers%29_%282%29.jpg/1280px-La_tenture_de_lApocalypse_%28Angers%29_%282%29.jpg)” * In the [*Quran*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quran), Iblis (Shaitan), the leader of the devils (shayāṭīn), is **made of fire**. * Satan's appearance is never described in the *Bible*, but, since the ninth century, he has often been shown in Christian art with **horns, cloven hooves, unusually hairy legs, and a tail, often naked and holding a pitchfork**. These are an amalgam of traits derived from various pagan deities, including Pan, Poseidon, and Bes. * Satan also frequently appears in Christian literature, most notably in Dante Alighieri's [*Inferno*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inferno_(Dante)), where he is depicted as a giant, **three-headed beast**. [La Bête de la Mer \(from the Tapisserie de l'Apocalypse in Angers, France\). A medieval tapestry, depicting the devil as a dragon with 7 heads in the Book of Revelation.](https://preview.redd.it/bp5mf509g5wg1.png?width=624&format=png&auto=webp&s=c7edaad02496462946cf08c78b228567aeb28079) The point is that, due to the nature of the Devil, we can expect Imu to take many forms, and the one we currently see him in is only one of them, while the one at the throne room is another. # Imu's Magic Lastly, we have Imu's abilities. I won't dwell too much on it as I have seen a lot of people already cover this. In short, the hand-signs that Imu use when casting "[Omen](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omen)" are called "[**Mudra**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mudra)" ("seal", "mark", or "gesture"): a symbolic or ritual gesture or pose in Hinduism, Jainism and Buddhism. image What I do want to dwell on is that I believe this power – this ability – does not come from Imu's Devil Fruit. I believe that magic is real in *One Piece*'s world, and that Imu is one of the rare people that knows how to use it. After all, [multiple people seem to know what a "magic circle](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/ut-ch9xEH48/mqdefault.jpg)" is when Imu casts his spells. Maybe he combines it with the power of his Devil Fruit for the abilities we see him use, but I do think magic is something others can use as well. It's about time for Oda to introduce a new ability... # If you enjoyed reading this, and want to see more of my stuff, make sure to upvote, leave a comment, and follow me for more weekly/bi-weekly One Piece posts!
# イントロ 250話以上、リアルタイムで8年かけて、ついにイムの姿が大公開されたわけだけど…まあ、ほぼ予想通りの見た目だったよね:イムは『**ワンピース**』版の「**[悪魔](https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/onepiece/images/d/d4/Nerona_Imu_Manga_Infobox.png/revision/latest?cb=20260416103420)**」ってわけ。 image 少なくとも俺的には、ちょっとしたジレンマがあったんだよな。イムが神を表してるのか、それとも悪魔なのかって。でも、古典的な悪魔の描写そのものって見た目と、「悪魔の実」って名前で、もうほぼ確定だわ。 むしろ、俺たち全員、この悪魔の影響力の強さを甘く見てたんじゃないかって思う。だってイムは完全に、そのまんま**サタン**、つまり**[ルシファー](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucifer)**なんだから。 [アレクサンドル・カバネル - 堕天使](https://preview.redd.it/v5il0y8dd5wg1.jpg?width=3732&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0a0cac83a03f05e9b1761cf0485b5cfae53d1a12) 見た目だけじゃ話の全てはわからないけど、前回イムについて書いた時は、まだ彼がどんな顔してるかさえ知らなかった。でも今はわかった。だから、今までに集めた情報を、**ジョン・ミルトンの叙事詩**、その名も… # 失楽園 image 「『**[失楽園](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradise_Lost)**』は、**聖書の物語**である人類の堕落——堕天使**[サタン](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satan)**による**[アダム](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam)**と**[イヴ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eve)**の誘惑、そして彼らが**[エデンの園](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garden_of_Eden)**から追放されること**——を描いた叙事詩である。物語の中心には自由意志と不服従の道徳的結果というテーマがあり、予定説、人間の主体性、善悪の本質といった問題に取り組んでいる」 これがランダムに思えるかもしれないニキ:なんでこの本が*特に*『ワンピース』と関係あるの?って。でも尾田先生は有名な文学オタクだし、自分の物語のインスピレーションに有名な文学古典を使うのはお手の物なんだよ。 image 白ひげの船の名前(『**[モビー・ディック](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moby-Dick)**』)、ドフラミンゴの家族名(『**[ドン・キホーテ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Quixote)**』)、魚人島編が尾田版『**[海底二万里](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty_Thousand_Leagues_Under_the_Seas)**』ってこと、そして『ワンピース』全体の前提が『**[八十日間世界一周](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Around_the_World_in_Eighty_Days)**』と同じってことからも、尾田先生が超有名な文学物語を自分の作品に取り入れてるのがわかるでしょ。 もう類似点に気づくよね、この…
Dv8x15
Mods deleted this while I was mid reading it lol but it all sounded real good as far as I had gotten!
モデが俺が読み終わる前に削除しやがったけどw/草、読めたとこまでマジでめっちゃ良さげだったわ!+132
D-Biggest_Wheel
[Go finish it here](https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePieceSpoilers/comments/1sptf9h/everything_you_need_to_know_about_nerona_imu_a/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1)
[続きはこちらでどうぞ](https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePieceSpoilers/comments/1sptf9h/everything_you_need_to_know_about_nerona_imu_a/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1)+28
Petit_Pedestre
Damn bro, just read the whole thing and you're making very interesting connections. That's some quality thinking right there, I wish I could upvote twice haha
やべぇニキ、全部読んだけどマジで面白い繋がり付けてるな。クオリティ高すぎて二回ぐらい押したいわw+118
D-Biggest_Wheel
Ay, thank you, and happy cake day!
おう、ありがとな!ケーキデーおめ!+21
D-Biggest_Wheel
原文
# Hello, everyone! This took a while to make, mostly because I wanted to sit a bit on it and think it through before posting. I tried to cram in as much information as possible in the "20 images per post limit, hence why there are so many links. I did leave out some information, because I already covered it in the [previous post](https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/1db0kmw/everything_we_so_far_know_about_imu_a_mega_post/), that sort of serves as a prequel to this one. Reddit is being weird today, so let me know if any image is missing. Peace!
# 皆さん、こんにちは! 結構時間かかっちゃった。投稿前にちょっと考えをまとめたかったのと、1投稿20枚画像制限にできるだけ情報詰め込もうとしたから、リンク多くなっちゃってる。 いくつか情報は省いたんだけど、もうすでに…+100
Obversa
原文
Hello, moderator of r/FanTheories here! If you and other *One Piece* fans are interested, we'd love to have you crosspost your theories and speculation over on that subreddit as well! Other than what you mentioned here, all of this talk about Imu vs. Nika and the Lunarians reminds me of *The Guardians of Childhood* book series by William Joyce, which was adapted into the movie *Rise of the Guardians* (2012). In that series, before the creation or discovery of Earth, there was an intergalactic alliance of different alien species led by the Lunarians in the "Golden Age", when all dreams were possible, with Kozmotis Pitchiner, a heroic general of the Golden Army (i.e. space Marines) who volunteered to guard a prison of Fearlings (i.e. space Impel Down), beings or creatures "corrupted by evil" (i.e. space pirates) on a "dark planet". He became Pitch Black when one of the Fearlings tricked him, causing him to open the prison and become possessed, thus corrupting him into the Nightmare King. He lost all memories of his previous life, turning him into an entity fueled by fear and nightmares ["The Bo(o)geyman"], as well as hatred, resentment, and vengeance. Pitch Black then became a fearsome space pirate, ravaging entire planets, and leaving death and destruction in his wake. (The closest *One Piece* 1:1 is Blackbeard.) Quote from the Wiki: *"Pitch's mind and heart had been so twisted with thoughts of vengeance, he sought to destroy the Golden Age by turning all good dreams into nightmares. He plundered planets, extinguished stars and stole every dream he came across, leaving only misery and despair in his wake. [...] He hungered for children's dreams the most, since they were pure of heart, and even turned some children into Fearlings. Yet he had planned a different fate for the Lunanoff Prince, who never had a nightmare: Pitch would turn the infant into his Prince of Nightmares. To flee from him, the Lunanoff family set sail for Earth but he managed to track them down,
r/FanTheoriesのモデです!もしあなたや他の『ワンピース』ファンの方々が興味あれば、そちらのサブレディットにも考察や推測をクロスポストしてくれると嬉しいです! ここで言及されてること以外にも、イム対ニカやルナリアンの話は『The Guardi』を思い出させ…+8
D-Biggest_Wheel
原文
>Hello, moderator of [r/FanTheories](https://www.reddit.com/r/FanTheories/) here! If you and other One Piece fans are interested, we'd love to have you crosspost your theories and speculation over on that subreddit as well! Crossposting is not an issue, but I don't really see this post as a theory, it's more of an analysis/discussion post, since I'm mostly talking about the inspirations Oda seemingly took for Imu.
>r/FanTheoriesのモデです!もしあなたや他のワンピースファンが興味あれば、そちらのサブレディットにも考察や推測をクロスポストしてくれると嬉しいです! クロスポストは問題ないんだけど、この投稿は考察ってよりは…+4
SherbertNaive4783
That’s a great post, very interesting! Thank you for the read
すごい投稿だ、めっちゃ面白い!読ませてくれてありがとう+20
D-Biggest_Wheel
You're welcome. Thank you for reading it!
どういたしまして。読んでくれてありがとう!+5
32SkyDive
原文
First Up: nice breakdown. However i have one question: If you say that descending closer to sea level is what Hurts Imu, then why would He rise the sea level? I think its more to do with Pangea Castle being considered "holy ground", or possibly demonic ground, that feeds Imu (good reason to keep the Tenryubito around, If their lives are feeding Imu) and keeps him alive/an old injury from acting up
まず最初に:いい分析だ。 一つ質問があるんだけど、もし海面に近づくことがイムを傷つけるって言うなら、なんで海面を上げようとするの? パンゲア城が「聖地」、もしくはイムに力を供給する「魔界」みたいな場所って考えの方がしっくりくると思う(そっちの方が世界会議を…+16
D-Biggest_Wheel
It's not really him being closer to the Sea, in literal sense, as it's about him being too low on the altitude. The idea is that Imu is from another Planet, and the current climate of the Blue Planet doesn't suit him, so he wants to terraform it to fit him more. This would include raising the sea level, for whatever exact reason.
文字通りの「海に近い」ことじゃなくて、「標高が低すぎる」ことが問題なんだ。イムは別の惑星の出身で、今の青い星の環境が彼に合わないから、自分に合うようにテラフォーミングしたいって考え。それには海面を上げて…+15
ImmaculateWeiss
Awesome breakdown, great stuff
すげぇ分析、最高の内容だ+12
D-Biggest_Wheel
>breakdown I almost had one while trying to post this. For some reason, Reddit is going insane today. Also, thank you.
>分析 投稿しようとしてる時にこっちがブレイクダウンしそうだったわ。今日はなんでかRedditがおかしいんだよ。 あと、ありがとな。+7
Iron-Treads
Damn, what a read.... It's definitely a long post but it explains a lot of stuff. I like it a lot.
うわ、すごい読み応え… 確かに長文だけど、いろんなこと説明してくれてる。 めっちゃ気に入った。+8
Tall-Inspector3293
Didn't Whitebeard mention there use to be gods up on the red line a long time ago to Marco while in wano arc?
白ひげがワノ国編でマルコに、昔は赤い土の大陸に神々がいたって言ってなかった?+8
D-Biggest_Wheel
Yeah. I believe those were Lunarians.
そうだね。 あれはルナリアンだったと思う。+8
MoonlitSerenade
Thank you for the meal, chef
ごちそうさま、シェフ+6
D-Biggest_Wheel
Reddit投稿画像
TravelerSearcher
原文
Lots of strong points here. Personally I try to keep myself in the broader camp of Oda just likes to pull inspiration from multiple sources and has an innate knack for following traditional and well trod story paths. I think you're probably spot on for several points, but I would be remiss if I didn't point out there's a lot of Japanese and Eastern mythology in general at play as well. You alluded to it in your post too but there's a few more I think might be important to bring up. A lot of long running shonen eventually up the ante to include 'ascending' to the heavens, whether literally or figuratively. Dragon Ball Z with King Yama, King Kai, after earlier introductions of Kami in the original series. Naruto, as you mentioned, with the progenitor concept and the source of all jutsu/chakra coming from heavenly beings/aliens. Going incredibly far back, this harkens back to Martial Arts Mythology and epics like Journey to the West with Sun Wukong. And in that vein there is also certain symbolism drawn from Eastern traditions, which you did mention briefly. To expand on that, the ring of fire behind Imu is drawn from artistic interpretations of Hindu/Buddhist imagery if I recall correctly. Of course rings of fire are also in some Western/Christian mythology as well (Thrones) so again there's overlap and that's also parallel to your Angel analysis. Another Eastern artistic interpretation is the ring of clouds framing a divine or heavenly character. We've seen this already with Gear 5 (and precursor with Gear 4) and Oda also seems to associate that with awakened Zoan fruits, as Lucci had a version as well. Sengoku also did, but his Mythical Zoan was literally Buddha so we didn't know that it was possibly related to Awakening at the time. (I don't think we even really knew about Awakening at the time of Marineford) This is all just further informing the idea that Oda is pulling inspiration from a myriad of sources, whether through unconscious osmosis of art and cult
良い点がたくさんあるな。個人的には、尾田は単に様々なソースからインスピレーションを得るのが好きで、伝統的でよく踏まれた物語の道筋を自然に追う才能がある、という広い見解に自分は立ってる。 いくつかの点では君の指摘はほぼ正しいと思うけど、もし言わなかったら不十分だと思うのは…+6
D-Biggest_Wheel
原文
>Another Eastern artistic interpretation is the ring of clouds framing a divine or heavenly character. We've seen this already with Gear 5 (and precursor with Gear 4) and Oda also seems to associate that with awakened Zoan fruits, as Lucci had a version as well. Sengoku also did, but his Mythical Zoan was literally Buddha so we didn't know that it was possibly related to Awakening at the time. (I don't think we even really knew about Awakening at the time of Marineford) You're talking about the Hagoromo scarf, right? If so, yeah, that's a sign of a deity in Eastern Mythology. You can even see Enel have one in his "Raijin" form.
>もう一つの東洋的な芸術的表現として、神聖または天なるキャラクターを縁取る雲の輪がある。これはギア5(とその前兆であるギア4)ですでに見ていて、尾田はそれを覚醒した動物系の実とも関連付けているようだ。ルッチも同様のものを持っていたし。センゴクもそうだったが、彼の幻獣種…+3
TravelerSearcher
Yes, I think so. I'm not as knowledgeable on the terminology. That sort of framing is another cross cultural thing, the more I think about it. Like drawing circles of light around saintly or divine beings in western art, Halos. Ultimately there's a lot more similarity and cross-pollination between cultures than we might realize at first glance.
うん、そう思う。用語についてはそこまで詳しくないけど。 そういう縁取りの表現って、考えれば考えるほど文化的なクロスオーバーだよな。西洋美術で聖なる存在の周りに光の輪(ハロー)を描くのと同じような。 結局のところ、東洋と西洋の間にはもっと多くの類似点と相互影響がある…+3
D-Biggest_Wheel
Yeah, people don't realize this, but a lot of mythologies/religions are inspired by one another. Norse mythology is a great example because a lot of it was deeply influenced by Christianity, which is fitting for the current arc. Even the Christian depiction of the Devil (the one with goat legs and pitchfork) is an amalgamation of the likes of Poseidon and Bes.
そうそう、みんな気づいてないけど、多くの神話や宗教は互いに影響し合ってるんだよ。北欧神話はその良い例で、キリスト教の影響をかなり強く受けている。今のエンジェル島編にもぴったりだな。 キリスト教における悪魔の描写(山羊の足と…+3
Hypemaster
One correction but great theory. Satan is not recognized as a fallen angel in Islam, angels have no free will and show 100% obedience. He’s known as a jinn (created out of smokeless fire).
一点修正だけど素晴らしい考察だ。イスラム教ではサタンは堕天使とは見なされていない。天使には自由意志がなく100%服従するからね。彼はジン(煙のない炎から創造された存在)として知られている。+6
Acrobatic_Bite_7339
原文
Awesome theory, you might really be onto something! Only thing you got wrong is when you said "the Grand line was separated by the Red line". It's actually the opposite: the Red line was formed in the 1st world (after the fight between Nika, the Earth god and the hell serpent), while the Grand line was formed in the 2nd world, when "the Sea god raged". It all ties into the "they'd never meet again" line. "They" is referring to the seas, which were separated by the Red line and the Grand line. "They will surely meet again" in the 3rd world, because Luffy will destroy Fishmen Island and the Red line along with it, bringing all the seas together again (and creating the All Blue for Sanji).
すげえ理論だ!本当に何か核心に迫ってるかも! 一点だけ間違ってるのは、「グランドラインがレッドラインによって分断された」って部分。実際はその逆で、レッドラインは第1の世界(ニカ、大地の神、地獄の蛇の戦いの後)で形成されたのに対して、グランドラインは…+4
D-Biggest_Wheel
>It all ties into the "they'd never meet again" line. "They" is referring to the seas, which were separated by the Red line and the Grand line. Oh, what the Hell!? That's fire! Genuinely surprised to see an original theory on this.
>全ては「二度と会うことはないだろう」という台詞に繋がる。「それら」とは、レッドラインとグランドラインによって分断された海々を指している。 おっ、マジかよ!?それめっちゃアツいやん! オリジナルの理論が見られて純粋に驚いたわ。+3
hyperactivator
You left out the obvious reference to emperor Nero. The Roman emperor so hated that he might be the biblical anti Christ. With everything pointing to a non magical explanation in one piece it would be fitting if the devil was just a delusional ruler.
明らかなネロ皇帝への言及を忘れてるぜ。ローマ皇帝で、聖書の反キリストかもしれないとまで憎まれた男だ。ワンピースで非魔法的な説明が全てを指し示しているなら、悪魔がただの妄想に取りつかれた支配者だったというのは合点がいく。+4
D-Biggest_Wheel
I mentioned that in my original Imu post. It was around 2 years ago.
それは俺が最初にイムについて書いたポストで言及したよ。2年くらい前のことだけどな。+3
junction1134
Halfway through your post and it was removed by mods. Awesome. Great job 😒
投稿の途中まで読んでたらMODに削除されたわ。最高だね。グッジョブ😒+3
D-Biggest_Wheel
[I gotcha](https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePieceSpoilers/comments/1sptf9h/everything_you_need_to_know_about_nerona_imu_a/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
[大丈夫、これ見て](https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePieceSpoilers/comments/1sptf9h/everything_you_need_to_know_about_nerona_imu_a/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)+3
TheBigLeboofski
Why are you putting a spoiler in the title of a post?
なんで投稿のタイトルにネタバレ入れるの?+3
Twisted-_Fate
i wish it wasnt removed by moda
MODに削除されなきゃ良かったのに+3
AlanyzingWakeEnviron
I haven't read this yet, but I recently picked up a Milton reader and some annotated versions of what I see referenced here. I can't wait to read through this and steal some tinfoil for my own project, thank you wonderful person
まだ読んでないけど、最近ミルトンのリーダー本と、ここで参照されてるものの注釈付き版を手に入れたんだ。これを読み通して、自分のプロジェクト用にアルミホイルネタ※「アルミホイルネタ」は、荒唐無策で突飛な陰謀論や考察を意味するネットスラング「tinfoil hat theory」の訳語です。をパクるのが楽しみでならねえ。ありがとう、素晴らしい人よ。+3
Squidosaurus_
原文
Incredible theory ! It feels really coherent and strangely not farfetched at all given the links. While thinking about the name of The Devil's Fruit, couldn't that fruit be compared to the apple eaten by Eve led by the snake / devil, that in turn led to the loss of Eden ? Given how the bible's referenced that heavily with ancient testament I feel like this is not random. It could point to either : - Why Imu came to earth on the first place. - Why Imu (and the celestial dragons, by imitation, not by necessity) consider the air poisonous while not on redline. Having lost the ability to live in Eden, forced to stay on the seemingly pretty arid Mary Joise instead. - Why the world's technology regressed that much (being forced out of the paradise of technology). - So many other things that I didn't think about. It seems interesting to try to finally get a solid theory on why Devil's Fruit are named like that, and all the other mysteries around them.
信じられない理論だ!すごく一貫性があって、与えられた関連性を考えると、奇妙なことに全然突飛じゃない感じがする。 悪魔の実の名前について考えてたんだけど、その実って、蛇/悪魔に導かれたイブが食べたリンゴ、つまりエデンの園の喪失につながったあのリンゴと比較できないかな?聖書の引用が…+3
Explorer_lion999
One question, if imu is weak to low altitudes or rather say coming close to sea then why is he trying to flood the world?? It would only make him closer to sea. Great post, and i also want to discuss your take on the mural and the first and second world.
一つ質問。もしイムが低高度、つまり海に近づくことに弱いなら、なんで世界を水没させようとしてるの?それじゃ海に近づくだけだろ。 素晴らしい投稿だ。あと、君の壁画と第1・第2の世界についての見解も議論したいな。+3
C6ntFor9et
原文
First off, great post! I really enjoyed the analysis, the parallels drawn, and the thorough inclusion of imagery. The Fallen Angel painting in particular is very evocative. I didn't even see some of the parallels with Enel before (granted I'm a bit of a fairweather fan). Have you considered creating separate repository of your posts outside of Reddit, like a blog? You could have the mega threads as blog posts and other content on there as well. Reddit's ephemeral nature causes posts to kind of being lost to time. Having them all live in persistence could allow folk to find and read your older analysis/theories, and give you a place to look back at yourself and re-evaluate or simply reflect upon your writing. Plus, you'd have additional reign over the presentation of the analysis, perhaps allowing you to shape the page to best display your content to illustrate your points. You could still post on Reddit just like this, it doesn't have to be a hard link only. I'm only recommending this because I'm a sucker for organization and I believe that losing valuable work done to time is a pity if it can be avoided. Anyway, just my 2 cents. Again, great post and thanks for the hard work!
まず、素晴らしい投稿だ!分析、引き出された類似点、そして画像を徹底的に含めた構成、どれも本当に楽しめた。特に『堕天使』の絵はとても印象的だ。エネルとの類似点のいくつかは以前は全く気づかなかった(とはいえ俺はちょっとしたにわかファンだけど)。 考えたことある?+3
Minilocker273814
wooooow sooo long, but thanks
うわー、めっちゃ長い…でもありがと。+2
Unable_Victory5580
For a Fun extra little bit of reading I'd recommend giving the book of enoch a skim through fully. Lots of parallels of imu decending the throne and theres mentions of giants throughout. Also fun little note the book of enoch was removed from the more modern bible. Could be a fun little refernce to imus hidden identity and habit of wiping things from history
ちょっとした楽しい読み物として、『エノク書』にざっと目を通すのをオススメする。イムが玉座から降りる話との類似点がたくさんあるし、巨人についてもあちこちで言及されてる。もう一つ面白い小ネタとして、エノク書はより現代的な聖書からは外されてるんだ。もしかしたらワンピースの…+2
sugapuppy
uhm it got deleted 😭
えー、削除されてるやん😭+2
XenoPasta
I really wanted to read this 😩
めっちゃ読みたかったんだけどなぁ😩+2
No-Association8914
I saved it to read for later but got deleted. Wth
後で読むように保存したのに消されてた。マジかよ+2
TLVftwLOL
Damn, Chef. You better COOK!
やべぇ、シェフ。本気出せよ!+2
king_of_the_pirats
What does this power mean the devil's fruit? Is he the origin of all devil fruits?
この力ってどういう意味?悪魔の実の起源ってこと?+2
Ok_Industry_9333
I saw a post saying that the body he’s in isn’t his own. I am on my phone and don’t know how to do Spoilers so I won’t say who was named but: - is that true and if so, where was it confirmed?
彼が乗っかってる体は本人のものじゃないって投稿を見た。スマホからでスポイラーの仕方わからんから名前は言わんけど: - それマジ?マジならどこで確定した話?+2
D-Biggest_Wheel
>is that true and if so, where was it confirmed? It's not confirmed -- just a theory.
>それマジ?マジならどこで確定した話? 確定じゃないよ--単なる理論。+3
DUPL01337
Nice analysis but just want to correct you that in Islam the devil isn't seen as a fallen angel
いい分析だけど、ちょっと訂正するとイスラム教では悪魔は堕天使とは見なされないんだよね+2
Disastrous-Crow
Reddit投稿画像
So maybe this was imu falling from the heaven?
じゃあこれってイムーが天から落ちてくるところか?+2
Aran-Dalord
Good job bud, really nice takes and connections.
おつニキ、マジでいい考察と繋がりだったわ。+1
海外ファンは、イムを「悪魔の実」の能力者であると同時に、聖書の『失楽園』に描かれる堕天使サタンのオマージュであり、かつ月から来た古代のルナリア族の生き残りかもしれないという、多層的で壮大な考察を展開している。