Freesia99
Reddit投稿画像
A proper resolution to any plot point or character?
ちゃんと回収されたプロットやキャラってある?+551
Manjorno316
That's Fujimoto baby.
それが藤本やで。+43
Asleep-Gift-3478
原文
Genuinely, I feel like either Fujimoto stopped caring or never intended to reveal Yoshida’s past. I think we got the gist that Yoshida genuinely wanted to stop Nostradamus from being fulfilled. So much to the point that he was willing to commit suicide. I think he could’ve received a similar level of depth as Aki did in part 1, but part 2 was really deficient in that area for side characters (with the exception of Denji, Asa and maybbeeee Nayuta?) It shall remain a mystery 😩
マジで、藤本が吉田の過去を明かすのをやめたか、最初から明かすつもりなかったんじゃないかって思う。吉田が本気でノストラダムスの予言実現を止めたかったってのは伝わったし、自殺も辞さない覚悟だった。彼もパワーやなゆた並みに…+291
berodem
Yess im glad someone got the same vibes. The way he was set up throughout the beginning chapters felt sorta similar to Aki. I feel like if he was given a little more depth he could've had the potential to be the next gut wrenching death on par with Power and Nayuta.
そうそう!同じ感じ受けた人いて嬉しい。序盤からの描かれ方、なんかアキに似てる気がしたんだよね。もっと掘り下げられてたら、パワーやなゆた並みに胸ぐらつかせる死を迎える可能性あったかも。+47
CrematorTV
原文
Yoshida's role is kept vague on purpose, but I'd argue that makes him more interesting. While it would've been nice to see more of his backround and I can't say I'm satisfied with how he went out, he does come off as important to Part 2 when you actually look at things. This is just my interpretation, so I can't say everything here is correct: Yoshida is Public Safety's Reze and was likely trained and raised by them to be used by the Japanese government. While he never says it directly, it is obvious that he doesn't know what a "normal life" looks like, saying that he has no idea how a highschooler should act, his version of "socializing" is buying food for others and watching them eat, he wants people to like him and is disappointed when they don't, etc. It was already implied in Part 1 that he's much older than he looks, which is reinforced by Fumiko (who's 22) calling him "senpai", so he can't possibly be a highschooler. Furthermore, Yoshida is the first who brings up the fact that Denji needs to make a choice between his Chainsaw Man identity and a normal life, and he's offended when Denji is having difficulty deciding. Mind you, this is the first and ONLY time when he snaps. In every other situation he stays calm and stoic, even when Yoru throws a cake in his face, which means that he desperately wants a normal life (he's a country mouse) and doesn't understand why Denji would struggle with the choice. His "bear" speech implies that Yoshida sees it as his purpose to lead "the bears of the world" back to the forest, which implies getting rid of devils (bear-kuma, demon-akuma, demon=devil) and prioritizes his job above all else, but it's clear that he wants to befriend and help Denji, just doesn't know how. Their final scene together implies that Yoshida actually liked spending time with Denji and that he was likely the closest thing Yoshida ever had to a friend (his only competition is Fumiko which is just sad). Sure, it's annoying that most of their time
吉田の役割は意図的に曖昧にされてるけど、それがむしろ面白いんだよな。 背景もっと見たかったし、あの最期に完全に満足ってわけじゃないけど、よく見ると第二部で重要な役回りだったんだ。 これは俺の解釈だけど…+143
crymachine
I like how every complaint is always: I didn't like this one thing I wasn't shown I should care about. And then every good response has some lore that took more than a second to imagine.
いつも「見せられてないからどうでもいいやつに納得いかん」って文句ばっかで草。 で、良い反論は全部、一瞬じゃ考えつかない深い考察付いてるの好き。+21
CrematorTV
Not imagine, remember. I actually forgot some of his lines so I had to check just to make sure XD But yeah, as confusing as Part 2 is, there's a lot to like and interpret if you actually think about it. It's flawed sure, but why does everything these days have to be perfect or absolute doghsit with no in-between?
考えつくんじゃなくて「思い出す」だわ。俺も彼のセリフ忘れてて確認したし w まあでもそう、第二部は混乱するけど、よく考えれば好きになる要素や解釈の余地はたくさんある。欠点はあるよ、でも最近の作品ってなんで完璧かクソかの二択なんだよ…+38
crymachine
原文
The worst part about Chainsaw Man (pt2) is that it requires the reader to remember what they read - has been my favorite commentary on the topic. And I wasn't even super passionate about the story but everyone's crybaby reaction made me think more about it and I just keep finding richer and richer lore. Fujimoto writes fiction, usually uses two characters relationship to one another to explore feelings or topics, and he uses soft magic that's flexible and not strictly defined. All these jjk brains and professional YouTubers are out here upset and unsatisfied the story hasn't directly fed them an idea or feeling to end the series on is wild work and keeps me entertained and thinking about the story.
「チェンソーマン(第二部)の最悪な点は、読んだことを覚えておく必要があることだ」ってコメントがこの話題で一番好き。 俺も別にストーリーに熱狂してたわけじゃないんだけど、みんなの泣き言反応が考えさせられて、どんどん深みが出てきてる。+25
allmyburnerquestions
But tbf are you gonna tell me you didn't wish you found out what happened to our man Kishibe
でもマジで、岸辺先生がどうなったか気にならないって言える?※岸辺は第一部の伝説的デビルハンター。第二部では消息不明。+2
crymachine
原文
I'm re reading the story right now, and Kishibe claims he's like a low level 4 vs 1 like he use to he because he's old, shows his back story chasing the lesbian for like nine? Years? And he survives Makima, finds the reincarnation as Nayuta and hands that off to Denji then disappears. So he's one of the few public safety workers who doesn't die and gets away from it all. Like? He's cool, more of him would he nice but there's enough there to conclude his story. One thing for this series is it's chainsaw man, not public safety and friends, not devil hunters inc. The story revolves around Denji and shows the people he's close to, there's plenty of interesting and neat side characters, but much like real life, they're not fleshed out. If you like my reply and want to know me, you don't exactly get to know what my day was like and who I am. Same with csm, it's through that lens.
今読み直してるんだけど、岸辺は「昔みたいに1対多は無理、低レベル4くらいだ」って年齢を理由に言ってて、レズビアン(クァンシ)を9年?も追いかけた過去が出て、真紀魔から生き延びて、なゆたの転生体見つけてデンジに託してから消えるんだよな。 だから彼は…+2
Exciting_Mine711
You should make this a post this is a great analysis.
これ投稿すべきだわ。素晴らしい分析。+16
CrematorTV
Maybe. 70% of my posts are getting rejected but I suppose it's worth a try.
そうかな。俺の投稿の7割は却下されるけど、試す価値はあるかも。+4
flightofangels
Senpai can refer to a younger person who *joined* an organization before you did, so if Fumiko only *joined* after the gun devil, it tracks.  Otherwise: you cooked. Bless the Kuma reference
「先輩」って、組織に*入った*時期が早い後輩にも使うから、文子が銃の悪魔事件*後*に入ったなら合ってる。 それ以外:お前、よくやった。クマのネタもグッド※「クマ」は作者・藤本タツキの短編作品「さようなら えり」のキャラクター。作中で「先輩」の呼称に関する独特の描写がある。+6
CrematorTV
As much as I love to brag, I didn't come up with that one, as I don't know 5 words in Japanese. Read it somewhere and it made sense so I just remembered it.
自慢したいけど、それは俺のオリジナルじゃないよ。日本語5語も知らんし。どこかで読んで納得したから覚えてただけ。+4
flightofangels
You might even have heard it from me then. It's the truth so I'm happy regardless
それなら俺から聞いたかも。真実だから誰が言おうと嬉しいけどな。+2
Prudent-Emergency661
原文
>Yoshida is Public Safety's Reze and was likely trained and raised by them to be used by the Japanese government. While he never says it directly, it is obvious that he doesn't know what a "normal life" looks like, saying that he has no idea how a highschooler should act I think Yoshida was a private devil hunter in part 1. In chapter 53 when Makima is gathering devil hunters to protect Denji she says, "Also, hire Hirofumi Yoshida from the civilian sector for one month." Then in chapter 67 when he's talking to Kishibe he tells him that he has finals coming up, and Kishibe says, "Oh yeah, you're still in high school aren't ya?" so I think he was going to school during part 1.
>吉田は公安のレゼで、日本政府が使うために訓練・育成されたんだろう。直接は言わないけど、普通の生活がわからない(高校生らしい振る舞いがわからない)って言ってるから明らか。 吉田はプライベートの…+2
CrematorTV
原文
He was likely getting prepped for his mission rather than actually being a high schooler though. Literary says that before he dies. His purpose was to literary blend in and keep an eye on Denji, so I don't think he was a private devil hunter, only Makima and Kishibe thought that. PS knew about the prophecy beforehand so it would make sense that they keep him a secret from Makima since she was also being used as a weapon in the beginning and they didn't trust her with everything.
彼は実際の高校生ってより、任務の準備中だったんだと思う。死ぬ前に文字通りそう言ってるし。目的は文字通り紛れ込んでデンジを監視することだったから、私設デビルハンターじゃないよ。真紀魔と岸辺だけがそう思ってた。公安は私設のことを知ってて…+4
waniwaniv
原文
Its still funny to me to see people talking about how Yoshida has no personality/was a nothingburger character when Fujimoto never really tried to hide anything him and his personality. Fujimoto subverted this enigma of a character to be one incapable of being normal yet tries to be so; he never gets truly mad at Denji but you can tell he was jealous and mad specifically that Denji always opts for a third option. Yoshida thinks he knows everything (he doesnt) and that's why his death hits hard. He basically never knew why Denji is the way he is. Denji snaps at Barem for being Barem and only a minor part of it was Yoshida, Yoshida's relationship with Denji was always meant to be one sided, as only one person yearns for what the other has. I love the little Yoshida Denji "flashback" we never saw now thanks to this interpretation.
藤本が吉田とその性格を隠そうともしてないのに、吉田に個性がない/中身のないキャラだって話してるの見るとまだ笑える。藤本はこの謎めいたキャラを、普通になれないのに普通になろうとする無能さで捻ったんだ;彼は決して…+2
joepanda111
*Why didn’t they just use a Fumiko clone to blow up?*
*なんで文子のクローン使って爆発させなかったの?*+23
CrematorTV
Because they knew Denji couldn't care less about her
デンジが彼女のことなんてどうでもいいって知ってたからでしょ+19
TheToolbox101
Denji couldn't care less about yoshida either tbh
正直、デンジは吉田のこともどうでもいいと思ってたし+30
CrematorTV
I'm not so sure about that. The fact that Denji remembered a DUDE'S name means he did care somewhat XD Also, the fact that we don't know for sure if it was Yoshida's death or Barem's appearance that triggered the transformation adds some ambiguity to the situation. Yoshida wanted to befriend Denji in his own, weird way and we're never going to find out whether or not he succeeded.
それはどうかな?デンジが男の名前を覚えてたってことは、多少は気にかけてた証拠じゃん?w それに、変身の引き金が吉田の死だったか、バレムの登場だったか確信が持てないのも、この状況を曖昧にしてるよね。吉田はデンジと友達になりたがってたし+23
cruel-oath
Funny you say that, Denji has shown more care for Fumiko than Yoshida. He screamed out for her in worry when Spear grabbed her during the church arc
面白いこと言うねー。デンジは吉田より文子の方を気にかけてるシーンあるよ。教会編で槍に捕まった時、心配して彼女の名前叫んでたし+0
CrematorTV
That was before she left them for dead and actively sided against him afterwards.
それは、彼女がデンジたちを見捨てて、その後は積極的に敵側に回る前の話だろ+8
cruel-oath
Because Fumiko had already told Denji she can’t die
文子はデンジに「死なない体」って言ってたからでしょ+11
itsmarthai
What if Kishibe son?!?!?! (I also do not know, loved the guy tho)
岸辺の息子だったらどうする?!?!?! (俺も知らんけど、あのキャラ好きだったわ)+23
berodem
That was a pretty popular theory back in part 1 days before part 2 even began. Maybe if Kishibe was even present in part 2 we could've gotten a proper answer
それは第2部が始まる前、第1部の頃に結構流行った説だね。もし岸辺が第2部に登場してたら、ちゃんとした答えが出てたかもね+17
aster2560
原文
We didn’t due to Fujimoto probably pivoted where the story in Part 2 was originally gonna go partway through by the time of the Chainsaw Man Church arc and Yoshida was gonna have a bigger role in the story originally but a lot of it got scrapped due to the story pivoting Like the mysterious organization that Yoshida said he worked for in chapter 103 probably wasn’t gonna be Public Safety originally and it was gonna be a different organization and how Yoshida knew about Pochita’s erasure ability was probably gonna be bigger deal than it was
それはなかったよ。藤本が第2部のストーリーの方向性をチェンソーマン教会編あたりで途中変更したから、吉田は元々もっと大きな役割を持つ予定だったけど、ストーリー変更で多くが没になったんだろうね 例の謎の組織みたいに+18
Isoleri
Just yesterday I was remembering all the theories about him being the one person who managed to escape Aging's world, and him possibly being Kishibe's father, with other evidence such as Yoshida being sort of disconnected from modern teen stuff and that pointing to him being actually older. But oh well, nothing ever happened with pretty much anyone and everything was pointless.
つい昨日、彼が老化の悪魔の世界から唯一脱出した人物って説や、岸辺の父親説を思い出してたんだ。根拠は、吉田が現代のティーン向けのものに疎い感じがするから、実は年上なんじゃないかってやつ。でもまあ…+18
Iced-TeaManiac
Reddit投稿画像
Manjorno316
He looks like a young Kishibe?
若い岸辺に似てる?+2
berodem
Reddit投稿画像
Manjorno316
Yeah that's pretty damn similar. I don't think it necessarily has to mean there is a bigger connection. I feel like I've seen Asas face 10 times over throughout his work. Fully possible tho!
うん、めっちゃ似てる。 必ずしも深い関係があるって意味じゃないと思う。藤本の作品でアーサの顔みたいなの、10回は見た気がするし。 でも、あり得なくはないね!+10
Hektorlisk
Wait, where is this from? I don't remember it
待って、これどこのシーン?覚えてない+2
doudreaddragondeez
Glorious chudcel
栄光のチョドセル※「chudcel」は「Chud(陰キャ)」と「cel(非モテ、incelの略)」を組み合わせた造語。陰キャで非モテの男性を指すネットスラング。+1
MollySantan2x
While we’re at it. What was the deal with Fumiko too?
ついでに聞くけど、文子は結局なんだったの?+1
berodem
We dont really know either. Its kinda a trend with characters in part 2. Aside from Asa and Yoru we don't know wtf is going on with characters
それもよく分かんない。第2部のキャラあるあるだわ。アーサと戦争の悪魔以外は、みんな何考えてるかサッパリだ+5
MollySantan2x
Part 2 had such amazing and fleshed out storytelling wow!🔥🔥🔥🔥
第2部ってストーリーがすごく練り込まれてて最高だね!🔥🔥🔥🔥※原文は皮肉(シニカル)な表現です。キャラクターの背景や動機が不明瞭な点を「練り込まれている」と逆説的に評しています。+2
吉田ヒロフミというキャラクターは、その謎めいた存在感と不完全な解決によって、読者に深い考察と解釈の余地を残す役割を果たしたと言える。