ventingandcrying
+308
Looking back, this feels somewhat antagonistic of Pochita. Denji wants to be happy with a normal life but his guilt (stepping on a bird) eats away at him, he doesn’t believe he deserves to be happy. The devil in his heart can’t comprehend guilt, so he turns it into desire (turning from a bird into Pochita) and asks Denji what his next dream will be. Denji essentially just said he wants to be done dreaming, but his heart (Pochita) won’t let him.

It’s easy to forget but Pochita is still a devil,

振り返ると、これってちょっとポチタに敵対してる感じだよね。デンジは普通の幸せな生活を望んでるのに、罪悪感（鳥を踏んじゃったこと）が彼をむしばんでて、自分は幸せになる資格ないって思っちゃう。彼の心の中の悪魔は罪悪感なんて理解できないから、それを欲望に変えちゃう（鳥からポチタに変身）そしてデンジに次の夢は何かって聞く。デンジは基本的に「もう夢は終わりにしたい」って言っただけなんだけど、彼の心（ポチタ）はそれを許さないんだよね。

忘れがちだけど、ポチタはやっぱり悪魔なんだよな。

FriendLee93 +305
Totally disagree. Pochita understands Denji *bette…
Totally disagree. Pochita understands Denji *better* than Denji understands himself. That’s why he spends all of his appearances in Part 2 trying to remind Denji of his humanity, and coming out specifically when it’s ripped away. That’s why he eats himself in the end. He sees, clearer than Denji does, the suffering he’s creating for his friend.

Asa and Yoru are meant to reflect that in the inverse. Yoru doesn’t understand Asa, because Asa wastes her life agonizing over trivial shit that doesn’t

完全に同意できない。ポチタはデンジ自身よりもデンジを理解してる。だからパート2でポチタはデンジの人間性を思い出させようとし、それが奪われる時に現れる。最後に自分を食べたのもそのため。デンジより明確に見てるんだ
ventingandcrying +10
I actually agree with a lot of what you said, but …
I actually agree with a lot of what you said, but I think it’s wrong to view Pochita and Denji as two separate people

Pochita is Denji’s heart, so anytime we need to confront Denji’s feelings, I think we’re supposed to interpret Pochita’s thoughts and feelings. And vise versa, I think anytime Pochita speaks we can use those moments as a devil’s interpretation on human feelings

The same way as when Yoru does things in Asa’s body that gives us insight into Asa’s thoughts and feelings (ex. The al

言ってることは結構同意するけど、ポチタとデンジを別々の人間と見るのは違うと思う
FriendLee93 +9
Yeah I agree with what you’re saying here. I just …
Yeah I agree with what you’re saying here. I just don’t agree with the original post. I don’t think there was ever any part of Pochita that wanted Denji to suffer to the extent he did. That’s why he tries over and over to convince Denji (in his own way because he still believes in Denji’s autonomy) to stop being Chainsaw Man.

>I actually agree with a lot of what you said, but I think it’s wrong to view Pochita and Denji as two separate people

They both are and they aren’t. They’re tied to

うん、ここは同意。元の投稿には同意できないけど。ポチタにデンジをあそこまで苦しめたい部分は一切なかったと思う。だから何度もデンジを説得しようとしてる（デンジの自主性を信じてるからポチタなりの方法で）
FriendLee93 +20
You’re absolutely wrong about that. He’s trying to reconnect with his friend in that moment by approaching him on the level of the things he told him he wanted. That *is* understanding Denji. He’s just not understanding Kobeni.
そこは完全に間違ってる。あの時ポチタは、デンジが望んでたことを通じて友達と繋がろうとしてるんだ。それがデンジを理解してるってこと。コベニを理解してないだけ
Chevy_Chevron +49
Something I’ve been chewing on is Pochita’s appearance. It’s been said that more human-like devils have a generally more positive view of humans (which may still be a twisted one, a la Makima). Pochita never appears as particularly human-like. He loves Denji, for sure, but I don’t think he ever expresses a love for humans.

Something to think about.

ポチタの見た目について考えてる。人間に近い悪魔は人間に対して好意的（歪んでる場合もある、マキマみたいに）って言われてる。ポチタは特に人間っぽくない。デンジを愛してるのは確かだけど、表現してるとは…
Captain_Trululu +16
Idk, deleting AIDs and Nazis sure seems like caring if even a bit for humans…
わからん、エイズやナチスを消すのは人間を少しは気にかけてるように見えるけど…
FriendLee93 +12
Even those, though, you can frame as a negative……
Even those, though, you can frame as a negative…which is insane to say as a descendent of Holocaust survivors lol. The idea of “temporal censorship” basically ties back to the recurring theme of happiness not having meaning without bad things to provide relativity to the good.

That’s why Denji is doomed by the narrative simply by Pochita’s existence. The ability to rewrite reality is a power that the world shouldn’t have access to, and Pochita’s mere existence means that Denji would always b

でもそれもネガティブに解釈できる…ホロコースト生存者の子孫として言うのも狂ってるけどw。「時間的な検閲」の概念は、善に対する相対性として悪がないと幸せに意味がないって繰り返されるテーマに繋がる
badpiggy490 +2
It’s basically this

There would always be someone who wants to come after Denji for being Chainsawman, and Denji would be fine with it because it would be a great reason for him to become Chainsawman and forget about all of his other problems

つまりこういうこと
Chevy_Chevron +5
We lack context for those events, though. For all we know; the Nuke Devil was beating the snot out of the Nazi Devil for whatever reason, the Nazi Devil called for help, then Chainsaw Man showed up and killed both of them as he is wont to do.
でもあのイベントの文脈がわかってない。もしかしたら核悪魔がナチス悪魔をボコってて、ナチス悪魔が助けを求めたら、チェンソーマンが現れて両方殺しただけかも。彼がよくやるように
FriendLee93 +3
Nah that’s still not the same thing. Firstly becau…
Nah that’s still not the same thing. Firstly because the implication at the end of Part 1 is that Pochita’s “killing those who call for help” was just him trying to hug them while being “too strong”

Killing them is also not the same as eating them. We’ve seen repeated examples of how he straight up refuses to erase certain things, and everything Makima lists off is something inherently harmful to humanity.

いや、それでも同じじゃない。まずパート1の終わりで示唆されてるのは、ポチタの「助けを求める者を殺す」は単に強すぎる抱擁だったってこと
Hairy-Conference-802 +21
Maybe the real devil is Fujimoto all along
もしかしたら本当の悪魔は藤本タツキなのかも
Initial_Environment6 +5
The author devil
作者悪魔
juasjuasie +12
I hate we dehumanize devils, I hate we dehumanize devils, I hate we dehumanize devils, I hate we dehumanize devils, I hate we dehumanize devils, I hate we dehumanize devils, I hate we dehumanize devils, I hate we dehumanize devils, I hate we dehumanize devils, I hate we dehumanize devils, I hate we dehumanize devils.
悪魔を非人間化するのやめろ、悪魔を非人間化するのやめろ、悪魔を非人間化するのやめろ、悪魔を非人間化するのやめろ、悪魔を非人間化するのやめろ、悪魔を非人間化するのやめろ、悪魔を非人間化するのやめろ、悪魔を非人間化するのやめろ、悪魔を非人間化するのやめろ、悪魔を非人間化するのやめろ、悪魔を…
Fayraz8729 +33
Bro have you been reading the shit in Braille? Devils definitely aren’t human they’re a parasitic species that feeds of human fear from another dimension.

The number of “good” devils can be counted on 1 hand and initially they had to coerced with violence. Devils are leeches of the human psyche

ニキ、点字で読んでたのか？悪魔は明らかに人間じゃない。別次元から来て人間の恐怖を糧にする寄生種だよ
FriendLee93 +37
You missed the entire point of the series, holy sh…
You missed the entire point of the series, holy shit. It’s nurture, not nature that defines a Devil. Power became “domesticated” and a genuinely loving friend willing to sacrifice herself for her buddy. Nayuta abandoned her Control Devil nature after acquiring the family she always dreamt of.

Devils are *not* inherently evil, just like humans aren’t inherently good. Everything in this series exists in shades of gray.

マジで作品のテーマ完全に見逃してる。悪魔を定義するのは生まれじゃなく育ちだ。パワーは「飼い慣らされ」、本当に献身的な友達になった。ナユタは夢見た家族を得て支配悪魔の本性を捨てた
Captain_Trululu +10
Yeah, Angel, Chicken, Fire and Quanxi girlfriends are also examples of Devils able to bond with humans.
うん、エンジェル、チキン、火、クァンシーの彼女たちも人間と絆を結べる悪魔の例だね
RX-HER0 +6
Even Fire Devil started to conspire to save humanity after being saved by the two devils.

Edit: mb I meant brothers

火の悪魔でさえ、あの2人の悪魔（編集：ごめん兄弟だ）に救われた後は人類を救おうと画策し始めた
UnbiasedGod +10
No.
違う。
lluck1 +8
FULLY AGREE like goddam

We also have the ongoing…
FULLY AGREE like goddam

We also have the ongoing theme in part 1 of Denji feeling more like a devil than a human (he gets reassured when he cries with Makima in the cinema, before learning that she’s a devil).

Most readers take Pochita to be the voice of truth in the manga, the one with the answers, but I think that’s a shallow reading.

Yes, Pochita loves Denji and ate itself as a gift to Denji… and yes, Pochita is a devil who can’t truly be trusted to understand humans and human growth.

完全同意、マジで
ventingandcrying +5
I said it in another comment a while back, but Par…
I said it in another comment a while back, but Part 1 ended with the Control devil explicitly saying she will remove all “bad things” from her perfect world, so Chainsaw Man, the epitome of chaos but also autonomy in a world ruled by fears, kills the control devil. To me that’s a pretty explicit message on the nature of control, choice, and the nature of suffering being a natural part of life

In contrast, Part 2 has multiple character moments where it feels like you gotta read between the lines

前に別のコメントで言ったけど、パート1は支配悪魔が完璧な世界から「悪いもの」を全て取り除くって明言して終わる。だから恐怖に支配された世界で混沌と自律の象徴であるチェンソーマンが支配悪魔を殺す。俺にはかなり明確なメッセージに思える
Initial_Environment6 +4
Pochita may not understand humanity but he understand Denji after he became his heart.

How was it again? “You could lie to yourself but you can’t lie to your heat”.

Denji became delusion and compromised in the manga but Pochita as his heart understand what Denji desired the most. Because, duh he was his heart.

ポチタは人類は理解できんかもやけど、デンジの心臓になった後はデンジのことは分かっとるんや。
badpiggy490 +1
I agree about your consensus on the manga, but I disagree about Pochita

It’s not that he’s the voice of truth. It’s just that he’s the only one who really listened to Denji. He may not understand humans as a whole, but he understands Denji. That’s exactly why he pops up throughout P2 asking Denji what he really wants.

漫画についての意見には同意やけど、ポチタについてはちゃうな。
navagrw +3
Man I miss Pochita
ポチタ、マジで恋しいわ…
tesseracts +2
Pochita does cause Denji to suffer, but I don’t see why you think he enjoys watching Denji suffer. He is relatively neutral until the last chapter, he wants to grant any of Denji’s desires without judgement or question. He cares for Denji and wants him to be happy, which is why he wants to be hugged, something he does in both the first and last chapter.
ポチタは確かにデンジを苦しめる原因になってるけど、デンジが苦しむのを楽しんでるとは思えん。最終章までは比較的中立的で、デンジの望みを無条件に叶えようとしとる。デンジのことを気にかけて幸せになってほしいから、ハグしてほしいんや
ventingandcrying +1
Remember the scene in the Reze movie where Aki ask…
Remember the scene in the Reze movie where Aki asks the Angel devil to end a dying devil hunter’s life so he won’t have to suffer? Angel’s response is something like “I may be an Angel but I’m still a devil, I enjoy seeing humans suffer.” Either Power or Makima said something similar where they said that hating humans is inherent to a devil’s nature

If even Angel, who clearly doesn’t like killing people, would still want to watch a human suffer, then I think it’s reasonable to assume that Pochi

レゼ映画のあのシーン覚えてる？アキが天使の悪魔に、瀕死のデビルハンターの苦痛を終わらせてくれと頼むところ。天使の返事は「天使やけど悪魔やからな、人間が苦しむのを見るのは好きや」みたいな感じやった。パワーかマキマも似たようなこと言うとったな
tesseracts +1
I remember that scene, but I’m not sure I believe …
I remember that scene, but I’m not sure I believe him. Angel’s actions don’t indicate he wants people to suffer or enjoys seeing it. Angel formed strong connections with humans before Makima ruined it for him, and he might be trying to be callous to distance himself from that pain. He mostly seems depressed like he doesn’t want to do anything and also doesn’t want to live.

Pochita definitely seems ominous and sinister in some scenes. Most notably the scene when he asked Denji what his “next dr

あのシーンは覚えてるけど、あのセリフは本当かどうか怪しいわ。天使の行動を見る限り、人間の苦しみを望んだり楽しんだりしてるようには見えん。マキマに台無しにされる前は人間と強い絆を築いとったし、その痛みから距離を置くために無情を装っとるだけかも。基本的には
Initial_Environment6 +1
Devil may not understand Human. But that’s why Pochita tried and ended up became Denji heart to understand. As Denji heart, he may still not understand other humans but he 100% understand Denji.

‘You can lie to yourself but you can’t lie to your heart”

悪魔は人間を理解できんかもしれん。でもポチタはデンジを理解しようとして、結局デンジの心臓になったんや。デンジの心臓として、他の人間は分からんかもしれんけど、デンジのことは100%理解しとる。
ArmoredAngel444 +1
Wrong
違うわ
ghosthorse48 +1
Muy buen argumento!! Si tan solo hubiera sido escrito en el manga!
めっちゃ良い考察やんけ！！漫画でそう描かれてたらなあ！！
FriendLee93 +22
I don’t think it’s entirely fair to say Denji brought it on himself. It wasn’t that simple. Denji was trapped simply by nature of Pochita existing. That’s why he erases himself in the end. He’s giving his buddy a true opportunity at freedom for the first time.
デンジが自業自得って言うのはちょっと違う気がする。そんな単純な話やない。デンジはポチタが存在するが故に、ただ囚われとったんや。そやからポチタは最後に自分を消すんや。初めて相棒に本当の自由を与えようとしてるんや
Topool45 +4
Reddit投稿画像
It does matter. It’s a discussion. Still think it’s wrong tho.
Efficient_Meat2286 +1
I know, it’s a thought-ending cliche.

I just say it as a coping mechanism.

分かっとるわ、思考停止させる決まり文句やねん。
ポチタの本質は悪魔なのか、それともデンジを最も理解する存在なのか、読者を二分する深い議論が交わされていた。