Unique_Suit3789
+870
スレ主投稿画像
Because he technically didn’t. That asa and denji are GONE. Yes they influence the new ones. But it is just that. A new denji and asa.

I really doubt pochita meant here to litterally create a new world but I guess he did? Just makes this whole point feel much less meaningful when its not “lets create a world for ourselves here where we can be happy”, and instead “lets just literally make a new world so we can scrap this old one”

だって厳密には違うんだよ。あのアサとデンジはもういないんだ。確かに彼らは新しい二人に影響は与えてる。でもそれだけ。新しいデンジとアサなんだ。

ポチタが文字通り新しい世界を作るつもりだったとは正直思わないけど、結局そうなっちゃったのか？「ここで俺たちが幸せになれる世界を作ろう」じゃなくて「古い世界は捨てて、文字通り新しい世界を作っちゃおう」ってなると、この展開の意味がすごく薄れるんだよね。

lactatingRHINO7 +627
I think the issue is that you are looking at the e…
I think the issue is that you are looking at the ending literally, not poetically. Its true that the characters’ memories did not carry over but its clear that the emotions did.

Pochita obviously made a new world for them in a literal sense but Denji invited Asa to a new world too when he caught her from falling. She now gets to live in a world where she is not a prisoner to feelings of guilt, exacerbated by Yoru’s desire for powerful weapons.

問題はお前が結末を文字通りに捉えてて、詩的に見れてないんだわ。記憶は引き継がれてないけど、感情は明らかに引き継がれてるんだよ。ポチタが文字通り新世界を作ったけど、デンジもアーサを新世界に誘ったんだ
FriendLee93 +296
I think the ending shows us that the memories carry over in a vague sense as well. That’s why Denji’s heart skips a beat when Asa calls him Chainsaw Man. It’s why Power likes dogs now, and why Meowy remembers Nayuta
結末は記憶も曖昧に引き継がれてることを示してると思う。だからアーサにチェンソーマンって呼ばれた時、デンジの心がときめくんだ。パワーが今犬好きな理由も、ミャーがナユタを覚えてる理由もそれ
XxgamerxX734 +114
Very Donnie darko with the whole “reset” and lingering changes
完全に「リセット」なのに変化が残ってる感じ、めっちゃドニー・ダーコやん
ViLe_Rob +36
Id wager a bet Fujimoto has seen it, too.
藤本も観たことあるやろな、多分
FriendLee93 +32
Yeah I made [a whole post](https://www.reddit.com/r/ChainsawMan/comments/1s4uynd/chainsaw_man_donnie_darko_making_sense_of_the/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) about this
うん、俺[めっちゃ長い投稿](https://www.reddit.com/r/ChainsawMan/comments/1s4uynd/chainsaw_man_donnie_darko_making_sense_of_the/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)でこれについて書いたわ
pissed_off_machinist +9
I made a whole ass thread and meme saying this would end like Donnie Darko, I’m very surprised it didn’t. It would have been a lot better too than Nayuta is back for-some-reason
これドニー・ダーコみたいな終わり方するってスレとミームでガチで言ってたんだけど、ならなくて超ビックリ。ナユタが謎理由で戻ってくるよりずっと良かったのに
lactatingRHINO7 +39
I think Fujimoto left it open for interpretation but yeah definitely those pieces are there so you could make the argument.
藤本は解釈を開放したと思うけど、確かにそう主張できる要素はあるわな
[deleted] +14
What’s that line from Spirited Away? ?The past stays with you, even if you don’t remember it” or something like that?
千と千尋のあの台詞なんやっけ？「過去は覚えてなくても心に残る」みたいな？
Nova-Redux +10
“Once you’ve met someone, you never really forget them. It just takes a while for your memories to return.”
「一度出会った人は、本当に忘れることはない。思い出すのに時間がかかるだけ」
JediSabine +39
I can’t help but feel like it was a cheap way to get there. But Idk, I’m still pondering it
ちょっと安っぽい方法だった気がしてならん。でもわからん、まだ考え中や
lactatingRHINO7 +47
Maybe so, I am generally into where the story ends up but I think getting here was rushed. People often form knee-jerk reactions so I’m trying to give it some time to think about it too.
そうかも。結末自体は好きやけど、そこに至る過程が急ぎすぎやった。みんなすぐ反応しがちやから、俺も少し時間かけて考えてみるわ
Wizardrylullaby +14
It’s a pity because the ending does a lot of good stuff, and that gets often lost in all of the discussion. I don’t mean to say “the ending is achtually great”, but there is a lot there to talk about
結末は良いとこいっぱいあるのに、議論で埋もれちゃうの残念。「結末は実は最高」って言うつもりはないけど、語るべき要素はたくさんある
Substantial_Pick6897 +34
My main issue with the ending is that Denji had no part in it. Pochita just decided everything for him.
結末で一番気に入らんのは、デンジが何も関与してないとこ。全部ポチタが決めちゃった
badpiggy490 +29
That’s kind of the point

Denji himself was never going to make this decision. Even in the second last chapter we saw that he was never going to part with Pochita

So who better to give him another chance than the only character in this series who actually understood him

それがポイントやん
lactatingRHINO7 +8
I agree with you. Denji would not tell Pochita to …
I agree with you. Denji would not tell Pochita to sacrifice himself. Pochita has been with Denji the whole journey though and has seen him chase his dreams. I think it makes perfect sense that by the end he’s now seen how Denji has been burdened by the expectation of being Chainsaw Man, given choices and ultimatums he was never equipped to handle, to the point that the world has become fucked beyond repair. On top of that Pochita locked Denji into a never-ending cycle of chasing the carrot on th
同意。デンジがポチタに犠牲になれって言うわけない。でもポチタは旅の最初からずっと一緒で、デンジが夢追うの見てきた。最後にはチェンソーマンであることの重圧にデンジが苦しんでるのも理解して、選択肢を与えたってのはめっちゃ納得
ViLe_Rob +12
You can go back to a lot of A B choices Denji has been presented with and he consistently makes up and chooses a C option. At a certain point Pochita had to make a decision for him to stop his self sabotaging.
今までのAかBかの選択肢でも、デンジはいつもCを作り出して選んできた。ある時点でポチタが彼の自滅を止めるために決断する必要があったんや
UnbiasedGod +2
Chainsawman is like a drug and not all people with addictions can stop taking them on their own.

Sometimes force is required to help them get better.

チェンソーマンはドラッグや。依存症の人が自力でやめられるとは限らんのと一緒や
[deleted] +3
This is a huge part of why I like it, tbh. I have …
This is a huge part of why I like it, tbh. I have a lot of anxiety about the planet and the environment being hospitable for the next couple decades. I can’t alleviate that anxiety with therapy. I can’t alleviate that anxiety by Luigi-ing the ceo of exxon or whatever. I can’t nonviolent protest my way into a society that only used renewable energy. I ride a bike, take the bus, recycle and compost, I do what I can but that climate anxiety always remains. There is no solution. I just have to live
これが好きな理由の大半やで、マジで。今後数十年の地球と環境が住めるかどうか不安で仕方ないんや。セラピーでもこの不安は消えへん。エクソンのCEOぶっ飛ばしても消えへん。非暴力抗議でも…
cataraxis +2
There are things that you can do at the local level with the most immediate visible effects. That’s what you focus on instead of just building resentment over your lack of control. The problem of Chainsawman is the want, the hole that will make you complete but never does. You can either live with the want of a better world, or deal with it as it arrives.
身近で目に見える効果があることからやるんや。コントロールできないことへの不満ばかり溜めるんじゃなくて、そこに集中する。チェンソーマンの問題は「欲」、満たされることのない穴なんや。それと共存するか…
rdwd4evr +4
Yeah, tell me how did poetry explained what happened to Yoru?
よーし、じゃあ詩的解釈でヨルに何が起こったか説明してみ？
FriendLee93 +4
What happened to Yoru? Chainsaw Man was erased, so…
What happened to Yoru? Chainsaw Man was erased, so she never fought him and never got herself partially eaten, so she had no reason to go on a psychotic revenge quest.

If you mean in a narrative sense, Yoru is the opposite of Pochita. They’re both devils who formed bonds with a human in order to save that human from death, and subsequently had that humanity affect them in turn. We see all through Part 2 that Yoru is changed by Asa, even if she doesn’t actually make the efforts to understand her

ヨルはどうなったの？チェンソーマンが消されたから、彼女は戦うことも食べられることもなく、復讐に燃える理由もなかったよね。
VitinNunes +216
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Yeah he did
マジでやったな
[deleted] +56
He didn’t though. Pochita did. Nothing was his choice or doing
違うわ。ポチタがやったんだ。デンジの意思や行動じゃない
andrewthedude101 +30
Exactly
それな
Only_Piece_6828 +7
“Let’s” implies both of them
「しよう」って二人とも含む言い方だし
[deleted] +6
But Denji didn’t do anything lol. In fact he didn’t want Pochita to erase himself and create a “new world”. It was his original idea sure but he did nothing to actually accomplish that
でもデンジは何もしてないw。むしろポチタに消されて「新世界」作られるの嫌がってた。元々のアイデアは彼のでも、実行したのは別人だし
[deleted] +72
Can’t believe I forgot about this moment. This improves the ending a lot for me
このシーン忘れてたわ。これでエンディングかなり良くなった
WeirdAgile +55
There are a lot of things that build up towards this end, right from the introduction of Denji in Part 2.

Honestly, Part 2 has felt aimless to me for the last three years, but, even if the end was kind of a disappointment, after giving it a bit of thought, it did improve part 2 as a whole for me, because I think I understand the story Fujimoto wanted to tell now.

この結末への伏線はパート2のデンジ登場時からたくさんあるよ。
zenithBemusement +13
Inb4 some jjk fan comes out of the woodwork to say that you’re coping and trying to polish a turd
JJKファンが「負け惜しみでクソを磨いてる」って言い出しそう
WeirdAgile +23
Honestly: rereading the end of part one again, I realised, that all of this was set up from the moment Denji reacted to Aki and Power’s desth by wanting ‘tons of sex’ and being happy, that people love chainsaw man, because Makima had erased every bit of self value he ever had by blaming him for those and his fathers death.
正直：パート1終盤を読み直して気付いたけど、デンジがアキとパワーの死に「いっぱいエッチしたい」って喜んで反応した時点で全て決まってた。マキマに自己価値観を全部消されて、チェンソーマンが愛されてることでしか幸せを感じられなくなってたから。
[deleted] +12
Compared to part 1, I felt like the aimlessness th…
Compared to part 1, I felt like the aimlessness thing is generally overstated by the community at large. I think a lot of that is me reading serially since chapter 1 compared to people who came in later and read part 1 all at once, and another part of it is the existence of the stated goal “kill the gun devil” implies aim, even if as a serial reader “kill the gun devil” is as nebulous a concept as “find the one piece.” (I accept that this is an off-kilter opinion deserving of pushback). Moments
パート1に比べ、散漫って意見は過大評価だと思う。連載初期から読んでる俺と、後から一気読みした人では感じ方違うし、「◯◯を殺す」って明確な目標があったのもある。
WeirdAgile +6
Yeah, honestly, after reading (and digesting) the …
Yeah, honestly, after reading (and digesting) the end, part 2 seems so much more coherent to me and a lot of the stuff I thought was aimless just serve to push Denji towards this end now. As I mentioned aboth, looking back, ever since Denji’s introduction of him wearing a CSM-T-shirt like a dork while trying to brag in an interview trying to get girls numbers this way, the direction was pretty clear.
そうね、結末を読んで消化したら、パート2はかなり一貫性あると感じた。散漫に見えた部分も、デンジをこの結末に導くためのものだった。振り返れば、ダサいチェンソーマンTシャツ着てるデンジの登場時から…
MetalliicMango +9
“Binge part 2” believers winning
パート2一気読み派の勝利だな
[deleted] +4
I haven’t re-read part 2 at all yeah. I re-read the first half of part 1 before the Reze movie but other than i’ve only experienced the manga serially. I wanna spend a couple more weeks processing and then it’s surely time for a re-read.
パート2はまだ再読してない。レゼ映画前にパート1前半は読み直したけど、基本は連載で追ってる。数週間考えてから再読するわ。
flightofangels +36
Denji did not do this. He fucking sucks. He did not murderize Yoru, he tried to have sex with her instead, and then fought in a stupid matter that got him basically killed, and Pochita took the wheel. Denji did the exact opposite of this crap. Pochita bailed him out.
デンジはやってない。クソだわ。ヨルを殺さずエッチしようとしたし、戦い方も下手で死にかけて、ポチタが助けた。デンジは真逆のことしてた。
Kego_Nova +24
My biggest issue is that, no, Denji didn’t

It was Pochita who did

Which DEFEATS THE FUCKING POINT OF THAT EXTREMELY IMPORTANT CHARACTER DYNAMIC

最大の問題は、デンジがやってないこと。
FriendLee93 +25
I don’t see it as the prior Denji and Asa being “g…
I don’t see it as the prior Denji and Asa being “gone.” They’re overwritten, yeah, but the experiences they had throughout Part 2 carry over spiritually, as do the lessons they learned. I understand that not being satisfying to some people, but I personally find a lot of satisfaction in two broken teens who defined themselves by their devil halves now getting the opportunity to live as humans.

Pochita and Denji were essentially in a double-bind with the apocalypse. Denji was willing to keep fi

以前のデンジとアサが「消えた」とは思わない。上書きされたけど、パート2での経験や学びは精神的に引き継がれてる。納得いかない人もいるだろうけど、傷ついた二人が…
WeirdAgile +13
Wssn’t her plan to keep the apocalypse from happening by being eaten by Pochita? Ironically this is what caused the apocalypse, which seems like a classical ‘misunderstanding the propgecy’ trope.
彼女の計画って、ポチタに食べられることで黙示録を防ぐことじゃなかった？皮肉にもこれが黙示録を引き起こしたって、典型的な「予言の誤解」パターンだね。
FriendLee93 +9
My read on it, which is only barely supported by the text, is that she basically 5D chess’d Pochita into eating himself after the prophecy seemed insistent on coming to pass

Remember, Lil D is the first one to bring up the idea of separating Denji and Pochita all the way back in the Falling Arc

俺の解釈（根拠は少ないけど）だと、彼女は5次元チェスでポチタに自食させたんだ。予言が実現しそうだったから。
WeirdAgile +3
Seems possible as well. Death trying to bring Pochita (and Denji) to a point, where eating himself was the only way out. But everything about her pkan still seems messy. As much as I am starting to appreachiate part 2 and it‘s end, I still have a lot of trouble with this plotline.
それもありそう。デスはポチタ（とデンジ）を、自食しか道がない状況に追い込もうとしてた。でも彼女の計画はまだごちゃっとしてる。パート2と結末の良さは分かってきても、このプロットラインにはまだ疑問が残る。
RealApersonn +6
What does “carry over spiritually” even mean? The …
What does “carry over spiritually” even mean? The ending is essentially a window into an alternate universe where Pochita never existed, so yes, neither Denji nor Asa are corrupted by their devils here. But there’s no development. The old Denji and Asa never found relief from their struggles, they were erased and replaced with a Denji and Asa who never struggled with the same issues.

Denji’s development from Part 1, learning to willingly break free from Makima’s control despite his infatuation,

「精神的に引き継ぐ」って結局何？エンディングはポチタが存在しなかったパラレルワールドの窓みたいなもんでしょ。だから確かにここのデンジもアサも悪魔に侵されてない。でも成長はゼロ。過去のデンジとアサは苦しみから解放されず、消されて、同じ問題で悩まなかった別の二人に置き換えられただけ。
FriendLee93 +5
Would it be easier to understand if I said “their …
Would it be easier to understand if I said “their souls remember even if their minds dont?”

> The old Denji and Asa never found relief from their struggles, they were erased and replaced with a Denji and Asa who never struggled with the same issues.

We just have completely different understandings of how this works. Denji dropping the chainsaw to grab Asa is about as explicit a showcase of his growth as any. He saves her, not through violence, but through a simple act of kindness, and she t

「心は覚えてなくても魂は覚えてる」って言ったら分かりやすい？
Mrgrayj_121 +12
Yes but no?
そうだけど、違う？
Inner-Bicycle4131 +11
Neither of them ever got the chance to work though that trauma.🥲
二人ともそのトラウマと向き合う機会すらなかったんだよね。🥲
wks_526 +7
This moment was the best in the series and then became utterly pointless because of the ending, seeing this panel now feels like getting punched in the gut
このシーンはシリーズ最高だったのに、エンディングで完全に無意味になった。今このコマ見ると腹にパンチ喰らった気分
Greedy_Average_2532 +7
Reddit投稿画像
Not really. No way they can have a normal life considering they’re just back to square one and the Devils still exist to fuck everyone up.

If anything, they’re worse now that they don’t possess any powers. Even worse for Denji now that he’s yet another mortal cannon fodder for Public Safety.

If they get in the presence of a Devil with a fearsome concept such as Gu

いや、違うでしょ。振り出しに戻っただけで、悪魔は相変わらずみんなをボコしに来るんだから普通の生活なんて無理。
Ayy-lmao213 +2
Didn’t it already come to pass when the Bug Devils became super strong as the bugs started eating everything
虫が何でも食い始めてバグデビルが超強くなった時点でもう起きてたんじゃ？
Greedy_Average_2532 +2
Reddit投稿画像
If 9/11 happens and I go back in time a month or s…
If 9/11 happens and I go back in time a month or so before the attack, do you think the twin towers won’t blow this time?

**IF** Pochita’s asspull power somehow altered this new timeline’s prophecy (The same way he brought back Nayuta from the dead instead of Makima for some reason, or the same way he placed Power conveniently around the Yakuza zombies), then one would believe that they’ll be safe from it.

If not, well… The clock is ticking.

もし9/11が起きて、俺が襲撃の1ヶ月くらい前にタイムスリップしたら、今度はツインタワー爆発しないと思う？
PotatoPotluck +5
You have to remember, Denji’s logic of “creating o…
You have to remember, Denji’s logic of “creating our own world”, doesn’t apply to Denji alone.

Yoru’s world was one of endless war without death. Denji was basically trying to usurp Yoru’s world to create his own. But this ended up in him committing even more to being “Chainsaw Man”, and eating devils left and right. When she finally gives up, just like how Denji destroyed Yoru’s world, another devil destroyed Denji’s.

No idea is immortal or invincible. They will always be supplanted by anoth

忘れないで、デンジの「自分たちの世界を作る」って論理はデンジだけの話じゃない。
OldAssHoodie +4
I mean would a normal life include the many and va…
I mean would a normal life include the many and varied horrors and traumas from the previous life? Denji has been shown to be deeply traumatized since pt 1 and Asa would be the same after having the war devil use her body to commit countless unspeakable acts.

They got a do-over. It’s been broadcasted multiple times through pt 2 that Denji wanted to go back to his old life and how he missed his friends. Pochita is not a miracle worker and he did the only thing he knew how to do. Unless you all

普通の生活に、前世の多種多様なホラーとトラウマは含まれるの？デンジは第1部から深く傷ついてるし、アサも戦争の悪魔に体を使われて数えきれない蛮行をさせられて同じだろ。
unhingedokkaner +3
I mean she IS there.
いや、彼女は確かにそこにいるよ。
TheGreaterTool +3
Yes. The ending enjoyers followed the clues
そう。エンディングを楽しんだ人たちは手がかりを追ってた。
MrPoraigon +2
Prob all that happen in the last chapter was meant to be a ultra hard and perfect throwback to this scene

But Fuji and Moto maded they choice and ended it way sooner and didn’t had the time to relate one thing with the other

多分最終話のあの展開は、このシーンへの超ハードで完璧なオマージュになるはずだった。
KobeJuanKenobi9 +2
Yes. Pochita gave them the opportunity to live the lives they always should have had. Chainsaw Man has been a fairly small chapter in both of their respective lives. Pochita created a new world where they can both develop in the directions they should have prior to their respective introductions to the story
そう。ポチタは二人に、本来あるべき人生を送る機会を与えた。チェンソーマンは二人の人生の中でかなり短い一章だった。ポチタは、それぞれが悪魔と出会う前に進むべき方向に成長できる新しい世界を作った。
MakimaGOAT +2
yea he did. well pochita did it for him
うん、彼がやった。いや、ポチタが彼のためにやった。
Womboloto +1
Well pochita was reinvented in the now infamous page and since yoru regained her memories upon devils reinvention i would expect denji to remember as well.
ポチタはあの悪名高いページで再創造されたし、悪魔が再創造されるときにヨルが記憶を取り戻したんだから、デンジも覚えてるはず。
Sirschmoopy545 +1
I don’t think that, that Asa and Denji are gone. I…
I don’t think that, that Asa and Denji are gone. I think we definitely see some implied influence of the previous events affecting the new events and characters. Specifically Nayuta existing as she did, meowy still having the bond with her. Powers quick take to have Denji form the contract which is unlike what we have seen from her before she had the original bond with Denji. Even the implied Pochita in Denjis heart. Going for a chainsaw as a weapon I would even argue is that influence from the
あのアサとデンジが消えたとは思わない。以前の出来事が新しい出来事やキャラに影響を与えてる暗示は確実にある。具体的にはナユタがあの状態で存在してること、ミャーオが彼女と絆を保ってること。デンジが契約を結ぶためにパワーズがすぐに動いたこと…
ArmoredAngel444 +1
They did create a new world to be happy… this sub rn man..
彼らは幸せになるために新しい世界を作ったんだ…このサブ今マジで…
Lolik95 +1
no
違う
記憶は消えても、魂に刻まれた感情と成長は確かに受け継がれている、という詩的な解釈が多くの支持を集めている印象だ。