『チェンソーマン』第2部が最終回を迎え、海外ファンの間で賛否両論の大議論が発生。投稿者は「終盤の展開は急ぎすぎだが、ラストそのものは物語のテーマに合致している」と主張。デンジとアサの「正しい選択」を模索する旅路と、ポチタの自己犠牲に込められた意味を詳細に分析し、「全体としては傑作」と結論づけています。その考察と、それに寄せられた賛同・反論の声をご覧ください。
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スレ主
Csm part 2 is like a 6.5-7/10…
I think up until the church arc its above part 1 in a lot of aspects
However its clear a lot of character development and plot lines were dropped at that point which lead to a messy last 3rd and fast ending
The ending I believe was planned to always be how the series ends and I think it makes sense in the overall story and I don’t hate it nearly as much as most of reddit seems to hate it
The themes (and such) of part 2 is denji keeps making the wrong choice keeps wanting to be csm despite it hurting people he cares about. From his first part 2 appearance it is set up. Denji is trying to live less selfishly while Asa is trying to live more selfishly. Denji choosing to save a cat over people, Denji seeing Asa become a hero after the aquarium arc, Denji seeing his home burnt down, Denji losing Nayuta (which was a result of him wanting to be chainsawman), etc etc all leads up to him essentially failing and falling into a trap that is “being Chainsawman”.
Asa on the other hand is trying to come to terms with living life more fully despite always seeming to fail at a crucial moment. The affect that her trauma of her mom killing her dad, her mom dying to a devil because she wanted to save a cat, that cat she saved being killed by her caretaker afterwards, etc etc is the main cause. She tries to hide it but deep down she wants to be included, but every time she comes to that realisation herself she falls and it causes her to retreat back into her shell. She realizes right before she dies that she could have lived a more fulfilling life only for Yoru to take over it. She gets to experience some things she wanted to like freindship, dating, even being a “hero” but the cost of that is Yoru putting her life at risk to achieve the goal of trying to kill chainsawman, someone who she becomes infatuated with. It kills her chances of leading the life she wanted but she still tries to sympathize with Yoru, she still hopes that after she completes Yoru’s contract she can try to live again, and she still tries to save Denji from Yoru despite it putting her at even more risk to herself. Yoru’s last words to her directly are “The things you think are sins are nothing in a devil’s eyes” essentially saying to her that what was holding her back before Yoru took over in the bigger picture was nothing she couldnt overcome herself. When Asa gets her second chance in the new world, Denji (as Denji and not Chainsawman) is able to save Asa from tripping and killing bucky. She gets to have the realization with a full life ahead of her and not as a weapon.
Both these characters are “trying” to make the right choice, they are “trying” to do the right thing, but the circumstances of being Chainsawman or existing with Yoru make it impossible. Even Denji trying to save Asa/defeat Yoru in the end doesnt work because he doesnt do it as “Denji” he does it as “Chainsawman”.
Pochita was okay with denji living his dream until it lead to the end of the world and only then did he interfere. He truly wants Denji to keep dreaming and keep living and even though he knew for a while being CSM for Denji was hurting him he never stopped him from living his dream till there was no other option left. Pochita did not choose for Denji, Pochita sacrificed himself so Denji could keep trying to be better which I think is a massive distinction that a lot of people are overlooking. And not only lets him “keep dreaming” at the cost of his own existence (which he doesnt know the outcome of eating himself btw he is deleting himself for a CHANCE for Denji to try again) but also lets him try without having the pressure of being “Chainsawman” and letting him just be Denji.
The ending also doesnt mean that the entire manga “doesnt matter” both in the context of the story or in terms of enjoyment. As the reader, part of enjoying the series is the journy not just were it ends up. What you feel reading is important even if its rage or disappointment (although I didnt feel either personally). In terms of a literary sense, its clear that the world reset carried over some aspects of the original world/timeline. It is implied that characters still feel similar ways about characters they originally did (Like how meowy is fond of Nayuta even tho they havent met in this timeline for more than a few days). It also leaves it open ended for a lot of characters to have a better life. I understand how you could hate this but I really am of the opinion in terms of endings it isn’t remotely bad just sadly rushed.
The biggest fumble imo is Asa’s ending but I can look past that and accept that the series fumbled the bag on some aspects. Asa and Yoru were very interesting and while looking back they did get a conclusion to their character stories you barely got to sit on it before the series ended (especially Yoru).
Did some shit get dropped, yes. Was the ending rushed, yes. Is it the worst ending oat and ruins part 1, fuck no.
Csm still overall a 8/10 if we talkin about the whole series (Part 1 is a 9/10 and Part 2 is like a 6.5ish/10 IMO), the anime is also peak, the fan art is peak, the music made for the anime is peak, fuck it has peak as fuck art style and is really like nothing else I have ever read and I have read a lot of manga. Nothing could make me think its even in the same tier as “bad” even with its flaws.
I think a lot of problems with modern Manga discussion is self fulfilling prophecy in this age of slander and agenda. Nothing is able to be view with any nuance or middle ground or analyzed deeper than glazing or hating, agenda pushing or slandering. JJK and JJK Modulo ended and I thought both endings were fine, yet when they dropped people were acting like it was the worst ending OAT. Same happened for Naruto, same happened for AoT (which I am not even a fan of but I dont think it ended poorly at all), and I fear online it will happen with every upcoming Manga. Like yall havent read fuckin Shaman King you dont know what a bad day is lol
Thank you… Chainsawman
教会編まではむしろ第1部を超えてると思うんだよね
でもあの辺でキャラ成長や伏線がガッツリ削られちゃったから、ラスト1/3がごちゃついて急展開で終わっちゃった感はある
結末自体は最初から決まってたんだろうし、全体の流れ的には納得できる。Redditで炎上してるほど俺は嫌いじゃないわ
第2部のテーマは「デンジが周りを傷つけてもチェンソーマンでありたいって間違った選択を繰り返すこと」だと思う。第2部初登場時からそう設定されてて、デンジは「利己的じゃない生き方」を、アサは「利己的な生き方」を目指してる。デンジが人間より猫を選んだこと、水族館編後にヒーローになったアサを見たこと、家を燃やされたこと、ナユタを失ったこと(これ全部チェンソーマンになりたいせいだよね)…全部繋がって「チェンソーマンであること」という罠にハマって失敗する流れになってる
一方アサは「肝心な瞬間でいつも失敗するけど、もっと充実した人生を送りたい」って葛藤してる。トラウマの根源は、母親が父親を殺したこと、猫を助けようとして母親がデビルに殺されたこと、その救った猫がその後世話係に殺されたこと…。表面上は隠してるけど心底では人と関わりたいって願ってる。でも自分でそれに気づくたびに挫折して殻に閉じこもっちゃう。死ぬ直前に「もっと充実した人生を送れたかも」って気づくんだけど、その瞬間ヨルに乗っ取られる。友情やデート、ヒーローごっこみたいな「やりたかったこと」は経験できるけど、その代償は命がけでチェンソーマン(しかも好きになっちゃう相手)を殺そうとするヨルの目的に巻き込まれること。望んでた人生は奪われるけど、それでもヨルに共感しようとしたり、契約履行後にまた生き直せるって期待したり、自分が危険にさらされてもデンジをヨルから救おうとする。ヨルが最後に言った「お前が罪だと思ってることは、デビルからしたら大したことないんだよ」って言葉は、乗っ取られる前のアサを縛ってたものは、実は自分で克服できるものだったって暗示してるよね。新世界でセカンドチャンスを得たアサを、デンジ(チェンソーマンじゃなくデンジとして)が転んでバッキーを殺しそうになる所を助けられる。アサは「武器」じゃなく「これからの人生」を前にして、ようやく気づきを得られるんだ
二人とも「正しい選択」を「しようとして」、正しいことを「しようとして」るんだけど、チェンソーマンであることやヨルと共存してる状況がそれを不可能にしてる。最後にアサを救おう(ヨルを倒そう)としたデンジですら、「デンジ」としてじゃなく「チェンソーマン」として行動しちゃったから上手くいかなかったし。
ポチタは、デンジの夢を叶えさせてあげてたんだけど、結局それが終末につながっちゃったんだよね
Pin those post up like the Curse Devil
Deus Ex Machina followed by fluffy Fanservice that ignores every prior established continuity is not a known staple of Shonen finales.
The end point is not the issue, it’s the two chapters that speedrun towards that conclusion..
CSM Part 2 is an experiment that didn’t pay off. Happens.
Meowy liking Nayuta implies she’s a different exis…
As for Asa, in the new reality, Bucky the chicken devil will be the catalyst for Asa fitting in and changing her outlook. In the first chapter of part 2, Bucky called out to Asa and she was touched that the chicken devil knows her name. She was having a genuine happy smile there before tripping. In this new timeline, she didn’t trip (thanks Dennis!) so that positive develo
> I think the abrupt nature of 231 made people…
Most of your comment is whatever, but this kind of reasoning specifically for justifying lame writing is something I hate. I understand that the ending was the way it was, but Fujimoto wrote the whole thing it’s not like this was just a natural product of systems outside o
I for sure agree ppl are dooming wayyyy harder ove…
when you get a badly written ending but it’s happy – “it’s good because look, the main character and his friends are happy”
People also hated Evangelion’s ending, and now it’s considered GOATed, and you even see where it inspired Part 2’s.
There’s actual mid manga out there, with bad endings, bad dialogue, etc. Chainsaw Man, including Part 2, ain’t one of ‘em.
“People also hated Evangelion’s ending, and now it…
Another reason is that End of evangelion came out which made a lot of “haters” just
It just feels bad that Denji destroys the world an…
It didn’t feel like Denji grew or learned any lessons. Pochita made the last two biggest choices for him, Pochita ate Death and himself. And then the ending is “keep following your dreams” or “make your own decisions”?
The cat situation wasn’t even related to chainsaw
Why would it feel bad? The way Denji got eaten was…
“If you’re gonna get in our way, then die!” had been used in alot of pop culture and seeing it fail and became a death flag because death itself no longer exists as a concept is perfect.
“Getting to fuck” is Denji’s ice breaker, he always uses it to do something else. Like
Part 2 Denji fucking hates himself ad has complete…
My only gripe is we never learned of the “Hybrids” true name. Since OG Chainsaw Man is gone, they should have been continuing to exist, again.
I personally think that Fujimoto had planned the e…
Do I like the ending? I see what he’s going for and appreciate him for commiting to his vision, so yes I like it. I think the real issue about the ending is the execution and how rushed the final arc was to reach that ending, I didn’t l
I don’t hate the ending because of the “themes and…
Why did people revive this time? Why did it turn back time? Why is Nayuta there?
Yet when pochita eats himself it recreated a whole new timeline where he never existed. So that was kinda asspully for the ending or inconsistent
Which is consistent to what “Chainsaw Man” is.
He…
He’s essentially what All Devils fear made up. He’s the boogeyman and his abilities rely on whatever the Devil thinks of their demise. So whatever asspull it is, it’s because a group of Devils believed it to be his ability. Then you have to consider all the Devils he had eaten that is on screen and off screen. There might be a Devil that was eaten that when Chainsaw Man didn’t exist would lead to this.
In any case that last Chapter isn’t just in
I agree and I have to add
The world is also fucki…
The world is also fucking peak. Both the Human World and Devil World have their own parasocial constructs, that the Chainsaw Man/ “Boogeyman” of the Devils not existing has made the Devil World alot calmer(proof is Nayuta is there instead of Makima. Which implies that Makima didn’t kill herself in the Devil World to come over to the Human World, and that Aki isn’t on the team means the Gun Devil never also died in the Devil World)
Besides it feeling “rushed” most of m
I agree but also No – it can be done right. I thin…
But it can be done right. No spoilers but Hells Paradise has a very good ending and it’s not even a long manga.
The problem is that ‘all of a sudden’ the story is over after all this drawn out conflict and it makes it feel as if that ‘conclu
It’s a great ending in concept. Just was sadly not…
Also it’s clear while pochita sacrificing himself reversed all the destruction that occurred, it didn’t reverse everything. Hence Nayuta being the way she is, rather than Makima.
So all of what Denji did raising Nayuta didn’t come to naught. I think that was supposed to be a clear point. But since the ending was rushed it’s not exactly clear.
https://www.reddit.com/r/CharacterRant/s/b5NDdOBIAO
My advice is reread part 2 now that it’s fully com…
I have some things thematically I don’t like about the ending, but I really believe Part 2 is a lot better than people give it credit for when you binge read it.
Binge reading it also makes you realize how obvious it is that Asa is a side character she gets side-lined almost immediately and its very obvious Yoru is the focus.
Very well said. I don’t think this is a bad ending…
Imho the ending isn’t bad but it kinda came out of…
For example: We know that the war devil has a vendetta against Pochita, so no pochita = no war devil looking for Asa.
No Pochita also means no Makima so Nayuta taking her place makes sense imho.
If War isn’t there, then what about the Gun Devil, the Tank Devil and Aki?
In the original timeline, Power was already a devil hunter before Denji joined. So could it be that the G
Yeah pretty much exactly how I feel after letting …
The ending itself is “narratively logical.” There isn’t anything in the ending as far as it relates to Denji’s quest for happiness that I think isn’t supported or foreshadowed by preceding chapters. How it happens I take issue with and I feel like it needed a few more chapters to arrive at 231/232’s events.
The only misstep I think that was made in the ending was not having Denji choose to have Pochita erase himself. It is the only co
> that was made in the ending was not having De…
I think the reason why pochita was the one to make this choice was because denji wouldn’t have accepted it. He would have tried to pick a *third option* again. And this is something he has done when given the option to make a choice without a sacrifice before. He refused to kill yoru aand have sex with her( he tried to pick the option where he gets to keep everything). Pochita realised how denji’s choice
I literally could’ve just used a chapter or two of…
I have problems with the ending in itself, but as it is it would hit a lot harder if it was paced and composed better. Fujimoto literally took all moment of silence out of a song, and it just doesn’t work.
I absolutely see that as a valid interpretation of the moment, it just didn’t do it for me.